Run into some old friends from another group or board? Want to do a little schmoozing, talk over old times? Or just some off topic stuff, then this is the place.
A family whose house was raided by police in error is outraged that eight officers involved were honored. Police say the eight, who also took fire, "performed bravely."
I know there are some law enforcement members on this board, so I will say this carefully... What in the Hell are these officers getting medals for? Shooting the wrong people? I don't care if the people did fire back, they RAIDED THE WRONG HOUSE. That just makes me want to puke. Giving them a medal for totally screwing up. What a joke.
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." #SKOL2018
The justification is that they were shot in the line of duty. Except in this case, "shot" means that their helmets and body armor took some shrapnel. I'm not trying to minimize the danger of the situation, but that shrapnel from I'm guessing a small bore handgun to armor? The officers might not have even realized they were hit until they got back to the station. In my mind, calling that "shot in the line of duty" actually minimizes all those who were really shot and injured or killed in the line of duty.
Although, given the history of the Mpls PD, I can't say I'm all that surprised.
This whole thing was odd... so I asked a friend about it.
Here's the deal as I was told: The police did the job they were assigned, they were fired on and returned fire. They were hit... and I guess Mpls. gives awards to every officer hit in the line of duty. I don't have a problem with that, I couldn't do their job.
If you take look at just their role in this, and the history of the PD honoring officers in the line of fire, it makes some sense. The guys who took the shots were just following orders. If others screwed up that's a problem, but these guys were just doing what they were told.
John wrote:This whole thing was odd... so I asked a friend about it.
Here's the deal as I was told: The police did the job they were assigned, they were fired on and returned fire. They were hit... and I guess Mpls. gives awards to every officer hit in the line of duty. I don't have a problem with that, I couldn't do their job.
If you take look at just their role in this, and the history of the PD honoring officers in the line of fire, it makes some sense. The guys who took the shots were just following orders. If others screwed up that's a problem, but these guys were just doing what they were told.
Exactly John!
Sorry I come from a family of Police officers and people usually jump to conclusions without knowing the whole story...kinda like this one.
glg wrote:The justification is that they were shot in the line of duty. Except in this case, "shot" means that their helmets and body armor took some shrapnel. I'm not trying to minimize the danger of the situation, but that shrapnel from I'm guessing a small bore handgun to armor? The officers might not have even realized they were hit until they got back to the station. In my mind, calling that "shot in the line of duty" actually minimizes all those who were really shot and injured or killed in the line of duty.
Although, given the history of the Mpls PD, I can't say I'm all that surprised.
Ever been shot before?
Would you like to put on some "armor" and let someone take some shots at you?
Me either.
Getting shot with body armor on isnt fun regardless of the type of gun used.
Sorry I come from a family of Police officers and people usually jump to conclusions without knowing the whole story...kinda like this one.
I come from a family that obeys laws and respect the people who put their lives on the line to protect us.
The thing about this story is it isn't a big story regarding the police at the scene. It lends itself to being taken about fifty different ways and is perfect for the media. A quick look says the cops on the scene actually did a pretty good job. It could have been so much worse. They shouldn't be the focus here.
Would you like to put on some "armor" and let someone take some shots at you?
Me either.Getting shot with body armor on isn't fun regardless of the type of gun used.
Actually they say a magnum round at close range is like getting hit with a sledge hammer.
you still take the force of the bullet it just stops the penetration of the round. Broken ribs
or bruised ribs I'll pass on that.
Police said they acted on bad information from an informant
A lot of what police do in combating crime is based on information from confidential informants (CIs) or snitches. Without CIs lots of crimes would go unsolved. In a case like this where the CI fed them bad information it usually ends up in a mess.
The family's lawyer, Thomas Heffelfinger, said that he has had ongoing conversations with the city attorney's office and that there will be a lawsuit if they cannot reach a resolution.
The City of Mpls will have their hands full. Heffelfinger is a heavyweight. He is a former US Attorney for MN and has a solid rep as a law and order guy.
Heffelfinger also said the family had lived at the house for four years and had no history of wrongdoing. He said police "failed to do their homework" and "acted outrageously once they got there."
I don't know about the last part of his statement but if the first part is true that will be very damaging information in the hands of a jury. Even if the CI made them believe this was time urgent it still does not take a lot to checkout someone who has been living in the same residence for four years. No one thought to see if the guy had a record? That really does sound like someone dropped the ball. I think the city is going to want to do whatever they can to reach a settlement in this case and keep it from going to a jury.
I read the thread before the story, and while I found myself agreeing with VM and John's perspectives in the thread, after reading the article I'd say it's absolutely poor PR (at the least) to be handing out medals on this. While police officers deserve respect for putting their lives on the line for us, and people don't always give them that respect, on the flip side, have you ever seen a police raid? It's like chaos. Being an undeserving civilian victim of a police raid is probably 1000x scarier than trained policemen receiving fire. I could see it being an extremely trying event, especially for children. Maybe that family deserves medals too...oh wait, they can buy their own with the millions they get from MPD.
In short, it doesn't appear the policemen involved were to blame, and they were only doing their job, which is an honorable and necessary job with huge risks to their livelihood. And it could have been a lot worse, as in, the whole family could be dead. It probably took a lot of restraint by the police officers to keep a cool head in this situation. So it appears they deserve praise for how the situation was handled. Furthermore, handing out medals to policemen that are shot is a very good policy; I just don't know if it should apply to 100% of the situations, and this is a great example of a situation where it seems like poor judgment to do so. If these officers don't deserve to be the focus, as John says, why purposefully make them a focus by handing out awards?
Not that it's the biggest deal, but it provides plenty of ammunition (pardon the pun) for critics of the police force to disparage them in a public setting. I happen to believe that public confidence in the police is very important, and in this case there should be some punishment somewhere along the line. Someone dropped the ball on this, and maybe rectifying that mistake to the public should be priority #1.
Would you like to put on some "armor" and let someone take some shots at you?
Me either.
Getting shot with body armor on isnt fun regardless of the type of gun used.
They weren't hit by a bullet. They were hit by some shrapnel. We aren't talking a guy with an M-16 and a big bullet that would have some ugly shrapnel, we're talking a guy in his house with a pistol that is most likely small bore. Could still cut you up good if it hit you on the arm, but the story doesn't say that, it says it hit them in the armor. There was no statement that any of the officers was even injured. I said right at the start I was going by the article, and if it has some blatant omissions, then what I say doesn't hold. But based on what the article says, calling these guys shot and giving them medals is diminishing those that were shot.
I'm not saying the officers on the scene did anything wrong. Most, if not all of the guys in that raid aren't the guys who should have checked up on the homeowner and seen that the informant was likely wrong. They were doing their job. I'm just saying that this may not have been medal worthy.
glg wrote:
They weren't hit by a bullet. They were hit by some shrapnel. We aren't talking a guy with an M-16 and a big bullet that would have some ugly shrapnel, we're talking a guy in his house with a pistol that is most likely small bore. Could still cut you up good if it hit you on the arm, but the story doesn't say that, it says it hit them in the armor. There was no statement that any of the officers was even injured. I said right at the start I was going by the article, and if it has some blatant omissions, then what I say doesn't hold. But based on what the article says, calling these guys shot and giving them medals is diminishing those that were shot.
I'm not saying the officers on the scene did anything wrong. Most, if not all of the guys in that raid aren't the guys who should have checked up on the homeowner and seen that the informant was likely wrong. They were doing their job. I'm just saying that this may not have been medal worthy.
That's my issue. If they did get shot with a bullet, then the officer who got shot could maybe get a medal. But IMO, this is not an instance where medals should have been given, since someone didn't do their job right. At work, if I do everything right, but someone on a different shift does something wrong, I don't get a reward. I don't get in trouble, but I don't get a reward either.
The Devil whispered in the Viking's ear, "There's a storm coming." The Viking replied, "I am the storm." #SKOL2018
PurpleMustReign wrote:That's my issue. If they did get shot with a bullet, then the officer who got shot could maybe get a medal. But IMO, this is not an instance where medals should have been given, since someone didn't do their job right. At work, if I do everything right, but someone on a different shift does something wrong, I don't get a reward. I don't get in trouble, but I don't get a reward either.
Fair enough. But they didn't ask for any awards as far as I can tell.
I think we all agree that these guys just took orders, and did the task they were handed. Even in hindsight, we can say they did a pretty good job of it, bad as the situation was. We seem to agree it had potential to be a terrible thing... but it wasn't. Mistakes and all, this became a gunfight and they figured it out in time.
I don't like this story. I don't care about any of the awards to the officers. All that makes for a good newspaper story while overlooking the problem. They weren't the problem.
At work, if I do everything right, but someone on a different shift does something wrong, I don't get a reward. I don't get in trouble, but I don't get a reward either.
How bout you are at work and doing everything right, then one of your bosses screws up one of the machines and in doing so a fellow employee gets trapped/grabbed by the machine and is going to get hurt BUT he doesnt get hurt because you are able to free him from the machine.
Sounds to me like these guys were just doing their job, someone else put them in harms way, they responded appropriately, bravely and now are being recognized for it....seems pretty just to me.
