Latest on Kirk’s decision to leave Minnesota

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CharVike
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Re: Latest on Kirk’s decision to leave Minnesota

Post by CharVike »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 6:40 am The entire thing is the very definition of irony.

Look, I feel bad about what happened to him last year. He was playing elite football, and the Achilles injury was the kind of thing you don’t wish on your worst enemy.

But I don’t feel one bit sorry for Kirk overall. He’s had a long career in the NFL. He’s made nearly $300 million with another $100 million coming, guaranteed, yet he’s won a single playoff game in 12 years. He’ll never get a vote for Canton unless they create a special Lifetime Negotiator award.

When it’s all said and done, here’s a guy who hasn’t had a serious threat to his position on any roster since he was teammates with RGIII, bellyaching over his new team bringing in a first-round rookie. Color me a deep shade of “I Don’t Care.”

I’m over Kirk. Maybe its just me, but it was a pretty easy breakup.
Of course he's not a HOF candidate he never won a championship. Only champions make it. Wait a few losers are there. Sorry being a winner means nothing. It's a stat deal. Except if it's one of my all time favorites Paul Krause who is the all time interception leader only made it after decades of eligibility and then some special vote or some other nonsense. It's not a stat deal either. I guess it's a popularity contest. So he's out. Maybe he will make our own Vikings Ring of Honor board or Ring of Losers whatever you prefer. He's No 2 on our all time TD passing list with 171 in 88 games. Fran is No 1 with 239 in 177 games.
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Re: Latest on Kirk’s decision to leave Minnesota

Post by Tommy TarkenKapp »

CharVike wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 5:56 am
VikingLord wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 6:18 pm

I thought KAM would cut ties with Kirk and start looking for his franchise QB when he first took the GM job with the Vikings. That was when there was a natural break in the contract situation IIRC and would have been the best time for the team to change direction at QB. When KAM extended him for another 2 years I figured he didn't feel like it was the right time to make a move at QB and/or he wanted to make a smoother, more considered move at the position or the Wilfs were pressuring him or all three. And then this year it became obvious that although the Vikings intended to make a move at QB over the longer term, KAM apparently still wanted to keep Cousins around over the shorter term.

But like you, I look at that playoff record where it really mattered and wondered why KAM kept Cousins around at all. The other games where Cousins consistently shrank in the moments where he needed to shine. Yeah, he could play well at times, but he never seemed to play well when the Vikings most needed him to be the difference.

For me, breaking up with Cousins wasn't hard at all. He was and always will be fool's gold. And if anything, the Falcons drafting Penix tells me even they know that. While they bet a lot on Cousins even they couldn't pass up the chance to draft someone who might actually be capable of changing the outcome of a game at QB. Drafting an older rookie QB like Penix with the 8th pick in a draft and signing him to a 4-5 year rookie deal just after inking an older vet QB coming off a major injury to a 4 year deal is NOT hedging for the future even if that is what they are saying publicly. That is saying "we think we spotted a major talent at QB and couldn't pass him up". Penix will get his chances to win that starting job, and if he shows up Cousins, Cousins will be sitting on the outside looking in even with all that guaranteed money in his deal.

I openly wondered on this board a few months ago whether Cousins would ever regret making the move to Atlanta. Even though I am happy he is no longer the Vikings QB, he had a good thing going here even if it appeared to finally be coming to an end. I thought if Cousins did regret making the move at some point it would be down the road a bit, but it appears like that day of reckoning might have come before he even played a down for the Falcons.
The only playoff win he ever had it was a road dog win and as usual Zim's D didn't feel like playing. That's only one example and there are others. After watching us pass on Rodgers twice during that draft and drafting nothing I think the Falcons made a smart move. If he was the top player on their board you can't skip that. Obviously he was ranked higher than JJM or Nix on their board. IMO I wouldn't even draft Penix just based on his college history and his choke job in the champ game. But I'm not a scout. But if Penix is a true superstar QB they are set for the next 15 years at the most important position. Cousins can ride the bench until he packs it in and then they can give Penix a monster deal. The Falcons were sick of having nothing at QB and zero chance of getting the playoff revenue so they stacked the roster with a good vet and a potential superstar rookie. They can't compete with that 49er team for a SB berth regardless of QB because they lack the overall talent to make that happen. But they do have a better chance of making the playoffs.
It's somewhat cliché to build Kirk up by tearing another aspect of the team down. But, try to be just a little bit objective in your assessment on this one. I'm no Zimmer apologist by any stretch. I'm glad he & Spielman were shown the door. But, the Saints were 13-3. Their offense was top 10 in yards & top 5 in points. Zim's D held them to 20 points. Produced 2 turnovers, 3 sacks & held the Saints to 4-11 on 3rd down conversions. The Vikes' defense did a damn nice job on one of the top offenses in the league.

If you want to harp on Zim for anything in that game it should probably be his nasty habit of playing prevent offense too early in games. The Vikes were up 20-10 going into the 4th quarter. And Zim went in full prevent mode. Conservative offense & punting.

Oh...and Kirk did play damn good too. That OT bomb to Thielen that set up the winning TD in OT was a thing of beauty.
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Re: Latest on Kirk’s decision to leave Minnesota

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Tommy TarkenKapp wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 6:26 am
CharVike wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 5:56 am
The only playoff win he ever had it was a road dog win and as usual Zim's D didn't feel like playing. That's only one example and there are others. After watching us pass on Rodgers twice during that draft and drafting nothing I think the Falcons made a smart move. If he was the top player on their board you can't skip that. Obviously he was ranked higher than JJM or Nix on their board. IMO I wouldn't even draft Penix just based on his college history and his choke job in the champ game. But I'm not a scout. But if Penix is a true superstar QB they are set for the next 15 years at the most important position. Cousins can ride the bench until he packs it in and then they can give Penix a monster deal. The Falcons were sick of having nothing at QB and zero chance of getting the playoff revenue so they stacked the roster with a good vet and a potential superstar rookie. They can't compete with that 49er team for a SB berth regardless of QB because they lack the overall talent to make that happen. But they do have a better chance of making the playoffs.
It's somewhat cliché to build Kirk up by tearing another aspect of the team down. But, try to be just a little bit objective in your assessment on this one. I'm no Zimmer apologist by any stretch. I'm glad he & Spielman were shown the door. But, the Saints were 13-3. Their offense was top 10 in yards & top 5 in points. Zim's D held them to 20 points. Produced 2 turnovers, 3 sacks & held the Saints to 4-11 on 3rd down conversions. The Vikes' defense did a damn nice job on one of the top offenses in the league.

If you want to harp on Zim for anything in that game it should probably be his nasty habit of playing prevent offense too early in games. The Vikes were up 20-10 going into the 4th quarter. And Zim went in full prevent mode. Conservative offense & punting.

Oh...and Kirk did play damn good too. That OT bomb to Thielen that set up the winning TD in OT was a thing of beauty.
Zim's D never did play lights out in the playoffs. Case Keenum's year he surrendered a huge halftime lead and we then had a miracle win to make the champ game. I thought we were SB bound. Everything was breaking our way. A bum QB and No 1 D. Of course he let Foles of all QBs destroy his great D. But I do agree with you Zim's D did play better in that Saint game than I give credit for. Holding a team to 20 is a good not great job on the road. The following week he let that 49er team do whatever they wanted. You can't win that way in a winner takes all event. That was a good read you just posted. Thanks.
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Re: Latest on Kirk’s decision to leave Minnesota

Post by Tommy TarkenKapp »

CharVike wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 7:08 am
Tommy TarkenKapp wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 6:26 am

It's somewhat cliché to build Kirk up by tearing another aspect of the team down. But, try to be just a little bit objective in your assessment on this one. I'm no Zimmer apologist by any stretch. I'm glad he & Spielman were shown the door. But, the Saints were 13-3. Their offense was top 10 in yards & top 5 in points. Zim's D held them to 20 points. Produced 2 turnovers, 3 sacks & held the Saints to 4-11 on 3rd down conversions. The Vikes' defense did a damn nice job on one of the top offenses in the league.

If you want to harp on Zim for anything in that game it should probably be his nasty habit of playing prevent offense too early in games. The Vikes were up 20-10 going into the 4th quarter. And Zim went in full prevent mode. Conservative offense & punting.

Oh...and Kirk did play damn good too. That OT bomb to Thielen that set up the winning TD in OT was a thing of beauty.
Zim's D never did play lights out in the playoffs. Case Keenum's year he surrendered a huge halftime lead and we then had a miracle win to make the champ game. I thought we were SB bound. Everything was breaking our way. A bum QB and No 1 D. Of course he let Foles of all QBs destroy his great D. But I do agree with you Zim's D did play better in that Saint game than I give credit for. Holding a team to 20 is a good not great job on the road. The following week he let that 49er team do whatever they wanted. You can't win that way in a winner takes all event. That was a good read you just posted. Thanks.
Frickin' Nick Foles!! The Vikings never have that kind of luck. A back-up QB catching fire in the playoffs. Good for him though. I just wish that could happen to the Vikings just once. One Super Bowl Championship is all I ask. I'm not greedy.
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Re: Latest on Kirk’s decision to leave Minnesota

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VikingLord wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 6:27 pm
CharVike wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 12:35 pm
Green Bay could go backwards. But they are young and did improve as the year progressed so it don't point towards that. They let Jones go and signed the younger Jacobs. He had 1600 yards 2 years ago and was an all pro. A guy I forgot was D.J. Wonnum he had 8 sacks for us and he's gone also.
I'm not sold on Jordan Love being all that good. The last time I saw a QB throw that many jump passes was when Ponder was the QB of the Vikings. He had decent stats but he doesn't strike me as a future star.

If Caleb Williams works out the Bears will get very good very fast. However, the track record for QBs taken first overall hasn't been all that great, and while Williams is great off script, that can become a huge liability too in the pros. We'll have to see how that works out for the Bears. The Lions are the only team in the North that can comfortably say they've arrived and have the sort of positional stability and track record to indicate they should be good again this year. Although I'm still not sold on Dan Campbell. He reminds me a lot of Mike Tice who could certainly relate to his players and knew the game, but was too driven by emotional responses in games and struggled as a tactician against better opponents.

For the Vikings, QB is THE key. If either Darnold plays up to his ceiling or McCarthy comes in and wows out of the gate, I think the Vikings should be right in the mix. They certainly still have substantial offensive firepower, I think the defense will be better than last year, and KOC has his legs fully under him now. He's got the young, high character QB he can coach up and mold. If QB doesn't pan out for the Vikings this year I'll be looking for evidence of McCarthy's emergence.
I wasn't sold either but part of that may have been seeing HOF QB play from that team for the majority of the time I've been a fan. The 1st game last year against us he looked bad but he made a nice turnaround in the rematch. He had a good season with a bunch of young WRs who he is growing with. I think that's a positive for him and them. I hate posting that but I feel it's true. The track record for 1st QBs taken isn't good because they are picked by teams with real bad talent and sometimes bad coaching. Luck was placed is the worst situation possible. They could never build a good OL. IMO that's a must have. Aikman hit the perfect spot and was a winner. Like all winning QBs it took plenty of talent around him to make it happen including in his case a dominate OL.
Caleb was the 1st overall pick and was viewed that way for a couple seasons. Like all of them there will be growing pains. But the Bears have tried to stack the skill players also which should help. They have talent at WR. Some proven and some just starting out.
The Lions have shown they are good. Their D has problems but they have good O talent. They played good ball in the playoffs. No team beat the crap out of them and made them an embarrassment. That shows a very good core with a group that will play hard and try to win. Just the opposite of our history and playoff embarrassments at the champ game level. Outside of 2009 of course. But that team was stacked with talent and a HOF QB playing on his last leg.
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Re: Latest on Kirk’s decision to leave Minnesota

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Tommy TarkenKapp wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 7:37 am Frickin' Nick Foles!! The Vikings never have that kind of luck. A back-up QB catching fire in the playoffs. Good for him though. I just wish that could happen to the Vikings just once. One Super Bowl Championship is all I ask. I'm not greedy.
One could argue that it did happen to the Vikings that same year Nick Foles sold his soul to the devil to have the playoff performance he ended up having. Case Keenum was a little-regarded journeyman 3rd-string QB who ended up being thrust into the starting role and had an incredible year leading the Vikings into that game against Foles and the Eagles. While Foles ended up being the better QB in the playoffs, Keenum's season could only be described as a remarkable deviation from his career to that point. I agree with you it would have been nice for Keenum's good fortune to continue in the playoffs, but I'm not sure the Vikings should have been anywhere near the playoffs that year given how it started with their QBs. I mean, look at this last season as a case-in-point. Cousins goes out and it honestly should have fallen apart immediately for them, but it looked like they might have pulled a rabbit out of the hat with Dobbs for a bit there until it completely imploded. In that 2017 season, that implosion probably should have happened right away and lasted most of the season, but Keenum's improbable performance didn't just stave off that implosion - he actually ended up getting them to the conference championship game.

Funny how both Foles and Keenum just faded away after that. Both went to new teams and pretty much did nothing.
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Re: Latest on Kirk’s decision to leave Minnesota

Post by Tommy TarkenKapp »

VikingLord wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 4:51 pm
Tommy TarkenKapp wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 7:37 am Frickin' Nick Foles!! The Vikings never have that kind of luck. A back-up QB catching fire in the playoffs. Good for him though. I just wish that could happen to the Vikings just once. One Super Bowl Championship is all I ask. I'm not greedy.
One could argue that it did happen to the Vikings that same year Nick Foles sold his soul to the devil to have the playoff performance he ended up having. Case Keenum was a little-regarded journeyman 3rd-string QB who ended up being thrust into the starting role and had an incredible year leading the Vikings into that game against Foles and the Eagles. While Foles ended up being the better QB in the playoffs, Keenum's season could only be described as a remarkable deviation from his career to that point. I agree with you it would have been nice for Keenum's good fortune to continue in the playoffs, but I'm not sure the Vikings should have been anywhere near the playoffs that year given how it started with their QBs. I mean, look at this last season as a case-in-point. Cousins goes out and it honestly should have fallen apart immediately for them, but it looked like they might have pulled a rabbit out of the hat with Dobbs for a bit there until it completely imploded. In that 2017 season, that implosion probably should have happened right away and lasted most of the season, but Keenum's improbable performance didn't just stave off that implosion - he actually ended up getting them to the conference championship game.

Funny how both Foles and Keenum just faded away after that. Both went to new teams and pretty much did nothing.
Yeah, luck was on our side for a good portion of the 2017 regular season. And not just Case Keenum. There was a laundry list of mediocre to poor QBs that Zim's defense got to play against as well. That 2017 #1 defensive ranking was built on some of those mediocre, opposing QBs. That defense was a bit of a paper tiger really. Brees & the Saints pretty much exposed that defense in the 2nd half of the Divisional Playoff game. And Philly just down right embarrassed that defense the entire NFC Championship game.
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Re: Latest on Kirk’s decision to leave Minnesota

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Reports coming out now have Kirk making peace with the selection of Penix by the Falcoms.

Kirk Cousins insists he isn\'t angry with the Atlanta Falcons for drafting Michael Penix, Jr.

Cousins was asked on the \'Bussin\' with the Boys\' podcast if there\'s beef between him and the Falcons over the draft.

\"No, I don\'t think there can be. I don\'t think it\'s helpful,\" the quarterback said.

\"We\'re trying to win the Super Bowl and it\'s hard enough. So let\'s all be on the same page and let\'s go try to win the Super Bowl.\"

Via \\\'Bussin\\\' with the Boys\\\' Podcast


IMO Kirk had a bit of a right to be upset over the Falcons using pick 8 to draft his replacement when they could have used it on Dallas Turner to help them win now.
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Re: Latest on Kirk’s decision to leave Minnesota

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VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 9:09 pm Reports coming out now have Kirk making peace with the selection of Penix by the Falcoms.

Kirk Cousins insists he isn\'t angry with the Atlanta Falcons for drafting Michael Penix, Jr.

Cousins was asked on the \'Bussin\' with the Boys\' podcast if there\'s beef between him and the Falcons over the draft.

\"No, I don\'t think there can be. I don\'t think it\'s helpful,\" the quarterback said.

\"We\'re trying to win the Super Bowl and it\'s hard enough. So let\'s all be on the same page and let\'s go try to win the Super Bowl.\"

Via \\\'Bussin\\\' with the Boys\\\' Podcast


IMO Kirk had a bit of a right to be upset over the Falcons using pick 8 to draft his replacement when they could have used it on Dallas Turner to help them win now.
He basically said the only thing he could say. If he said "our defense sucks and these people have done nothing to help improve it" I don't think the Falcons would be too happy. I'm sure there's language in the contract that prohibits that unless you want it voided. Then he's out 100 million + and nobody is that dumb. Plus they have another star they can plug in which will satisfy the fan base and local media. That would improve the value of their product from the revenue side. Sell many tee shirts and other BS. Then when they guy fades away pick another.
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Re: Latest on Kirk’s decision to leave Minnesota

Post by Tommy TarkenKapp »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 9:09 pm Reports coming out now have Kirk making peace with the selection of Penix by the Falcoms.



So let\'s all be on the same page



IMO Kirk had a bit of a right to be upset over the Falcons using pick 8 to draft his replacement when they could have used it on Dallas Turner to help them win now.
That quote right there is a far cry from the quote he made at his initial presser when he first signed with the Falcons. I believe it went something like "championships can be won when the GM, Coach & QB are on the same page". He seemed to imply that they were on the same page at the time. And now it's "lets all be on the same page".

Regardless, he has no legitimate gripe. It's not all about Kirk. And I don't believe that Cousins thinks it is all about him. It's about the team. It's about the present & the future. Maybe the current Falcons can succeed where the 2009/2010 Vikings' failed. And I don't mean a trip to the Super Bowl. I mean going all in on an aging vet QB (Favre/Cousins) & then having no legit starting QB to fall back on if & when age catches up with the aging QB (Favre/Cousins).

I can't fault the Falcons for being prepared for the future. But, I can fault the Falcons for hastily overpaying a 36 year old QB coming off an Achilles tear before doing their due diligence on picking a QB at #8. Was there really that big of a market for Cousins that they had to sign him within the first 30 minutes of free agency? Who was their competition for Kirk? The Vikings? I think it was pretty clear the Vikings were willing to move on from Kirk unless they got him on a team friendly deal. The Vikings showed patience. The Falcons treated it like the "Buy It Now" option on eBay. You have to wonder if they might end up with buyer's remorse somewhere down the line?

But, winning forgives all. If Kirk plays like his usual self there is a strong chance that the Falcons win the NFC South & host a playoff game. And if 2022 & 2023 are any barometer for what it might take to win the South. A little over .500 ball should do it. The 2022 NFC South Division Champion was 8-9. The 2023 Division Champion was 9-8.
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Re: Latest on Kirk’s decision to leave Minnesota

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Tommy TarkenKapp wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 6:58 pm
VikingLord wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 4:51 pm

One could argue that it did happen to the Vikings that same year Nick Foles sold his soul to the devil to have the playoff performance he ended up having. Case Keenum was a little-regarded journeyman 3rd-string QB who ended up being thrust into the starting role and had an incredible year leading the Vikings into that game against Foles and the Eagles. While Foles ended up being the better QB in the playoffs, Keenum's season could only be described as a remarkable deviation from his career to that point. I agree with you it would have been nice for Keenum's good fortune to continue in the playoffs, but I'm not sure the Vikings should have been anywhere near the playoffs that year given how it started with their QBs. I mean, look at this last season as a case-in-point. Cousins goes out and it honestly should have fallen apart immediately for them, but it looked like they might have pulled a rabbit out of the hat with Dobbs for a bit there until it completely imploded. In that 2017 season, that implosion probably should have happened right away and lasted most of the season, but Keenum's improbable performance didn't just stave off that implosion - he actually ended up getting them to the conference championship game.

Funny how both Foles and Keenum just faded away after that. Both went to new teams and pretty much did nothing.
Yeah, luck was on our side for a good portion of the 2017 regular season. And not just Case Keenum. There was a laundry list of mediocre to poor QBs that Zim's defense got to play against as well. That 2017 #1 defensive ranking was built on some of those mediocre, opposing QBs. That defense was a bit of a paper tiger really. Brees & the Saints pretty much exposed that defense in the 2nd half of the Divisional Playoff game. And Philly just down right embarrassed that defense the entire NFC Championship game.
Zim's defense always thrived on the mediocre and bottom feeder teams. That's one reason why he won many games. That game against the Lions when we sacked Stafford 10 times and beat him to a pulp is a great example. That was the good old Lions. Now they have one of the top OLs so it's a different story. That 49er playoff game when they pounded the rock for 186 yards was another joke. Dominated at the point. How is it even possible to give up that many yards rushing for a playoff team? They folded. The game that defined Zim's HC career for me was his first playoff loss 10-9 to the Hawks. It was brutal weather conditions which eliminated much of the offense. Teddy drove us down the field for the GW FG attempt and of course Walsh hooked a 22 yarder for the miss. It's not true but I think every loss was on a miss FG attempt under Zim. That was his early 70s style of football. The O only has 2 jobs. Burn the clock and get into FG range. That's why he always liked having a stiff at QB. Made his D look more important. He forgot the dominate J Tucker type of kicker to make his vision work.
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Re: Latest on Kirk’s decision to leave Minnesota

Post by Tommy TarkenKapp »

CharVike wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 8:19 am
Tommy TarkenKapp wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 6:58 pm

Yeah, luck was on our side for a good portion of the 2017 regular season. And not just Case Keenum. There was a laundry list of mediocre to poor QBs that Zim's defense got to play against as well. That 2017 #1 defensive ranking was built on some of those mediocre, opposing QBs. That defense was a bit of a paper tiger really. Brees & the Saints pretty much exposed that defense in the 2nd half of the Divisional Playoff game. And Philly just down right embarrassed that defense the entire NFC Championship game.
Zim's defense always thrived on the mediocre and bottom feeder teams. That's one reason why he won many games. That game against the Lions when we sacked Stafford 10 times and beat him to a pulp is a great example. That was the good old Lions. Now they have one of the top OLs so it's a different story. That 49er playoff game when they pounded the rock for 186 yards was another joke. Dominated at the point. How is it even possible to give up that many yards rushing for a playoff team? They folded. The game that defined Zim's HC career for me was his first playoff loss 10-9 to the Hawks. It was brutal weather conditions which eliminated much of the offense. Teddy drove us down the field for the GW FG attempt and of course Walsh hooked a 22 yarder for the miss. It's not true but I think every loss was on a miss FG attempt under Zim. That was his early 70s style of football. The O only has 2 jobs. Burn the clock and get into FG range. That's why he always liked having a stiff at QB. Made his D look more important. He forgot the dominate J Tucker type of kicker to make his vision work.
I agree with everything you stated. However, there is one thing I've never understood. Many fans (I don't mean you) have romanticized that ill-fated, final FG attempt against Seattle in the playoffs as if Teddy orchestrated an epic, legendary drive. In truth, he didn't do anything clutch what-so-ever. The drive started at the Vikings' own 39 yard line. Rudolph drew a pass interference call that put the ball in Seahawks territory. And then Teddy completed a simple 9 yard pass to Rudolph. Rudolph broke the tackle & ran down the sideline to get the ball inside the 20 yard line. Then it was three straight Peterson runs & Walsh's missed FG. I just find it interesting that WE as fans feel the need to over dramatize. It's just funny is all. I blame those damn NFL Game Of The Week films they used to run from the 60's through the mid way point of the 80's. I love those films.
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Re: Latest on Kirk’s decision to leave Minnesota

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CharVike wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 8:19 am
Tommy TarkenKapp wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 6:58 pm

Yeah, luck was on our side for a good portion of the 2017 regular season. And not just Case Keenum. There was a laundry list of mediocre to poor QBs that Zim's defense got to play against as well. That 2017 #1 defensive ranking was built on some of those mediocre, opposing QBs. That defense was a bit of a paper tiger really. Brees & the Saints pretty much exposed that defense in the 2nd half of the Divisional Playoff game. And Philly just down right embarrassed that defense the entire NFC Championship game.
Zim's defense always thrived on the mediocre and bottom feeder teams. That's one reason why he won many games. That game against the Lions when we sacked Stafford 10 times and beat him to a pulp is a great example. That was the good old Lions. Now they have one of the top OLs so it's a different story. That 49er playoff game when they pounded the rock for 186 yards was another joke. Dominated at the point. How is it even possible to give up that many yards rushing for a playoff team? They folded. The game that defined Zim's HC career for me was his first playoff loss 10-9 to the Hawks. It was brutal weather conditions which eliminated much of the offense. Teddy drove us down the field for the GW FG attempt and of course Walsh hooked a 22 yarder for the miss. It's not true but I think every loss was on a miss FG attempt under Zim. That was his early 70s style of football. The O only has 2 jobs. Burn the clock and get into FG range. That's why he always liked having a stiff at QB. Made his D look more important. He forgot the dominate J Tucker type of kicker to make his vision work.
Zimmer took Leslie Fraiser's last place defense and improved it to a top 5 defense until Kirk's contract started coming home to roost in 2019/2020 and the talent on the defense thinned out. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Zimmer-brand football is going to win any Super Bowls but he was consistently fielding highly rated defenses. Sustaining a good defense over 5 or 6 years isn't just beating the bad teams.

To me the problem with Zimmer's defenses are the same we'll have with Flores. All of that crowding the LOS is great as far as keeping the offense guessing what kind of play you're running, but you're constantly forcing guys to drop back into mid-to-deep coverage from there and it's tiring over the course of a game. Zimmer had a lot of 4th quarter collapses and I think that's why.
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Re: Latest on Kirk’s decision to leave Minnesota

Post by CharVike »

Cliff wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 9:30 am
CharVike wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 8:19 am
Zim's defense always thrived on the mediocre and bottom feeder teams. That's one reason why he won many games. That game against the Lions when we sacked Stafford 10 times and beat him to a pulp is a great example. That was the good old Lions. Now they have one of the top OLs so it's a different story. That 49er playoff game when they pounded the rock for 186 yards was another joke. Dominated at the point. How is it even possible to give up that many yards rushing for a playoff team? They folded. The game that defined Zim's HC career for me was his first playoff loss 10-9 to the Hawks. It was brutal weather conditions which eliminated much of the offense. Teddy drove us down the field for the GW FG attempt and of course Walsh hooked a 22 yarder for the miss. It's not true but I think every loss was on a miss FG attempt under Zim. That was his early 70s style of football. The O only has 2 jobs. Burn the clock and get into FG range. That's why he always liked having a stiff at QB. Made his D look more important. He forgot the dominate J Tucker type of kicker to make his vision work.
Zimmer took Leslie Fraiser's last place defense and improved it to a top 5 defense until Kirk's contract started coming home to roost in 2019/2020 and the talent on the defense thinned out. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Zimmer-brand football is going to win any Super Bowls but he was consistently fielding highly rated defenses. Sustaining a good defense over 5 or 6 years isn't just beating the bad teams.

To me the problem with Zimmer's defenses are the same we'll have with Flores. All of that crowding the LOS is great as far as keeping the offense guessing what kind of play you're running, but you're constantly forcing guys to drop back into mid-to-deep coverage from there and it's tiring over the course of a game. Zimmer had a lot of 4th quarter collapses and I think that's why.
Our drafting didn't help keep the defense either. I don't think we have replaced Rhodes to this day. Griffens problems in 2018 didn't help either. Zimmer had his success and he's back with the Cowboys. That season success didn't carry over into the post season. But his HC career went on too long here. Once Cousins arrived it caused problems. His playing strengths didn't match up well with Zim's vision. Most of our OC's vision didn't match Zim until he dug up Kube. It was the OC flip every year. Once twice. QB contracts or any bigger contracts only hurt if you can't draft well. Ravens pay Lamar a ton but they can draft well which keeps the team strong. The Chiefs do the same thing. IMO if our current GM/HC don't have this team playing great in year 4 then they need to go. No sense in keep going down a dead end road again.
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Re: Latest on Kirk’s decision to leave Minnesota

Post by VikingLord »

Tommy TarkenKapp wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 8:03 am I can't fault the Falcons for being prepared for the future.
I can because I don't think it is clear that is what the Falcons were doing when they drafted Penix with the 8th pick. Normally teams use a high first round pick on players they intend to compete for a starting job. The Falcons spent a cool $100 million in guaranteed money on 4 year deal for Cousins. Most rookie deals are 4 years with a 5th year option, so based on that, if the Falcons didn't draft Penix with the intent for him to compete to win the starting QB job, at best they spent the 8th pick in the draft to increase depth at the QB position. And that doesn't even count Penix's age entering the NFL. The guy played college ball for 6 years. By the time his rookie deal expires he'll be at least 28 years old.

The Falcons seem to me to be acknowledging they are not confident in Cousins, or at least not confident enough to pass up the chance to draft someone they hope will be better. Penix will compete with Cousins for that starting job down there no matter what he, Penix or the Falcons say about it. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Penix win it, too.
Tommy TarkenKapp wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 8:03 am But, I can fault the Falcons for hastily overpaying a 36 year old QB coming off an Achilles tear before doing their due diligence on picking a QB at #8. Was there really that big of a market for Cousins that they had to sign him within the first 30 minutes of free agency? Who was their competition for Kirk? The Vikings? I think it was pretty clear the Vikings were willing to move on from Kirk unless they got him on a team friendly deal. The Vikings showed patience. The Falcons treated it like the "Buy It Now" option on eBay. You have to wonder if they might end up with buyer's remorse somewhere down the line?
The Falcons strike me as a very poorly run football team right now. The move to sign Cousins by itself was pretty questionable. The move to then draft a QB with the 8th pick when the team is in dire straights on the defensive side of the ball is even more questionable unless they weren't confident in the vet QB.

And that doesn't even take into account the fact that both Cousins and Penix now have worrisome injury histories tagging along with each of them. At least Cousins made it into his mid-30's before he suffered his first major injury. Penix has already had multiple severe injuries which contributed in part to his extended time playing college ball. The Falcons have yoked themselves to both.

I do think Penix competes for that starting job down there. I think odds are at least 50-50 he wins it.