1st Round Final Prediction

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VikingsVictorious
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Re: 1st Round Final Prediction

Post by VikingsVictorious »

Alaskan wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 5:45 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 4:49 pm
I will go on vibes once in a while, but vibes as a rule are not a good way to evaluate. I never played QB at more than family and friends get togethers, but I can watch guys like Chris Simms and Kurt Warner break down film on these guys and make a pretty good educated guess on who will be best. You can too.
Don’t act like those guys don’t ride for the Brand. Or do. That’s up to you The NFL is their job. Their job is Not evaluating talent specific to a give NFL system or what can be done to a system with given talent. Only the organization knows those things. Guys like Warner and Simms get paid for TV ratings or to promote The NFL not based on weather they are right or wrong in evaluating talent. GMs and coach’s and staffs livelihoods are at stake. All they do everyday is high level organizational football related things. All we do is listen to talking heads getting paid to get good ratings. Believe what you want. It means zero to me. I have no interest in discussing anymore of this further.
Why even discuss at all with anybody with your attitude that we all know absolutely nothing and our opinions are worthless. Simms and Warner absolutely know what they're talking about and if they are continuously wrong nobody will listen to them any more.
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Re: 1st Round Final Prediction

Post by Alaskan »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 5:57 pm
Alaskan wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 5:45 pm

Don’t act like those guys don’t ride for the Brand. Or do. That’s up to you The NFL is their job. Their job is Not evaluating talent specific to a give NFL system or what can be done to a system with given talent. Only the organization knows those things. Guys like Warner and Simms get paid for TV ratings or to promote The NFL not based on weather they are right or wrong in evaluating talent. GMs and coach’s and staffs livelihoods are at stake. All they do everyday is high level organizational football related things. All we do is listen to talking heads getting paid to get good ratings. Believe what you want. It means zero to me. I have no interest in discussing anymore of this further.
Why even discuss at all with anybody with your attitude that we all know absolutely nothing and our opinions are worthless. Simms and Warner absolutely know what they're talking about and if they are continuously wrong nobody will listen to them any more.
I wasn’t trying to discuss anything with you. If you recall, you questioned my opinion in a thread that was intended to be a fun thing on predictions on the draft. I simply responded to your critique of my opinion and it escalated from there( like it usually does with anyone that opposes your view) You would be the last person on here I would want to discuss football with. Please Foe me then neither of us will have to deal with this again.
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VikingsVictorious
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Re: 1st Round Final Prediction

Post by VikingsVictorious »

Alaskan wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:04 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 5:57 pm
Why even discuss at all with anybody with your attitude that we all know absolutely nothing and our opinions are worthless. Simms and Warner absolutely know what they're talking about and if they are continuously wrong nobody will listen to them any more.
I wasn’t trying to discuss anything with you. If you recall, you questioned my opinion in a thread that was intended to be a fun thing on predictions on the draft. I simply responded to your critique of my opinion and it escalated from there( like it usually does with anyone that opposes your view) You would be the last person on here I would want to discuss football with. Please Foe me then neither of us will have to deal with this again.
I'm talking about discussing with anybody. With the attitude that all of our opinions are worthless. I had no interest in blocking you. If you want to block me go ahead.
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Re: 1st Round Final Prediction

Post by BeforeIDie »

What I think will happen:

JJ McCarthy for our 2 firsts, at least.

What I want to realistically happen:

Penix at 11. Cooper DeJean or Byron murph at 23.

What I want if I was the GM:

Trade up to draft Maye, then trade next year’s first and change to get back into the first and get Penix and duke it out.

What I want when I’m dreaming:

Odunze at 11, Penix at 23, trade back into the first somewhere to get Byron Murph II.
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Re: 1st Round Final Prediction

Post by Cliff »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 3:11 pm
Cliff wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 1:13 pm The Vikings haven't been able to get a deal done to move up into the top 3 in the past and I wouldn't be shocked if that trend continued. I don't know enough about college ball to give much on particular players but I think if the Vikings trade up it's going to end up being #5 as the Cardinals decline a trade to get Marvin Harrison Jr.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Vikings aren't able to move up to get who they want at QB and then stay put at 11 and get some other area of need. 23 might still be too high for the remaining QBs but without a pick in the 2nd or 3rd rounds they may be forced to reach. In that case, I assume they'll try to trade back to get a mid-2nd round and maybe a late 3rd or 4th as well for #23. Pick up one of the remaining QBs in the 2nd.
I'm very confident the top 6 QBs and that is what it is a top 6 not a top 4 will be gone before 23. Good chance gone by 13. 11 isn't a reach for any of them. The simple solution to getting the Cards pick at 4 is make it a 3 way with the Vikings getting 4, The Cards getting 5 (MHJ) and 23, the Chargers getting 11 and 27. I don't think any of the teams would say no to that.
I see mock drafts all over the place and that's all I can go by because I don't know enough about them all. ESPN, for example, they've got the Vikings trading up to 5 for JJ (4th QB taken) and then no other QB going in the 1st round. Same with Yahoo sports. On the other hand, CBS has those 6 going in the 1st. PFF has JJ slipping to 9 and no other QBs going in the 1st.
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Re: 1st Round Final Prediction

Post by Cliff »

BeforeIDie wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 10:27 pmWhat I want if I was the GM:

Trade up to draft Maye, then trade next year’s first and change to get back into the first and get Penix and duke it out.

What I want when I’m dreaming:

Odunze at 11, Penix at 23, trade back into the first somewhere to get Byron Murph II.
I think you can put these both in the "what I want when I'm dreaming" category. If the Vikings trade into the top 3 to get Maye there's no way they'll have a 1st rounder in 2025 to deal to anybody else.
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Re: 1st Round Final Prediction

Post by VikingsVictorious »

Cliff wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:20 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 3:11 pm
I'm very confident the top 6 QBs and that is what it is a top 6 not a top 4 will be gone before 23. Good chance gone by 13. 11 isn't a reach for any of them. The simple solution to getting the Cards pick at 4 is make it a 3 way with the Vikings getting 4, The Cards getting 5 (MHJ) and 23, the Chargers getting 11 and 27. I don't think any of the teams would say no to that.
I see mock drafts all over the place and that's all I can go by because I don't know enough about them all. ESPN, for example, they've got the Vikings trading up to 5 for JJ (4th QB taken) and then no other QB going in the 1st round. Same with Yahoo sports. On the other hand, CBS has those 6 going in the 1st. PFF has JJ slipping to 9 and no other QBs going in the 1st.
I'll stake my draft cred that any mock having only 4 QB FRPs is full of ####. :hitfan: .
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Re: 1st Round Final Prediction

Post by VikingsVictorious »

If we do what I'm dreading I will bash it a couple times then resign myself to it. The five stages of grief. Denial. I'm not even allowing myself that one. Anger yep I'll do that, depression I've already been doing that, Bargaining I've kind of been doing that as in I can live with trading up for McCarthy as long as he doesn't cost one iota more than 11 and 23 and finally acceptance.
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Re: 1st Round Final Prediction

Post by VikingLord »

I'll go with Penix at 11 and Powers-Johnson at 23.
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Re: 1st Round Final Prediction

Post by halfgiz »

Everything is all rumors right now, but I been seeing it might take 4 1sts to get into the top 4. Which is crazy and it wouldn’t be worth it to me.
Would like to see them find some other kind of solution if that is the case.
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Re: 1st Round Final Prediction

Post by VikingsVictorious »

VikingLord wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:24 am I'll go with Penix at 11 and Powers-Johnson at 23.
I like it, but if we are drafting JPJ at 23 we should draft his QB Nix at 11. Then if Available Bucky Irving and Troy Franklin in the 4th. Class reunion. :rock:
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Re: 1st Round Final Prediction

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VikingLord wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:24 am I'll go with Penix at 11 and Powers-Johnson at 23.
Modifying this as follows:

Vikings trade 11 and 23 plus their 2025 1st rounder to the Cardinals for #4 where they will take JJ McCarthy.

I'm still predicting the first three picks this year will be Williams to the Bears at #1, Maye to the Commanders at #2, and Daniels to the Patriots at #3.
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Re: 1st Round Final Prediction

Post by VikingLord »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:04 am If we do what I'm dreading I will bash it a couple times then resign myself to it. The five stages of grief. Denial. I'm not even allowing myself that one. Anger yep I'll do that, depression I've already been doing that, Bargaining I've kind of been doing that as in I can live with trading up for McCarthy as long as he doesn't cost one iota more than 11 and 23 and finally acceptance.
He unfortunately will cost more than that but if KOC is as good at evaluating talent as we all hope he is then it will be well worth it.

I have taken the opposite approach to what I usually do pre-draft and tried to talk myself *out* of different QB prospects I think the Vikings might take. It is true that McCarthy doesn't have a lot of plus attributes that make him stand out, but on the flip side he also doesn't have a lot of negatives that stand out. The main knocks on him seem to be his age and relative lack of experience coupled with some questions about his ability to rapidly process the field. So he doesn't come with any obvious negatives that will have to be coached out of him. Compare that to Daniels or Williams, for example, who both have tendencies that might be difficult or impossible to coach around. Maye and Penix also have some issues that seem to have deep roots and might be difficult to overcome at this point in their development. Nix seems like the QB most similar to McCarthy in terms of the negatives he brings to the pros. Both of them seem to have fewer "hard" negatives and likely would make good students for a QB-friendly coach like KOC.
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Re: 1st Round Final Prediction

Post by VikingsVictorious »

VikingLord wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 3:17 pm
VikingLord wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:24 am I'll go with Penix at 11 and Powers-Johnson at 23.
Modifying this as follows:

Vikings trade 11 and 23 plus their 2025 1st rounder to the Cardinals for #4 where they will take JJ McCarthy.

I'm still predicting the first three picks this year will be Williams to the Bears at #1, Maye to the Commanders at #2, and Daniels to the Patriots at #3.
I agree the trade will be for pick 4 to take McCarthy but it won't include one iota more than 11 and 23 if Kwesi isn't an idiot. Here's the 3 way trade. Vikings get pick 4, Cards get picks 5 and 23, Chargers get picks 11 and 27. I don't see any of them saying no to that deal.
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Re: 1st Round Final Prediction

Post by VikingLord »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 4:36 pm
VikingLord wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 3:17 pm

Modifying this as follows:

Vikings trade 11 and 23 plus their 2025 1st rounder to the Cardinals for #4 where they will take JJ McCarthy.

I'm still predicting the first three picks this year will be Williams to the Bears at #1, Maye to the Commanders at #2, and Daniels to the Patriots at #3.
I agree the trade will be for pick 4 to take McCarthy but it won't include one iota more than 11 and 23 if Kwesi isn't an idiot.
Ummm... :popcorn:

In all seriousness, I think it will include more than the two firsts the Vikings have because the Vikings aren't the only team that needs a QB that sits outside of the top 3. I could see Denver or the Raiders make strong plays to move up to 4 and since neither of those teams can offer an additional first rounder this year, they'll have to sweeten it to beat what the Vikings can plop on the table. If KAM isn't willing to go higher, he very well could lose out, so I'll think he'll overbid (and even then he could still be beaten out if another team is desperate enough). #4 will be a seller's market for the Cardinals.

Ironically, I think two things work in the Vikings' favor though. First is that I don't think KAM will be willing to part with any additional picks to move up to #4. He's putting a lot on the table to move up, but he's not going to get into a bidding war, so while the compensation is high, I think it won't become higher.

Second thing that works in the Vikings' favor here is the depth at the position and the fact that with the first 4 players taken likely to be QBs, other really good talent is going to be pushed down the board. That could turn the Vikings from a buyer to a seller if another team outbids them to move up. In that scenario KAM might hold at 11 and see how things play out. He might not necessarily get the QB he wanted at 4, but he might be in a position to move back a bit in the first while getting back into the 2nd and still getting one of the top QB prospects. I have a feeling Nix is going to be the faller at QB in this draft if anyone is, and like you I think Nix is a great prospect. KAM going back to, say, 17 while picking up a mid 2nd-rounder and still getting Nix would be a coup IMHO. He could still spend 23 on DL or OL or DB along with a solid slot in round 2 that he doesn't have right now.

We'll see how it goes. I personally don't think any other team would be desperate enough to give up more than the 3 1sts I'm projecting the Vikings will give up, but stranger things have happened. There is also always the outside chance the Cards get cold feet and decide they want a particular guy at 4 and refuse to trade.

If the Falcons and Raiders had been just slightly more competent last season, the Vikings would at worst have the 6th pick and wouldn't have to worry about a trade up. It's almost like they were doubly cursed when Cousins was injured and then left, winning just enough games to make replacing him that much more difficult in the draft while at the same time being forced to replace him in said draft.

It is what it is now. Time to see what KAM has in his bag of tricks.