Vikings sign Gilmore

[VikingLord]

There might have been less of a market than they thought, but it obviously wasn't some crazy overreach.

If Gilmore plays well one could argue the deal was a steal.

I'm still not convinced this season is going to be a flop. The team has some question marks, sure, but McCarthy wasn't going to start anyway so while his injury sucks it doesn't change a while lot. Darnold could go off ala what we saw in 2017 with Keenum. He's playing on a one year deal and has a lot of talent around him, plus it seems like KOC is going to commit to running the ball this year, and effective running games make a world of difference for even an average QB. So I think the offense is going to move the ball and score.

Special teams look good. Maybe top 10 in the league when all is said and done.

And defensively I like the front 7. I like what I've seen from Turner so far. I like what Bo Richter is showing. The main question mark on the defensive side of the ball is the secondary, so if that unit steps up, which a guy like Gilmore could help it do, I think the Vikings could surprise a lot of people. It's certainly not a team with a lot of expectations, but a team that is hungry and is poised to surprise to the upside. I'm excited for the season to start. The Vikings face a tough early schedule. They get through that with even a winning record and I like their chances the rest of the season.

[CharVike]

This is a PP replay and the money is about the same. I expect the results to be similar. I guess PP had some good moments but nothing is sticking out. I call it Insanity. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different result. I'm sure KAM will come up with something he thinks is clever to describe it. Competitive Insanity.
PP is Pat Peterson.

The real problem here isn't that the Vikings signed Stephen Gilmore or PP. The real problem is their bad luck/picks at the CB position over multiple drafts. It's not like the Vikings haven't tried to fix their talent issues at the position in the draft over the last decade. They've spent plenty of early round picks, including multiple 1sts, attempting to do exactly that. Those players just haven't panned out for whatever reason, which has forced them to then try to plug the gaps using mostly free agency, and, as you point out, that is rarely going to solve the problem because few teams are willing to let effective CBs leave in free agency.

Over the years I've been a fan of this team they've been incredibly effective/lucky drafting at WR and RB in general, while equally ineffective/unlucky at drafting CB and OL. Maybe not OL so much, but that unit always seems to be an area of weakness as of late.

Missing on Booth was a killer. His injury history from college continued in the pros. Surprise? That's not a bad pick it was moronic. Now we are back on the hunt entering year 4 draft and it will be another trade down from a top 10 pick because we have nothing else before rd 5 and KAM will collect picks. The same BS he did year 1, insanity, and most on this board saw that as a give away. It was. Since he will be desperate it will be another give away next draft. But he will want slot flexibility so he won't go to 32 it will be 30. Now it's another year of Ingram. He can't hold the point. Wait till Lawerance pounds this guy again week 1. Sammy won't be holding that ball long. He'll throw it anywhere just to get rid of it. This Addison is a 16 yo from a mental stand point. Of course he'll get an illegal parking ticket from this latest mess up and governor KOC will give him a hug. Addi will be laughing and telling everyone see this dog still can hunt. I hope he gets the max sentence for driving drunk and spends some time behind bars. That's the only way he will grow up. He'll go from 16 to 25 in a few months. Instead of always in a $200K++ car he'll be driving some cheap smart car. Of course that won't happen.

[VikingLord]

Missing on Booth was a killer. His injury history from college continued in the pros. Surprise? That's not a bad pick it was moronic. Now we are back on the hunt entering year 4 draft and it will be another trade down from a top 10 pick because we have nothing else before rd 5 and KAM will collect picks. The same BS he did year 1, insanity, and most on this board saw that as a give away. It was. Since he will be desperate it will be another give away next draft. But he will want slot flexibility so he won't go to 32 it will be 30. Now it's another year of Ingram. He can't hold the point. Wait till Lawerance pounds this guy again week 1. Sammy won't be holding that ball long. He'll throw it anywhere just to get rid of it. This Addison is a 16 yo from a mental stand point. Of course he'll get an illegal parking ticket from this latest mess up and governor KOC will give him a hug. Addi will be laughing and telling everyone see this dog still can hunt. I hope he gets the max sentence for driving drunk and spends some time behind bars. That's the only way he will grow up. He'll go from 16 to 25 in a few months. Instead of always in a $200K++ car he'll be driving some cheap smart car. Of course that won't happen.

CharVike, you're so down on the team. I guess I understand some of your frustration but there are some reasons to be optimistic too. KAM did give up a lot of future draft capital, mostly to get Turner, but if Turner is a beast, he's probably worth it. Ditto for McCarthy who unfortunately we're not going to see. I guess KAM can be faulted for some of his bigger misses, sure, but drafts are always evaluated retroactively and he just hasn't had enough time behind the wheel yet to fully indict him past his first draft which wasn't great. He's going to get more time and hopefully things will come around for him and the team overall.

As for Ingram and Lawrence week 1, let's see how that goes. I suspect KOC's plan in that game, and for most of this season, will be to establish the run first and not leave Darnold or whoever is the starting QB hanging out to dry. Both Darnold and Mullens have been in the league long enough to recognize blitzes and know how to handle them, and I think either of them can move the ball through the air with the receivers the Vikings have provided they aren't consistently put into obvious passing situations. So I think the strategy against the better defensive fronts is going to be pound it at them and see if they can stop it. If they can, well, that's just the way it is. But if they can't I expect the team to move it and score with the best of them. They're deep at all skill positions on offense.

As far as Addison goes, I'm not sure the Vikings really need him. They're deep at WR and Addison is going to learn a few hard lessons in the near future. The first lesson will be one given to him by the legal system, and the second one will be taught when he realizes that he's very fortunate to be playing professional football and if he doesn't value that, someone else will gladly step up who does.

But in short, this season could surprise to the upside much like the 2017 season did IMHO. People are looking past this team, but there is no more Cousins, the team has a lot of talent on the offensive side of the ball especially, and I think they have a lot to prove. If it all falls apart, it will fall apart early, and that may happen, but if they put it together early, this team might be one that gives us another very memorable season.

[allday1991]

I guess put me under the doom and gloom category, I just see no point in spending money in F/A especially a 1 year deal when the team isn’t a contender. To me this is exactly how you stay .500 forever. The Vikings are hoping Darnold plays well so they can possible tag him and trade him, but if we didn’t sign Darnold and rolled with Mullens we “would have” lost more games resulting in a higher draft pick which could be traded for more capital and saved 10 million which rolls over. Same with Gilmore, sure he improves our secondary, how many more games does that win for us? Does it make us a playoff team? Couldn’t we technically have 20 million dollar for next year and a higher draft pick if we didn’t sign Gilmore and Darnold? I’m just not seeing the ROI here.

[makila]

I think at worst case scenario we bought a pick. That has legit value for a team with no picks.

[CharVike]

Missing on Booth was a killer. His injury history from college continued in the pros. Surprise? That's not a bad pick it was moronic. Now we are back on the hunt entering year 4 draft and it will be another trade down from a top 10 pick because we have nothing else before rd 5 and KAM will collect picks. The same BS he did year 1, insanity, and most on this board saw that as a give away. It was. Since he will be desperate it will be another give away next draft. But he will want slot flexibility so he won't go to 32 it will be 30. Now it's another year of Ingram. He can't hold the point. Wait till Lawerance pounds this guy again week 1. Sammy won't be holding that ball long. He'll throw it anywhere just to get rid of it. This Addison is a 16 yo from a mental stand point. Of course he'll get an illegal parking ticket from this latest mess up and governor KOC will give him a hug. Addi will be laughing and telling everyone see this dog still can hunt. I hope he gets the max sentence for driving drunk and spends some time behind bars. That's the only way he will grow up. He'll go from 16 to 25 in a few months. Instead of always in a $200K++ car he'll be driving some cheap smart car. Of course that won't happen.

CharVike, you're so down on the team. I guess I understand some of your frustration but there are some reasons to be optimistic too. KAM did give up a lot of future draft capital, mostly to get Turner, but if Turner is a beast, he's probably worth it. Ditto for McCarthy who unfortunately we're not going to see. I guess KAM can be faulted for some of his bigger misses, sure, but drafts are always evaluated retroactively and he just hasn't had enough time behind the wheel yet to fully indict him past his first draft which wasn't great. He's going to get more time and hopefully things will come around for him and the team overall.

As for Ingram and Lawrence week 1, let's see how that goes. I suspect KOC's plan in that game, and for most of this season, will be to establish the run first and not leave Darnold or whoever is the starting QB hanging out to dry. Both Darnold and Mullens have been in the league long enough to recognize blitzes and know how to handle them, and I think either of them can move the ball through the air with the receivers the Vikings have provided they aren't consistently put into obvious passing situations. So I think the strategy against the better defensive fronts is going to be pound it at them and see if they can stop it. If they can, well, that's just the way it is. But if they can't I expect the team to move it and score with the best of them. They're deep at all skill positions on offense.

As far as Addison goes, I'm not sure the Vikings really need him. They're deep at WR and Addison is going to learn a few hard lessons in the near future. The first lesson will be one given to him by the legal system, and the second one will be taught when he realizes that he's very fortunate to be playing professional football and if he doesn't value that, someone else will gladly step up who does.

But in short, this season could surprise to the upside much like the 2017 season did IMHO. People are looking past this team, but there is no more Cousins, the team has a lot of talent on the offensive side of the ball especially, and I think they have a lot to prove. If it all falls apart, it will fall apart early, and that may happen, but if they put it together early, this team might be one that gives us another very memorable season.

KOC has shown once the ground game fails he'll abandon it. Maybe that will change. Regardless we'll see what happens. 2017 took a miracle. That was with the number 1 D.

[VikingLord]

I guess put me under the doom and gloom category, I just see no point in spending money in F/A especially a 1 year deal when the team isn’t a contender. To me this is exactly how you stay .500 forever. The Vikings are hoping Darnold plays well so they can possible tag him and trade him, but if we didn’t sign Darnold and rolled with Mullens we “would have” lost more games resulting in a higher draft pick which could be traded for more capital and saved 10 million which rolls over. Same with Gilmore, sure he improves our secondary, how many more games does that win for us? Does it make us a playoff team? Couldn’t we technically have 20 million dollar for next year and a higher draft pick if we didn’t sign Gilmore and Darnold? I’m just not seeing the ROI here.

Here's the way I look at it - what NFC teams, or NFC North teams, for that matter, enter this season without major question marks of their own? The Lions probably have the fewest, but they have them. The Packers? The Bears?

Yeah, all 3 could be awesome this year I guess, but it isn't a given that any of them will be, and I think that generally holds true across the NFC.

Put another way, at the start of last season I think everyone expected the Eagles to end up as the best team in the NFC by the end of the season, and they ended up really struggling.

In the modern NFL, its really hard to stay dominant year after year. Teams that do well one year and look like they are primed to do well the following year can fall apart, while teams that don't do well one year and look like they might struggle to improve the next can get into the playoff mix in a hurry.

The way I look at the Vikings I do see the negatives and question marks, but I also see a team that has a stable front office and coaching staff with solid experience, a stable OL, lots of talent at the offensive skill positions, and what looks like it will be a solid front 7 and special teams. Yes, they don't have Cousins any more and are going to start a vet journeyman QB on a 1 year deal, but that could work in their favor if Darnold plays like he doesn't have anything to lose. Everyone knows he has plenty of talent and can play at a high level. The question is, can KOC and the guys around him enable him to do that, because if they can the team will move the ball and score plenty.

The first half of this season is going to be decisive for this Vikings team. They face a lot of tough opponents and will be put to the test right out of the gate. If they can get through that initial set of games .500 or better, I really do think they will be a team that could surprise a lot of people come playoff time.

[CharVike]

I guess put me under the doom and gloom category, I just see no point in spending money in F/A especially a 1 year deal when the team isn’t a contender. To me this is exactly how you stay .500 forever. The Vikings are hoping Darnold plays well so they can possible tag him and trade him, but if we didn’t sign Darnold and rolled with Mullens we “would have” lost more games resulting in a higher draft pick which could be traded for more capital and saved 10 million which rolls over. Same with Gilmore, sure he improves our secondary, how many more games does that win for us? Does it make us a playoff team? Couldn’t we technically have 20 million dollar for next year and a higher draft pick if we didn’t sign Gilmore and Darnold? I’m just not seeing the ROI here.

Here's the way I look at it - what NFC teams, or NFC North teams, for that matter, enter this season without major question marks of their own? The Lions probably have the fewest, but they have them. The Packers? The Bears?

Yeah, all 3 could be awesome this year I guess, but it isn't a given that any of them will be, and I think that generally holds true across the NFC.

Put another way, at the start of last season I think everyone expected the Eagles to end up as the best team in the NFC by the end of the season, and they ended up really struggling.

In the modern NFL, its really hard to stay dominant year after year. Teams that do well one year and look like they are primed to do well the following year can fall apart, while teams that don't do well one year and look like they might struggle to improve the next can get into the playoff mix in a hurry.

The way I look at the Vikings I do see the negatives and question marks, but I also see a team that has a stable front office and coaching staff with solid experience, a stable OL, lots of talent at the offensive skill positions, and what looks like it will be a solid front 7 and special teams. Yes, they don't have Cousins any more and are going to start a vet journeyman QB on a 1 year deal, but that could work in their favor if Darnold plays like he doesn't have anything to lose. Everyone knows he has plenty of talent and can play at a high level. The question is, can KOC and the guys around him enable him to do that, because if they can the team will move the ball and score plenty.

The first half of this season is going to be decisive for this Vikings team. They face a lot of tough opponents and will be put to the test right out of the gate. If they can get through that initial set of games .500 or better, I really do think they will be a team that could surprise a lot of people come playoff time.

In the NFC teams can come out of nowhere because there isn't a team that is dominating. Having a vet journeyman at QB is a huge liability. We had that with Mullens and nothing happened. We couldn't even contend against the Lions and Packers. It's fine to have hopes that Darnold will play better. It's also possible that he's a lost cause. He has done nothing since coming into the game. Just because he was pick 3 don't mean a thing. Winston was pick 1. Teams reach every year in today's NFL. I think that Lion team is stronger than you think. There D was bad but they added some talent. That team is balanced on O. You can't stack against one thing. Our OL isn't close to theirs. They have 2 all pros. We have 0. The Packer team went on a roll. Maybe it was luck. But I see a young QB that pulled himself up and had a great initial season as a starter. He's got nothing at WR except some young guns and maybe they figured it out. He might turn into a bum. I don't see that based on the contract they were willing to give him. The staff isn't stupid they know if he makes the reads ect.... I read that Jones couldn't get much in short yardage. They fix that with the beast they signed. The Bears got the best QB in the draft and added talent. They have skill players. Fields was a joke. This new guy isn't. Sorry for the ramble.

[VikingsVictorious]

I’m with VL on this one, in fact I almost posted with the same title he used on his first post above.

Look, we were DECIMATED at the CB position, and a lot of emotion attached to those bad outcomes in the DB room. We needed not only a body who can play, but a veteran who hopefully can put some "life perspective" in place for the younger guys. After losing two players in dramatic fashion, I wholeheartedly applaud the signing of Gilmore.

As for us (i.e., Kam) “overpaying” for an experienced vet with maybe hopefully one or two good years left, good gosh, why wouldn’t we have to? We’re not considered a contender, our QB situation is completely unproven, most of the team and coaching staff is fairly young. Of course we have to overpay for veteran FA’s. Some folks post like Kam has all the cards and keeps overpaying. We don't have all the cards, it's that simple.

IMHO I love the signing, for both on-field and off-field reasons. But like all signings, I'm always wait and see and hope for the best.

It's a one year deal and costs us 7 to 10 million of cap space we could have used next year. So if the line I bolded from your post is accurate why are we bothering with this year? Once again I'm not in favor or against this move. I think there's a void year also which muddies the already muddy water more.

[VikingsVictorious]

There might have been less of a market than they thought, but it obviously wasn't some crazy overreach.

If Gilmore plays well one could argue the deal was a steal.

I'm still not convinced this season is going to be a flop. The team has some question marks, sure, but McCarthy wasn't going to start anyway so while his injury sucks it doesn't change a while lot. Darnold could go off ala what we saw in 2017 with Keenum. He's playing on a one year deal and has a lot of talent around him, plus it seems like KOC is going to commit to running the ball this year, and effective running games make a world of difference for even an average QB. So I think the offense is going to move the ball and score.

Special teams look good. Maybe top 10 in the league when all is said and done.

And defensively I like the front 7. I like what I've seen from Turner so far. I like what Bo Richter is showing. The main question mark on the defensive side of the ball is the secondary, so if that unit steps up, which a guy like Gilmore could help it do, I think the Vikings could surprise a lot of people. It's certainly not a team with a lot of expectations, but a team that is hungry and is poised to surprise to the upside. I'm excited for the season to start. The Vikings face a tough early schedule. They get through that with even a winning record and I like their chances the rest of the season.

I'm almost certain McCarthy was going to start either all or the majority of the season. Even if he wasn't we still lose a year of his rookie deal and a year of his development.

[VikingsVictorious]

Missing on Booth was a killer. His injury history from college continued in the pros. Surprise? That's not a bad pick it was moronic. Now we are back on the hunt entering year 4 draft and it will be another trade down from a top 10 pick because we have nothing else before rd 5 and KAM will collect picks. The same BS he did year 1, insanity, and most on this board saw that as a give away. It was. Since he will be desperate it will be another give away next draft. But he will want slot flexibility so he won't go to 32 it will be 30. Now it's another year of Ingram. He can't hold the point. Wait till Lawerance pounds this guy again week 1. Sammy won't be holding that ball long. He'll throw it anywhere just to get rid of it. This Addison is a 16 yo from a mental stand point. Of course he'll get an illegal parking ticket from this latest mess up and governor KOC will give him a hug. Addi will be laughing and telling everyone see this dog still can hunt. I hope he gets the max sentence for driving drunk and spends some time behind bars. That's the only way he will grow up. He'll go from 16 to 25 in a few months. Instead of always in a $200K++ car he'll be driving some cheap smart car. Of course that won't happen.

CharVike, you're so down on the team. I guess I understand some of your frustration but there are some reasons to be optimistic too. KAM did give up a lot of future draft capital, mostly to get Turner, but if Turner is a beast, he's probably worth it. Ditto for McCarthy who unfortunately we're not going to see. I guess KAM can be faulted for some of his bigger misses, sure, but drafts are always evaluated retroactively and he just hasn't had enough time behind the wheel yet to fully indict him past his first draft which wasn't great. He's going to get more time and hopefully things will come around for him and the team overall.

As for Ingram and Lawrence week 1, let's see how that goes. I suspect KOC's plan in that game, and for most of this season, will be to establish the run first and not leave Darnold or whoever is the starting QB hanging out to dry. Both Darnold and Mullens have been in the league long enough to recognize blitzes and know how to handle them, and I think either of them can move the ball through the air with the receivers the Vikings have provided they aren't consistently put into obvious passing situations. So I think the strategy against the better defensive fronts is going to be pound it at them and see if they can stop it. If they can, well, that's just the way it is. But if they can't I expect the team to move it and score with the best of them. They're deep at all skill positions on offense.

As far as Addison goes, I'm not sure the Vikings really need him. They're deep at WR and Addison is going to learn a few hard lessons in the near future. The first lesson will be one given to him by the legal system, and the second one will be taught when he realizes that he's very fortunate to be playing professional football and if he doesn't value that, someone else will gladly step up who does.

But in short, this season could surprise to the upside much like the 2017 season did IMHO. People are looking past this team, but there is no more Cousins, the team has a lot of talent on the offensive side of the ball especially, and I think they have a lot to prove. If it all falls apart, it will fall apart early, and that may happen, but if they put it together early, this team might be one that gives us another very memorable season.

That's easy to say and harder to do. Hopefully we can.

[psjordan]

... We’re not considered a contender...

It's a one year deal and costs us 7 to 10 million of cap space we could have used next year. So if the line I bolded from your post is accurate why are we bothering with this year? Once again I'm not in favor or against this move. I think there's a void year also which muddies the already muddy water more.

When you are not considered a contender, getting a non-stiff vet FA towards the end of their career to sign is difficult - they'd love to go out with a winner. So the bolded above was more directed towards we are lucky we signed the guy rather than why sign the guy in the first place.

I personally have no idea how KAM, KOC, the Wilfs and the rest of the organization feel about our (real, actual) chances to compete this year. The only thing I do know as fact is that this is a business, and we have to field a competent team. "Tanking for better picks", saving money by not signing a vet FA and rolling with unknowns - those things are for fans.

No matter what, in order to continue to make money, the owners will insist we field at the very least an "adequately competitive" team year after year. Not to mention how the better players on the team might feel - think any of our better players (who we may or may not want to sign long-term soon) want us to get embarrassed in the secondary? Think any future FA's will think we are a good landing spot if we ignore weaknesses?

Now, will this signing help us win a playoff game, or simply help us not get embarrassed in the secondary and finish 6-11? I don't know, and I don't know how KAM, KOC etc. feel it's going to work. But I do know the Wilfs want to make money, and fielding an embarrassing team getting whomped by two young QB's in the division likely won't accomplish that.

[CharVike]

This was a good string. Every fan got a kick in the pants when JJM went down. That's our future and I know I like the pick. This isn't a Teddy or Ponder ect type of pick. The kid has great physical skills and the mentality. He's been through the wars in a big time program. You can't ask for anything more. Gilmore was a must sign or we couldn't play any defense. This year will be a struggle but others said it Dallas could be a great player. There's no doubt about that. I do believe Flores had input for him and KAM made the move. I can't fault him for his draft dealings this year. He got 2 great prospects. That don't happen very often. We will have Dallas and the kid from last year at LBer. That's 2 nice building blocks for that group. I can get negative and it blows that we are in the position we are but we might have a couple studs. Studs make every player around them better.

[VikingsVictorious]

It's a one year deal and costs us 7 to 10 million of cap space we could have used next year. So if the line I bolded from your post is accurate why are we bothering with this year? Once again I'm not in favor or against this move. I think there's a void year also which muddies the already muddy water more.

When you are not considered a contender, getting a non-stiff vet FA towards the end of their career to sign is difficult - they'd love to go out with a winner. So the bolded above was more directed towards we are lucky we signed the guy rather than why sign the guy in the first place.

I personally have no idea how KAM, KOC, the Wilfs and the rest of the organization feel about our (real, actual) chances to compete this year. The only thing I do know as fact is that this is a business, and we have to field a competent team. "Tanking for better picks", saving money by not signing a vet FA and rolling with unknowns - those things are for fans.

No matter what, in order to continue to make money, the owners will insist we field at the very least an "adequately competitive" team year after year. Not to mention how the better players on the team might feel - think any of our better players (who we may or may not want to sign long-term soon) want us to get embarrassed in the secondary? Think any future FA's will think we are a good landing spot if we ignore weaknesses?

Now, will this signing help us win a playoff game, or simply help us not get embarrassed in the secondary and finish 6-11? I don't know, and I don't know how KAM, KOC etc. feel it's going to work. But I do know the Wilfs want to make money, and fielding an embarrassing team getting whomped by two young QB's in the division likely won't accomplish that.

Yeah I knew your point for us not being a contender. I just wanted to show the other side of that coin. As I said I'm neither for or against the signing, I just wanted to take a critical look at the signing. Have the incentives been revealed yet. If it's more likely a $7 million deal I lean favorably toward it. If it really is $10 million I'm mildly against it.

[Thaumaturgist]

When you are not considered a contender, getting a non-stiff vet FA towards the end of their career to sign is difficult - they'd love to go out with a winner. So the bolded above was more directed towards we are lucky we signed the guy rather than why sign the guy in the first place.

I personally have no idea how KAM, KOC, the Wilfs and the rest of the organization feel about our (real, actual) chances to compete this year. The only thing I do know as fact is that this is a business, and we have to field a competent team. "Tanking for better picks", saving money by not signing a vet FA and rolling with unknowns - those things are for fans.

No matter what, in order to continue to make money, the owners will insist we field at the very least an "adequately competitive" team year after year. Not to mention how the better players on the team might feel - think any of our better players (who we may or may not want to sign long-term soon) want us to get embarrassed in the secondary? Think any future FA's will think we are a good landing spot if we ignore weaknesses?

Now, will this signing help us win a playoff game, or simply help us not get embarrassed in the secondary and finish 6-11? I don't know, and I don't know how KAM, KOC etc. feel it's going to work. But I do know the Wilfs want to make money, and fielding an embarrassing team getting whomped by two young QB's in the division likely won't accomplish that.

Yeah I knew your point for us not being a contender. I just wanted to show the other side of that coin. As I said I'm neither for or against the signing, I just wanted to take a critical look at the signing. Have the incentives been revealed yet. If it's more likely a $7 million deal I lean favorably toward it. If it really is $10 million I'm mildly against it.

See, I don't get that take. You'd rather pay 7 million, and he played poorly enough to not earn incentives? Explain it to me.