Jim's postgame thoughts

[PurpleKoolaid]

Rank away. Makes alot more sense then some of the other posts, at least to me.

I sure hope we dont end up with Andy Reid or Michael Vick. I got this bad feeling in the pit of my stomach we will....

[PurpleMustReign]

Rank away. Makes alot more sense then some of the other posts, at least to me.

I sure hope we dont end up with Andy Reid or Michael Vick. I got this bad feeling in the pit of my stomach we will....

I would take Andy Reid, but no thanks on Vick.

[PurpleKoolaid]

I would take Andy Reid, but no thanks on Vick.

Reid reminds of the Childress days.

[S197]

Everything being said about Musgrave is what was said about Bevell. I could probably take an old post, switch the names, and no one would know the difference. But look at Bevell now in Seattle, he doesn't look the same as he did when he was here. I've been very critical of Musgrave as well but I'm finding it harder to believe that it's coincidence that two different OC's run the same Chiliball scheme. My eye is on Frazier, the last remanant of the Childress regime.

[mansquatch]

Everything being said about Musgrave is what was said about Bevell. I could probably take an old post, switch the names, and no one would know the difference. But look at Bevell now in Seattle, he doesn't look the same as he did when he was here. I've been very critical of Musgrave as well but I'm finding it harder to believe that it's coincidence that two different OC's run the same Chiliball scheme. My eye is on Frazier, the last remanant of the Childress regime.

I do not think we run the same chilli ball crap with Musgrave that we ran with Bevell/BC. The scheme was built around a rookie QB, a slot guy, and AP. Where I think there is a similarity is the non-aggressive conservative play calling, mundane base set defenses, and inconsistent game planning. I've long thought that Frasier got brought in because he would tow the line and run things Chilli's way. I think we are seeing some of this in his style as a Head Coach, but there are also differences.

I think if we see any coaching changes it will either be position guys or at most Musgrave getting sacked. I think that is a long shot though. Frasier inherited BC's 2010 mess, they went 6-10, 3-3 under Fraser. Then 3-13 in 2011. Now they are poised to be at least 100% better than 2011. I think that gets the coaches one more season. The next step is the one that matters. Can they go from a 6-8 win club to a 9-10 win, playoff club?

People are impatient because at one point we were looking at 4-1. They got all giddy and then we regressed to the mean. That sucks, I feel it too. Howver, I think we are much closer to 9-10 wins than all the nay-sayers would have us believe. They need a WR really bad. They need better guard play. Beyond that, there is concern over age of some of the DL and a desire for a defensive playmaker. However, what people always seem to forget is that guys change each year, mostly for the better. Rudy is going to be better next year. Harrison Smith will be better. Chris Cook will be better. Brinkley will be better. So will Fusco. Jarius Wright will be better.

I think a change at this point might be premature. Next season if they regress or stagnate it will be time to look at changes, IMO.

[S197]

I think a change at this point might be premature. Next season if they regress or stagnate it will be time to look at changes, IMO.

I agree. I just think it's interesting that everyone seems to be all over Musgrave like they were with Bevell. Then you look at what Seattle did to us under Bevell and it makes you wonder.

The Vikings were a 3-win team last year but I think it easily could have been 6 wins. If you look at games like Detroit where it was a combination of a no-call by the ref and a real fluke play costing the Vikings the win. Or the first 3 games where the team was absolutely dominant in the first half only to meltdown in the second.

I think if Frazier can finish at .500 then that would be noteworthy considering the team's youth. The difficulty with this year's schedule is the back-end is so much more difficult than the front that it's hard to evaluate progress, which is really what you're looking for in a rebuild year.

[John_Viveiros]

It's not even close to a championship caliber roster and I don't believe it would be with Brees, Rodgers or any other top QB running it. They'd make it better but championship caliber? There are too many shortcomings.

I'll admit to being a broken record. The Vikes have a roster that can compete for the Superbowl (not saying they'd win - there is the jinx), if they had a top 3 QB. How valuable is a QB? Look at a guy like Sidney Rice. His healthy year with the Vikes (and Favre): 83 catches for 1312 yards and 8 TD's and a probowl nod. Healthy year at Seattle, projected, with Russell Wilson (a guy probably better than Ponder): 57 catches for 860 yards and 4 TD's. Brees, or Brady, would throw open a lot of these receivers. And he'd be doing it with 9 guys stacked in the box to stop Peterson.

Bears with Cutler win 60% or more of their games. Bears without Cutler win 25% of their games. That's six wins per year, over sixteen games.

Maybe the Bears are 4-7 now, with Ponder at QB.

[saint33]

I'll admit to being a broken record. The Vikes have a roster that can compete for the Superbowl (not saying they'd win - there is the jinx), if they had a top 3 QB. How valuable is a QB? Look at a guy like Sidney Rice. His healthy year with the Vikes (and Favre): 83 catches for 1312 yards and 8 TD's and a probowl nod. Healthy year at Seattle, projected, with Russell Wilson (a guy probably better than Ponder): 57 catches for 860 yards and 4 TD's. Brees, or Brady, would throw open a lot of these receivers. And he'd be doing it with 9 guys stacked in the box to stop Peterson.

Bears with Cutler win 60% or more of their games. Bears without Cutler win 25% of their games. That's six wins per year, over sixteen games.

Maybe the Bears are 4-7 now, with Ponder at QB.

I highly doubt that. Ponder is 6-5 without the best defense in the league and Brandon Marshall at WR

[mansquatch]

I agree. I just think it's interesting that everyone seems to be all over Musgrave like they were with Bevell. Then you look at what Seattle did to us under Bevell and it makes you wonder.

The Vikings were a 3-win team last year but I think it easily could have been 6 wins. If you look at games like Detroit where it was a combination of a no-call by the ref and a real fluke play costing the Vikings the win. Or the first 3 games where the team was absolutely dominant in the first half only to meltdown in the second.

I think if Frazier can finish at .500 then that would be noteworthy considering the team's youth. The difficulty with this year's schedule is the back-end is so much more difficult than the front that it's hard to evaluate progress, which is really what you're looking for in a rebuild year.

I think we are seeing it. The problem is that in 2010 when Childress got canned, the team had virtually non-existant depth in large areas of the roster: QB, OL, WR, S. In 2011 they drafted Ponder to fill the biggest hole on the roster. They also had a concentration of injuries at CB/S and had McKinnie go McKinnie, which made the OL problems even worse. In 2012 they made big steps towards fixing OL and S. QB is still developing, and WR is still a major gap. We are seeing Kwill and Winfield get into the Twilight of their career. I'm not as worried about CB, assuming Cook can stay healthy. (risky) We probably need more talent at LB.

Given all of that, they will probably win 7-8 games this year after 3-13 this year and 6-10 in 2011. That isn't bad given the state of this roster in January 2011.

I think a lot of folks tend to view players as either All Pro or Junk. I view them as Exceptional/Good/Average/Junk. The problem right now with the Vikings is that our OG are currently playing "Average" to "Junk" and every WR aside from Wright and PH are Junk or worse. (Wright is mostly junk, but has potential to grow) I think Ponder is average, but there are concentrations of "junk" at key areas in the passing game and that is too much for him to overcome at this stage in his career. That isn't an endorsement of Ponder, he needs to get to "Good". It is just pointing out the Passing game has a bevy of problems, mostly resulting from concentrations of poor talent in key areas.

With regards to teh coaching staff, despite they above they have a shot at 8-8. That isn't bad after 1 full offseason and only 2 real drafts given the roster they inherited. Having AP certaily helps a lot.

[losperros]

I'll admit to being a broken record. The Vikes have a roster that can compete for the Superbowl (not saying they'd win - there is the jinx), if they had a top 3 QB. How valuable is a QB? Look at a guy like Sidney Rice. His healthy year with the Vikes (and Favre): 83 catches for 1312 yards and 8 TD's and a probowl nod. Healthy year at Seattle, projected, with Russell Wilson (a guy probably better than Ponder): 57 catches for 860 yards and 4 TD's. Brees, or Brady, would throw open a lot of these receivers. And he'd be doing it with 9 guys stacked in the box to stop Peterson.

Bears with Cutler win 60% or more of their games. Bears without Cutler win 25% of their games. That's six wins per year, over sixteen games.

Maybe the Bears are 4-7 now, with Ponder at QB.

When Ponder plays poorly and is inaccurate, that's on him. When receivers run poor routes, don't get separation, and drop catchable passes, that's on them. It doesn't work any other way. They all get paid to do a job.

[mansquatch]

I'll admit to being a broken record. The Vikes have a roster that can compete for the Superbowl (not saying they'd win - there is the jinx), if they had a top 3 QB. How valuable is a QB? Look at a guy like Sidney Rice. His healthy year with the Vikes (and Favre): 83 catches for 1312 yards and 8 TD's and a probowl nod. Healthy year at Seattle, projected, with Russell Wilson (a guy probably better than Ponder): 57 catches for 860 yards and 4 TD's. Brees, or Brady, would throw open a lot of these receivers. And he'd be doing it with 9 guys stacked in the box to stop Peterson.

Bears with Cutler win 60% or more of their games. Bears without Cutler win 25% of their games. That's six wins per year, over sixteen games.

Maybe the Bears are 4-7 now, with Ponder at QB.

You are assuming our receivers are as good as Rice or Marhsall. That is not the case, there is no WR on our team like those two guys, both are big, strong guys that can go get the ball. Harvin is a stud, but he is not that kind of WR, he is short and shifty, makes guys miss. Very different type of game. There is no Marshall or Rice or VJAX type player on this team. We need one bad.

Ponder had good ball placement on several key throws on Sunday, those balls were dropped. Whether you had Brees or Wilson or even Brady making those throws, it wouldn't matter if the WR can't hold on.

[Demi]

Ponder had good ball placement on several key throws on Sunday, those balls were dropped. Whether you had Brees or Wilson or even Brady making those throws, it wouldn't matter if the WR can't hold on.

And the wide open throws Ponder missed that the others don't? Those are the ones that make the difference in games. Just the confidence of having a top flight quarterback. Along with putting touch on balls, ball placement.

[soflavike]

Are we seriously comparing Ponder to Drew Brees?

[Cliff]

Are we seriously comparing Ponder to Drew Brees?

I highly reccomend you go look at Drew Brees' stats for his 2 first full seasons before you laugh so hard at that.

[John_Viveiros]

Just for fun, let's add another player for comparison. How about Jerome Simpson. I'm sure you've heard of him. He had a rookie QB throwing to him last year - he ended up with 50 catches for 725 yards and 4 TD's. This year, he has Ponder throwing to him. In seven games, he has 12 catches for 138 yards. That projects to 27 catches and 315 yards and no TD's for the season.

And his rookie QB last year didn't have the luxury of eight-nine men in the box nearly every play.

To me, that's how bad Ponder is. He's throwing for less than 2/3 the yardage of the top QB's. With a great QB, Rudolph has 60 receptions for 600 yards and 10 TD's (and projects to ~90/900/15 for a full season). He looks like a legitimate probowl TE threat. Jenkins, with a great QB, projects to 65 receptions and 727 yards (low-mid #2 WR numbers, exceptional #3 WR numbers). He looks like a legitimate receiver now. Harvin's numbers go through the roof, because he is that dynamic of a player.

But we're all biased - looking at the world through purple glasses. How's this for a challenge: find a fan of another team (that isn't from Ponder's college or his hometown) who would say "Boy, I'd really like Ponder to be the future starter for my team".