Refgate versus Spygate

[Mr. X]

Pretty good article about the vastly different reactions of the NBA's Refgate versus the NFL's Spygate.
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/25212888/

The allegations in the NBA's Refgate scandal are far more serious than the NFL's Sypgate scandal. Look at how Goodell handled Spygate compared to how Stern is handling Refgate. You couldn't have two more different reactions. Goodell did an in-depth investigation whereas Stern has yet to do anything that I can see (other than conclude that Tim Donaghy's claims about the refs extending the 2002 NBA finals to 7 games are false). For now Donaghy's allegations are just that ... allegations, but one would think that Stern would want a full scale investigation in order to refute those allegations. Maybe his lack of pursuing an investigation is simply a strategy of hoping it goes away ... or ... maybe he is afraid of what a real investigation would reveal.

[PurpleMustReign]

Pretty good article about the vastly different reactions of the NBA's Refgate versus the NFL's Spygate.
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/25212888/

The allegations in the NBA's Refgate scandal are far more serious than the NFL's Sypgate scandal. Look at how Goodell handled Spygate compared to how Stern is handling Refgate. You couldn't have two more different reactions. Goodell did an in-depth investigation whereas Stern has yet to do anything that I can see (other than conclude that Tim Donaghy's claims about the refs extending the 2002 NBA finals to 7 games are false). For now Donaghy's allegations are just that ... allegations, but one would think that Stern would want a full scale investigation in order to refute those allegations. Maybe his lack of pursuing an investigation is simply a strategy of hoping it goes away ... or ... maybe he is afraid of what a real investigation would reveal.

For years I wondered about the refeering in the NBA. I've been to many Wolves games where the visiting team shoots 15-20 more free throws than them, and more than once it was Dick Bavetta. That's why it didn't surprise me when Bavetta was mentioned. I'm not saying he is guilty of anything, but it would not surprise me. I guarantee Donaghy is not the only ref involved. There is no way that only one ref is gambling on games.

[TrenchGoon]

I agree that this is the bigger story. To me, the WWE is about as authentic as the NBA has been in the last few years. I remember watching the unpopular Hawks have every call go against them several years running in the playoffs when going against the bulls. Of course, Pheonix, Sacramento, and Portland have all been blatantly screwed in playoff series in the West. I don't even have a team, and thus no axe to grind or sour grapes, just watching these series as an interested observer it has been clearly obvious. The Jazz in the NBA finals are another example. Jordan was a great player, but as far as I am concerned, his titles are more tainted than New Englands. The NBA knew what its fans wanted to see, and they rolled out the red carpet...right over the heads of the opposing teams in the eastern conference.

Also, a league wide scandal is obviously more troubling than an isolated team or player seeking an unfair or illegal advantage.

[Demi]

Let's not forget their complete mockery of their draft.

[PurpleMustReign]

Of course, Pheonix, Sacramento, and Portland have all been blatantly screwed in playoff series in the West.

I will forever contend that the Conference Finals between the Lakers and Kings was set up for the Lakers to win. LA had no business winning game 6 or 7.

I said in my other post, Dick Bavetta is a slime of a ref. I have a feeling he will be found to have done some less than honest refereeing.

[Mr. X]

David Stern is making Bud Selig look like an effective commissioner (which I thought was nearly impossible). Selig conducted an investigation into steroid abuse, albeit with some prodding from Congress. Goodell conducted an investigation of Spygate. Stern seems intent on ignoring these allegations from a former ref about fixing games. How can he get away with not conducting any kind of investigation, sham or otherwise, into Donaghy's claims? Why aren't the NBA fans getting in an uproar over this?

[glg]

Why aren't the NBA fans getting in an uproar over this?

Because these aren't new allegations. If one is a fan of the NBA, one has already heard all this and either ignores or accepts it.

[PurpleMustReign]

Because these aren't new allegations. If one is a fan of the NBA, one has already heard all this and either ignores or accepts it.

Or has known this has been going on for years already. I guarantee Donaghy is not the only one who has done this stuff. And I guarantee it has gone on in all sports. IMO, the NBA and NFL are the two worst for it, there are way too many blatently blown calls in both sports to think it is only human error.

[axeldaddy]

I remember watching the unpopular Hawks have every call go against them several years running in the playoffs when going against the bulls.

I think that was about the only time Dominique Wilkins didn't get the calls.

I would compare the entertainment value of basketball to a TV variety show, and the refs play a role. BBall reffing is incredibly subjective, though, and we shouldn't forget they are humans out there. But what is going on right now is way beyond that. Intolerable, and the NBA has enough problems.

Look at how Goodell handled Spygate compared to how Stern is handling Refgate.

Yep. Goodell took timely action, and whether agree or not with his decisions, it certainly took some fuel away from the fire.

The NBA is really screwed up.

[TrenchGoon]

I think that was about the only time Dominique Wilkins didn't get the calls.

I was thinking more about the later lenny wilkins days with steve smith, mutombo, blaylock, kevin willis and a few other guys. They were very good defensive teams and the scores usually looked like college games. A hawks finals would have been terrible for the league, and the refs made sure it never happened, but they had the bulls number during those years.

I would compare the entertainment value of basketball to a TV variety show, and the refs play a role. BBall reffing is incredibly subjective, though, and we shouldn't forget they are humans out there. But what is going on right now is way beyond that. Intolerable, and the NBA has enough problems.

I would compare the entertainment value to wrestling. The matches are "fixed" and the "cheating" ref or wrestler infuriates the fan. Its like the cheating itself is part of the drama and I think that's the reason the NBA is surviving this so far. In a subconscious way, fans love it when their team gets jobbed. They know their team should have won and they can forever have a grievance about it. They can take whatever real or imagined grievances they have and inject them into a meaningless game. Its therapeutic in a way probably, giving them a harmless avenue to channel their rage.

[Mr. X]

I would compare the entertainment value to wrestling. The matches are "fixed" and the "cheating" ref or wrestler infuriates the fan. Its like the cheating itself is part of the drama and I think that's the reason the NBA is surviving this so far. In a subconscious way, fans love it when their team gets jobbed. They know their team should have won and they can forever have a grievance about it. They can take whatever real or imagined grievances they have and inject them into a meaningless game. Its therapeutic in a way probably, giving them a harmless avenue to channel their rage.

Great commentary guys. Very well said.

The officiating in the NFL can, at times, be really infuriating but when compared to the other pro leagues I'd say it is superior in all nearly all regards. If I had to rate the quality of officiating in pro sports, from best to worst, it would be as follows: 1)NFL 2)NHL 3)MLB 4)NBA

What bugs me about MLB is the wide disparity in the strike zone. Not only do umpires vary from one to the other but there's also a difference between the American league and the National league (or so I'm told). Lots of mind games for batters when they have to not only try to get a read on the pitcher but they also have to adjust to the ump behind the plate.

As for preferential treatment, the officials in both the NBA and MLB are really bad at having a double standard for the superstars. It's natural to expect that some of that is going to happen but both of those leagues have gone way too far in that regard.

In the NFL you don't see the refs giving preferential treatment to the superstars nearly as much as you do in the other leagues. At least that's my take on it. Of course there was the Brett Favre exception but he's out of the league now so we won't have to deal with that anymore.

[axeldaddy]

Yep to all of that!

What bugs me about MLB is the wide disparity in the strike zone.

Me too, and it is similar to the Jordanesque NBA calls. Great pitchers get their personal strike zones, differing with each ump, based on reputation. But one thing these stars in basketball and baseball have in common, I think, is that they won't make the ref or ump look foolish for siding with such talent. Skip Carey used to say about Glavine getting calls out of the strike zone that he earned them with consistency and great control. Even the batters would rarely complain. TrenchGoon seems have the psychology down, and it suggests to me that it, whatever it is, is just part of the game.

Although I believe instant replay has harmed NFL officiating, give me football reffing any day.

BTW: This is kinda crazy, but this is making me wonder if dragging out refgate is, counter intuitively, actually good for basketball...Ya think?