Draft Day Discussion

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CharVike
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Re: Draft Day Discussion

Post by CharVike »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2024 5:07 am
CharVike wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2024 4:21 pm With their second pick of the afternoon, Minnesota used their first of two selections in the sixth round on former Oklahoma offensive tackle Walter Rouse.
Walter Rouse enters the NFL draft with upside as a potential interior offensive lineman, underscored by his significant collegiate starts and power at the point of attack. His transition from tackle to guard could mitigate some athletic shortcomings, particularly his struggles with vertical sets and lateral movement. Rouse's effective use of hand strikes and ability to anchor down suggests he could move inside, where his limitations in space are less detrimental.
Have the Vikings stated an intent to move him to guard? Or have they just said he's versatile?
Haven't heard anything. Based on what I read he can't play OT at the pro level effectively. Based on that I assume a shift to G. I'm sure they would like to keep that Viking tradition alive by playing OL players anywhere. You think after holder Oli was junk and had all kinds of drive killing holding calls they would never do a switch again. He even had a penalty that shocked everyone including the announcers and the other referees. Nobody knew what it was because it's only been called a couple times since pro football was invented. I think it was holding by strangulation. We were forced into a silent forfeit and holder Oli was thrown from the game. But Kwesi's failed draft pick is still out there doing nothing. He's got 2 more season then thrown into the FA junk pile. He'll get signed by a team with no OL. His rookie year he was among our team leaders in passes batted. Except he did it to his own team. Talk about losers. Still getting a pay check.
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Re: Draft Day Discussion

Post by CharVike »

This is a cool name for a football player QB Rocky Lombardi. It don't get more American, hero, underdog than that. Bengals signed him as a UDFA. I thought Penix had a lifetime college career which of course he did. Rocky was 7 year college vet.
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VikingLord
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Re: Draft Day Discussion

Post by VikingLord »

Love the Jackson and Reichard picks. Jackson was super-productive at CB. He's got the long frame and physicality I'm sure Flores wants his CBs to have. Doesn't have the top-end recovery speed, but great value in the 4th.

I'm surprised more teams don't invest picks at kicker when you think about how many games come down to field goals, and the Vikings got a good one in Reichard. Very accurate from inside 40 and has good leg strength.
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Re: Draft Day Discussion

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General comments on KAM's performance in this year's draft:

- I don't know if the rumors were true about KAM being willing to trade both 1sts to move up to get JJ McCarthy at 4 or 5, but the fact is he didn't do that. He held and managed to make sure he got McCarthy while retaining his 2nd 1st. I'll get to that pick in a minute, but whether by accident or intent, I thought he handled the Vikings first pick masterfully and got the QB I believe the Vikings wanted. The trade up with the Jets ensured that.

- I was impressed that the Vikings moved up to get Turner as well. Great pass rushers are hard to find and very valuable commodities as a result. Seeing Turner available there and having the will to go up and get him I think will end up being one of the better moves any team made in this year's draft. Of course, this was only possible because KAM retained #23, but he gave up mostly mid-round picks to get what I believe will end up being a game-changing impact player in Turner. Great move and great understanding of value.

- I really like the picks of Jackson in the 4th and Preichard in the 6th. The Vikings needed CB depth and while Jackson has some rough edges I think he's a very productive CB who will have a chance to win significant playing time out of the gate. And having a reliable kicker is critical. So many games come down to those 3 points a field goal or even extra point provides.

- KAM seems to have come a long way from his first draft where he traded value for more lottery tickets, essentially. This year he used less valuable lower round picks to position himself to take higher value players who are more likely to make an outsize impact over time. They might not make that impact, but the chances of them making it are higher, and in the case of both first rounders, transformative if they reach their potential.

Really happy overall with what the Vikings did in the draft this year. I was down on KAM heading into this year's draft but not anymore, and I am truly excited to watch what the Vikings do this upcoming year in what is shaping up to be a very competitive and tough division.
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Re: Draft Day Discussion

Post by psjordan »

VikingLord wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2024 11:33 am General comments on KAM's performance in this year's draft:
Don’t disagree with much if anything you stated. I’d add that we did decimate next year’s # of draft selections by going on this “spending spree”. I don’t necessarily think that’s a bad thing, and I’d assume KAM has some idea what he’ll do to increase # of picks next year, beyond our supplementals. Maybe the league gave him an inkling of what’s to come of the Kirk tampering.

One thing that stuck out to me was the casual way he told KOC we were getting Turner, and by the look on his face not only was KOC shocked, it appeared to me he may have had no idea KAM was even working on such a deal. This surprised me - I would have thought a move that bold would have been discussed among GM and HC while in the works. Not a bad or good thing, just surprised me.

I love the first round moves. Turner is listed at 6’3” and 250 lbs, which honestly he doesn’t look to me. I’m hoping he can find the sweet spot between being nimble and being big enough not to get hurt at this level.

And as for JJM, I agree with Belichick - as soon as he’s ready, he should be playing. Whether that’s 2024 week 1, 2024 week 10 or 2025.
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Re: Draft Day Discussion

Post by CharVike »

A QB I liked was M Pratt who the Packers selected in round 7. That appears to be a fall in the lap pick. He was projected round 4-5. Milton went to the Pats round 6 and already the experts are saying position change to TE. Milton said that's the 1st he heard of it. Another I liked is Mark Gronowski. He's still waiting for a call. We should bring him in as a camp arm. No sense having Mullens throw 100's of passes a day. Few days of that and they will be hoping for a duck throw.
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Re: Draft Day Discussion

Post by VikingsVictorious »

VikingLord wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2024 11:33 am General comments on KAM's performance in this year's draft:

- I don't know if the rumors were true about KAM being willing to trade both 1sts to move up to get JJ McCarthy at 4 or 5, but the fact is he didn't do that. He held and managed to make sure he got McCarthy while retaining his 2nd 1st. I'll get to that pick in a minute, but whether by accident or intent, I thought he handled the Vikings first pick masterfully and got the QB I believe the Vikings wanted. The trade up with the Jets ensured that.

- I was impressed that the Vikings moved up to get Turner as well. Great pass rushers are hard to find and very valuable commodities as a result. Seeing Turner available there and having the will to go up and get him I think will end up being one of the better moves any team made in this year's draft. Of course, this was only possible because KAM retained #23, but he gave up mostly mid-round picks to get what I believe will end up being a game-changing impact player in Turner. Great move and great understanding of value.

- I really like the picks of Jackson in the 4th and Preichard in the 6th. The Vikings needed CB depth and while Jackson has some rough edges I think he's a very productive CB who will have a chance to win significant playing time out of the gate. And having a reliable kicker is critical. So many games come down to those 3 points a field goal or even extra point provides.

- KAM seems to have come a long way from his first draft where he traded value for more lottery tickets, essentially. This year he used less valuable lower round picks to position himself to take higher value players who are more likely to make an outsize impact over time. They might not make that impact, but the chances of them making it are higher, and in the case of both first rounders, transformative if they reach their potential.

Really happy overall with what the Vikings did in the draft this year. I was down on KAM heading into this year's draft but not anymore, and I am truly excited to watch what the Vikings do this upcoming year in what is shaping up to be a very competitive and tough division.
Turner was the consensus #1 defender in the draft. Most people expected him to go to the Falcons at pick 8. We way overpaid for pick 17, but we way underpaid for the best defender in the draft.
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Re: Draft Day Discussion

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psjordan wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2024 11:58 am Turner is listed at 6’3” and 250 lbs, which honestly he doesn’t look to me. I’m hoping he can find the sweet spot between being nimble and being big enough not to get hurt at this level.
Turner played and was incredibly productive at Alabama. The Crimson Tide play against the best teams in college football, which means Dallas Turner has already gone up against the better offensive tackles and linemen in college football.

If Turner came from a smaller program or hadn't been as productive over his college career I'd be more inclined to believe he's a classic tweener who might struggle in the pros. And I suppose it could happen that he'll fail to continue being productive, but if anything he uses the height and weight of his opponents against them. It's very rare to see Turner get just outright neutralized at the point of attack, and there are several examples of Turner going up against a much larger OL and just bull rushing him back. He's incredibly strong and athletic for his size.

He can probably add another solid 10-15 pounds to his frame, but I think he'll be terrorizing opposing backfields right out of the gate.
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Re: Draft Day Discussion

Post by VikingLord »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2024 1:05 pm Turner was the consensus #1 defender in the draft. Most people expected him to go to the Falcons at pick 8. We way overpaid for pick 17, but we way underpaid for the best defender in the draft.
I'm not sure I agree we overpaid to move up to 17. I guess it depends on how you look at the value. If you're just looking at a 6 spot move up from 23 to 17, it was a lot to give up. If you look at a move up to get the best defensive player in the draft, I think the Vikings got the better of the deal by far.

Put another way, no way Turner is there at 23, and no other top edge defender would have been there at 23 either, nor would the Vikings have found one with any of the picks they used to move up. So the move up positionally was expensive, sure, but the move up value-wise was heavily in favor of the Vikings IMHO. I don't think it will take Turner long at all to demonstrate that on the field.
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Re: Draft Day Discussion

Post by VikingsVictorious »

VikingLord wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2024 2:14 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2024 1:05 pm Turner was the consensus #1 defender in the draft. Most people expected him to go to the Falcons at pick 8. We way overpaid for pick 17, but we way underpaid for the best defender in the draft.
I'm not sure I agree we overpaid to move up to 17. I guess it depends on how you look at the value. If you're just looking at a 6 spot move up from 23 to 17, it was a lot to give up. If you look at a move up to get the best defensive player in the draft, I think the Vikings got the better of the deal by far.

Put another way, no way Turner is there at 23, and no other top edge defender would have been there at 23 either, nor would the Vikings have found one with any of the picks they used to move up. So the move up positionally was expensive, sure, but the move up value-wise was heavily in favor of the Vikings IMHO. I don't think it will take Turner long at all to demonstrate that on the field.
That's exactly what I said.
By the charts we paid too much to move up from 23 to 17, but by the player we got it was a steal.
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Re: Draft Day Discussion

Post by VikeFanInEagleLand »

psjordan wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2024 11:58 am
Don’t disagree with much if anything you stated. I’d add that we did decimate next year’s # of draft selections by going on this “spending spree”. I don’t necessarily think that’s a bad thing, and I’d assume KAM has some idea what he’ll do to increase # of picks next year, beyond our supplementals. Maybe the league gave him an inkling of what’s to come of the Kirk tampering.

I'm not worried about that either. I think we have 1st and 4th round picks, and we might end up with two Round 3 compensatory picks. When you add the fact that because of the cap room, the Vikings are set up well to add some talent via Free Agency, I think things are looking bright purple for next year.
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Re: Draft Day Discussion

Post by cmoss84 »

Feels very much like we got 2 top 10 talents with 11, 23, and change.
We might actually have a decent amount of depth on both sides of the ball...
Day 3 optimism: A lot of top 80 prospects left (according to nfl.com). Feeling a defensive tackle is coming.

Is this 6'4" cb dude in the mold of Jayron Kearse?
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
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Re: Draft Day Discussion

Post by VikingsVictorious »

cmoss84 wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2024 9:23 pm Feels very much like we got 2 top 10 talents with 11, 23, and change.
We might actually have a decent amount of depth on both sides of the ball...
Day 3 optimism: A lot of top 80 prospects left (according to nfl.com). Feeling a defensive tackle is coming.

Is this 6'4" cb dude in the mold of Jayron Kearse?
Should be better, but only time will tell.
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Re: Draft Day Discussion

Post by makila »

psjordan wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2024 11:58 am
VikingLord wrote: Mon Apr 29, 2024 11:33 am General comments on KAM's performance in this year's draft:
Don’t disagree with much if anything you stated. I’d add that we did decimate next year’s # of draft selections by going on this “spending spree”. I don’t necessarily think that’s a bad thing, and I’d assume KAM has some idea what he’ll do to increase # of picks next year, beyond our supplementals. Maybe the league gave him an inkling of what’s to come of the Kirk tampering.

One thing that stuck out to me was the casual way he told KOC we were getting Turner, and by the look on his face not only was KOC shocked, it appeared to me he may have had no idea KAM was even working on such a deal. This surprised me - I would have thought a move that bold would have been discussed among GM and HC while in the works. Not a bad or good thing, just surprised me.

I love the first round moves. Turner is listed at 6’3” and 250 lbs, which honestly he doesn’t look to me. I’m hoping he can find the sweet spot between being nimble and being big enough not to get hurt at this level.

And as for JJM, I agree with Belichick - as soon as he’s ready, he should be playing. Whether that’s 2024 week 1, 2024 week 10 or 2025.
It's expected we have two comp picks next year I think. I'd speculate that played into their decision to move those mid round picks next season.
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Re: Draft Day Discussion

Post by VikingLord »

I know this is post-draft and not draft day, but since it's slow and this thread is active I thought I'd post this here:

https://walterfootball.com/nfldraftgradesteam.php

Someone did NOT like the Vikings draft. Like, at all...
2024 NFL Draft Accomplishments: Minnesota did not manage its resources very well in the 2024 NFL Draft.
They were then unwilling to move up more than one selection for J.J. McCarthy. That was at least correct because McCarthy is the same sort of caliber of prospect as Mac Jones
Charlie Campbell reported that Turner would fall because some teams flagged him medically, so Turner being available at No. 17 wasn’t a surprise for most teams. The Vikings, apparently, didn’t get the memo. When the dust settled, Minnesota had no second-day selections and only three picks in the entire 2025 NFL Draft: a first-rounder and two fifths.
OK, I realize I come at this as a fan of the Vikings, but this seems overly harsh. IIRC, Mac Jones was not a highly rated QB prospect. The fact he went in the 1st round where he did and when he did (15th to the Pats I believe) reflects more on a confluence of events than anything Jones demonstrated on the field or during the pre-draft process. I think a lot of people were surprised that Jones went where he did. I know some on this board really liked him and thought the Vikings should have tried to draft him in the 1st, but I don't think Jones is the same caliber of prospect as, say, Daniel Jones was coming out. I'd compare McCarthy more to D. Jones than M. Jones. There are definitely question marks, but McCarthy strikes me as a prospect with a higher ceiling than Mac Jones. I guess we'll find out.

I also find the speculation on the medical issues with Turner to be puzzling. First of all, every single defensive player fell in this last draft. I think the first defensive player taken was Latu at 15, and he most definitely had some medical red flags associated with him. Turner played his entire last season in college and was a full participant at the Combine. I don't know about his pro day but I imagine he checked out fine. So where this rumor about a medical issue came from is beyond me because it strikes me as completely unsupported by any evidence. Maybe Turner does have a medical issue, but to say the Vikings didn't get that memo?

Again, we'll all see. About the only part of this review I can agree with is the number of mid-round picks that were invested to move up for these two players. It does shift the burden of hitting on the higher picks forward and does add some question marks to the 2025 draft, but at the same time, most drafts only produce 1 or 2 impact players even for teams that pick in every round. Also, we've seen what happens when the GM trades higher picks for more lower rounders. They pick more players, sure, but what does it net the team? I guess that also depends on who they pick and a little good luck, but it hasn't really helped the Vikings over the last few years, at least.

Post-draft grades are always interesting. This one in particular struck me as way too speculative and way too harsh.