Vikings-Cardinals final play thoughts

[Mothman]

Uh oh... Norv's in TRO-OO-UBLE....

[TSonn]

If we're going to run a play there why not just run a rollout? The routes still take time to develop but at least Teddy can toss the ball almost anywhere and not get a grounding call if he's in trouble.

Quick outs on each side is another option but that keeps Teddy in the pocket and adds more risk.

The play last night was basically rollout WR routes but kept Teddy in the pocket which was the worst parts of either of those options.

[losperros]

Uh oh... Norv's in TRO-OO-UBLE....

I certainly hope so but I doubt it.

[losperros]

They are but why is this a limitation that should prevent them from calling a play in that situation? He's a second year pro QB! I've seen college QBs handle the same situation just fine. It's not that complicated.

I guess because Zimmer and Turner are at the top of the food chain. As I said, Bridgewater deserves blame but Zimmer and Turner called the play. They have to take some of the heat, if not the majority of it.

Actually, it's beginning to sound as if Turner called the play by himself, given what Zimmer just said about not liking the play-call.

[dead_poet]

@Andrew_Krammer Zimmer: "In retrospect, we could've probably made a different call or kicked the field goal" on final play ending in strip-sack #Vikings

[Mothman]

I guess because Zimmer and Turner are at the top of the food chain. As I said, Bridgewater deserves blame but Zimmer and Turner called the play. They have to take some of the heat, if not the majority of it.

Actually, it's beginning to sound as if Turner called the play by himself, given what Zimmer just said about not liking the play-call.

I hear you. I think there's plenty of heat to go around on that play.

[PurpleMustReign]

I certainly hope so but I doubt it.

Well maybe this will cause some eyes to open. I still get mad when Patterson ismt on thd field. Maybe Zimmer will have a chat with Norv.

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[mondry]

This play sums up the season for me.

1. Norv calls an awful play the offense isn't good enough to overcome or equipped well enough to handle.
2. Kalil gets smoked badly - Poor blocking on the O-line causes chaos
3. Teddy takes the sack - holds the ball to long, etc

#3 isn't good, #1 and #2 kill any chance we have at performing consistently well and on this play all 3 flared up (which can happen on any play of any drive of any game) destroying the play and our chances.

[dead_poet]

Norv Turner’s Vikings-Cardinals Game-Ending Play Call

http://nflbreakdowns.com/norv-turner-vi ... play-call/

The play ultimately failed, but that is not on Norv Turner, who designed a clever play call, nor on Teddy Bridgewater, who had less than three seconds to pass. If you need to point fingers, you can blame Matt Kalil, but rather than pointing fingers, credit should be given to the Cardinals’ defense and particularly to Dwight Freeney, the future hall of famer whose beautiful speed rush to spin move stopped the play in under three seconds and won the game.

[VikeMike]

It was a combination of two very bad things occurring: The wrong play call in the situation (slow-developing routes?) and Bridgewater not making the right decision to throw the ball away sooner. The bigger crime of the two is the play call, because it doesn't put the young QB in the best position to make a play, especially playing behind a suspect line. Saying that, Teddy has to share the blame, as does Kalil.

When they lined up on third down, I have to admit it didn't even to occur to me that you don't run a play and try to get a little closer. Ninety-nine percent of the time, any team would do that. Bad playcall. Bad execution. Bad result.

I'm of the mindset that they are headed in the right direction — and they have improved this season — but they aren't there yet.
Hopefully, they can right the ship, beat Chicago and New York and make the playoffs. 10-6 or 11-5 is something I would have taken at the start of the year. Hopefully they can take that step this year.

[losperros]

Well maybe this will cause some eyes to open. I still get mad when Patterson ismt on thd field. Maybe Zimmer will have a chat with Norv.

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I know Moth will agree with me on this one since he first brought it up. I'd like to see Patterson as the lone WR on some of the 2TE sets. Seems like he could add an interesting option to the sets, making them even more versatile.

[VikingLord]

The final play never should have occurred. It had little chance of doing anything positive. KICK THE FIELD GOAL ON THIRD DOWN, and we're not having this conversation right now.

Agree 1000%.

[J. Kapp 11]

Norv Turner’s Vikings-Cardinals Game-Ending Play Call

http://nflbreakdowns.com/norv-turner-vi ... play-call/

It's a good analysis (and man, did Matt Kalil get embarrassed) but I still disagree strongly with the idea of even running a play. I also contend it's more than just about the field-goal probabilities. You have to factor in the probability of whether you can even get a kick away.

The entire play is predicated on the Vikings receiver catching the ball and getting out of bounds. No other scenario works.

If the Vikings complete the pass and the receiver DOES NOT get out of bounds, the game is over UNLESS the recover gets the first down AND the Vikings can line up and spike the ball. Freeney sacked Teddy with under 10 seconds left. Let's say Teddy gets the pass away with 9-10 seconds left. At best, the Vikings have 6-8 seconds to line up and spike it. The odds of that are very low, even lower than the 70 percent probability that Walsh makes the 49-yarder (incidentally, Walsh's career percentage is 72.2, not 79).

IF the receiver doesn't get out of bounds and DOESN'T get the first down, the game is over. No way you can get the field goal team on the field, line up, and snap within 6-8 seconds. Even if you could, they would be so rushed that there is no way the probability of making that 39-yard field goal is the normal 85 percent. Not a chance.

Lest anyone think this is 20-20 hindsight, I was screaming at the TV last night within a millisecond of discovering the Vikings were going to run another play. I certainly don't have more than a decade as a head coach and more than 30 years as an NFL coach, as Turner does, yet I managed to make the right call.

Finally, anybody who thinks the field goal strategy is "playing not to lose," I ask you to examine the probabilities again as I've described them. Run the scenarios in your mind and come up with your own set of probabilities. It's one thing to be gung-ho. It's another to jump off a 1,000-foot cliff and expect not to land too hard.

[VikingLord]

Norv Turner’s Vikings-Cardinals Game-Ending Play Call

http://nflbreakdowns.com/norv-turner-vi ... play-call/

For me it wasn't the play that was called, but that a play was called at all.

Should have just kicked it. Heck, if Norv wanted to be clever then fake the FG, but with 13 seconds left and no timeouts you tie up if you can.

[J. Kapp 11]

I know Moth will agree with me on this one since he first brought it up. I'd like to see Patterson as the lone WR on some of the 2TE sets. Seems like he could add an interesting option to the sets, making them even more versatile.

Based on that NFL Breakdowns analysis, he couldn't have done a worse job than the receivers on the left side of the Vikings' formation on that last play. They acted like it was the 4th quarter of a preseason game. Extremely poor break off the line, and with nobody pressing them, it was inexcusable.

Call me daffy, but I'm pretty sure CP at least would have run hard if he were on the field. Especially given the few snaps he's played this year.