Vikings Message Board.Com

This video has some funny parts to it and they do a good job of breaking down the 9 sacks from the game. Sammy didn't pull the trigger, the OL got beat over and over and KOC didn't help either. Funny comment below.

Sean McVay vs Kevin OConnel is the prime example of "I taught you everything you know, but not everything I know."

That is about as true as it gets. Wait until that Ram DL gets experience. Luckily for JJM we don't face them this season.

I didn't reply to it at the time but this is a great video breaking down what happened. So glad the iOL has been revamped. Hopefully it makes a big difference in pass protection as well as the running game.

Cliff wrote: ↑Tue May 13, 2025 9:04 am I didn't reply to it at the time but this is a great video breaking down what happened. So glad the iOL has been revamped. Hopefully it makes a big difference in pass protection as well as the running game.

Yep, I think they did a good job in that video showing why both QB and Oline needed to improve. Sometimes an Oline can play poorly, and they did, but the QB still holds the ball too long, which he did.

Jackson will take a minute to significantly improve on Brandel with him being a rookie, but as long as Kelly and Fries are healthy, they will be a massive upgrade.

At QB, even in the very limited snaps we saw in that first preseason game JJ McCarthy was throwing with anticipation more times than I think I saw Darnold do it all season. Darnold needed to see a guy open to pull the trigger and it caused him to hold it just a half second too long. JJ McCarthy was throwing to guys he saw about to be open. Like with Jackson it will take a minute to get there, but I think/hope by the end of the season when you need your QB to be better, he will be.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed May 14, 2025 7:13 amYep, I think they did a good job in that video showing why both QB and Oline needed to improve. Sometimes an Oline can play poorly, and they did, but the QB still holds the ball too long, which he did.

It was the perfect storm. The QB played as bad as he could in that regard, the iOL played as poorly as they could too.

Jackson will take a minute to significantly improve on Brandel with him being a rookie, but as long as Kelly and Fries are healthy, they will be a massive upgrade.

We'll see. I'm hoping it'll be an immediate improvement though my hopes may be too high for a rookie.

At QB, even in the very limited snaps we saw in that first preseason game JJ McCarthy was throwing with anticipation more times than I think I saw Darnold do it all season. Darnold needed to see a guy open to pull the trigger and it caused him to hold it just a half second too long. JJ McCarthy was throwing to guys he saw about to be open. Like with Jackson it will take a minute to get there, but I think/hope by the end of the season when you need your QB to be better, he will be.

I think Darnold's hesitation comes from him playing so long with sub-par receivers. If you make those kinds of anticipation throws but your receiver isn't actually where he's supposed to be or gets beat then it's an INT instead.

Darnold had a long history of holding the ball too long before he got to the Vikings and while he seemed to improve a bit in that area during his time in Minnesota he regressed badly in those last two losses.

Processing the field post-snap is a rare skill that I'm not sure can be taught as much as it can be mitigated. There are QBs like Tom Brady and Drew Brees that seem to intuitively know where to look and go with the ball post snap, while other QBs really struggle to do that. Part of it is their protection, but part of it is just them and their overall understanding of their own offensive capabilities, what a given defense is likely or able to do against them, and just a feel for the flow of a given play. We'll see if McCarthy is one of those relatively rare QBs who can quickly diagnose things post snap and get the ball to the right guy on time and accurately.

I agree with the takes on Sammy. He was bad the last 2 games and that was after coming off probably his best pro game against the Packers. He gave us a solid season and only 2 real bad games against the Jets and Jags which we won. On to the next experiment and we'll see how it shakes out. At least they took a few swings to fix the interior OL. That certainly will help.

Sam is definitely not the type of QB that Brees and Brady were. For one, Darnold has a cannon !
I believe the reason for holding onto the ball so long is because his entire life, he could just wait for the guy to get open and then fire a rocket into that spot. There is a reason he was the #3 pick in the draft. That's how he always has played, such an advantage over a noodle arm QB. However, when you don't have the time, nor the WR getting open, he holds onto it too long.
The ability to rush 4 and get pressure is massive as that leaves 7 guys filling up all throwing lanes.
Last year's OL was also a joke. I expect so much more this year and moving forward. Really excited about this group.
Not going to get beat by 4 man fronts !!!
That means open lanes to throw into

IIsweet wrote: ↑Mon May 19, 2025 8:29 am Sam is definitely not the type of QB that Brees and Brady were. For one, Darnold has a cannon !
I believe the reason for holding onto the ball so long is because his entire life, he could just wait for the guy to get open and then fire a rocket into that spot. There is a reason he was the #3 pick in the draft. That's how he always has played, such an advantage over a noodle arm QB. However, when you don't have the time, nor the WR getting open, he holds onto it too long.
The ability to rush 4 and get pressure is massive as that leaves 7 guys filling up all throwing lanes.
Last year's OL was also a joke. I expect so much more this year and moving forward. Really excited about this group.
Not going to get beat by 4 man fronts !!!
That means open lanes to throw into

Why didn't they keep Darnold then since they addressed the OL this offseason? What do you think about McCarthy's arm? He strikes me as more of a Brady-Brees-type QB than a Darnold type.

Also, Darnold's career stats pale in comparison to Brady and Brees, both in individual and team terms. For whatever great advantage his cannon arm gives him, it sure doesn't seem to show up on the stat sheet.

We'll have to see how Darnold and McCarthy fare this year. I personally think Darnold is far more likely to revert to his prior level of play ala what happened to Case Keenum after his cinderella year as the Vikings starter in 2017, while I'm very optimistic that McCarthy can become an impact starter for the Vikings given the supporting cast around him both in terms of coaching and teammates.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Thu May 22, 2025 4:50 pm

IIsweet wrote: ↑Mon May 19, 2025 8:29 am Sam is definitely not the type of QB that Brees and Brady were. For one, Darnold has a cannon !
I believe the reason for holding onto the ball so long is because his entire life, he could just wait for the guy to get open and then fire a rocket into that spot. There is a reason he was the #3 pick in the draft. That's how he always has played, such an advantage over a noodle arm QB. However, when you don't have the time, nor the WR getting open, he holds onto it too long.
The ability to rush 4 and get pressure is massive as that leaves 7 guys filling up all throwing lanes.
Last year's OL was also a joke. I expect so much more this year and moving forward. Really excited about this group.
Not going to get beat by 4 man fronts !!!
That means open lanes to throw into

Why didn't they keep Darnold then since they addressed the OL this offseason? What do you think about McCarthy's arm? He strikes me as more of a Brady-Brees-type QB than a Darnold type.

Also, Darnold's career stats pale in comparison to Brady and Brees, both in individual and team terms. For whatever great advantage his cannon arm gives him, it sure doesn't seem to show up on the stat sheet.

We'll have to see how Darnold and McCarthy fare this year. I personally think Darnold is far more likely to revert to his prior level of play ala what happened to Case Keenum after his cinderella year as the Vikings starter in 2017, while I'm very optimistic that McCarthy can become an impact starter for the Vikings given the supporting cast around him both in terms of coaching and teammates.

Both of you bring up some good points. The team must be very confident in JJM or Darnold would still be here and JJM could have been dealt during a weak QB draft class. KOC said Darnold earned the right to be a FA. We couldn't pay him what he got because we needed money for FA signings. I have no idea how this will shake out. I thought Sammy was a bum before he got here. I enjoyed Darnold's play and I like QBs with a cannon. This season will show if we made the right choice.

Darnold had his first good team and play caller/QB Whisperer in KOC.
They let him go because that was always the plan. Darnold was going to make way too much money for what Kwesi and KOC wanted to do.
Brady and Brees always had a good OL. I recall seeing those guys sitting back in the pocket and carving up defenses. Outstanding play callers, play design, and rosters. Minnesota was the best OL Darnold has ever had. So I add, Darnold was able to always wait and then fire the ball while growing up, playing HS, and again at USC. That's why he was drafted so high. Those physical tools are incredible.
I believe that I heard that JJM threw the 2nd hardest ball at the combine. That's plenty of arm strength. However at IMG and Michigan, he was coached to pass, and most importantly, WIN !!!
I think we will be just fine and very happy with our QB1.

On a side note... Daniel Jones saw firsthand just how good the kid is and knew he had no chance so he left for any contract he could get.


Just found this.....
2 of the main 6, '24 draft class, weren’t afraid to test ball velocity at the combine. Here are the results along with the freak of nature Milton:

Joe Milton - 62 mph. This tied for fastest ever with Josh Allen

JJ McCarthy - 61 mph. JJ showed to have a huge arm, better than people probably realized. This is among the fastest ever.

Bo Nix was 58. Oddly, Nix didn’t take a drop or wind up. He just stood upright and armed it. Based on watching JJM and him throw together, he’s probably about 60 mph if he throws it with a wind up like the rest if them.

There are a number of years where no player matched any of these. Average starters are probably around the 55 mph mark. Joe Milton’s was not a surprise. His arm strength has never been in question, just accuracy. JJM on the other hand, recorded a higher velocity than Pat Mahomes and Baker Mayfield’s 60 mph.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Wed May 14, 2025 2:02 pm Darnold had a long history of holding the ball too long before he got to the Vikings and while he seemed to improve a bit in that area during his time in Minnesota he regressed badly in those last two losses.

Processing the field post-snap is a rare skill that I'm not sure can be taught as much as it can be mitigated. There are QBs like Tom Brady and Drew Brees that seem to intuitively know where to look and go with the ball post snap, while other QBs really struggle to do that. Part of it is their protection, but part of it is just them and their overall understanding of their own offensive capabilities, what a given defense is likely or able to do against them, and just a feel for the flow of a given play. We'll see if McCarthy is one of those relatively rare QBs who can quickly diagnose things post snap and get the ball to the right guy on time and accurately.

I think there's a decent chance that if Tom Brady or Drew Brees had been drafted and started by the Jets team that Darnold went to and subsequently went to the Panthers they wouldn't be considered anywhere near great.

Football is the ultimate team sport and those Jets teams, especially their receivers, were awful.

Its very possible Darnold would have never been on their levels, but the 2024 Vikings team was his first legitimate chance to play with good recievers and he killed it.

Cliff wrote: ↑Sun May 25, 2025 7:47 am I think there's a decent chance that if Tom Brady or Drew Brees had been drafted and started by the Jets team that Darnold went to and subsequently went to the Panthers they wouldn't be considered anywhere near great.

Football is the ultimate team sport and those Jets teams, especially their receivers, were awful.

Its very possible Darnold would have never been on their levels, but the 2024 Vikings team was his first legitimate chance to play with good recievers and he killed it.

Until he didn't when it happened to matter most.

It's really impossible to say if the QB makes the receivers or the receivers make the QB, but in my experience a QB with good timing and ball placement generally makes average receivers look better than average receivers make a QB with poor timing and ball placement look better.

We'll see how Darnold fares in Seattle. If I had to guess whether he'll demonstrate he's finally arrived or regress closer to his average level of play since joining the league, my money would be on the latter. I think he was in an almost ideal situation in Minnesota and even then he couldn't get it done on the bigger stage once defenses found a way to rattle him more consistently. KOC found a way to squeeze more juice out of the Darnold apple but he couldn't turn that apple into a peach.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Jun 09, 2025 10:33 pm

Cliff wrote: ↑Sun May 25, 2025 7:47 am I think there's a decent chance that if Tom Brady or Drew Brees had been drafted and started by the Jets team that Darnold went to and subsequently went to the Panthers they wouldn't be considered anywhere near great.

Football is the ultimate team sport and those Jets teams, especially their receivers, were awful.

Its very possible Darnold would have never been on their levels, but the 2024 Vikings team was his first legitimate chance to play with good recievers and he killed it.

Until he didn't when it happened to matter most.

It's really impossible to say if the QB makes the receivers or the receivers make the QB, but in my experience a QB with good timing and ball placement generally makes average receivers look better than average receivers make a QB with poor timing and ball placement look better.

We'll see how Darnold fares in Seattle. If I had to guess whether he'll demonstrate he's finally arrived or regress closer to his average level of play since joining the league, my money would be on the latter. I think he was in an almost ideal situation in Minnesota and even then he couldn't get it done on the bigger stage once defenses found a way to rattle him more consistently. KOC found a way to squeeze more juice out of the Darnold apple but he couldn't turn that apple into a peach.

He definitely didn't step up to the challenge in the playoffs. Of course his offensive line was also so poor in the playoffs that the entire IOL was replaced this off season.

I'd say you need both but the receivers probably matter a little more. A sub-par QB can likely still throw the ball up to Jefferson and if it's in the remotely right place he'll come down with it. Meanwhile if a good QB throws it to the right place but the receiver gets beat it's potentially an INT. What use is good timing and ball placement if your receivers aren't where they're supposed to be on time or can't beat their man in single coverage? Otherwise you can't really use the "ideal situation" argument with Darnold. Did Darnold suddenly turn into a good QB that can put the ball where it needs to be on time? Or was he throwing to Jefferson, Addison, and Hockenson?

Forget "ideal" situation, Darnold hasn't even been in an "average" situation until Minnesota. The teams he had been on prior have been dumpster fires. The Jets in particular have been terrible for years before and continued to be terrible when he left. He's had a parade of terrible-to-average receivers. Head coaches that aren't even in the league anymore like Adam Gase and Matt Rhule.

It's impossible to know how Darnold would be at this point if he had been on better teams or if Brady had gone to dramatically worse situations. I do think it's safe to assume that Tom Brady going to the Jets and starting there his rookie year wouldn't have turned that organization around.

I agree that his tenure with the Seahawks will give us better insight into "what could have been" if he had gone somewhere other than the Jets. Smith-Njigba, Noah Fant, and a 31 year old Cooper Kupp that has missed games with injury for 3 years in a row is a far cry from Jefferson, Hockenson, and Addison, but it's still much better than anything he ever had in New York.

Cliff wrote: ↑Tue Jun 10, 2025 9:09 am He definitely didn't step up to the challenge in the playoffs. Of course his offensive line was also so poor in the playoffs that the entire IOL was replaced this off season.

I see it a little differently. I think the IOL didn't necessarily regress in those final 2 games as much as the opposing defensive coordinators of the Lions and Rams changed to a much heavier pressure scheme and banked on Darnold not being able to handle it. The Vikings IOL was never that strong throughout last year and it was well-known as a relative weakness that could always be exposed with heavy pressure schemes. However, if the QB handles that pressure well by getting the ball out quickly and makes the right reads, those pressure schemes get exposed and can lead to big plays. For whatever reason, opposing DCs hadn't thrown those looks consistently at the Vikings throughout the year, maybe because they were afraid to get burned (and to be fair to Darnold, he did seem more effective earlier in the season at diagnosing those schemes and burning them), but come the last two games, he was most definitely not doing that. I think the Lions and Rams, but especially the Lions, correctly figured that Darnold wasn't going to make them pay for it.

As you said, we'll see how Darnold fares with his new situation.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Wed Jun 11, 2025 5:19 pm

Cliff wrote: ↑Tue Jun 10, 2025 9:09 am He definitely didn't step up to the challenge in the playoffs. Of course his offensive line was also so poor in the playoffs that the entire IOL was replaced this off season.

I see it a little differently. I think the IOL didn't necessarily regress in those final 2 games as much as the opposing defensive coordinators of the Lions and Rams changed to a much heavier pressure scheme and banked on Darnold not being able to handle it. The Vikings IOL was never that strong throughout last year and it was well-known as a relative weakness that could always be exposed with heavy pressure schemes. However, if the QB handles that pressure well by getting the ball out quickly and makes the right reads, those pressure schemes get exposed and can lead to big plays. For whatever reason, opposing DCs hadn't thrown those looks consistently at the Vikings throughout the year, maybe because they were afraid to get burned (and to be fair to Darnold, he did seem more effective earlier in the season at diagnosing those schemes and burning them), but come the last two games, he was most definitely not doing that. I think the Lions and Rams, but especially the Lions, correctly figured that Darnold wasn't going to make them pay for it.

As you said, we'll see how Darnold fares with his new situation.

Another thing that I saw a lot of in the last game against the Lions that the Rams copied was being super physical to the Vikings receivers to the point of holding. A lot. Basically saying "we'll go ahead and take the 5 yard penalties when we get caught because it's worth it to jam up the passing game".

Take this interview with Jefferson after the game. He does what leaders do; took responsibility and didn't make excuses. Through the interview says they need to execute better. But at the very end he kind of lets this slip though:



He quickly follows up with saying they need to execute. You can definitely see that he doesn't want to make excuses. But to me that's difficult if the other team keeps basically breaking the rules and the refs don't call it. I noticed it a lot while watching the game.

I thought the Rams copied that ideology and got away with it as well. Disrupting the flow of the plays and forcing Darnold to "think" more about what to do next (definitely not his strong suit) led to holding the ball and all those sacks.