The official JJ McCarthy Thread

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CharVike
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Re: The official JJ McCarthy Thread

Post by CharVike »

VikingLord wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 6:40 pm
CharVike wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 9:35 am You're right we are not run oriented mainly because we had games when we couldn't run. We couldn't block. We were No 4 in pass attempts. But JJM did make clutch throws when asked to. He also had the blocking to make those throws. I look at sacks allowed by team. You have pocket passers like Goff, Stafford and Purdy who's OL didn't allow many sacks. Then you have guys like Allen and Mahomes who both have great pocket movement and their OLs were the only 2 to give up under 30 which is incredible. You need an OL that limits the rush or your done. IMO the teams that allowed under 40 sacks have the best pass blocking OLs. And those QBs are all over the board. You have pocket, movement and rushers. Some have all 3 skills like Allen. Bottom line we gave up 47 sacks and I'll pin that on bad blocking. These middle 3 guys we put out there are pitiful and it's been like that for a long time. Every team attacks our middle. The Bengals are the same garbage and allowed 50 sacks. That can't and won't work if you want to go all the way.
If that is the case then I don't think either Sam Darnold or McCarthy will do well this year, or at the very least if they do well it will not be because their OL protection improved compared to last year. I say that because I don't believe KAM made any moves in FA or the draft that addressed the interior OL. If there will be improvement, it will have to come from within the existing player ranks and while I'd love to believe that will happen, I think the only OL player that could improve much at this point is Ed Ingram (and I'm doubtful he will improve much if at all).

In some ways I found it surprising that the Vikings went with McCarthy and not Nix. While McCarthy is younger and has a potentially higher ceiling, Nix is more a QB in the Cousins model. Nix was well known for running the offense with efficiency and handling pressure very well. He wasn't known for scrambling or running necessarily and wasn't very aggressive in terms of attacking the middle and deep parts of the field, but he was an excellent system QB who threw with timing and accuracy and was hard to rattle. Between McCarthy and Nix it seemed Nix fit the profile of a QB in KOC's system. I suppose one could claim the same about McCarthy given what he was asked to do generally in Harbaugh's offense at Michigan, but when McCarthy had to make a play he was far more likely to take more risk than Nix from what I saw and read about the two. Maybe that is what KOC was looking for - a QB who, once he demonstrates he understands the offense and scheme, is willing and able to push the envelope more and perhaps find greater rewards as a result.

Whatever it is, it is pretty clear that the Vikings are standing pat along the entire OL this season, and whoever ends up as the starting QB is going to have to deal with that and the resulting interior pressure he is likely to face. That actually might be a good reason KOC will sit McCarthy for the coming year. Dealing with a lot of pass rush pressure has doomed more than one rookie QB. Even very talented top picks have wilted under the intense pressure that the bad OL's they get stuck behind typically allow, and I think that stunts their growth as it causes them to become far more risk averse than they otherwise might be. It might take another draft for KAM to find the interior OL talent in FA or the draft needed to provide McCarthy with the protection he needs to succeed once they start him. Even if McCarthy is technically ready, that might be the wisest thing they can do to maximize the chances he'll pan out.

It will be interesting to see how Darnold deals with that interior pressure. He's been in the league long enough to have a good chance of dealing with it. With any luck the running game and short passing game will be good enough where he won't have to drop back and hold onto it too long.
QBs that get picked by teams that don't have much talent are in a very bad spot. All QBs need a certain amount of time to execute the play. It looks like KOC's system is more of a downfield attack and that may be the reason he took JJM over Nix. I don't know which one will be better. Nix's experience is certainly a benefit. Playing any rookie QB day 1 is a huge gamble. Just the speed of the game is a huge jump up from college. The player experience level is another jump and it continues. Very good defense seem to be always able to apply pressure on the QB. Elite level pass rushers are picked very early in the draft. Them, QBs and LT fly off the board. I guess Ingram can still improve and he did from his rookie year which was probably the worst performance I have ever seen. The Jets ruined a few QBs because they have struggled to build an OL for a long time. There's little sense in us ruining our pick because we can't block in the middle. Teams seem to be lining up there rushers all over the LOS. The quickest path to the QB is up the middle. When we played the Saints in London Davenport drove Clevland yards past Cousins setup and buried him into the ground. Davenport isn't an inside monster. He relies on speed and moves. That's a play that helped convince us to give a 13 million prove it deal which is a joke. It also showed Clevland can't hold the point.
CharVike
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Re: The official JJ McCarthy Thread

Post by CharVike »



This is an interesting take on Chris Simms part regarding JJM. We all know that JJM wasn't asked to be a gunslinger or carry the load but in this they talk about 3rd down passing yardage. He was No 3. That's very impressive. That's making plays when they need to be made. I agree with Simms that this class does appear to be loaded with QB talent that can play at the NFL level. I watched the highlights like others and he can make some nice throws in between defenders. Even from outside the hash to the other side. I also think JJM is far beyond the other 1st rounders we have taken in my history. Hopefully this one works out.
allday1991
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Re: The official JJ McCarthy Thread

Post by allday1991 »

Tommy TarkenKapp wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 3:40 pm
allday1991 wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 3:03 pm

To be fair Kirk is a statue and doesn’t like throwing the ball away from what I’ve noticed, maybe he’s worried about his completion %. I’m not ready to say this oline is great but 47 sacks didn’t solely fall on the oline. Was kirk good at blitz pick up? The falcons had a top 5 oline last year, do you think it will improve going from Ridder to Cousins? I believe statistically they will be worse based off the starting qb.
I'm in agreement with AD91 on this. The number of sacks don't tell the whole story. Not without context anyhow. Did the QB not read the blitz? Did the RB not pick-up the blitzer? The O-lines of the Vikes & Bengals for that matter have been serviceable at the very least. Not great by any standards but they pretty much get the job done.

If folks want stats to prove it. Look no further than Cousins' stats since 2018. He has averaged around 4,000 passing yards & 30 TD passes per season. He's not racking up those kinds of stats on his back or running for his life behind a garbage O-line. And it's pretty well known that Kirk doesn't typically create outside of the called play. He's getting adequate protection to accumulate those passing statistics.

As for Burrow...view his stats when he's played a full season (2021 & 2022). Averaging around 4,000 passing yards & 30 TD passes per season. The Bengals found their way to the Super Bowl in 2021 & the AFC Championship in 2022. That doesn't happen with a garbage O-line.

And people don't give credit to how tough Cousins & Burrows are. They hold on to the ball a little long at times waiting for a receiver to break open. They take a lot of hits. And some of those hits are sacks. It's absolutely astonishing to me that Cousins' injury occurred without being touched by a defender.

Can the O-Lines be better? Hell yes!! But, they're not garbage. And let's remember that the pass rushers get paid pretty damn well to get after the QB.
100% if Kirk can put up 4K yards and 30 tds with a bad oline he could easily put up close to 5k and 40tds with a good one. “If” Kirk was that type of qb and we let him go that reflects on how bad this management is
“I remember my mistakes more than my success.” - Adrian Peterson