Sam

[Tommy TarkenKapp]

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[J. Kapp 11]

So, not to be a Mr Minus.... But, this year we were playing a 3rd place schedule. Next year we are getting a much more difficult schedule.
I do believe though, that this team is playing great football right now. A deep playoff run should surprise no one.
I also expect veterans to take a long hard look at signing here for league minimums and lower contracts as they finish out their careers. I think that the environment and chance at a SB becomes more important to older players than the salary.
To be elite, KAM has to do a better job at drafting.
I think he needs to evaluate his scouting department and their hits and misses.

So, sign Sam. Remember also that this is the first time he has ever had success and played at a high level. He is still discovering his abilities.
On a side note.... How pathetic is Carolina? In 2022, they had Sam Darnold AND Baker Mayfield and struggled mightily !!!

But y’know, if we’ve learned anything, it’s that strength of schedule before the season starts means very little.

Let’s use 2024 as an example. Prior to the season, many thought we’d lose our first 7 games. Here’s what we faced, along with how the football world viewed each opponent.

Giants — why people saw this as a loss is beyond me, but I digress
49ers — defending NFC champs
Houston — a loaded playoff team on the rise
Green Bay — another loaded team on the rise, at Lambeau
Jets — if you recall, many prognosticators believed Aaron Rodgers was the missing link to the Super Bowl
Lions — obviously the best team in the history of sports
Rams — a young, ascending playoff team from 2023

According to the experts, where were we going to get a win, other than the Giants? They said were doomed to an 0-7 start, or 1-6 at best, and many Vikings fans believed them!

But now, those same experts are calling the Vikings frauds because they beat, as the pundits now put it, the last-place 49ers, the barely-hanging-on Texans, the deeply flawed Packers, the dumpster-fire Jets, and a bunch of other weak teams like the Jags, Titans and Colts.

It’s not that strength of schedule doesn’t matter at all. But every year, some teams thought to be a powerful fall on their faces, while other likely also-rans rise to become contenders.

I just try to think about it like the Vikings do — go 1-0 every week.

[J. Kapp 11]

The question is, will he do that? For that matter, will the team do it? I've just been let down so many times by past Vikings teams as I know we all have. But that isn't Sam Darnold's fault, and unlike the past QBs of almost all of those teams, I don't think anyone is going to be fully sold on him (other than maybe KOC, Sam Darnold himself, and you ) until we all see him standing in New Orleans holding the Lombardi.

Perfectly fair question.

Let’s say he doesn’t. Let’s say the Vikings make the Super Bowl but lose. That would mean 12 consecutive wins, at the most critical time of year, but a loss at the end.

Are we fully sold on him?

You know my answer. I already am. But what about the rest of Viking fandom?

I think you put it really well. We’re jaded. We’re conditioned to have our hearts broken. So what I believe happens with many Vikings fans is that they NEED to be RIGHT. They need to be able to say, “I knew this would happen.” It’s almost as though being right is more important than being happy over a Super Bowl win. We’re proud of being tortured!

Frankly, I’m sick of the attitude. Vikings fans wear that “tortured fanbase” like a freaking badge of honor. It reminds me of my stepfather — he used to b*tch about the government never doing anything for “the poor man.” Over and over, the poor man this, the poor man that. As if everybody should take pride in being poor. You know what I finally told him? “To hell with that. I don’t plan on being the poor man!”

We Vikings fans need to stop being proud of torture. We need to stop romanticizing our role as “the poor man.” To hell with that. I want to be rich. I want to be the damn Chiefs. Nobody thinks they’re poor. Nobody calls their fanbase “tortured.” People call them bandwagon fans. You know what? I’d rather defend that than argue with Buffalo and Cleveland as to who has the most tortured fanbase.

OK sorry. Rant over. I just refuse to be part of the tortured poor. A Super Bowl win IS going to happen in my lifetime. Period.

[VikingLord]

Are we fully sold on him?

You know my answer. I already am. But what about the rest of Viking fandom?

Still sold on Darnold after tonight?

He didn't throw a pick I guess, but he sure tried. There were at least two throws that I thought could have been intercepted and probably should have been.

This decision the Vikings will make this offseason at QB will define KAM and KOC's future and legacy with the organization. If they bank on Darnold, they'd better hope they make an objective assessment of him. Tonight was not good.

[makila]

We still have next week to see what happens. Last night amplified my thoughts I've said previously here about the, potential, championship window.

I don't think it's open. So that's why I don't think you go all in on the qb contract this off-season. I still need to see him prove it when it matters.

Hopefully Sam proves my logic wrong and we make a run still.

[Cliff]

Sam had a rough night, but the Lions also got away with murder penalty wise. Especially when it came to holding and interfering with receivers. It's hard to know if he would have made up for some bad throws with positive ones considering what went on.

The game against the Rams is going to tell Darnold's story as far as if he'll remain with the Vikings or not. If he breaks down in the playoffs he won't be a Vikings next season, I don't think. Then again, they were going to sign Cousins and he certainly had his problems in the playoffs.

[VikingLord]

We still have next week to see what happens. Last night amplified my thoughts I've said previously here about the, potential, championship window.

I don't think it's open. So that's why I don't think you go all in on the qb contract this off-season. I still need to see him prove it when it matters.

Hopefully Sam proves my logic wrong and we make a run still.

I agree with this.

KAM didn't sign Darnold with plans to keep him. He signed him for one year. Lots of defenders are on single year deals. It seems pretty clear that while KAM intended the Vikings to be competitive this year, they've performed way beyond any reasonable expectations. Fun to watch, sure, but this isn't the long-term team KAM is building.

That doesn't mean some of the guys on the shorter term deals won't be brought back, but it does mean that they'll have to take an objective look at Darnold's performance this year and balance the likelihood that he continues to play at the level he's played most of the year against the vision they started to put in place when they drafted McCarthy.

This next game against the Rams should help to answer at least that question.

[VikingLord]

Sam had a rough night, but the Lions also got away with murder penalty wise. Especially when it came to holding and interfering with receivers. It's hard to know if he would have made up for some bad throws with positive ones considering what went on.

There were some bad calls, but I didn't feel like the Lions got away with anything blatant on any of the 4 trips the Vikings took into the red zone last night. Those were all simple execution failures on the part of a Vikings team even more than good defense by the Lions.

[CharVike]

Sam had a rough night, but the Lions also got away with murder penalty wise. Especially when it came to holding and interfering with receivers. It's hard to know if he would have made up for some bad throws with positive ones considering what went on.

The game against the Rams is going to tell Darnold's story as far as if he'll remain with the Vikings or not. If he breaks down in the playoffs he won't be a Vikings next season, I don't think. Then again, they were going to sign Cousins and he certainly had his problems in the playoffs.

The Rams have already beat us this year which makes this upcoming game important for everyone. KAM and KOC will need to determine how they went to play the last year of their contracts out. I'm sure the goal is to win it all so I guess they will put the best guy in at QB who they feel will give them the best chance. I have no idea who that guy is because I've never seen JJM play a real NFL game. But I've enjoyed Sammy this season. He played very well especially playing behind a sive OL that didn't even have a legit LT. That makes the job much more difficult.

[J. Kapp 11]

Are we fully sold on him?

You know my answer. I already am. But what about the rest of Viking fandom?

Still sold on Darnold after tonight?

He didn't throw a pick I guess, but he sure tried. There were at least two throws that I thought could have been intercepted and probably should have been.

This decision the Vikings will make this offseason at QB will define KAM and KOC's future and legacy with the organization. If they bank on Darnold, they'd better hope they make an objective assessment of him. Tonight was not good.

Great question, VL.

Let me answer it this way.

All season long, people have been asking the question “is it Darnold, is it his supporting cast, or is it his coach?”

I’ll ask the same question about the debacle that was the Lions game.

And my answer is the same as my answer during the rest of the season: “It’s all three.”

Darnold did not play well last night. He was inaccurate, and his processing was off. No doubt about it. He was bad. But was it all him? Not a chance.

Let’s look at that supporting cast. Justin Jefferson, the greatest receiver on the planet, couldn’t break free of a fourth-string corner who “once covered him in high school.” Jordan Addison had ONE catch for ZERO yards. TJ Hockenson was short-arming balls. The best receiver on the field for the Vikings was Jalen Nailor. Yes, Detroit’s DBs were mugging our WRs, and the refs were letting them. But if you’re really that good, then you should be able to figure out a way to beat it.

Which brings me to Kevin O’Connell, who just happens to be my favorite coach since Bud Grant.

What in the hell was he doing last night? Where were all the motions and shifts and pick plays designed to keep JJ clear of press coverage? Why was it routinely taking KOC so long to get the play called that the Vikings were breaking the huddle with 10 seconds on the play clock? Hard to motion and shift when your QB’s first cadence is called at 4 seconds. And those delays were WORST when the Vikings were inside the 10.

And why in the HELL, when Detroit rushes 5 or 6 or even 7, is there NO ONE on a hot route? How many times against the blitz did the Vikings just stubbornly run everybody down the field? The Lions’ offense had no trouble running receivers to holes in coverage when we blitzed. Is KOC not smart enough to put that in as an option when he “gives his quarterback the answers to the test”? Would it kill him to run a screen pass once in awhile? The fact is that Kevin O’Connell got WORKED by Aaron Glenn. He had no answers.

As a result, he repeatedly put his quarterback in bad positions. Sam got hit a few times, his mind went cuckoo, and he got flustered. Definitely Sam’s fault. He needs to be tougher, especially mentally. But for crying out loud, the guy got drilled. And I don’t even think the O-line did a bad job. Detroit blitzed darned near every dropback, and Darnold only took 2 sacks. He just had very few open receivers.

This was a total team failure on offense. Don’t even mention the defense to me. They were fine. They were holding the highest-scoring team in the NFL quite nicely until late in the third, when they’d been on the field forever and the offense had squandered FOUR red zone opportunities.

What I fear now is that the Rams will see what Detroit did and go, “Well, it looks like O’Connell is pretty hard-headed, so let’s mug their WRs and blitz every down. We’ll get under Darnold’s skin, and that’ll be that.”

Am I sold on Darnold? Probably. But I do think at some point he has to go up to KOC and say, “Coach, this isn’t working.” You want to be an elite player — and get paid like one? Then step up and act like one.

If he can’t do that … then I’m wrong. Let someone else overpay him.

[VikingLord]

Am I sold on Darnold? Probably. But I do think at some point he has to go up to KOC and say, “Coach, this isn’t working.” You want to be an elite player — and get paid like one? Then step up and act like one.

If he can’t do that … then I’m wrong. Let someone else overpay him.

Everything you pointed out is totally valid. It was not just Darnold that bombed yesterday. The team got outworked, outcoached and outplayed in pretty much every facet. There were two 14 win teams on that field yesterday, but it was easy to see which of the two was prepared for the moment and which was not.

But all of those other factors in the world don't excuse the clear overthrows of an open JJ on two of those trips inside the redzone. Ball placement was generally terrible, and for all that blitzing by Detroit, as you pointed out, the protection wasn't terrible. Darnold had plenty of time on drop backs and just held the ball, and when Darnold is holding the ball like that the offense just stalls. That has happened all season and wasn't just last night. He just either doesn't see the field or he doesn't trust what he's seeing and the pressure ends up finally breaking through. To be fair to Darnold, he's had that problem since entering the league. When he's on, when he's dropping back and in the flow and firing it, he's awesome. When he's not, it's 3-and-out-city for long stretches of games, stretches a playoff offense simply cannot afford.

Just compare how Darnold handled pressure last night with how Goff handled it. Goff took plenty of shots too, and nobody talks bad about the Lions offensive line. They're amazing, blah blah blah. And yet Goff got hit, had balls batted, got picked off, and got away with an intentional grounding in the end zone. And yet, he simply handled things when he needed to. He found his guys and threw accurately to them when they had to have it. Totally different play at QB and eventually he wore down the Vikings defense to the point where it became much easier.

You pay a guy like Goff the starter money because when you need him to perform he's going to perform. The mistake the Vikings just got done making with Cousins was paying a guy the starter money in the hope that when the chips are down in the biggest games he will perform. He looks the part. He does it in less consequential situations and games. But when you need him, he doesn't get it done.

I just don't think there is anything about Sam Darnold that suggests he is cut out for these moments. During the regular season he was a warrior at times. He's a big reason the Vikings won 14 games. But last night he showed much as Cousins or Keenum or any number of also-rans would have at QB.

He still has a chance to redeem himself next Monday against the Rams. They'll blitz the crap out of him too and mug the receivers all game. Can Darnold beat that? KOC and the rest of the team has their role too but if I see Darnold dropping back and holding the ball for 3-4 seconds like we did against the Lions you can put a fork in them, because it won't matter what anyone else does or doesn't do. If your QB isn't firing it accurately at this point in the season you're done.

[chicagopurple]

this whole scenario isnt so bad. We really needed to see who Darnold really is. Can he take command when under heavy pressure in a playoff setting? In the past, he never succeeded at this but there was always the excuse of him being on poor teams. Well, now he has great receivers, a "QB whisperer" for a HC.....no excuses. If he falls apart again against LA, we have our answer. I would hope that ownership will have learned from the Kirk Cousins fiasco to NOT give Darnold a 4yr Monster contract. IF Darnold brings his cajones with him to LA and takes command and leads us through the post season like a winner, well then, I guess you gotta go all in with him.

[VikingLord]

this whole scenario isnt so bad. We really needed to see who Darnold really is. Can he take command when under heavy pressure in a playoff setting? In the past, he never succeeded at this but there was always the excuse of him being on poor teams. Well, now he has great receivers, a "QB whisperer" for a HC.....no excuses. If he falls apart again against LA, we have our answer. I would hope that ownership will have learned from the Kirk Cousins fiasco to NOT give Darnold a 4yr Monster contract. IF Darnold brings his cajones with him to LA and takes command and leads us through the post season like a winner, well then, I guess you gotta go all in with him.

This is what defines a franchise QB, or at the very least a QB who gets paid top 10 money - not just putting up gaudy regular season stats, not just being competitive for playoff berths, but actually performing when the team needs it. What happens in those gut check minutes and critical plays? Is the QB stepping up or stepping off?

Anyone can have a bad game, and to be fair to Darnold he's stepped up all year when the team needed him to do that. No way this is a 14 win regular season team without what Darnold showed and did, and he deserves credit for it and maybe even some deference for it. But he's also shown throughout the year that he has that other characteristic to his play where he holds the ball way too long, makes bad decisions whether under pressure or not under pressure at times, and just misses throws he should otherwise make. So the question is which Darnold are the Vikings going to get this coming Monday night, because as you point out, if it's the misfiring Darnold who lacks confidence in what he sees, I just don't see how the Vikings can pay him more than the backup/bridge money they basically paid him this year.

Nobody knows if McCarthy is the real deal either, but we will at least know if Darnold is after Monday night.

[J. Kapp 11]

Well, after a ton of thinking, reading, listening to talking heads, rewatching the game, and watching podcasts, I’ve changed my mind.

I’m not going to die on the Keep Sam Darnold hill.

If the Vikings decide to extend him, I’m OK with it. But if they decide to let him walk, then I’m good with that, too.

Here are a couple of revelations for me.

The Vikings need better interior offensive lineman more than they need Sam Darnold
Darnold stunk in the red zone, especially goal-to-go. No doubt about that. But part of the reason he stunk is that the Vikings simply cannot run the ball inside the 10. They can’t punch it in for touchdowns. And the reason is that their interior O-line stinks like cat piss. As of this moment, Blake Brandel is 85th among guards in run blocking according to PFF. Dalton Risner is 79th. Garrett Bradbury gets brutalized in short yardage. And lest we blame only the interior, we see that Cam Robinson is 71st in run blocking among tackles. When you can’t run in the deep red zone, it makes you predictable and easy to stop. Even a bunch of backups like Detroit’s secondary can lock you up. The Vikings, in goal-to-go situations, ran the ball twice … out of ELEVEN plays! But if you CAN run, then even an average passer like Jalen Hurts can have success.

Bottom line: SPEND cap space on solid veteran interior O-lineman, not Sam Darnold. But for God’s sake, DO IT for once. Spend the money on the line. Quit trying to convince people that a turd sandwich is actually filet mignon.

The Vikings losing to Detroit may have been a long-term blessing
If the Vikings would have won somehow, there would have been immense pressure for them to extend Sam Darnold and pay him a king’s ransom — no matter how poorly he played. People (like me) would’ve been screaming for the team to “pay him whatever he wants” because we’d have visions of Super Bowls dancing in our heads, thanks to getting the No. 1 seed, home field, 15 wins, etc. If Sunday’s game proved anything, it’s that Super Bowls with Sam, while not impossible, are not likely. Therefore, while he might be worth paying starter money, he won’t be worth the bag.

Do I want a guy who MIGHT be worth starter money but isn’t likely to get you to the Super Bowl? No. I don’t. We just went through that for the past 6 years.

Darnold playing poorly in the biggest game of his life makes the decision much easier.

Full disclosure: I am a sucker for redemption stories like Darnold’s
My dad died suddenly when I was 16, and I went off the deep end. I was angry at everything and everybody. I flunked out of college after one year with a GPA of less than 1.0. I ended up homeless 9 months later, living on the street in the middle of February in Iowa before my older brother finally convinced me to join the Navy out of pure desperation. I went from that dismal situation to being blessed with the most loving family imaginable, going back to college in my 30s and graduating Summa Cum Laude, having a nice career, and retiring at 60 with a beautiful home and more money than I’ll ever need.

My entire life is a redemption story.

So when a guy like Sam Darnold, left for dead as a NFL quarterback, comes along and plays his butt off for my team, I gravitate toward that guy. I can’t help it.

But it dawned on me yesterday … Sam Darnold made more money in 2024 than I’ve made in my entire lifetime. He’s going to get paid, no matter where he goes. In fact, Sam Darnold’s redemption story probably isn’t as impressive as the stories of countless regular folks. He’s gonna be just fine.

The most important thing is what makes the Minnesota Vikings better. If that means he walks, then fine. I thank him for a great season and wish him well.

Whatever the Vikings do — keep Darnold or go with McCarthy and build an even better team around him — works for me.

[makila]

Yeah my big sticking point has been... they had a long term plan they started on a few seasons back to culminate in this off season of a lot of cap space, qb prospect they went after, etc. Do you throw that all out the window now? I think if he goes on a deep playoff run, then you consider it. If not, nope, stick to the plan. I have to see it (prove it) before I'd change course personally. We have to build our roster out still. IOL is atrocious and our LOT is amazing, when he's on the field. Which is becoming an issue. Defense needs multiple starters next year. Running game needs to be addressed.

Sam has made great money in his career. He could never work again past 30 yrs old. And some team is going to give him another contract. Agreed a good redemption story is fun. He has been awesome for the nfl as a whole this year imho.