Darnold - Stafford Possibility?

[Cliff]

I thought a 3rd was realistic. Also why I think any talk of the Vikings getting a 1st for Addison is a pipe dream.

Deebo is a 29 year old 600 yard WR making 17 million.

Addison is 23 years old with 3 years left of control on his rookie contract if his 5th year option is picked up. He has more receiving yards in each of his first two seasons than all but one of Deebo's seasons (Deebo has only broken 800 yards twice, and 900 once).

I don't think Addison is worth a 1st either, but he is worth a lot more than Deebo.

Yes to all of this.

Deebo is a threat to run the ball too so boost that up to 806 total yards though. Regardless, he hasn't come anywhere close to the 1770 scrimmage yards that made him popular in 2021 though.

Like Stump said, he's a 29 year old 1-year $17m rental.

Addison, on the other hand, gets close to 1k yards despite sharing targets with Jefferson and Hockenson. He's on a rookie deal. A 1st round pick with the potential to be a team's #1 receiver if put into that position.

I think a team planning to draft an WR in the first round may well decide to trade their draft pick for such a player rather than rolling the dice.

That said, the Vikings are an "offense first" type of team and I think they'll hang onto him for at least the 2025 season. Giving JJM or whoever their QB turns out to be as many good targets as possible.

[VikingLord]

Wins is what it's about to me.

I'd trade all the winning seasons the Vikings have had up to this point, all of the playoff appearances they've had which I believe is among the top teams in NFL history if not at the top, for a single Lombardi trophy. I think ultimately being competitive to reach the top of the mountain is what matters, not just Base Camp 1. If you aren't ready to stand on top of Everest why even start the climb? Get ready and then make it happen.

I don't see a ton of short-term thinking by the Vikings. They've had a bad draft and it's not looking great for some others but that's not the same as not trying to think long term. To some degree signing FA's to short contracts means they're hoping some rookies are able to step up.

Maybe short-term thinking is the wrong term. I'd actually characterize KAM's thinking as hopeful. He hopes he can take the 12th pick in a draft where he has two bona-fide impact players sitting in his lap and turn that into two defensive starters with a late 1st round and mid-second round pick instead. I guess it could work. There is a chance.

Or he hopes he can effectively trade away the core of his 2025 draft for a OLB/DE prospect who will be an impact starter. Unfortunately, he appeared to miss on that one too.

He's been exceptionally cavalier with his draft strategy to this point, and I think it has cost the team's potential to compete for a Superbowl dearly even if they are managing to remain competitive in the regular season.

They need to draft better but it's not as if they're not trying to do that. I like your strategy but is it really taking a "step back"? It's just a different strategy.

I think it is being realistic about the moves available to you in the draft game you're playing against 31 other GMs. And yeah, sometimes you have to sacrifice a piece on the board to put yourself into an overall stronger position going forward. It is to some degree showing a level of awareness and discipline and not engaging in speculation and hope as a justification for the moves you ultimately make.

On the flip side of that is a GM who is too cautious, and those are out there too, along with GMs who force the draft and convince themselves they're smarter than everyone else. There are many levels of h3ll for NFL GMs. Many sins they can commit as they attempt to guide their teams. But good ones are out there for all to see because their teams repeatedly win not just in the regular season, but in the postseason as well.

Maybe KAM should study what those GMs do that he doesn't. Or maybe he's stuck in the 1st level of GM h3ll where he thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.

I don't think fate took Cousins out of it at all. Them doing exactly what you said did. They weren't willing to bring Cousins back for a longer term contract and he wasn't willing to sign a 2-year deal. They were honest with him that JJM was the "future" so he left.

I wonder how much of Cousins leaving was the contract and how much was the level of honesty and respect the Vikings showed him. But it was definitely fate, because sans the Falcons there was no other team willing to part with the deal they offered Cousins. Remember, he was coming off a season-ending non-contact fairly serious injury at 35 years old. Clear eyes would suggest Cousins wasn't even worth what the Vikings were offering him, much less what the Falcons offered him. And even more intriguing was the move the Falcons then made in the draft to snag Penix with their 1st round pick, which suggested to me that they suspected they had made a mistake.

That wasn't strategy on the part of the Vikings - that was pure dumb luck that the Falcons saved them from making another horrible mistake at the QB position, which was then almost equally matched by the pure dumb luck in managing to get Darnold's regular season performance for $10 million.

But now they can show some intent here and let Darnold try his luck on the roulette wheel of amazing QB seasons with someone else while they get the answer they need on whether JJM can be their QB of the future.

I also don't think sitting JJM has much to do with wins, I think it comes from the understanding that you can ruin a young QB by trying to throw them in too soon.

I agree with Stump on this one. They have to know if JJM can play the position and the only way to know that is to let him play the position. Rookie QBs who fail mostly can't play it, although the quality of offense around them probably does matter to some degree. But a guy can either read a defense or he can't. He can anticipate passing windows coming open or he can't. He is accurate and mechanically capable of making a variety of throws or he isn't. You can't know these things without putting him behind the wheel and letting him drive.

Everything I've read about McCarthy suggests he puts in all the work. He studies the game. He's intelligent and capable and an on-field leader. I'm personally very excited to see what he can do even if he takes a few lumps in the process, and my bet is he wants to show what he can do too. If he's healthy sitting him another year would be counter-productive. Sitting him another year to let someone like Darnold show us what we already know about him would be just a complete failure of vision on the part of both KAM and KOC.

[VikingLord]

What I thought was surprising is the deal the 49ers made with the Commanders by trading D Samual and only getting a 5th round pick in return. I thought they could get more than that. Strange or perhaps I don't know the value of the position.

I thought a 3rd was realistic. Also why I think any talk of the Vikings getting a 1st for Addison is a pipe dream.

This isn't the offseason to trade Addison. If they want to trade him they should do it in the final year of his rookie deal where they still have leverage to extend him and where he is likely to be at or near his peak value. He hasn't performed well enough to merit even the slot where he was originally selected, so unless or until his value matches at least that they'd be trading him at a loss regardless. Better to keep him around and let him continue to develop and improve so that when they do have to make a decision on him they can maximize his value.

[Cliff]

I think ultimately being competitive to reach the top of the mountain is what matters, not just Base Camp 1. If you aren't ready to stand on top of Everest why even start the climb? Get ready and then make it happen.

I think a team that can win 14 games in the NFL is ready to take that next step. I'm just as disappointed as the next fan that they lost in the playoffs, but the Vikings are in fact in a position to compete for the super bowl. They're missing a couple of pieces, not a "tear down and start over" amount.

Maybe short-term thinking is the wrong term. I'd actually characterize KAM's thinking as hopeful. He hopes he can take the 12th pick in a draft where he has two bona-fide impact players sitting in his lap and turn that into two defensive starters with a late 1st round and mid-second round pick instead. I guess it could work. There is a chance.

Or he hopes he can effectively trade away the core of his 2025 draft for a OLB/DE prospect who will be an impact starter. Unfortunately, he appeared to miss on that one too.

He's been exceptionally cavalier with his draft strategy to this point, and I think it has cost the team's potential to compete for a Superbowl dearly even if they are managing to remain competitive in the regular season.

It seems like he's tried about every strategy there is. In 2022 he traded down for more position. 2023 They stayed put in the 1st and 2nd rounds moving around a little bit after that. And in 2024 they moved up.

It could just be that he's not very good at choosing players regardless of strategy.

I think it is being realistic about the moves available to you in the draft game you're playing against 31 other GMs. And yeah, sometimes you have to sacrifice a piece on the board to put yourself into an overall stronger position going forward. It is to some degree showing a level of awareness and discipline and not engaging in speculation and hope as a justification for the moves you ultimately make.

On the flip side of that is a GM who is too cautious, and those are out there too, along with GMs who force the draft and convince themselves they're smarter than everyone else. There are many levels of h3ll for NFL GMs. Many sins they can commit as they attempt to guide their teams. But good ones are out there for all to see because their teams repeatedly win not just in the regular season, but in the postseason as well.

Maybe KAM should study what those GMs do that he doesn't. Or maybe he's stuck in the 1st level of GM h3ll where he thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.

I'm definitely not taking up for KAM's draft record and if he continues to not draft well the team will suffer in the long run.

I'll put it like this: I'm happy with the team not extending KAM the way they've extended KOC to this point.

I wonder how much of Cousins leaving was the contract and how much was the level of honesty and respect the Vikings showed him. But it was definitely fate, because sans the Falcons there was no other team willing to part with the deal they offered Cousins. Remember, he was coming off a season-ending non-contact fairly serious injury at 35 years old. Clear eyes would suggest Cousins wasn't even worth what the Vikings were offering him, much less what the Falcons offered him. And even more intriguing was the move the Falcons then made in the draft to snag Penix with their 1st round pick, which suggested to me that they suspected they had made a mistake.

That wasn't strategy on the part of the Vikings - that was pure dumb luck that the Falcons saved them from making another horrible mistake at the QB position, which was then almost equally matched by the pure dumb luck in managing to get Darnold's regular season performance for $10 million.

The Vikings weren't willing to commit to Cousins long term but were willing to let him start for a year or two while JJM got ready. They were willing to stick with that strategy whether or not Cousins resigned. Him moving on turned out to be lucky considering the play they got out of Darnold, but it was a result of their overall strategy. I have no idea who else would have been willing to sign Cousins or what other offers he got.

But now they can show some intent here and let Darnold try his luck on the roulette wheel of amazing QB seasons with someone else while they get the answer they need on whether JJM can be their QB of the future.

It appears that's what they'll do. I don't think they'll sign any QB long term and Darnold isn't like to take another one year deal.

I agree with Stump on this one. They have to know if JJM can play the position and the only way to know that is to let him play the position. Rookie QBs who fail mostly can't play it, although the quality of offense around them probably does matter to some degree. But a guy can either read a defense or he can't. He can anticipate passing windows coming open or he can't. He is accurate and mechanically capable of making a variety of throws or he isn't. You can't know these things without putting him behind the wheel and letting him drive.

Everything I've read about McCarthy suggests he puts in all the work. He studies the game. He's intelligent and capable and an on-field leader. I'm personally very excited to see what he can do even if he takes a few lumps in the process, and my bet is he wants to show what he can do too. If he's healthy sitting him another year would be counter-productive. Sitting him another year to let someone like Darnold show us what we already know about him would be just a complete failure of vision on the part of both KAM and KOC.

The "he can or he can't" comments suggests a 21 year old isn't capable of learning and growing. To me that's silly. Of course he can get better at reading a defense, anticipating windows, and developing his mechanics. And yes, he can do those things as a backup QB as well.

One or two years of being in an NFL weight room around NFL players being coached by NFL coaches won't make a difference? Just because he's not starting? I disagree.

I guess part of it is watching Green Bay develop their QBs in a similar way and seeing them be successful doing so.

Regardless, the person making the decision is a former NFL QB who was in no small part chosen because the team wanted him to groom a quarterback. I'm comfortable with him doing what he thinks is right.

[CharVike]

I also don't think sitting JJM has much to do with wins, I think it comes from the understanding that you can ruin a young QB by trying to throw them in too soon.

I think this myth needs to die. If there was any truth to this, 5 of 5 healthy rookie 1st round QBs wouldn't have started last year.

Teams just throw QBs out there in today's world. They are providing entertainment for the fans who are paying to attend the games. There's no blue print to develop a QB. Mahomes has set the bar very high. But the Chief team was solid and coached well when he arrived.

[StumpHunter]

I think this myth needs to die. If there was any truth to this, 5 of 5 healthy rookie 1st round QBs wouldn't have started last year.

Teams just throw QBs out there in today's world. They are providing entertainment for the fans who are paying to attend the games. There's no blue print to develop a QB. Mahomes has set the bar very high. But the Chief team was solid and coached well when he arrived.

Rookie QBs are just better prepared to play than they once were and even when they weren't as prepared in the past, the real reason they didn't start wasn't because teams were worried about ruining them, it was because starting a rookie QB was the best way to lose 10+ games.

At the end of the day, a coaches #1 priority is winning football games and will start the players who give them the best chance to do that. Them saying "We will wait until he is ready" is just coach speak for "We will wait until he is the QB that gives us the best chance to win or the season is over anyway."

That is why Drake Maye was suddenly "ready" once it was clear Brissett gave the Pats no shot at winning despite Jerod Mayo claiming the timeline was about developing Maye.

[makila]

I thought a 3rd was realistic. Also why I think any talk of the Vikings getting a 1st for Addison is a pipe dream.

This isn't the offseason to trade Addison. If they want to trade him they should do it in the final year of his rookie deal where they still have leverage to extend him and where he is likely to be at or near his peak value. He hasn't performed well enough to merit even the slot where he was originally selected, so unless or until his value matches at least that they'd be trading him at a loss regardless. Better to keep him around and let him continue to develop and improve so that when they do have to make a decision on him they can maximize his value.

I completely agree. I think they'd be taking a significant loss on value.

[Cliff]

I think this myth needs to die. If there was any truth to this, 5 of 5 healthy rookie 1st round QBs wouldn't have started last year.

Teams just throw QBs out there in today's world. They are providing entertainment for the fans who are paying to attend the games. There's no blue print to develop a QB. Mahomes has set the bar very high. But the Chief team was solid and coached well when he arrived.

Teams do throw players in but that wasn't the case with Mahomes. He held the clipboard his first season. He didn't start until the final game of his rookie year.

[VikingLord]

I think a team that can win 14 games in the NFL is ready to take that next step. I'm just as disappointed as the next fan that they lost in the playoffs, but the Vikings are in fact in a position to compete for the super bowl. They're missing a couple of pieces, not a "tear down and start over" amount.

They're missing an established starting QB, at least 2 interior OL, and most of the secondary they'd need to compete for a Superbowl. One could argue they're also missing a starting RB.

And just to put it in context, prior to the start of last season most had the Vikings winning around 6 games. Those betting lines are objective takes on where teams stand in relation to other teams. Their odds of winning the Superbowl were among the worst in the entire league before last season started. KOC did wonders with that team, but when I look at them as they stand today I'm not sure I'd put their odds of repeating last year's regular season success much higher this year, at least at this point in the offseason.

The "he can or he can't" comments suggests a 21 year old isn't capable of learning and growing. To me that's silly. Of course he can get better at reading a defense, anticipating windows, and developing his mechanics. And yes, he can do those things as a backup QB as well.

One or two years of being in an NFL weight room around NFL players being coached by NFL coaches won't make a difference? Just because he's not starting? I disagree.

I guess part of it is watching Green Bay develop their QBs in a similar way and seeing them be successful doing so.

Regardless, the person making the decision is a former NFL QB who was in no small part chosen because the team wanted him to groom a quarterback. I'm comfortable with him doing what he thinks is right.

If sitting a young QB is so important to his ultimate success as a pro, how do you explain the early success guys like Russell Wilson, Brock Purdy, or Jayden Daniels have had early in their careers?

In the end a head coach starts the QB he thinks gives him the best chance to win. I don't think there is a fast rule about who that is going to be. My hope is that a healthy McCarthy ends up being that guy by the time next season starts. I'm also comfortable with KOC making that call. I think my base point is, sitting a young QB just because he's young is no guarantee he'll be more successful down the road.

[Cliff]

They're missing an established starting QB, at least 2 interior OL, and most of the secondary they'd need to compete for a Superbowl. One could argue they're also missing a starting RB.

If JJM doesn't pan out and they don't get Darnold back then yeah, that's definitely a problem. Upgrading 1-2 members of the offensive line and 3 or so members of the secondary isn't a huge problem as I see it. I think they'll end up with Aaron Jones again and pick up another RB either in the draft or FA. With an upgraded IOL and Darrisaw back I think that's fine as well.

And just to put it in context, prior to the start of last season most had the Vikings winning around 6 games. Those betting lines are objective takes on where teams stand in relation to other teams. Their odds of winning the Superbowl were among the worst in the entire league before last season started. KOC did wonders with that team, but when I look at them as they stand today I'm not sure I'd put their odds of repeating last year's regular season success much higher this year, at least at this point in the offseason.

And people were wrong. Instead they were able to plug in a QB everyone thought was a bust and win 14 games with one off season worth of preparation. Now they've got a 1st rounder picked and groomed for a year by their "QB specialist" head coach. He's unproven and had injury concerns, so hopefully they bring in another FA to compete with him.

If sitting a young QB is so important to his ultimate success as a pro, how do you explain the early success guys like Russell Wilson, Brock Purdy, or Jayden Daniels have had early in their careers?

In the end a head coach starts the QB he thinks gives him the best chance to win. I don't think there is a fast rule about who that is going to be. My hope is that a healthy McCarthy ends up being that guy by the time next season starts. I'm also comfortable with KOC making that call. I think my base point is, sitting a young QB just because he's young is no guarantee he'll be more successful down the road.

I agree, I don't think there are any guarantees either way. There are some guys that you could sit and they wouldn't be any better. Somebody like Johnny Manziel would likely have just partied and not paid attention. On the other hand maybe that year would have given him a little time to mature and learn. For the most part I would think it's easier for someone to absorb all of the ins and outs of playing in the NFL if they're not having to also deal with the pressure that comes with being a starter too. I think the younger they are the truer that is. Not to mention potentially getting their body into "NFL" condition.

Basically, I can see how sitting a player might not help them but I don't see how it would hurt them.

[CharVike]

I think a team that can win 14 games in the NFL is ready to take that next step. I'm just as disappointed as the next fan that they lost in the playoffs, but the Vikings are in fact in a position to compete for the super bowl. They're missing a couple of pieces, not a "tear down and start over" amount.

They're missing an established starting QB, at least 2 interior OL, and most of the secondary they'd need to compete for a Superbowl. One could argue they're also missing a starting RB.

And just to put it in context, prior to the start of last season most had the Vikings winning around 6 games. Those betting lines are objective takes on where teams stand in relation to other teams. Their odds of winning the Superbowl were among the worst in the entire league before last season started. KOC did wonders with that team, but when I look at them as they stand today I'm not sure I'd put their odds of repeating last year's regular season success much higher this year, at least at this point in the offseason.

The "he can or he can't" comments suggests a 21 year old isn't capable of learning and growing. To me that's silly. Of course he can get better at reading a defense, anticipating windows, and developing his mechanics. And yes, he can do those things as a backup QB as well.

One or two years of being in an NFL weight room around NFL players being coached by NFL coaches won't make a difference? Just because he's not starting? I disagree.

I guess part of it is watching Green Bay develop their QBs in a similar way and seeing them be successful doing so.

Regardless, the person making the decision is a former NFL QB who was in no small part chosen because the team wanted him to groom a quarterback. I'm comfortable with him doing what he thinks is right.

If sitting a young QB is so important to his ultimate success as a pro, how do you explain the early success guys like Russell Wilson, Brock Purdy, or Jayden Daniels have had early in their careers?

In the end a head coach starts the QB he thinks gives him the best chance to win. I don't think there is a fast rule about who that is going to be. My hope is that a healthy McCarthy ends up being that guy by the time next season starts. I'm also comfortable with KOC making that call. I think my base point is, sitting a young QB just because he's young is no guarantee he'll be more successful down the road.

The early success of both Wilson and Purdy had as much to do with the supporting cast as it did with them. Wilson was the missing piece and I will give him a ton of credit for filling that role. He wasn't forced to stand there and look for a guy down field. If it was empty or the pocket collapsed he took off. He was a much better all around player as he progressed but never made it back to the show once the supporting cast started to leave. Purdy? He made it to the SB also and his HC has him fitting in great with that core. He did the same with Jimmy G. That's a talented coaching crew. I think Darnold has better physical skills. When I seen Purdy play us my jaw didn't drop like a Rodgers or Farve in there prime. The 49ers just offered him 45 million a year. Jayden I have no idea how he did it because I don't watch him. I thought he would get snapped in half but he played the whole way and beat the Lions before the Eagles pounded them deep into the ground. He should take the next step and pound them this year. We'll see if he's up to it.
As for JJM I have no clue. He was a champion and seems to throw the ball well. I said the same about Jones for the same reasons. He's basically another Mullens. Shouldn't have been picked before round 5 but I never read that pre draft. I remember seeing possible 1st pick.

[Cliff]

https://www.nfl.com/news/qb-sam-darnold ... to-vikings

It appears the Sam Darnold era in Minnesota will be a one-off.

Darnold is not expected to return to the Vikings, who are now focused on other quarterback options they've been pursuing in recent weeks, NFL Network Insiders Ian Rapoport, Tom Pelissero and Mike Garafolo reported Saturday, per sources.