Packers-Vikings Game Day

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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Texas Vike » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:54 am

Mothman wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:23 am
Texas Vike wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:05 pm
Our D was at a huge disadvantage today without Hunter, no real NT, and bc Yannick was dinged with an ankle injury. So no pressure and a lot of new CBs? Against Aaron Rodgers? Yeah, we needed the O to do better than a TOP of 18 minutes (to 42).
They needed a better TOP but I view that as a team stat and ultimately, I think the defense may have had more to do with the Vikings failing in that area than the offense did. Consider how the game started: GB had a 13 play, 7.5 minute scoring drive. The Vikes offense came out, did their job, and went 60 yards in 8 plays to take a 7-3 lead. The defense then allowed a 12 play, 74 yard drive that took 6 minutes. It ended in a goal line stand but 3 possessions into the game, the Vikings were already looking at a TOP difference of 13.5 to 8 minutes (and 25 GB plays to 8). The goal line stand left the offense stranded at the 1 and they made it worse by allowing a safety and giving the ball right back to the Packers.

The offense needed to give the defense a little rest and at least pick up a first down on that second possession but the defense had already set themselves up for a long, exhausting day on those first 2 drives. They can't let an opposing team come into their stadium and take over 13 of the first 22 minutes off the clock like that. It's losing football.
All fair points; I completely agree. The D's failures were glaring, I was trying to point out that the O's failures in the first half contributed to a lopsided TOP, which gassed our D, which was undermanned and inexperienced.

The most frustrating thing on D in the first half, when the game was still in question, were the neutral zone infractions on 3rd and long. It was especially frustrating to be at home and yet have Rodgers manipulating cadence and exploiting our underprepared (w/ no preseason) DL all because there was no home crowd noise. Yesterday was just another day in the life of a Vikings fan--in all of its painful glory.

Pretty sure this will be a long season in which we end up about .500.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Cliff » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:55 am

StanM wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:53 am
In spite of our offense flashing some of the problems we feared going into the season they still managed to put 34 points on the board. I think that is enough to win on most Sundays in the NFL. Sure there are issues with the line and they are going to get better but I'll take 34 points any day.
That's super misleading tho. They went into the 4th quarter trailing 29-10. The Packers played soft in the 4th and ran out the clock.

As long as we're losing by 20pts going into the 4th the offense can look great for one quarter.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:12 pm

Mothman wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:23 am
Texas Vike wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:05 pm
Our D was at a huge disadvantage today without Hunter, no real NT, and bc Yannick was dinged with an ankle injury. So no pressure and a lot of new CBs? Against Aaron Rodgers? Yeah, we needed the O to do better than a TOP of 18 minutes (to 42).
They needed a better TOP but I view that as a team stat and ultimately, I think the defense may have had more to do with the Vikings failing in that area than the offense did. Consider how the game started: GB had a 13 play, 7.5 minute scoring drive. The Vikes offense came out, did their job, and went 60 yards in 8 plays to take a 7-3 lead. The defense then allowed a 12 play, 74 yard drive that took 6 minutes. It ended in a goal line stand but 3 possessions into the game, the Vikings were already looking at a TOP difference of 13.5 to 8 minutes (and 25 GB plays to 8). The goal line stand left the offense stranded at the 1 and they made it worse by allowing a safety and giving the ball right back to the Packers.

The offense needed to give the defense a little rest and at least pick up a first down on that second possession but the defense had already set themselves up for a long, exhausting day on those first 2 drives. They can't let an opposing team come into their stadium and take over 13 of the first 22 minutes off the clock like that. It's losing football.
This is such an interesting observation. The defense gave up long drive after long drive and got themselves gassed.

But here's the aspect nobody's talking about -- the lack of a crowd.

Aaron Rodgers was bringing them up to the line with 15-20 seconds left on the play clock. A play has been called, but it's obvious he has the authority to change anything he sees fit. And he stands there, calling stuff out, barking out hard count after hard count, running the play clock down to zero (and IMO often AFTER zero) -- all without any issue because there's NO NOISE. And there's no noise because our normally raucous crowd wasn't there.

Would the Packers have beaten us if 65,000 Vikings fans were there? Probably. But there's also the possibility that instead of Rodgers drawing us offsides, our crowd causes them to false start. And there's the possibility that Rodgers wouldn't have been able to communicate effectively at the line of scrimmage.

I'm telling you guys, the lack of crowds in the NFL makes a difference. Enough that we would have won against the Packers? Nah. They beat us in the trenches. But it matters.

And by the way ... how could the Vikings D-linemen not figure out that Rodgers wasn't going to snap the ball until the play clock was near zero? I figured it out within three plays. They can see the play clock, too. Yet there they were, jumping offsides on hard counts early in the play clock. Even Anthony Barr did it, and he's not even a lineman. Tough enough when the team you're playing is better than you are ... playing stupid just makes it worse.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Texas Vike » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:35 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:12 pm


But here's the aspect nobody's talking about -- the lack of a crowd.


barking out hard count after hard count, running the play clock down to zero (and IMO often AFTER zero) -- all without any issue because there's NO NOISE. And there's no noise because our normally raucous crowd wasn't there.
Nobody? Perhaps you missed my posts :lol: or hadn't yet gotten to my response to Moth. Upthread, I also bemoan the play clock issue and how the refs allowed GB to go past zero at least 5 or 6 times, often on very key plays. It made a HUGE difference yesterday to not have a home crowd.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by StanM » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:40 pm

Cliff wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:55 am
StanM wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:53 am
In spite of our offense flashing some of the problems we feared going into the season they still managed to put 34 points on the board. I think that is enough to win on most Sundays in the NFL. Sure there are issues with the line and they are going to get better but I'll take 34 points any day.
That's super misleading tho. They went into the 4th quarter trailing 29-10. The Packers played soft in the 4th and ran out the clock.

As long as we're losing by 20pts going into the 4th the offense can look great for one quarter.
I thought of that too but only had one half closed eye on the game by that time and had forgotten how many points they scored when the Pack eased up on them. I have been a fan since game #1 in 1961 at ten years old and have refused to allow their losses to ruin my day since the 1976 Drew Pearson fiasco. I can endure a bad year easier than some but they're still hard to accept. I think this unusual year has the potential to have a worse impact on the Vikings due to making too many sweeping roster changes at the worst time possible. Most of the Zimmer era I have been more optimistic but I think a perfect storm of unusual circumstances will turn this into what amounts to a throw away season. I think they're on the right path for the future but there are just too many obstacles standing in the way of their plan for 2020.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Mothman » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:12 pm

Texas Vike wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:54 am
All fair points; I completely agree. The D's failures were glaring, I was trying to point out that the O's failures in the first half contributed to a lopsided TOP, which gassed our D, which was undermanned and inexperienced.
You're right, they did and the TOP issue spiraled out of control in that game as each unit reinforced the failures of the other. It was ugly. After the safety, I said to a friend that the game was all but over if Green Bay scored on the next possession and the Vikings failed to respond. The TOP was already getting out of control and the defense looked incapable of forcing a punt. They needed the offense to step up, put together a long drive or two and give them to regroup. Instead, the offense failed too. By halftime, I thought it would take a miracle for the Vikes to win, even though the game was within reach on the scoreboard.
The most frustrating thing on D in the first half, when the game was still in question, were the neutral zone infractions on 3rd and long. It was especially frustrating to be at home and yet have Rodgers manipulating cadence and exploiting our underprepared (w/ no preseason) DL all because there was no home crowd noise. Yesterday was just another day in the life of a Vikings fan--in all of its painful glory.
:lol: Well said.
Pretty sure this will be a long season in which we end up about .500.
That's probably where it's headed, although I hope not. In a way that would be the worst outcome for a franchise that always seems to think "good enough" is good enough. If they're not going to make the playoffs, it would almost be better if they just bottomed out with 3-5 wins IF that was enough to force serious change.

We'll see. Yesterday was just one game but it didn't bode well.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Mothman » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:17 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:12 pm
This is such an interesting observation. The defense gave up long drive after long drive and got themselves gassed.

But here's the aspect nobody's talking about -- the lack of a crowd.

Aaron Rodgers was bringing them up to the line with 15-20 seconds left on the play clock. A play has been called, but it's obvious he has the authority to change anything he sees fit. And he stands there, calling stuff out, barking out hard count after hard count, running the play clock down to zero (and IMO often AFTER zero) -- all without any issue because there's NO NOISE. And there's no noise because our normally raucous crowd wasn't there.

Would the Packers have beaten us if 65,000 Vikings fans were there? Probably. But there's also the possibility that instead of Rodgers drawing us offsides, our crowd causes them to false start. And there's the possibility that Rodgers wouldn't have been able to communicate effectively at the line of scrimmage.

I'm telling you guys, the lack of crowds in the NFL makes a difference. Enough that we would have won against the Packers? Nah. They beat us in the trenches. But it matters.
It definitely matters. The crowd is probably the most significant factor in home field advantage.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:24 pm

Texas Vike wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:35 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:12 pm


But here's the aspect nobody's talking about -- the lack of a crowd.


barking out hard count after hard count, running the play clock down to zero (and IMO often AFTER zero) -- all without any issue because there's NO NOISE. And there's no noise because our normally raucous crowd wasn't there.
Nobody? Perhaps you missed my posts :lol: or hadn't yet gotten to my response to Moth. Upthread, I also bemoan the play clock issue and how the refs allowed GB to go past zero at least 5 or 6 times, often on very key plays. It made a HUGE difference yesterday to not have a home crowd.
Sorry man ... almost the moment I posted, I saw your comments.

Yeah, totally agree. Huge difference not having a home crowd. And Rodgers went past zero several times. It was like the refs said, "Well, it's Aaron Rodgers ... close enough."
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:43 pm

J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:12 pm
Mothman wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:23 am


They needed a better TOP but I view that as a team stat and ultimately, I think the defense may have had more to do with the Vikings failing in that area than the offense did. Consider how the game started: GB had a 13 play, 7.5 minute scoring drive. The Vikes offense came out, did their job, and went 60 yards in 8 plays to take a 7-3 lead. The defense then allowed a 12 play, 74 yard drive that took 6 minutes. It ended in a goal line stand but 3 possessions into the game, the Vikings were already looking at a TOP difference of 13.5 to 8 minutes (and 25 GB plays to 8). The goal line stand left the offense stranded at the 1 and they made it worse by allowing a safety and giving the ball right back to the Packers.

The offense needed to give the defense a little rest and at least pick up a first down on that second possession but the defense had already set themselves up for a long, exhausting day on those first 2 drives. They can't let an opposing team come into their stadium and take over 13 of the first 22 minutes off the clock like that. It's losing football.
This is such an interesting observation. The defense gave up long drive after long drive and got themselves gassed.

But here's the aspect nobody's talking about -- the lack of a crowd.

Aaron Rodgers was bringing them up to the line with 15-20 seconds left on the play clock. A play has been called, but it's obvious he has the authority to change anything he sees fit. And he stands there, calling stuff out, barking out hard count after hard count, running the play clock down to zero (and IMO often AFTER zero) -- all without any issue because there's NO NOISE. And there's no noise because our normally raucous crowd wasn't there.

Would the Packers have beaten us if 65,000 Vikings fans were there? Probably. But there's also the possibility that instead of Rodgers drawing us offsides, our crowd causes them to false start. And there's the possibility that Rodgers wouldn't have been able to communicate effectively at the line of scrimmage.

I'm telling you guys, the lack of crowds in the NFL makes a difference. Enough that we would have won against the Packers? Nah. They beat us in the trenches. But it matters.

And by the way ... how could the Vikings D-linemen not figure out that Rodgers wasn't going to snap the ball until the play clock was near zero? I figured it out within three plays. They can see the play clock, too. Yet there they were, jumping offsides on hard counts early in the play clock. Even Anthony Barr did it, and he's not even a lineman. Tough enough when the team you're playing is better than you are ... playing stupid just makes it worse.
Yes! I mentioned this earlier in the thread Kapp and I dont think anyone saw it but here is my question...... was it just me or did our tech guy in that stadium drastically fail us yesterday? I watched both the Saints game and then the Rams game last night. If the camera didnt show the stands, you'd 100% think there were fans there. The Rams stadium was rocking with crowd noise when the cowboys were on offense or if the Rams scored. I dont think I heard our crowd noise go up or down one single time. It was just this flat, muffled crowd noise that was way too quiet. It almost sounded like an audience talking at an event. Our stadium was so silent that you could've heard Rodgers fart if you wanted to. Am I the only one that noticed this yesterday?
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Texas Vike » Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:05 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:43 pm
Our stadium was so silent that you could've heard Rodgers fart if you wanted to. Am I the only one that noticed this yesterday?
I noticed it too, and chalked it up to MN Nice. We need to get a transplant to take over the crowd noise switchboard :lol: .
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by Pondering Her Percy » Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:59 pm

Texas Vike wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:05 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:43 pm
Our stadium was so silent that you could've heard Rodgers fart if you wanted to. Am I the only one that noticed this yesterday?
I noticed it too, and chalked it up to MN Nice. We need to get a transplant to take over the crowd noise switchboard :lol: .
Lol I just don’t get why it happened. Like are we not doing what other nfl teams are doing? The nfl allowed every team to pump crowd noise to a certain degree. Either we were going by the book and the Rams broke the rule of turning it up too high or our tech guy was sleeping during the game. I’m starting to believe it was the latter.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by S197 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:42 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:28 am
S197 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:31 pm


I meant losing someone based on injury. Our corners are young and we lost Griffen because of the cap situation that they decided was the best route for the team. That’s a case of strategy, looking more and more like the wrong one, but that is entirely self-inflicted. They don’t get a pass for that. It was their choice to extend and pay Cousins and several other individuals. Every team has the same cap space, you allocate your resources as you see fit.

The Vikings are in cap hell and have a serious deficiency of talent. That’s squarely on Rick and Zimmer. And Zygi for extending them. We have a top down problem. Until you try and fix the top, you can bring in as many OCs, free agents, former head coaches you want, it won’t make a material difference. They’re just scapegoats to the real problem.
I feel like you're speaking out of pure frustration due to yesterdays loss.

Losing Griffen is a wash given they traded for Ngakoue. If anything, Ngakoue should be better for us long term. I'm not sure why that is looking "more and more like the wrong decision"?

As for the Vikings having a deficiency for talent. I dont entirely agree with that. One spot I will say that is true is at guard and defensive tackle. But nobody can expect rookie CBs to walk right in and be shut down corners against Aaron Rodgers. No less when you have no pass rush due to Hunter being out. This team is still very talented, they are just very young. They are young at WR, young at CB and young in other areas.

Cousins
Cook
Mattison
Thielen
Bisi (as a #3 option)
Rudy/Irv
Oneill
Hunter
Ngakoue
Pierce (even though he opted out)
Kendricks
Barr
Harris
Smith

......that's talent no matter how you want to lay it out. And a lot of it. Add in guys like Jefferson, Gladney, Dantzler, Cleveland, etc. You have to give these guys time and room to grow. You're saying we're severely lacking in talent when #1, the list of talent above proves that to be wrong and #2, these rookies didnt even get a chance to play preseason games and have 1 game of NFL experience under their belt. I'm sorry but that is just an overreaction. Are their "areas" lacking talent. 100%. Like I said, DT and OG. Outside of that, this team has plenty of talent across the board.
If you think it's out of frustration from just this game, you haven't been reading anything I've written since last season. I was already very much strongly against the extensions of Cousins, Zimmer, and Spielman.

When I say, "looking more and more like the wrong decision," I'm not talking about Ngakoue, I'm talking about the decision to put us in cap hell.

As for your list of talent, it's once again padded. Pierce hasn't played a down here. What has Irv done? I think he caught one pass yesterday. And that list seems to change all the time. Prior to the season, I'm pretty sure Hughes and Hill were both given as reasons why the dropoff from Rhodes/Waynes/Alexander might not be so bad. But now they're conveniently left off. And what exactly is the excuse with Hughes? He's in his third year and he's a 1st round pick. A pick that could've gone to a guard like many of us said should have happened 3 years ago. But he was this amazing prospect that Rick/Zimmer had to have, right? And here we are 3 years later with Dakota Dozier and a guy that looks like Asher Allen 2.0.

If I sound frustrated, it's because I am frustrated. But it doesn't stem from one game. It stems from a systemic lack of accountability and inability to put a consistent product on the field.

0-7 against Nagy and Lafluer is not acceptable. Getting embarrassed by the Eagles in the NFCC is not acceptable. Getting embarrassed by the Bears, at home, when they have nothing to play for and we're fighting for a wildcard is not acceptable. Getting embarrassed by the 49ers in the playoffs is not acceptable. I didn't expect them to win all those games, but they should have been competitive. Again, the product that Rick and Zimmer trots out year after year isn't acceptable. I know it is to you, and that's fine, but I'm simply not content with a wildcard team (give or take) year after year. Zygi took the safe approach and so here we are, stuck in this endless feedback look of mediocrity.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by S197 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:59 pm

Also Jefferson was in on 69% of the snaps. That's more than Bisi, Cook, Irv, Rudolph, pretty much every offensive player not named Thielen.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by J. Kapp 11 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:03 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:43 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:12 pm

This is such an interesting observation. The defense gave up long drive after long drive and got themselves gassed.

But here's the aspect nobody's talking about -- the lack of a crowd.

Aaron Rodgers was bringing them up to the line with 15-20 seconds left on the play clock. A play has been called, but it's obvious he has the authority to change anything he sees fit. And he stands there, calling stuff out, barking out hard count after hard count, running the play clock down to zero (and IMO often AFTER zero) -- all without any issue because there's NO NOISE. And there's no noise because our normally raucous crowd wasn't there.

Would the Packers have beaten us if 65,000 Vikings fans were there? Probably. But there's also the possibility that instead of Rodgers drawing us offsides, our crowd causes them to false start. And there's the possibility that Rodgers wouldn't have been able to communicate effectively at the line of scrimmage.

I'm telling you guys, the lack of crowds in the NFL makes a difference. Enough that we would have won against the Packers? Nah. They beat us in the trenches. But it matters.

And by the way ... how could the Vikings D-linemen not figure out that Rodgers wasn't going to snap the ball until the play clock was near zero? I figured it out within three plays. They can see the play clock, too. Yet there they were, jumping offsides on hard counts early in the play clock. Even Anthony Barr did it, and he's not even a lineman. Tough enough when the team you're playing is better than you are ... playing stupid just makes it worse.
Yes! I mentioned this earlier in the thread Kapp and I dont think anyone saw it but here is my question...... was it just me or did our tech guy in that stadium drastically fail us yesterday? I watched both the Saints game and then the Rams game last night. If the camera didnt show the stands, you'd 100% think there were fans there. The Rams stadium was rocking with crowd noise when the cowboys were on offense or if the Rams scored. I dont think I heard our crowd noise go up or down one single time. It was just this flat, muffled crowd noise that was way too quiet. It almost sounded like an audience talking at an event. Our stadium was so silent that you could've heard Rodgers fart if you wanted to. Am I the only one that noticed this yesterday?
It definitely seemed that way watching on TV. However, it's entirely possible that the Fox tech team didn't mix the crowd as loud as the tech team at the Rams game. In other words, the Rams game might have been the same as the Vikings game in the stadium, but not on TV.

From what I understand, fake crowd noise level was set by the NFL at 70 dB. That's about the level of a vacuum cleaner, or a car whizzing by at 65 mph. In other words, not that loud.

It's entirely possible that the Rams guy broke that rule. But even if he did, it's not going to approach the level of the crowd at Arrowhead Stadium, which holds the record of 142 dB. That's literally hundreds of times louder (it's a logarithmic function, so every 3 dB is double the sound pressure). Our church runs its live music at about 95 dB ... that would be hard to talk over, but you could communicate if you yelled.

At 70 dB, any quarterback would be able to communicate with his team easily. It completely eliminates any home-field advantage.
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Re: Packers-Vikings Game Day

Post by RandyMoss84 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:44 pm

I am not surprised the secondary had a bad game, they are just young and inexperienced, they will learn from this and get better
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