2024 Free Agents

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halfgiz
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Re: 2024 Free Agents

Post by halfgiz »

cmoss84 wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2024 12:24 pm Anyone know anything about the K we signed? Soccer player?
[/quote
All I know is he has bounced around a few practice squads and was kicking in the XFL
Made a 67 yarder in an addition film for interested teams. Vikings must have liked what they watched or saw.

The #Vikings signed kicker John Parker Romo.

Romo led the XFL in points last season and was 17-19 on his field goal attempts. #SKOL
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Re: 2024 Free Agents

Post by makila »

VikingLord wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:37 pm
Alaskan wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:48 pm

I guess I don’t follow that train of thought. If you look back at the Vikings last 20 first and second rounders. Pick the best 6 and then tell me you wouldn’t give them up to have a franchise QB for the next 10-15 years
What franchise QBs taken in the last 20 drafts would merit the type of trade you suggest, though? Are we talking the best of the best from that group of QBs? If so, maybe. However, it is equally important to note from whatever list of QBs you come up with where those QBs ended up being drafted in the years they came out. I can't think of a #1 QB taken in recent memory who ended up being the clear franchise QB for his team (maybe Andrew Luck?), and even among the guys who ended up joining your list, how many of those have gone on to win or even compete in a Superbowl?
Alaskan wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:48 pm Personally, I am in the fandom of this team for a championship and/or a dynasty at this point.
Are you saying there is a group of Vikings fans whose hope and dreams for this team is less than a championship, much less a dynasty? Do you think their suggestion that selling the future of the team for a wild, desperate swing at a QB prospect who is likely grossly over-valued is wrong for that reason alone?

After reading what you wrote above, I think you are even farther off the mark with what you're suggesting than I first believed. My first take was that you simply felt very strongly that a QB in this year's draft was as close to a can't-miss prospect as you have seen and is very likely to become the next great NFL QB. But it seems like what you're saying is more akin to the gambler who is just breaking even and decides to push all his chips onto the table in a desperate bid to change his fortunes. Could it work? Sure. Is it likely to work? Absolutely not.

Tell me who the next franchise QB is in this year's draft. Who merits the kind of move you are suggesting based on what is known about that player?

And while you're at it, tell me what QB(s) in the last 5 drafts would have merited that same type of compensation for the team that ended up drafting them?

A calculated, well-informed move up to get the right player at QB *might* be worth selling off the next 5 drafts for. Unfortunately, it is much, much harder to pull off in practice than in theory, and there is more than ample evidence to suggest it would be nothing more than a wild, desperate move that could seriously degrade the team's chances to compete for the next half a decade or more.
Alaskan wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:48 pm I am tired of all the patched together mediocre teams the Vikings consistently put out there. Without the franchise guy, the chances of winning a championship are near zero, and that is a fact.
I think we can agree on that point. I think everyone here is tired of it.

Where we differ is what moves are likely to address it and position the team to win that championship.

Hey, on the bright side at least Cousins bailed on them so they're forced now to make a move. The question becomes, what will that move be?

I'm willing to informally bet it won't be the move you suggested. On the flip side, however, it could be a slightly less damaging trade up to 5-6 to select a guy who they likely could have had sitting tight at 11 (which I think Victorious already pointed out and which I unfortunately agree with him there is a high chance they do). If they do that I think they're pulling a "Ponder Plus" error. When Spielman drafted Ponder in the first round, he was also desperate for a long term solution at QB and so made a big reach and took a guy who honestly merited a 3-4 round grade. He spent a precious 1st round pick on a mid prospect and the result was predictable and damaging as that 1st rounder was effectively wasted, but it wasn't more damaging than the loss of that 1st rounder and a few seasons spent hoping Ponder would develop. If KAM trades up, however, he'll by definition have to give up additional high picks in future year(s) to do so, and again it would most likely be to target a guy like JJ McCarthy who, like Ponder, merits at the highest a 2nd round grade and more likely a 3rd round grade just based on what is known about him to this point.

So it would still be a wild swing borne of desperation, but potentially an even more costly one than what Spielman did with Ponder. I really hope KAM avoids that temptation and, if he holds at #11, takes a player who has demonstrated his ability and effectiveness instead of just potential regardless of the position he plays. And if he trades back a bit, he gets not only adequate compensation from his trade partner but also focuses on best player available and doesn't reach for a position of need instead.

The Vikings are in a tough spot at QB no doubt. But if KAM is as smart as they say he is and KOC is as astute at evaluating QB talent as he should be having formerly played the position as a pro, both will know mere hope is not a solution, and a lot more goes into finding a franchise QB than pre-draft hype around players in any given year.
You are so much better with words than I am. Hahaha. Great post. Sums up my thoughts.
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Re: 2024 Free Agents

Post by Alaskan »

VikingLord wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:37 pm
Alaskan wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:48 pm

I guess I don’t follow that train of thought. If you look back at the Vikings last 20 first and second rounders. Pick the best 6 and then tell me you wouldn’t give them up to have a franchise QB for the next 10-15 years
What franchise QBs taken in the last 20 drafts would merit the type of trade you suggest, though? Are we talking the best of the best from that group of QBs? If so, maybe. However, it is equally important to note from whatever list of QBs you come up with where those QBs ended up being drafted in the years they came out. I can't think of a #1 QB taken in recent memory who ended up being the clear franchise QB for his team (maybe Andrew Luck?), and even among the guys who ended up joining your list, how many of those have gone on to win or even compete in a Superbowl?
Alaskan wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:48 pm Personally, I am in the fandom of this team for a championship and/or a dynasty at this point.
Are you saying there is a group of Vikings fans whose hope and dreams for this team is less than a championship, much less a dynasty? Do you think their suggestion that selling the future of the team for a wild, desperate swing at a QB prospect who is likely grossly over-valued is wrong for that reason alone?

After reading what you wrote above, I think you are even farther off the mark with what you're suggesting than I first believed. My first take was that you simply felt very strongly that a QB in this year's draft was as close to a can't-miss prospect as you have seen and is very likely to become the next great NFL QB. But it seems like what you're saying is more akin to the gambler who is just breaking even and decides to push all his chips onto the table in a desperate bid to change his fortunes. Could it work? Sure. Is it likely to work? Absolutely not.

I appreciate your take on the state the team and the direction you’d like to see them go. I understand the approach you would take clearly. I don’t necessarily agree, but that doesn’t make your position wrong, that isn’t what I was trying to suggest. I apologize if I offended you in any way. I really do appreciate reading your perspective. Your definitely one of the posters who’s post I look forward to reading. Sometime I get hurried and don’t explain the entirety of my trains of thought. One of the larger points I was trying to make is I don’t believe 1st and 2nd round picks are anywhere NEAR as valuable as you do. Nor do I feel JJ is an extremely important piece to the Vikings winning a championship. I would deal him now. I think there may be more than one franchise guy in this draft. Any one of the big 3. Or even one of the 2nd teir guys could be the guys. It really just depends who the staff feels will fit what they want to do best going forward. These are some talented guys….the situation they come into has so so much to do with how they will develop and perform.

Tell me who the next franchise QB is in this year's draft. Who merits the kind of move you are suggesting based on what is known about that player?

And while you're at it, tell me what QB(s) in the last 5 drafts would have merited that same type of compensation for the team that ended up drafting them?

A calculated, well-informed move up to get the right player at QB *might* be worth selling off the next 5 drafts for. Unfortunately, it is much, much harder to pull off in practice than in theory, and there is more than ample evidence to suggest it would be nothing more than a wild, desperate move that could seriously degrade the team's chances to compete for the next half a decade or more.
Alaskan wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:48 pm I am tired of all the patched together mediocre teams the Vikings consistently put out there. Without the franchise guy, the chances of winning a championship are near zero, and that is a fact.
I think we can agree on that point. I think everyone here is tired of it.

Where we differ is what moves are likely to address it and position the team to win that championship.

Hey, on the bright side at least Cousins bailed on them so they're forced now to make a move. The question becomes, what will that move be?

I'm willing to informally bet it won't be the move you suggested. On the flip side, however, it could be a slightly less damaging trade up to 5-6 to select a guy who they likely could have had sitting tight at 11 (which I think Victorious already pointed out and which I unfortunately agree with him there is a high chance they do). If they do that I think they're pulling a "Ponder Plus" error. When Spielman drafted Ponder in the first round, he was also desperate for a long term solution at QB and so made a big reach and took a guy who honestly merited a 3-4 round grade. He spent a precious 1st round pick on a mid prospect and the result was predictable and damaging as that 1st rounder was effectively wasted, but it wasn't more damaging than the loss of that 1st rounder and a few seasons spent hoping Ponder would develop. If KAM trades up, however, he'll by definition have to give up additional high picks in future year(s) to do so, and again it would most likely be to target a guy like JJ McCarthy who, like Ponder, merits at the highest a 2nd round grade and more likely a 3rd round grade just based on what is known about him to this point.

So it would still be a wild swing borne of desperation, but potentially an even more costly one than what Spielman did with Ponder. I really hope KAM avoids that temptation and, if he holds at #11, takes a player who has demonstrated his ability and effectiveness instead of just potential regardless of the position he plays. And if he trades back a bit, he gets not only adequate compensation from his trade partner but also focuses on best player available and doesn't reach for a position of need instead.

The Vikings are in a tough spot at QB no doubt. But if KAM is as smart as they say he is and KOC is as astute at evaluating QB talent as he should be having formerly played the position as a pro, both will know mere hope is not a solution, and a lot more goes into finding a franchise QB than pre-draft hype around players in any given year.
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Re: 2024 Free Agents

Post by allday1991 »

Hearing Kirk admitted flat out in the falcons presser to talking to the organization before the end of the no talk period. Anyone have any idea how this might play out? If they lose a draft pick do we get it?
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Re: 2024 Free Agents

Post by Cliff »

allday1991 wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:02 am Hearing Kirk admitted flat out in the falcons presser to talking to the organization before the end of the no talk period. Anyone have any idea how this might play out? If they lose a draft pick do we get it?
It seems like he had the team's blessing on it. The team isn't dumb, the Falcons signed a player healing from a season ending injury within 90 minutes. If they were upset it would have been different. It seems like they knew them and Kirk wouldn't come to a deal and it was a no hard feelings situation.

If the team doesn't feel wronged or gave their blessing there's no victim. In fact, it was probably helpful for the team to know in advance what Kirk was going to do. Let him look into it, do the dealing before FA opens, and be ready. It helped them know they could immediately start signing FA players with their new cap space and situation.

The league might have to take action just because it was so obvious though.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootba ... ing-period
“There’s great people here,” Cousins said. “And it’s not just the football team. I mean, I’m looking at the support staff. Meeting — calling, yesterday, calling our head athletic trainer, talking to our head of P.R. I’m thinking, we got good people here. And that’s exciting to be a part of.”

League rules do not allow that. While it often happens, it rarely comes to light so clearly. It’s exactly the kind of thing that could get the league to mobilize, even though it typically looks the other way when it comes to tampering.

Sometimes, it’s just too obvious. Sometimes, it’s just too blatant. Sometimes, the league has to do something, even if it doesn’t want to.
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Re: 2024 Free Agents

Post by allday1991 »

Cliff wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 9:08 am
allday1991 wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 4:02 am Hearing Kirk admitted flat out in the falcons presser to talking to the organization before the end of the no talk period. Anyone have any idea how this might play out? If they lose a draft pick do we get it?
It seems like he had the team's blessing on it. The team isn't dumb, the Falcons signed a player healing from a season ending injury within 90 minutes. If they were upset it would have been different. It seems like they knew them and Kirk wouldn't come to a deal and it was a no hard feelings situation.

If the team doesn't feel wronged or gave their blessing there's no victim. In fact, it was probably helpful for the team to know in advance what Kirk was going to do. Let him look into it, do the dealing before FA opens, and be ready. It helped them know they could immediately start signing FA players with their new cap space and situation.

The league might have to take action just because it was so obvious though.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootba ... ing-period
“There’s great people here,” Cousins said. “And it’s not just the football team. I mean, I’m looking at the support staff. Meeting — calling, yesterday, calling our head athletic trainer, talking to our head of P.R. I’m thinking, we got good people here. And that’s exciting to be a part of.”

League rules do not allow that. While it often happens, it rarely comes to light so clearly. It’s exactly the kind of thing that could get the league to mobilize, even though it typically looks the other way when it comes to tampering.

Sometimes, it’s just too obvious. Sometimes, it’s just too blatant. Sometimes, the league has to do something, even if it doesn’t want to.
Was also reading up to three weeks ago Kyle Pitts was texting him and talking to trainers. Pitts texted “we are ready for you to take us to the promised land”. If the Vikings did have an offer on the table but he already knew the Falcons offer was much higher (something he shouldn’t have known?) that definitely could of effected the out come no?
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Re: 2024 Free Agents

Post by cmoss84 »

The NFL is already investigating them and Philly...
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
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Re: 2024 Free Agents

Post by VikingsVictorious »

VikingLord wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:49 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:16 am

I'm perfectly OK with McCarthy at 11. I'm assuming Williams and Daniel's go 1-2. If McCarthy is gone either trade back for an extra pick or take the BPA and trade back into the first round and get our QB there.
I think it's too high for McCarthy on an objective basis, especially given the DE and DB talent likely to be available at that pick. The only reason any QB not named Caleb Williams is talked about as a 1st round prospect in this year's draft is because so many teams are so desperate at the position and believe they can somehow develop a player in a situation that almost demands an immediate return on investment and the immediate pressure that goes along with that. That's one of the reasons I said Penix is likely to become a regular starter from this year's QB class. He's older and has more experience in college and he's less likely to be under immediate pressure to become a starter and a star on whatever team drafts him. That blast wave of the heat and pressure of a immediately starting on what likely is a crappy team won't be there for him.

Jayden Daniels, Drake Maye, JJ McCarthy, etc., on the other hand, won't be so fortunate. All are younger players who are going to be thrown to the wolves right off the bat depending on the team that takes them. It is a lot to deal with. Forget the physical abilities needed to succeed as pros - making that jump to the types of generally bad, desperate teams that usually draft those QBs is by far the greatest hurdle they have to overcome, and few are able to do that.

At least with Darnold on the team if the Vikings do draft McCarthy hopefully he'd have some time to sit and learn and adjust before being thrown out there.
It probably is too high but it could work out. Most people are thinking we have to trade up for him.
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Re: 2024 Free Agents

Post by CharVike »

KAM and KOC press conference about 2024 FA and of course QB. They said the usual stuff about how great Kirk was but they are also confident in slinging Sam. A QB pick in round one isn't necessary at this point. Talked about adding Arron Jones and of course his age, 29, was mentioned by a reporter which it should be. KAM said they put alot into this process to get to this point. IMO they put nothing into the process. I don't even think they have a process. Everything is a wag. Anybody walking could have told Kirk and Hunter to get lost. Top level pros that have a process would have had replacements who are equal or better in place. I don't see it on the roster. We lost D. J. Wonnum to the Panthers. I guess that was part of the process also. Don't keep any pass rushers put sign an often injured guy. Sound familiar? I wonder if we will get a LG anytime soon.
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Re: 2024 Free Agents

Post by IIsweet »

I see it differently Char... Maybe at 11, Could they be trading back and landing multiple picks? I have to believe that they have done their homework and have a few avenues in place. Greenard and Van Ginkel are immediately starting on the edges. Greenard is less $ than Hunter, is here for 4 years, not to mention is younger and hitting his prime where Hunter may be exiting it. I have to also say that Hunter and Wonnum were drafted as 4-3 DEs. Not our scheme so much anymore so the flexibility of the new guys is imperative. Van Ginkel is a huge upgrade over Wonnum. I don't think Flores signs off on these also if not on board.
The Commanders traded away Sam Howell, pretty much guaranteeing that a QB goes at #2 to Washington. The Bears also landed Keenan Allen in a trade. DJ Moore and Keenan Allen is a nice tandem for a QB on a rookie contract. So Caleb Williams at 1 to Chicago. NE traded Mac, so I assume they are staying put and drafting their future signal caller also. Giants and Tennessee are also looking at QB. So what will it take to get to 4 ? Arizona says it loves WR Marvin Harrison. Chargers are legit trade partners and everyone knows it.
I wonder how many QBs the Vikings have 1st rd grades on? Do they feel that they are better than Darnold? Do they feel like next years draft class is better? What is their opinions on QBs Nix, Penix, or someone else and will they trade back into the end of rd1 for a player, much like the Ravens did for Lamar Jackson.
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Re: 2024 Free Agents

Post by fiestavike »

IIsweet wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 3:00 am I see it differently Char... Maybe at 11, Could they be trading back and landing multiple picks? I have to believe that they have done their homework and have a few avenues in place. Greenard and Van Ginkel are immediately starting on the edges. Greenard is less $ than Hunter, is here for 4 years, not to mention is younger and hitting his prime where Hunter may be exiting it. I have to also say that Hunter and Wonnum were drafted as 4-3 DEs. Not our scheme so much anymore so the flexibility of the new guys is imperative. Van Ginkel is a huge upgrade over Wonnum. I don't think Flores signs off on these also if not on board.
The Commanders traded away Sam Howell, pretty much guaranteeing that a QB goes at #2 to Washington. The Bears also landed Keenan Allen in a trade. DJ Moore and Keenan Allen is a nice tandem for a QB on a rookie contract. So Caleb Williams at 1 to Chicago. NE traded Mac, so I assume they are staying put and drafting their future signal caller also. Giants and Tennessee are also looking at QB. So what will it take to get to 4 ? Arizona says it loves WR Marvin Harrison. Chargers are legit trade partners and everyone knows it.
I wonder how many QBs the Vikings have 1st rd grades on? Do they feel that they are better than Darnold? Do they feel like next years draft class is better? What is their opinions on QBs Nix, Penix, or someone else and will they trade back into the end of rd1 for a player, much like the Ravens did for Lamar Jackson.
I think by pick 5 Williams, Daniels, Nix, and McCarthy will all probably be gone. Do we want Maye or Penix at 11? At 32? At all?
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Re: 2024 Free Agents

Post by CharVike »

fiestavike wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 4:44 am
IIsweet wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 3:00 am I see it differently Char... Maybe at 11, Could they be trading back and landing multiple picks? I have to believe that they have done their homework and have a few avenues in place. Greenard and Van Ginkel are immediately starting on the edges. Greenard is less $ than Hunter, is here for 4 years, not to mention is younger and hitting his prime where Hunter may be exiting it. I have to also say that Hunter and Wonnum were drafted as 4-3 DEs. Not our scheme so much anymore so the flexibility of the new guys is imperative. Van Ginkel is a huge upgrade over Wonnum. I don't think Flores signs off on these also if not on board.
The Commanders traded away Sam Howell, pretty much guaranteeing that a QB goes at #2 to Washington. The Bears also landed Keenan Allen in a trade. DJ Moore and Keenan Allen is a nice tandem for a QB on a rookie contract. So Caleb Williams at 1 to Chicago. NE traded Mac, so I assume they are staying put and drafting their future signal caller also. Giants and Tennessee are also looking at QB. So what will it take to get to 4 ? Arizona says it loves WR Marvin Harrison. Chargers are legit trade partners and everyone knows it.
I wonder how many QBs the Vikings have 1st rd grades on? Do they feel that they are better than Darnold? Do they feel like next years draft class is better? What is their opinions on QBs Nix, Penix, or someone else and will they trade back into the end of rd1 for a player, much like the Ravens did for Lamar Jackson.
I think by pick 5 Williams, Daniels, Nix, and McCarthy will all probably be gone. Do we want Maye or Penix at 11? At 32? At all?
I really don't see anything in those top 4 you posted. Particularly Williams and Daniels. Penix I wouldn't touch in any round. He has proven he can't stay healthy. I don't see that changing. I remember Malik Willis being mocked in round 1 to a bunch of teams including us. So far? Nothing.
2021 draft five quarterbacks were selected in the first round — Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields, and Mac Jones — the second highest number of first-round quarterback selections (along with the 1999 and 2018 drafts) after the six selected in 1983. I wanted Mac when he fell to us. He's trying to be a backup.
I think the team will take a QB. Even if the guy is a terrible player it will get most of the fan base fired up and ready to spend money. Just like when Dobbs had a couple good games our fans were ready to put him on the wall of honor. Others posted it guarantees KAM and KOC an additional 3 to 4 years to see it through.
In the end Nick Foles won a Super Bowl and that tells me if that can happen any QB walking can do it. But you better have a D that don't allow many points. You better have a dam good OL who dominate the point.
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Re: 2024 Free Agents

Post by IIsweet »

I was wondering... We will have over $100m in cap space next year. The Vikings might think Darnold could be better than the current group of rookie QBs. Just needs to be surrounded by a good coaching staff. Do we have a strong roster after these additions? Do we need to accumulate draft picks?
Kwesi was in the futures stock market , hopefully they, GM and Scouts, are already looking at the '25 draft classes and impending FA's.
Maybe our QB is in the building? Maybe he is going to be a FA next year?
Maybe we are planning on trading down for additional picks next year to move up for a particular QB?
Maybe we are trading JJ for an impressive haul of picks like KC did?
Maybe.... They like Nix and know that he will be there at 11.
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Re: 2024 Free Agents

Post by CharVike »

IIsweet wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 3:00 am I see it differently Char... Maybe at 11, Could they be trading back and landing multiple picks? I have to believe that they have done their homework and have a few avenues in place. Greenard and Van Ginkel are immediately starting on the edges. Greenard is less $ than Hunter, is here for 4 years, not to mention is younger and hitting his prime where Hunter may be exiting it. I have to also say that Hunter and Wonnum were drafted as 4-3 DEs. Not our scheme so much anymore so the flexibility of the new guys is imperative. Van Ginkel is a huge upgrade over Wonnum. I don't think Flores signs off on these also if not on board.
The Commanders traded away Sam Howell, pretty much guaranteeing that a QB goes at #2 to Washington. The Bears also landed Keenan Allen in a trade. DJ Moore and Keenan Allen is a nice tandem for a QB on a rookie contract. So Caleb Williams at 1 to Chicago. NE traded Mac, so I assume they are staying put and drafting their future signal caller also. Giants and Tennessee are also looking at QB. So what will it take to get to 4 ? Arizona says it loves WR Marvin Harrison. Chargers are legit trade partners and everyone knows it.
I wonder how many QBs the Vikings have 1st rd grades on? Do they feel that they are better than Darnold? Do they feel like next years draft class is better? What is their opinions on QBs Nix, Penix, or someone else and will they trade back into the end of rd1 for a player, much like the Ravens did for Lamar Jackson.
I wonder if Flores was on board for Davenport? Teams allow players to hit FA for reason. Typically it's an end of rookie contract deal and they feel the guy didn't do enough to justify another contract. The Trae Waynes of the world. You will have a few very good players but you better be ready to overpay. Highest bid wins. FA should be easier than the draft. But if you fail at drafting then FA or trade are your only choices. Basically a take what you can get deal. They need to be looking at grocery stores or farms or whatever for the next Kurt Warner.
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Re: 2024 Free Agents

Post by allday1991 »

Vikings just traded up for the Texans 23rd overall pick. Vikings get 23rd overall and the 232nd overall. Texans receive the 42nd overall pick this year and the 188th pick in 2025. I like the trade but what does this mean? Are we trading up? Taking a defender at 11 and Penix or Bo at 23? Thoughts? I like the trade.
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