What now? A golf analogy

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VikingLord
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Re: What now? A golf analogy

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fiestavike wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 5:38 pm The injuries really hurt them, as the turnovers did early in the year, but it was already clear that this team had the potential to amount to something pretty dangerous if they got hot at the right time.
I tried to address those points in my reply to Cliff, but I don't think this year's team was/is objectively different than last year's team in terms of potential. Flores' defense is better, yes, but statistically just middle-of-the-pack league-wise and they've blown multiple chances to win games at the end. To be fair, they've also made plays to win games, but they are far from good enough to believe they could be the difference for the Vikings if they make the playoffs. YMMV on that.

In theory, any team that makes the playoffs could get hot, including the Vikings. But there is a difference between a given team catching lightning in a bottle and riding that wave to a championship and objectively looking at a given team and saying they are in the conversation to legitimately contend for a Superbowl. I've tried to explain why I think that if the Vikings had remained perfectly healthy this year they'd still have fatal flaws that would likely have emerged to sink their chances. With a few key changes this offseason, though, they could potentially overcome them. And as for KOC, he is a young head coach and could still adjust his playcalling to remain more aggressive when his team has the lead. I just don't see these things happening this season, and had Cousins remained healthy and guided the team to another first-round playoff exit, I think there was a good chance we'd see much the same next season as well. At least now they almost have to go in a different direction, and with a little luck and some astute moves on the part of KAM this offseason, the core of a Superbowl contender is there now.
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Re: What now? A golf analogy

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I believe Hall gives us the best chance to win. He was looking great in his start before getting injured.
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Re: What now? A golf analogy

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

Looks like the Vikings are taking the big swing.

Dobbs to start against the Raiders, per vikings.com.
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Re: What now? A golf analogy

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VikingLord wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 7:24 pm
fiestavike wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 5:38 pm The injuries really hurt them, as the turnovers did early in the year, but it was already clear that this team had the potential to amount to something pretty dangerous if they got hot at the right time.
I tried to address those points in my reply to Cliff, but I don't think this year's team was/is objectively different than last year's team in terms of potential. Flores' defense is better, yes, but statistically just middle-of-the-pack league-wise and they've blown multiple chances to win games at the end. To be fair, they've also made plays to win games, but they are far from good enough to believe they could be the difference for the Vikings if they make the playoffs. YMMV on that.

In theory, any team that makes the playoffs could get hot, including the Vikings. But there is a difference between a given team catching lightning in a bottle and riding that wave to a championship and objectively looking at a given team and saying they are in the conversation to legitimately contend for a Superbowl. I've tried to explain why I think that if the Vikings had remained perfectly healthy this year they'd still have fatal flaws that would likely have emerged to sink their chances. With a few key changes this offseason, though, they could potentially overcome them. And as for KOC, he is a young head coach and could still adjust his playcalling to remain more aggressive when his team has the lead. I just don't see these things happening this season, and had Cousins remained healthy and guided the team to another first-round playoff exit, I think there was a good chance we'd see much the same next season as well. At least now they almost have to go in a different direction, and with a little luck and some astute moves on the part of KAM this offseason, the core of a Superbowl contender is there now.
I think we are a better team than last year. On offense adding Risner, Addison, Powell, Oliver and Inrgam's improvement has helped. Yes we got off to a horrible start for the reasons mentioned but it's how you end which is important. Our D improvement would've helped us avoid the 1st round knock out like last year which can be blamed on Cousins but that D never made a stop which is a complete joke. Our D now can make a stop. Wasting our 1st round pick under KAM is a big kick in the rear. Hamilton is turning into a stud and we sit with a dud. You can't miss on players like that. Yes the Bears have a bunch of picks but that's only 1/2 of the equation. They let Stround slide by which may cost the GM and HC their jobs.
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Re: What now? A golf analogy

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J. Kapp 11 wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 1:18 pm Looks like the Vikings are taking the big swing.

Dobbs to start against the Raiders, per vikings.com.
I can't blame them for that. They went with the player that gives them the best chance. They see it everyday. But if things go south I expect KOC to make a change this time around.
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Re: What now? A golf analogy

Post by cmoss84 »

Dobbs is 28, and although he has been with a variety of teams and been in the league for a while, he still has yet to surpass 500 career passing attempts. In fact, until this year, the most attempts he has had in one year is 68. Even though he is a veteran, he still has a lot to prove, and playing time is the only way to see if he is worth keeping around. For all of you Hall fans, Dobbs should be seen in a similar light, with slightly more game time experience. I am a little bias because I like the dude...but I am confident he will play decent the rest of the year, lead us to the playoffs, and sign a cheap, multi-year extension. Will we sign Cousins again? Who the F knows.
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Re: What now? A golf analogy

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cmoss84 wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 6:40 pm Dobbs is 28, and although he has been with a variety of teams and been in the league for a while, he still has yet to surpass 500 career passing attempts. In fact, until this year, the most attempts he has had in one year is 68. Even though he is a veteran, he still has a lot to prove, and playing time is the only way to see if he is worth keeping around. For all of you Hall fans, Dobbs should be seen in a similar light, with slightly more game time experience. I am a little bias because I like the dude...but I am confident he will play decent the rest of the year, lead us to the playoffs, and sign a cheap, multi-year extension. Will we sign Cousins again? Who the F knows.
You can choose to look at it that way, or you can look at it as Dobbs has had more looks over his pro career by more teams and after seeing what he brings to the table not one of them chose to give him more chances. And let's face it, the Vikings were more or less forced to give him the chance he has now. Had Hall not gotten hurt against the Falcons, he'd likely still be the starting QB and we'd be talking about whether Mullens might step in if Hall struggled.

Like you, I liked what Dobbs did in his first two games with the Vikings. He used his legs when in doubt and sans his rough start against the Falcons, kept the number of mistakes at an acceptable level. Since then, however, he's been much less effective as a runner, more tentative and inaccurate as a passer, and more prone to costly mistakes. I don't feel like Dobbs was the main reason for the loss against Denver, but he contributed to it. Against the Bears, Dobbs was just awful. Again, not the sole reason for that loss either, but he made major contributions to it. He doesn't seem to trust his reads, lacks good timing, and just generally struggles with accuracy.

I think he gets one more chance against the Raiders. If he plays better, he'll get another chance. If he continues to perform poorly, he won't, and I don't see the Vikings keeping him around for next season regardless in that scenario.
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Re: What now? A golf analogy

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

cmoss84 wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2023 6:40 pm Dobbs is 28, and although he has been with a variety of teams and been in the league for a while, he still has yet to surpass 500 career passing attempts. In fact, until this year, the most attempts he has had in one year is 68. Even though he is a veteran, he still has a lot to prove, and playing time is the only way to see if he is worth keeping around. For all of you Hall fans, Dobbs should be seen in a similar light, with slightly more game time experience. I am a little bias because I like the dude...but I am confident he will play decent the rest of the year, lead us to the playoffs, and sign a cheap, multi-year extension. Will we sign Cousins again? Who the F knows.
The other thing is that he has yet to play a down with Justin Jefferson.

Wes Phillips put it well in his press conference. Teams are figuring out what to do with Jordan Addison. They're getting more and more film on him as the WR1, and they're coming up with answers. We saw that with Jaylon Johnson of the Bears, who pretty much took Addison out of the game.

But, as Phillips said ... there is no answer for Justin Jefferson.

That's got to help a guy like Dobbs.
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Re: What now? A golf analogy

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Some good points being brought up...and it made me curious who Dobbs was playing behind at each of his respective teams:

2018-2020 - stuck behind Big Ben
2022 - behind Ryan Tannehill
2023 - emergency QB for Ari and MN

This year, in roughly 400 attempts, he is throwing at about a 65% completion rate with 13TD and 10INT. He also has 400 yards rushing and 6 rushing TDs. He really hasn't been given a chance until this year. Obviously the jury is still out, but there is some promise and potential there. A little patience might be necessary.
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Re: What now? A golf analogy

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cmoss84 wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2023 2:39 pm Some good points being brought up...and it made me curious who Dobbs was playing behind at each of his respective teams:

2018-2020 - stuck behind Big Ben
2022 - behind Ryan Tannehill
2023 - emergency QB for Ari and MN

This year, in roughly 400 attempts, he is throwing at about a 65% completion rate with 13TD and 10INT. He also has 400 yards rushing and 6 rushing TDs. He really hasn't been given a chance until this year. Obviously the jury is still out, but there is some promise and potential there. A little patience might be necessary.
He was also in Detroit behind Jared Goff. In fact, he was claimed by the Titans off the Lions' practice squad last year on December 22. Ryan Tannehill was hurt and Malik Willis was stinking up the joint, so on December 29, just one week after being acquired, Dobbs started for the Titans against the Cowboys. He also started the final week of the season against Jacksonville.

This year, he went through training camp with Cleveland and was buried on the depth chart behind Deshaun Watson and Dorian Thompson-Robinson. Cleveland traded him to the Cardinals on August 24. Training camp was all but over by that time. The Cardinals played the Vikings in the final preseason game on August 26, a game during which Dobbs of course saw no action. On Sept. 6, he was named the Cardinals' opening day starter. That mean he had about two weeks with them prior to being named. Five days later, he started their season opener. And of course we all know what happened with the Vikings ... thrown into the game 4 days after being acquired.

In other words, Josh Dobbs has been buried behind unquestioned franchise quarterbacks his entire career. The few starts he has gotten — with Tennessee, with Arizona, and with the Vikings — have all come after spending anywhere from 4 days to 3 weeks with the team.

You are correct. Patience is needed.
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Re: What now? A golf analogy

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Here's hoping Dobbs plays well. He is the starting QB for our Minnesota Vikings. :govikes:
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Re: What now? A golf analogy

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cmoss84 wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2023 2:39 pm Some good points being brought up...and it made me curious who Dobbs was playing behind at each of his respective teams:

2018-2020 - stuck behind Big Ben
2022 - behind Ryan Tannehill
2023 - emergency QB for Ari and MN

This year, in roughly 400 attempts, he is throwing at about a 65% completion rate with 13TD and 10INT. He also has 400 yards rushing and 6 rushing TDs. He really hasn't been given a chance until this year. Obviously the jury is still out, but there is some promise and potential there. A little patience might be necessary.
The jury is done and Dobbs is out. At least until Mullens gets hurt, which he will behind our trash Oline. I think half of them are injured.
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Re: What now? A golf analogy

Post by Cliff »

Mullens is up and I knew less about him than I thought I did, I guess I had him mixed up with a different player. Anyway, he's more or less in the same boat as Dobbs. His most significant action was with the 49ers in 2020 and stats-wise it's better than any of the seasons Dobbs has had.

Time to roll the dice!
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Re: What now? A golf analogy

Post by cmoss84 »

Guess we should have signed Flacco!
:rofl:

we are in trouble...but still have a chance of winning our division. What a weird season.
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Re: What now? A golf analogy

Post by Cliff »

Dobbs is officially 3rd string.