Darnold - Stafford Possibility?

[SunyP]

Would it make sense to sign and trade Darnold for Stafford?

1. Rams would get a young proven QB for the long term.
2. Vikings would get a short term ( 1 or 2 yrs) proven QB to make a SB run and offset the price for Stafford with the trade.

[CharVike]

We don't have the talent to make a SB run. With our junk OL we would get destroyed by teams with strong fronts regardless of who the QB is. I do think the Rams would go for Darnold and if that's the case they will sign him as a FA. Watching Mahomes, who is the best, fall apart in the SB because his OL was destroyed shows how important the LOS battle is. If you can't win that battle it's over.

[Cliff]

Would it make sense to sign and trade Darnold for Stafford?

1. Rams would get a young proven QB for the long term.
2. Vikings would get a short term ( 1 or 2 yrs) proven QB to make a SB run and offset the price for Stafford with the trade.

No, I don't think signing Darnold just to trade him makes sense. I dont think paying $40m-$50m per year to a QB makes sense for a team with a 1st round QB on a rookie deal. $30m for Darnold would be as high as I'd go. Stafford is set to count nearly $50m against the cap this season. There are too many other positions to be filled.

[Cliff]

We don't have the talent to make a SB run. With our junk OL we would get destroyed by teams with strong fronts regardless of who the QB is. I do think the Rams would go for Darnold and if that's the case they will sign him as a FA. Watching Mahomes, who is the best, fall apart in the SB because his OL was destroyed shows how important the LOS battle is. If you can't win that battle it's over.

I personally think with Darrisaw healthy the offensive line isn't that bad, but he is the linchpin.

[VikingLord]

Would it make sense to sign and trade Darnold for Stafford?

1. Rams would get a young proven QB for the long term.
2. Vikings would get a short term ( 1 or 2 yrs) proven QB to make a SB run and offset the price for Stafford with the trade.

No, I don't think signing Darnold just to trade him makes sense. I dont think paying $40m-$50m per year to a QB makes sense for a team with a 1st round QB on a rookie deal. $30m for Darnold would be as high as I'd go. Stafford is set to count nearly $50m against the cap this season. There are too many other positions to be filled.

I wouldn't even go that high. The odds of Darnold repeating anything close to what he did last year, be that with the Vikings or another team, are pretty small in my opinion. If Darnold could not seize the moment late last year and elevate his play when it mattered most, why would the Vikings want to pay him? His entire pro career to this point has been a litany of failed expectations, and how he ended last season just continued that history even if he did perform better for most of the season prior to that.

Along those lines, Matthew Stafford is cooked. He's probably still got some gas left in the tank but he was not good for the Rams last year. The fact his team made the playoffs and beat up the Vikings notwithstanding, as a QB I see very little upside to Stafford at this point, especially given what he would cost.

Just go with McCarthy. The Vikings took the swing for him and now is the time to follow through on the swing and see if they hit a home run. Drop the pretense of competing for a Superbowl this next year because it isn't going to happen, but if they make the right moves this offseason and have a good draft maybe they'll be in the conversation next year.

[CharVike]

The big 3 QB's from the NFC north all struggled in the playoffs and here are their ratings. Sammy 77.6, Goff 59.7, Love 41.5. The latter 2 both threw 3 picks. That's what is called choke play. Would anybody continue with Goff or Love after those choke jobs? Would any other team even trade for them? The answer is yes. Sammy seems to be getting the worst showing from the media/experts. Yes he was horrible but the other 2 didn't even show up and threw picks.

[CharVike]

No, I don't think signing Darnold just to trade him makes sense. I dont think paying $40m-$50m per year to a QB makes sense for a team with a 1st round QB on a rookie deal. $30m for Darnold would be as high as I'd go. Stafford is set to count nearly $50m against the cap this season. There are too many other positions to be filled.

I wouldn't even go that high. The odds of Darnold repeating anything close to what he did last year, be that with the Vikings or another team, are pretty small in my opinion. If Darnold could not seize the moment late last year and elevate his play when it mattered most, why would the Vikings want to pay him? His entire pro career to this point has been a litany of failed expectations, and how he ended last season just continued that history even if he did perform better for most of the season prior to that.

Along those lines, Matthew Stafford is cooked. He's probably still got some gas left in the tank but he was not good for the Rams last year. The fact his team made the playoffs and beat up the Vikings notwithstanding, as a QB I see very little upside to Stafford at this point, especially given what he would cost.

Just go with McCarthy. The Vikings took the swing for him and now is the time to follow through on the swing and see if they hit a home run. Drop the pretense of competing for a Superbowl this next year because it isn't going to happen, but if they make the right moves this offseason and have a good draft maybe they'll be in the conversation next year.

So if they write the season off now as a development year is it even worth signing any FA? I agree with you that the Superbowl is out of reach this season unless a few miracles happen which I wouldn't count on. Is it worth the cap to pay O'Neil or getting a pick for him a better choice and play Rouse this year. These questions will be answered soon enough.

[Cliff]

No, I don't think signing Darnold just to trade him makes sense. I dont think paying $40m-$50m per year to a QB makes sense for a team with a 1st round QB on a rookie deal. $30m for Darnold would be as high as I'd go. Stafford is set to count nearly $50m against the cap this season. There are too many other positions to be filled.

I wouldn't even go that high. The odds of Darnold repeating anything close to what he did last year, be that with the Vikings or another team, are pretty small in my opinion. If Darnold could not seize the moment late last year and elevate his play when it mattered most, why would the Vikings want to pay him? His entire pro career to this point has been a litany of failed expectations, and how he ended last season just continued that history even if he did perform better for most of the season prior to that.

Along those lines, Matthew Stafford is cooked. He's probably still got some gas left in the tank but he was not good for the Rams last year. The fact his team made the playoffs and beat up the Vikings notwithstanding, as a QB I see very little upside to Stafford at this point, especially given what he would cost.

Just go with McCarthy. The Vikings took the swing for him and now is the time to follow through on the swing and see if they hit a home run. Drop the pretense of competing for a Superbowl this next year because it isn't going to happen, but if they make the right moves this offseason and have a good draft maybe they'll be in the conversation next year.

The odds of Darnold repeating that with a team like the Jets or the Panthers is low-to-none. With the Vikings? I don't see why not. It's not like he only played well in a handful of games. He was top 5 in nearly every passing category despite also taking the 5th most sacks. I think he's got a better chance of helping the Vikings to the super bowl than just about any other QB the Vikings have access to or will have access to in the foreseeable future unless JJM turns out to be great - and healthy. I'm not willing to throw the rest of his season out of the window because he didn't play well in his final two games.

He continued his history of being a top-5 quarterback in the NFL during the season? 31 other starters didn't win the super bowl. Against the right teams even Patrick Mahomes looks bad.

Hopefully the coaching staff doesn't agree with you and thinks they have a shot to take one of the best teams in the league last year to a super bowl. Whether that be with JJM, Darnold, or whomever. They won 14 games, they should be looking for ways to take that next step in the playoffs, not throwing in the towel and starting over.

[VikingLord]

Hopefully the coaching staff doesn't agree with you and thinks they have a shot to take one of the best teams in the league last year to a super bowl. Whether that be with JJM, Darnold, or whomever. They won 14 games, they should be looking for ways to take that next step in the playoffs, not throwing in the towel and starting over.

That 14 win team finished 12th overall offensively (6th passing, 19th rushing, 9th scoring) and 16th overall defensively (28th passing, 2nd rushing, 5th scoring). While they were what their record says they were, the underlying stats suggest they were marginally more competitive than the 13 win team in KOC's first year as head coach and still nowhere near competitive for a Superbowl.

The problem with always trying to compete for a Superbowl is that short-term moves are made at the cost of longer-term development. This is how a team winds up with nearly all of it's starters in the secondary being free agents in the same offseason. It's hard to argue with a straight face that KAM constructed this team to be a perpetual Superbowl competitor, and I would argue that it will be impossible for him to keep it together as such even if he did intend that. There are simply too many defensive starters up for free agency plus the starting QB is a free agent.

I'm not suggesting they throw in the towel, just that they be realistic and look at the roster holes they have and what their plan is to address those holes so they can be competitive over the longer term. If KAM can do that given his current resources this offseason, by all means do it. If he can't, stop trying to pretend he can. Sometimes it makes sense to take a step or two back if it means you can take three or four forward.

[VikingLord]

So if they write the season off now as a development year is it even worth signing any FA? I agree with you that the Superbowl is out of reach this season unless a few miracles happen which I wouldn't count on. Is it worth the cap to pay O'Neil or getting a pick for him a better choice and play Rouse this year. These questions will be answered soon enough.

No need to write it off per se - just be realistic about where the team needs to improve and try to make moves that allow those to be addressed in a sustainable way. Don't overpay for free agents that won't stick around. For the free agents they do sign, especially those who come with lower expectations, try to make sure the team can get something longer-term out of them if they perform to the upside rather than just dumping them back into the free agent pool with void year(s) remaining on your balance sheet. Draft better and more strategically. All draft picks are not the same. Recognize when talent is sitting in your lap and don't sell a pick or picks off for relatively little in return.

As I responded to Cliff, the key is to be realistic about where the team stands relative to the league at each position and where the weaknesses are and will be while positioning the team to address those realities in the most sustainable way. Build a team that not only is capable of winning 14 regular season games, but also winning in the playoffs.

The moves they make at QB, in free agency and in this year's draft will tell us a lot about whether KAM gets this or he's in lala land and just seeing what sticks.

[VikingLord]

The big 3 QB's from the NFC north all struggled in the playoffs and here are their ratings. Sammy 77.6, Goff 59.7, Love 41.5. The latter 2 both threw 3 picks. That's what is called choke play. Would anybody continue with Goff or Love after those choke jobs? Would any other team even trade for them? The answer is yes. Sammy seems to be getting the worst showing from the media/experts. Yes he was horrible but the other 2 didn't even show up and threw picks.

All of those QBs were also first playoff game exits. If the point is Darnold isn't worse than them, so what? That doesn't justify keeping Darnold. If anything, it says keep looking, and hopefully that is what they do with JJM.

[CharVike]

The big 3 QB's from the NFC north all struggled in the playoffs and here are their ratings. Sammy 77.6, Goff 59.7, Love 41.5. The latter 2 both threw 3 picks. That's what is called choke play. Would anybody continue with Goff or Love after those choke jobs? Would any other team even trade for them? The answer is yes. Sammy seems to be getting the worst showing from the media/experts. Yes he was horrible but the other 2 didn't even show up and threw picks.

All of those QBs were also first playoff game exits. If the point is Darnold isn't worse than them, so what? That doesn't justify keeping Darnold. If anything, it says keep looking, and hopefully that is what they do with JJM.

So what? Fix the broken stuff. A different QB won't fix the blocking. Won't fix limited run ability in the red zone. Won't fix our defense issues. Never weaken the most important position on the team and sport unless you get great return value.

[CharVike]

So if they write the season off now as a development year is it even worth signing any FA? I agree with you that the Superbowl is out of reach this season unless a few miracles happen which I wouldn't count on. Is it worth the cap to pay O'Neil or getting a pick for him a better choice and play Rouse this year. These questions will be answered soon enough.

No need to write it off per se - just be realistic about where the team needs to improve and try to make moves that allow those to be addressed in a sustainable way. Don't overpay for free agents that won't stick around. For the free agents they do sign, especially those who come with lower expectations, try to make sure the team can get something longer-term out of them if they perform to the upside rather than just dumping them back into the free agent pool with void year(s) remaining on your balance sheet. Draft better and more strategically. All draft picks are not the same. Recognize when talent is sitting in your lap and don't sell a pick or picks off for relatively little in return.

As I responded to Cliff, the key is to be realistic about where the team stands relative to the league at each position and where the weaknesses are and will be while positioning the team to address those realities in the most sustainable way. Build a team that not only is capable of winning 14 regular season games, but also winning in the playoffs.

The moves they make at QB, in free agency and in this year's draft will tell us a lot about whether KAM gets this or he's in lala land and just seeing what sticks.

KAM is a quick fix for the season GM no more than that. There has been some good reads in our threads and most understand we are not a SB contender. This pitiful drafting won't give us a chance. That worries me with our last draft. Did the light all the sudden shine bright and he hit it out of the park. I also understand your thoughts on JJM and getting him out there. That makes perfect sense. But Sammy seemed to fit with us great. He was a dam good watch for me. Both him and JJM have very close skills including fantastic arms which I like. Sam has a ton of experience which is great value to have.

[Cliff]

That 14 win team finished 12th overall offensively (6th passing, 19th rushing, 9th scoring) and 16th overall defensively (28th passing, 2nd rushing, 5th scoring). While they were what their record says they were, the underlying stats suggest they were marginally more competitive than the 13 win team in KOC's first year as head coach and still nowhere near competitive for a Superbowl.

And next season they should be striving to improve those stats. Though if those rankings are simply "total yards" it doesn't mean much to me. For example, if they're 16th in yards for defense but were 5th best at keeping teams out of the endzone the 5th place is a much more important stat to my mind.

Of course the number of wins is the most important stat for any football team and when it comes to that they were one of the best in the league.

The problem with always trying to compete for a Superbowl is that short-term moves are made at the cost of longer-term development. This is how a team winds up with nearly all of it's starters in the secondary being free agents in the same offseason. It's hard to argue with a straight face that KAM constructed this team to be a perpetual Superbowl competitor, and I would argue that it will be impossible for him to keep it together as such even if he did intend that. There are simply too many defensive starters up for free agency plus the starting QB is a free agent.

It's always going to be a mix. KAM has failed to do very well with "long term" moves because he's not been good at the draft, that's definitely true. JJM is going to be the biggest factor as to whether or not they've built a team that can compete consistently for a super bowl. If they've hit on the most important position they've got a good offensive core set up on longer term deals. WR1, TE, and LT are all top tier guys and locked in. Other positions have talent too but they aren't locked in with as long of contracts. If it turns out QB is settled too, that's an offense that can win consistently in an "offense first" league.

I wouldn't feel any better about the secondary if the players from last year were locked into longer contracts. I'm glad they're going to reshuffle those players. Outside of one guy they're all easily replaceable and very likely upgradable. This is also a good season to do so. They've got a good amount of cap space as it is and the cap is expanding by at least $22m and by as much as $26m.

I'm not suggesting they throw in the towel, just that they be realistic and look at the roster holes they have and what their plan is to address those holes so they can be competitive over the longer term. If KAM can do that given his current resources this offseason, by all means do it. If he can't, stop trying to pretend he can. Sometimes it makes sense to take a step or two back if it means you can take three or four forward.

If you're not trying to compete for a super bowl you've given up and are "rebuilding" if you ask me. For the Vikings, KAM and company have to do better in the draft or you're absolutely correct, it won't work out well in the long term. They need these last two drafts to start generating results. Especially JJM and Dallas turner given how much draft capital went into getting them.

If not, then you're right, free agent moves alone won't make them competitive.

What are the steps back you would take to then take those steps forward?

[CharVike]

Our rush defense is ranked 2 in yards. Yet the better run teams put up a tremendous amount of yards. 3 of the last 6 games over 150. That tells me we are soft at the point. H Phillips one of KAM star FA signings can't hold the point. He stays until 26. Be tough marching with him the next 2 seasons.