2024 NFL Draft

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CharVike
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by CharVike »

BeforeIDie wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 7:31 pm I think I would be hopeful with any of the “big 6”, remember when it was the “big 4”? Not excited, but hopeful. But I do NOT want to trade up and spend 3 first round picks on a guy that may turn out worse than if we sit and pick to begin with. And that’s always the risk with the draft, everybody brings up Brady going super late blah blah blah. This draft is a special QB draft. This doesn’t feel like a needle in the haystack draft. But it’s also not a clear cut “Andrew luck” or “Trevor Lawrence” golden boy draft. I could see Caleb Williams transitioning TERRIBLY to a grown man’s locker room. And winning will solve all that drama, but when they are on the downside… things will unravel. Williams might miss practice for another summer dress photo shoot.
It was the big 2 before all the media got involved. It still is the big 2. That don't create a good story. The media can't spend months talking about 2 guys. They need more material. I would spend 3 1st on Maye. He's a great prospect and everything Lawrence is/was.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by VikingsVictorious »

CharVike wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:31 am
BeforeIDie wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 7:31 pm I think I would be hopeful with any of the “big 6”, remember when it was the “big 4”? Not excited, but hopeful. But I do NOT want to trade up and spend 3 first round picks on a guy that may turn out worse than if we sit and pick to begin with. And that’s always the risk with the draft, everybody brings up Brady going super late blah blah blah. This draft is a special QB draft. This doesn’t feel like a needle in the haystack draft. But it’s also not a clear cut “Andrew luck” or “Trevor Lawrence” golden boy draft. I could see Caleb Williams transitioning TERRIBLY to a grown man’s locker room. And winning will solve all that drama, but when they are on the downside… things will unravel. Williams might miss practice for another summer dress photo shoot.
It was the big 2 before all the media got involved. It still is the big 2. That don't create a good story. The media can't spend months talking about 2 guys. They need more material. I would spend 3 1st on Maye. He's a great prospect and everything Lawrence is/was.
We agree on a lot of things, but we sure don't agree on this. I don't know if I'd even pick Maye if he fell to 11. Using 3 FRPs to get him??????????
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by Alaskan »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 12:57 pm
CharVike wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:31 am
It was the big 2 before all the media got involved. It still is the big 2. That don't create a good story. The media can't spend months talking about 2 guys. They need more material. I would spend 3 1st on Maye. He's a great prospect and everything Lawrence is/was.
We agree on a lot of things, but we sure don't agree on this. I don't know if I'd even pick Maye if he fell to 11. Using 3 FRPs to get him??????????
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what any of us think they should or should not do. The only thing we as fans can do is trust the Organization has the right pieces in place to make a good decisions that fits their vision. So far, it appears to me the Wilfs are allowing the GM to work his plan's for building excellence. This GM knowingly walked into a real mess. Cap Hell, some poor contract structure and an aging core (mostly on Defense) to name a few. He's got things turned around and headed in a better direction, all while staying competitive to keep the fan base interested and ownership happy in fairly short order. Who knows what they will do at QB going forward, I trust they will make a good decision that fits what they want to do. The coaching staff they have in place now is night and day more prepared and capable of developing a young guy than any staff they have had in some time and the core is set up for a young guy to thrive fairly early.....All while having cap space to sign key FA at positions of need. Its difficult to argue this too much. The NFC north is going to be stacked with good teams, all with franchise QB's and young cores. Should make for some interesting years ahead. I like the direction they are headed and look forward to seeing how it turns out.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by CharVike »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 12:57 pm
CharVike wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 10:31 am
It was the big 2 before all the media got involved. It still is the big 2. That don't create a good story. The media can't spend months talking about 2 guys. They need more material. I would spend 3 1st on Maye. He's a great prospect and everything Lawrence is/was.
We agree on a lot of things, but we sure don't agree on this. I don't know if I'd even pick Maye if he fell to 11. Using 3 FRPs to get him??????????
I just feel his skill set and upside are greater than all the guys below Caleb. Of course his 2nd season starting was worse than his 1st. You always like to see a steady progression up.
The Vikings have had representatives at the pro days for Caleb Williams, J.J. McCarthy, and Drake Maye. Quarterbacks Coach Josh McCown attended all three workouts. They did not show face at the pro days for Bo Nix or Michael Penix.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by VikingsVictorious »

CharVike wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 3:06 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 12:57 pm
We agree on a lot of things, but we sure don't agree on this. I don't know if I'd even pick Maye if he fell to 11. Using 3 FRPs to get him??????????
I just feel his skill set and upside are greater than all the guys below Caleb. Of course his 2nd season starting was worse than his 1st. You always like to see a steady progression up.
The Vikings have had representatives at the pro days for Caleb Williams, J.J. McCarthy, and Drake Maye. Quarterbacks Coach Josh McCown attended all three workouts. They did not show face at the pro days for Bo Nix or Michael Penix.
Doesn't matter. The Vikings have a long history of drafting guys they never met with. Or perhaps they could be having top secret meetings. Probably not with all the spies the QBs and Vikings leadership have watching them.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by CharVike »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 4:32 pm
CharVike wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 3:06 pm
I just feel his skill set and upside are greater than all the guys below Caleb. Of course his 2nd season starting was worse than his 1st. You always like to see a steady progression up.
The Vikings have had representatives at the pro days for Caleb Williams, J.J. McCarthy, and Drake Maye. Quarterbacks Coach Josh McCown attended all three workouts. They did not show face at the pro days for Bo Nix or Michael Penix.
Doesn't matter. The Vikings have a long history of drafting guys they never met with. Or perhaps they could be having top secret meetings. Probably not with all the spies the QBs and Vikings leadership have watching them.
I'm sure plenty of guys get drafted by teams that didn't go to the pro day. It could be a simple schedule conflict. I know Speilman and his crew meet with Teddy in FL for a separate workout after he flopped at his pro day. This will be answered in a few weeks.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by VikingsVictorious »

CharVike wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 5:33 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 4:32 pm
Doesn't matter. The Vikings have a long history of drafting guys they never met with. Or perhaps they could be having top secret meetings. Probably not with all the spies the QBs and Vikings leadership have watching them.
I'm sure plenty of guys get drafted by teams that didn't go to the pro day. It could be a simple schedule conflict. I know Speilman and his crew meet with Teddy in FL for a separate workout after he flopped at his pro day. This will be answered in a few weeks.
Honestly if we don't meet with them we are not using due diligence.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by BeforeIDie »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:34 pm
CharVike wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 5:33 pm
I'm sure plenty of guys get drafted by teams that didn't go to the pro day. It could be a simple schedule conflict. I know Speilman and his crew meet with Teddy in FL for a separate workout after he flopped at his pro day. This will be answered in a few weeks.
Honestly if we don't meet with them we are not using due diligence.
I 100% agree with you on face value. But I’m hoping that maybe some of the no-shows from Vikings reps are because they are playing poker, and not wanting to show their hand.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by CharVike »

BeforeIDie wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 11:52 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:34 pm
Honestly if we don't meet with them we are not using due diligence.
I 100% agree with you on face value. But I’m hoping that maybe some of the no-shows from Vikings reps are because they are playing poker, and not wanting to show their hand.
Based on their 30 on site visits the guys they didn't attend the pro day are on the list. IMO Maye and JJM are the two that fit what they are looking for. Their recent signing for the next fill in starter is a pocket guy with a gun who isn't a statue. Of course his decision making is bad especially for how long he's been around. To get either of them they may need to trade up. It could even be a 2 step trade. Get 5 or 4 and then do another to get 2 or 3. The value of a top 5 pick is far greater than what we have. Both are outside 10. The cream picks will be gone by then.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by CharVike »

Alaskan wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 2:49 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 12:57 pm
We agree on a lot of things, but we sure don't agree on this. I don't know if I'd even pick Maye if he fell to 11. Using 3 FRPs to get him??????????
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what any of us think they should or should not do. The only thing we as fans can do is trust the Organization has the right pieces in place to make a good decisions that fits their vision. So far, it appears to me the Wilfs are allowing the GM to work his plan's for building excellence. This GM knowingly walked into a real mess. Cap Hell, some poor contract structure and an aging core (mostly on Defense) to name a few. He's got things turned around and headed in a better direction, all while staying competitive to keep the fan base interested and ownership happy in fairly short order. Who knows what they will do at QB going forward, I trust they will make a good decision that fits what they want to do. The coaching staff they have in place now is night and day more prepared and capable of developing a young guy than any staff they have had in some time and the core is set up for a young guy to thrive fairly early.....All while having cap space to sign key FA at positions of need. Its difficult to argue this too much. The NFC north is going to be stacked with good teams, all with franchise QB's and young cores. Should make for some interesting years ahead. I like the direction they are headed and look forward to seeing how it turns out.
Your comparison is based on one of the most dysfunctional organizations in the NFL. Our past GM and HC were never on the same page. They weren't even reading from the same book. The owners allowed that to go on for a long time and Mark was in the building. Here we sit. Our 1st draft provided nothing. The same old trade down stuff. We no longer have a QB that can function. That will bring the whole team down. We saw that last year. Now it's a roll of the dice for another body. Yes it's the big 6. I don't think for a second all the big 6 will be J Loves or CJ's. One might be. Develop time is open ended. CJ day 1. Love took years. The direction looks better based on what we had. Compare it to the Bears. Yes they suck but have been playing with there version of Josh Dobbs. Couple great games then nothing. He's gone and they get the top dog this year. We'll see how it goes.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by Tommy TarkenKapp »

Damn!! It's so damn tough to make up my mind on the QBs in this draft. Maye or McCarthy seem like a great fit for the Vikes. But, I could see Penix or Nix doing pretty damn well in KOCs offense as well.

I'm not sure how KOC has all the QB prospects graded/ranked. But, if his grades on Maye, McCarthy, Nix & Penix are all pretty close. Keep the picks & take your favorite of who's left at 11. And who knows? They might have three to choose from at 11.

The media hype machine might have us all thinking four will be gone in the first five picks. I'm not so sure. I don't know what to think anymore. Just the same though, if KOC has a QB he truly covets & the Vikes think they have to surrender some picks to move up...just do it. They need to take their shot at their guy if they are damn certain he won't be there at 11.

What's the worst that can happen? They were wrong & we don't have a franchise QB? We're still a middle of the pack team? What else is frickin' new? We've been a middle of the pack team for about 45 years & running. I just don't agree with the mindset that it's safer to stay in mediocrity because we might downright suck for a few seasons if our grasp at greatness fails.

What's the saying? You can't hit a homerun if you don't swing the bat? Regardless of what happens in the draft...I'll still be a Vikings' fan.
Last edited by Tommy TarkenKapp on Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by CharVike »

Tommy TarkenKapp wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:28 am Damn!! It's so damn tough to make up my mind on the QBs in this draft. Maye or McCarthy seem like a great fit for the Vikes. But, I could see Penix or Nix doing pretty damn well in KOCs offense as well.

I'm not sure how KOC has all the QB prospects graded/ranked. But, if his grades on Maye, McCarthy, Nix & Penix are all pretty close. Keep the picks & take your favorite of who's left at 11. And who knows? They might have three to choose from at 11.

The media hype machine might have us all thinking four will be gone in the first five picks. I'm not so sure. I don't know what to think anymore. Just the same though, if KOC has a QB he truly covets & the Vikes think they have to surrender some picks to move up...just do it. They need to take their shot at their guy if they are damn certain he won't be there at 11.

What's the worse that can happen? They were wrong & we don't have a franchise QB? We're still a middle of the pack team? What else is frickin' new? We've been a middle of the pack team for about 45 years & running. I just don't agree with the mindset that it's safer to stay in mediocrity because we might downright suck for a few seasons if our grasp at greatness fails.

What's the saying? You can't hit a homerun if you don't swing the bat? Regardless of what happens in the draft...I'll still be a Vikings' fan.
The hype machine is running at full blast. Looks like 6 CJ's sitting there for the taking. Based on history it won't be close to that. However it goes it goes. But I'm with you. If there's a guy that sticks out to them then get him. They have put themselves in position to do just that.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by VikingsVictorious »

I found the following on the PurplePain forums.

Perhaps the most respected analyst of college players entering the draft is Greg Cosell. He’s honest, objective and unbiased. He isn’t beholding to any giant sports company.

Here is his ranking of the top 6 QBs in the draft with an additional comment on JJ McCarthy:


From @mikeklis this morning highlighting the QB rankings of @gregcosell and @jimmiller_NFL is a little different than we’ve seen.

1. Jayden Daniels
2. Drake Maye
3. Caleb Williams
4. Michael Penix Jr
5. Bo Nix
6. JJ McCarthy

Of note, on JJ McCarthy they had this to say…

“I don’t think McCarthy’s tape is very good,’’ Cosell said. “I’ve talked to a lot of people about McCarthy. I don’t know where all this momentum is coming from because I’ve not talked to anyone – I’m talking about people in the league – who see McCarthy that way.’’


“Remember when Colin Kaepernick was with Harbaugh out in San Francisco?’’ Miller said. “Everything was a fastball. He could never make touch throws. He could never go up and down, over the linebacker because everything was a three-quarter (delivery) fastball. (McCarthy’s) a lot like that and he misses a lot of throws over the middle where he’s behind the receiver.”
I've been coming around on McCarthy and thinking it wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen if we trade up to 4 using picks 11 and 23 with nothing else. If this Cosell guy knows his stuff that takes me out of wanting to trade up under any circumstances.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by Tommy TarkenKapp »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 1:50 pm I found the following on the PurplePain forums.

Perhaps the most respected analyst of college players entering the draft is Greg Cosell. He’s honest, objective and unbiased. He isn’t beholding to any giant sports company.

Here is his ranking of the top 6 QBs in the draft with an additional comment on JJ McCarthy:


From @mikeklis this morning highlighting the QB rankings of @gregcosell and @jimmiller_NFL is a little different than we’ve seen.

1. Jayden Daniels
2. Drake Maye
3. Caleb Williams
4. Michael Penix Jr
5. Bo Nix
6. JJ McCarthy

Of note, on JJ McCarthy they had this to say…

“I don’t think McCarthy’s tape is very good,’’ Cosell said. “I’ve talked to a lot of people about McCarthy. I don’t know where all this momentum is coming from because I’ve not talked to anyone – I’m talking about people in the league – who see McCarthy that way.’’


“Remember when Colin Kaepernick was with Harbaugh out in San Francisco?’’ Miller said. “Everything was a fastball. He could never make touch throws. He could never go up and down, over the linebacker because everything was a three-quarter (delivery) fastball. (McCarthy’s) a lot like that and he misses a lot of throws over the middle where he’s behind the receiver.”
I've been coming around on McCarthy and thinking it wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen if we trade up to 4 using picks 11 and 23 with nothing else. If this Cosell guy knows his stuff that takes me out of wanting to trade up under any circumstances.
Based on what I've read...I like McCarthy because he would seem to be a good fit for KOC's offense. But, I'm not terribly enamored with some of McCarthy's highlight videos. Some of those highlights look like late reads and/or underthrown balls that his receivers made tougher catches than necessary. I'm no expert. And there's a lot to like. But, I'm beginning to wonder is McCarthy really their guy? It's high stakes poker season. There's probably a lot of bluffing & misdirection abound.
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Re: 2024 NFL Draft

Post by VikingLord »

Alaskan wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 2:49 pm This GM knowingly walked into a real mess. Cap Hell, some poor contract structure and an aging core (mostly on Defense) to name a few.
How has KAM addressed that though? He extended Cousins again and has made some pretty questionable moves both in the draft and in free agency thus far. By all accounts KOC and he wanted to keep Cousins around longer, too, only they weren't willing to hand him another huge guaranteed deal for 4 years - just 2 more years.

I'm not a fan of what KAM has done thus far. His first draft in particular was awful near the top both in the moves he made (getting relatively little for a big move down in the 1st) and then getting players with those picks that have contributed relatively little to an area of the team that continues to be a big issue.

And then the situation he finds himself in this offseason now with no Cousins and no real plan behind Cousins. That was actually an issue that first reared it's ugly head after Cousins went down with injury last year, but now it is just magnified. KAM never committed to Cousins and maybe Cousins never made that possible, but if a GM is playing "rent-a-QB" on a year-to-year basis it would have made sense to try to find his longer-term replacement in an earlier draft, via trade, or even in free agency before finding himself in the spot he currently finds himself. Unless they thought Jaren Hall could be that guy, which I highly doubt given where they drafted him.

So here KAM sits now. He has positioned himself to make a move if he feels he needs to make a move. The big problem is, he doesn't enjoy a spot in the 1st round that is great. It's not terrible, but with the 1st 3 teams in the draft all needing QBs and all very unlikely to be willing to trade down, he's not going to get his pick of the guys coming out and will instead be forced to make an eventful call on draft day - does he spend a ton of draft capital to move up a few slots to take a swing at one of the other hyped QBs coming out, or does he sit pat and let fate decide what options he has? His decision could take the team in radically different directions in the near future as well as his own career as a GM. Literally everyone doing mocks sees KAM being desperate, sees the move to get the 23rd pick in the 1st round as KAM loading up to make a move up, and JJ McCarthy seems to be the QB du jour on the opposite end of that move.

Is KAM about to teach a master class in deception? Could he know who he's taking and where and is instead going to use one of his first two picks to further bolster the team with a player at a different position he could not otherwise get sitting pat in the 2nd round? Or is KAM going to prove that despite his lofty perch, advanced analytics available to him, and all he has on the line that in many respects he's no better at assessing talent or more gifted anaytically than pretty much everyone who posts on this board? It's a monkey-see, monkey-do league. Players get way over-hyped in every draft, *especially* at the QB position. Does this Vikings leadership team possess any real skill at evaluating top talent, at QB or, for that matter, at any other position?

This draft is going to tell us a lot about the guys driving the longship right now. Are they likely to discover new frontiers to conquer, or more likely to get lost in thick sea fog?