Screen Plays

[cmoss84]

We have to be one of the worst, if not the worst, screen-running teams. Great win, but we need to get these figured out...and fast! Cook can be such a weapon, no matter how you get him the ball. It just seems as though every time we run a screen the other team is ready for it.

Why? Seriously...does anyone have any answers-please and thanks.

Is it Cousins or blocking or something else?

[Cliff]

We have to be one of the worst, if not the worst, screen-running teams. Great win, but we need to get these figured out...and fast! Cook can be such a weapon, no matter how you get him the ball. It just seems as though every time we run a screen the other team is ready for it.

Why? Seriously...does anyone have any answers-please and thanks.

Is it Cousins or blocking or something else?

I think Cousins kind of gets locked onto the first read on a screen. The offensive line also doesn't give him a ton of time to think about it so there's that ...

[PacificNorseWest]

^There's really no reads or progression on screens. It's usually designed to go to one person. The quarterback does have a sell job to do though and Kirk is horrible at it. The line is also supposed to block for a beat before releasing and though I don't know for sure, it feels like they're just ole'ing the defender and not even giving a nice chip before releasing to allow the screen to develop. It also seems like Kirk doesn't throw the ball in a good spot for the receiver to catch it. It's too low, too high and other times the receiver just drops it.

I'd have to go back and watch film on it to be certain, but it feels like a mixture of everything and something they just aren't good at it, which is yet another concern given how it's a fundamental football play.

[PurpleMustReign]

^There's really no reads or progression on screens. It's usually designed to go to one person. The quarterback does have a sell job to do though and Kirk is horrible at it. The line is also supposed to block for a beat before releasing and though I don't know for sure, it feels like they're just ole'ing the defender and not even giving a nice chip before releasing to allow the screen to develop. It also seems like Kirk doesn't throw the ball in a good spot for the receiver to catch it. It's too low, too high and other times the receiver just drops it.

I'd have to go back and watch film on it to be certain, but it feels like a mixture of everything and something they just aren't good at it, which is yet another concern given how it's a fundamental football play.

Maybe that's what Fouts was referring to... Cousins didn't sell the screen enough, and that's why the pick 6. It seemed he stared right at Diggs and then telegraphed the pass.

[PacificNorseWest]

^There's really no reads or progression on screens. It's usually designed to go to one person. The quarterback does have a sell job to do though and Kirk is horrible at it. The line is also supposed to block for a beat before releasing and though I don't know for sure, it feels like they're just ole'ing the defender and not even giving a nice chip before releasing to allow the screen to develop. It also seems like Kirk doesn't throw the ball in a good spot for the receiver to catch it. It's too low, too high and other times the receiver just drops it.

I'd have to go back and watch film on it to be certain, but it feels like a mixture of everything and something they just aren't good at it, which is yet another concern given how it's a fundamental football play.

Maybe that's what Fouts was referring to... Cousins didn't sell the screen enough, and that's why the pick 6. It seemed he stared right at Diggs and then telegraphed the pass.

Yeah, I think you're right. I remember him saying something like that. A lot of smart players can "feel" when a screen play is developing, but overall, it's a tough play to defend if everyone executes their role and the QB can't stare down the guy he's giving the ball to whether that's a screen or otherwise, but because a screen is such a precise play, it's so much more dangerous because the margin for error is small. You see it all the time with near misses with tipped balls and such and also the close calls where the ball is laid out perfectly and there is a huge gain because of the precision is so exact and it baited the defense perfectly with everyone selling the play. Kirk didn't do his job on that play. Stared at Diggs, the defender didn't bite, watched Kirk's eyes and got an early Christmas present.

[J. Kapp 11]

That pick six ... Minkah Fitzpatrick set Cousins up. It was obvious to me on the isolation replay that he knew by formation or something else pre-snap that the screen was coming. He hid in the weeds and then jumped it. He knew it was coming.

As for the original question, we really do suck at it. And what's interesting is that we were REALLY GOOD AT IT last year. One of the best screen teams in the NFL. Since both the quarterback and the offensive coordinator are different, I have no idea where the fault lies, but it seems to me that it must be one of the two. One thing I've noticed is that our screens this year seem to be more like gadget plays. We fake handoffs one way and screen the other way, stuff like that. They're very slow developing, and it seems like the defense isn't ever fooled by the misdirection. Most screen plays aren't that complex. The QB drops back, the line pass blocks for a count, then gets out on the screen, the QB drops back farther and hits the back behind the line, but a forward pass. Our screens this year are far from the traditional screens we normally see. They're gadgety.

Kevin Stefanski did a really good job of using Pat Shurmur concepts against the Dolphins. I'm hoping he studies the way we ran screens last year under Shurmur and works to bring this year's team back to that level.

[VikingLord]

If I had to lay blame for poor execution on this particular screen play, I'd lay it at the feet of Rudolph first for not taking care of the DB. The pre-snap motion of Diggs tips the coverage. That DB is literally the only defensive player who can mess up the play since he's the only DB up in press and he's assigned man to the primary receiver. Everyone can see that, including Rudolph. If he's blocked, he is out of the play, and it certainly isn't taken back for a score. And if Cousins expected Rudolph to simply block the one guy that is nearest the LOS on that snap, and that isn't an unreasonable assumption for him to make, the throw is not particularly risky as the remaining Dolphin defenders on that side are all far away from the LOS. Rudolph can block the guy. He just fails to do it. His failure is not because the DB defeats the block - it's because Rudolph looks like he thinks his job is to head downfield and find a different DB to block on the play. He more or less releases the press cover DB like the LT releases the play side DE, only in Rudolph's case, that DB is in position to impact the play, while the DE is not.

Anyway, like most things in football, good discipline and recognition are all critical to success. That includes screens, and at least on this particular screen, the Vikings had the pre-snap info and post-snap pieces in place to avoid the resultant disaster quite easily. It isn't a great call on 3rd-and-15, although Diggs is one of the guys on the offense that could make it work. Cook would be the other if they wanted to turn a short throw into 15 yards with the secondary playing off. Cook is in on the play, but he's used as a decoy blocker and is not really a viable safety valve. Maybe Cousins could have turned him into one had he looked off Diggs.

You can watch the play here (starts at 2:37):

https://www.vikings.com/video/full-high ... olphins-17

[PurpleKoolaid]

In my almost 30 years of watching the Vikings, they have never been really good at any type of screen play. Or gimic play. But they sure have been taken advantage by them.

[PurpleMustReign]

In my almost 30 years of watching the Vikings, they have never been really good at any type of screen play. Or gimic play. But they sure have been taken advantage by them.

The 1998 team was. But, that team was good at everything.

[PurpleKoolaid]

In my almost 30 years of watching the Vikings, they have never been really good at any type of screen play. Or gimic play. But they sure have been taken advantage by them.

The 1998 team was. But, that team was good at everything.

Your right. That was the hardest year to be a fan. They were pretty good at executing plays.

[Cliff]

^There's really no reads or progression on screens. It's usually designed to go to one person. The quarterback does have a sell job to do though and Kirk is horrible at it. The line is also supposed to block for a beat before releasing and though I don't know for sure, it feels like they're just ole'ing the defender and not even giving a nice chip before releasing to allow the screen to develop. It also seems like Kirk doesn't throw the ball in a good spot for the receiver to catch it. It's too low, too high and other times the receiver just drops it.

I'd have to go back and watch film on it to be certain, but it feels like a mixture of everything and something they just aren't good at it, which is yet another concern given how it's a fundamental football play.

I always thought there was an outlet in case someone was covered like on that pick 6. You can't just throw it away either because it'd be grounding. Did he really not have an outlet if the screen was covered? That seems like terrible play design.

[StumpHunter]

If I had to lay blame for poor execution on this particular screen play, I'd lay it at the feet of Rudolph first for not taking care of the DB. The pre-snap motion of Diggs tips the coverage. That DB is literally the only defensive player who can mess up the play since he's the only DB up in press and he's assigned man to the primary receiver. Everyone can see that, including Rudolph. If he's blocked, he is out of the play, and it certainly isn't taken back for a score. And if Cousins expected Rudolph to simply block the one guy that is nearest the LOS on that snap, and that isn't an unreasonable assumption for him to make, the throw is not particularly risky as the remaining Dolphin defenders on that side are all far away from the LOS. Rudolph can block the guy. He just fails to do it. His failure is not because the DB defeats the block - it's because Rudolph looks like he thinks his job is to head downfield and find a different DB to block on the play. He more or less releases the press cover DB like the LT releases the play side DE, only in Rudolph's case, that DB is in position to impact the play, while the DE is not.

Anyway, like most things in football, good discipline and recognition are all critical to success. That includes screens, and at least on this particular screen, the Vikings had the pre-snap info and post-snap pieces in place to avoid the resultant disaster quite easily. It isn't a great call on 3rd-and-15, although Diggs is one of the guys on the offense that could make it work. Cook would be the other if they wanted to turn a short throw into 15 yards with the secondary playing off. Cook is in on the play, but he's used as a decoy blocker and is not really a viable safety valve. Maybe Cousins could have turned him into one had he looked off Diggs.

You can watch the play here (starts at 2:37):

https://www.vikings.com/video/full-high ... olphins-17

The nfl.com has a really good replay that shows Rudolph had no shot at blocking the guy. Diggs is lined up outside of Rudolph so the CB was running away from Kyle, making blocking him impossible. Kyle would have had to tackle the CB to stop the pick.

[PacificNorseWest]

^There's really no reads or progression on screens. It's usually designed to go to one person. The quarterback does have a sell job to do though and Kirk is horrible at it. The line is also supposed to block for a beat before releasing and though I don't know for sure, it feels like they're just ole'ing the defender and not even giving a nice chip before releasing to allow the screen to develop. It also seems like Kirk doesn't throw the ball in a good spot for the receiver to catch it. It's too low, too high and other times the receiver just drops it.

I'd have to go back and watch film on it to be certain, but it feels like a mixture of everything and something they just aren't good at it, which is yet another concern given how it's a fundamental football play.

I always thought there was an outlet in case someone was covered like on that pick 6. You can't just throw it away either because it'd be grounding. Did he really not have an outlet if the screen was covered? That seems like terrible play design.

There's not typically an outlet. That is why you always see quarterbacks throw it directly at the feet in the ground near the receiver/running back when the play isn't there. In my opinion, it is the exact definition of intentional grounding, but they never call it because the receiver is "in the area."

[Dames]

The nfl.com has a really good replay that shows Rudolph had no shot at blocking the guy. Diggs is lined up outside of Rudolph so the CB was running away from Kyle, making blocking him impossible. Kyle would have had to tackle the CB to stop the pick.

It certainly appears that he could have gotten in front of the DB if he fired out. Honestly, the more I look at it, I think it was a just a good play by Fitzpatrick who recognized what was coming. He broke in towards Rudolph, causing him to set up for a block, and as soon as Cousins was throwing, he bounced back out and made a really nice break on the ball. Rudolph really didn't act like he missed his block, so it's hard to say if it was intentional to let him go, but it almost looks like it. He actually reached his arm around the DB and appeared to try to push him in the back towards the play, but he may have just been trying to throw his timing off.





I've been playing with making gifs It's kinda fun.

[VikingLord]

If I had to lay blame for poor execution on this particular screen play, I'd lay it at the feet of Rudolph first for not taking care of the DB. The pre-snap motion of Diggs tips the coverage. That DB is literally the only defensive player who can mess up the play since he's the only DB up in press and he's assigned man to the primary receiver. Everyone can see that, including Rudolph. If he's blocked, he is out of the play, and it certainly isn't taken back for a score. And if Cousins expected Rudolph to simply block the one guy that is nearest the LOS on that snap, and that isn't an unreasonable assumption for him to make, the throw is not particularly risky as the remaining Dolphin defenders on that side are all far away from the LOS. Rudolph can block the guy. He just fails to do it. His failure is not because the DB defeats the block - it's because Rudolph looks like he thinks his job is to head downfield and find a different DB to block on the play. He more or less releases the press cover DB like the LT releases the play side DE, only in Rudolph's case, that DB is in position to impact the play, while the DE is not.

Anyway, like most things in football, good discipline and recognition are all critical to success. That includes screens, and at least on this particular screen, the Vikings had the pre-snap info and post-snap pieces in place to avoid the resultant disaster quite easily. It isn't a great call on 3rd-and-15, although Diggs is one of the guys on the offense that could make it work. Cook would be the other if they wanted to turn a short throw into 15 yards with the secondary playing off. Cook is in on the play, but he's used as a decoy blocker and is not really a viable safety valve. Maybe Cousins could have turned him into one had he looked off Diggs.

You can watch the play here (starts at 2:37):

https://www.vikings.com/video/full-high ... olphins-17

The nfl.com has a really good replay that shows Rudolph had no shot at blocking the guy. Diggs is lined up outside of Rudolph so the CB was running away from Kyle, making blocking him impossible. Kyle would have had to tackle the CB to stop the pick.

From the second gif posted by Dames, I have to agree with you. In the video I saw of it on the link I posted, it looks like Rudolph could have blocked the DB, but from the endzone, it's clear he couldn't.

So then it falls back on Cousins to recognize the DB is in tight man on Diggs and either audible out of the play or go to his second option if he has one. I presume the second option on a screen is the RB, although Cousins isn't going to have much time to go to his second option. Better for Cousins to audible out of the play altogether.

Really odd how he'd try to run the original play. I presume the pre-snap motion of Diggs is there to force the defense to show the coverage. At this point, the only logical explanation for Cousins to continue the original play call is he assumes Rudolph will be able to block the DB or he assumes the DB won't read it and aggressively attack it. But that's the whole point of press man coverage - to get up near the receiver and disrupt him before he can do anything.