Who Starts?

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CharVike
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Re: Who Starts?

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makila wrote: Sun Jan 21, 2024 11:12 am Jordan Love, in year ONE starting, has as many playoff wins as our QB in year 10 or whatever. Bash him? Love played very well down the stretch this year. With no WR even in the same world as JJ. Looks like GB has their next qb. GB wasn't supposed to make the playoff this year. Let alone win a game. Did he make a poor decision at the end of the game? Yup. He also had some very impressive throws during the game. If you think there is no way for someone to grow or learn, after their FIRST year starting, I question the logic.

They have a direction. We don't.

Even Tom Brady lost games during his playoff career.
I never posted Love couldn't learn or grow. I did post his OL improved as the season went along. Maybe that's not true but I did read that. We don't have a direction is correct. That's been going on since I started following in 1970. Not being able to draft well has been our downfall for a long time. But I think slamming the Packers WRs is short sighted. I seen guys wide open against the 49ers. Love hit most of them. He missed a few and threw a couple picks. Do they have a JJ? Probably not. But it's not a bunch of Osborns out there either.
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Re: Who Starts?

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CharVike wrote: Sun Jan 21, 2024 3:52 pm
Cliff wrote: Sun Jan 21, 2024 9:42 am

This is his first year starting so I imagine he's got a bit of learning left. I know in his first season he took an average team and got a playoff victory. He now has the same number of playoff wins as Cousins.
I posted I don't think they would decline the pick of Love. I also posted his OL got better as the season went along. The 49ers have a very good D and the Packer RB Jones rushed for over 100 yards. I think that helps a QB when you can run the ball. I think the Packers played better as a team as they progressed through the season. We hammered them early in the season and they hammered us the second time around. We beat the 49ers but I highly doubt we could have done it after week 8. To win in the playoffs your entire team better play well our you will get beat. Dak just got beat again but his D didn't show up. Jimmy G has one of the best playoff records of all current QBs and he can't even keep a starting job. Love could go on to be another Packer HOF QB I certainly don't want to see that. I already watched 2 in a row and that's enough for me.
No question football is a team sport but the root of the discussion is GB seemingly having a very good way of handling the QB position and I would like to see the Vikings do something at least somewhat similar. From there it was brought up that if GB had a do-over they would decline on Love. Love then went on to help a middling team get into the playoffs and actually win a game.

Really it's not even about Love. It's about a team actually trying to make sure there's a future at the QB position. They spent 1st rounders when they had clearcut starters and even star players because they were looking forward. The Vikings won't even draft a QB in the 1st round with a QB like Cousins on the roster (Older and never an all-star type player).
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Re: Who Starts?

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Cliff wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:15 am
CharVike wrote: Sun Jan 21, 2024 3:52 pm
I posted I don't think they would decline the pick of Love. I also posted his OL got better as the season went along. The 49ers have a very good D and the Packer RB Jones rushed for over 100 yards. I think that helps a QB when you can run the ball. I think the Packers played better as a team as they progressed through the season. We hammered them early in the season and they hammered us the second time around. We beat the 49ers but I highly doubt we could have done it after week 8. To win in the playoffs your entire team better play well our you will get beat. Dak just got beat again but his D didn't show up. Jimmy G has one of the best playoff records of all current QBs and he can't even keep a starting job. Love could go on to be another Packer HOF QB I certainly don't want to see that. I already watched 2 in a row and that's enough for me.
No question football is a team sport but the root of the discussion is GB seemingly having a very good way of handling the QB position and I would like to see the Vikings do something at least somewhat similar. From there it was brought up that if GB had a do-over they would decline on Love. Love then went on to help a middling team get into the playoffs and actually win a game.

Really it's not even about Love. It's about a team actually trying to make sure there's a future at the QB position. They spent 1st rounders when they had clearcut starters and even star players because they were looking forward. The Vikings won't even draft a QB in the 1st round with a QB like Cousins on the roster (Older and never an all-star type player).
GB traded for Farve and drafted Rodgers when he slipped in the draft. They have had very good GMs. I would like to see us handle it also. I was hoping we would pick Lock and then Jones. Both are total bums so my judgment is horrible. It's just draft talk. Caleb could fall to us and he's considered the best ever. Another Andrew Luck I guess. I wouldn't touch him but I'm not a good evaluator. I think Cousins is a good QB. He won the division last year with the worst defense I have ever seen us have. He got beat in the playoff game. People will pin that entirely on him which is ok it's just a fans opinion. I've seen some post that our offense is loaded across the board with talent an any QB would thrive with this group. We all seen that isn't true this year. We couldn't even score a TD against the Raiders and only 10 points against the Bears on MNF. IMO our OL is a weak link and I would like that fixed 1st. All these SB contending teams have strong OLs. It's a must have. If Cousins wants to win he should go to Atlanta. They have a better base team than us and play in a weak division. But every player states that they want to win. It's part of the act. If it was true nobody would sign with the Panthers. Our older star Theilan signed with them. Money must be more important. I don't fault the guy for that. Some say Cousins only wants the money and nothing else. They are all like that but can't say it.
I got off track. Sorry.
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Re: Who Starts?

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Cliff wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:15 am It's about a team actually trying to make sure there's a future at the QB position. They spent 1st rounders when they had clearcut starters and even star players because they were looking forward. The Vikings won't even draft a QB in the 1st round with a QB like Cousins on the roster (Older and never an all-star type player).
This is setting up to be a terrible draft for getting a good QB prospect at #11 IMHO. The top 3 prospects (Williams, Maye, Daniels) will be gone likely with the first 3 picks, and by the time #11 rolls around the Vikings would either have to do a Ponder-esque reach into a gaggle of 2nd-tier prospects or just go BPA and see how things shake out the rest of the draft. With no 3rd rounder I don't see how they could move up into the early 2nd or late 1st if there was still a QB on the board they liked at that point in the draft, either, and to be honest I'm not sure there is one who would merit that move even if they could make it.

In short, while I'd like to see the Vikings get a young player at QB who could reasonably be expected to develop into a regular or even impact starter at some point, I just don't see how they do that this year without either making a major trade up or a major reach. If they choose the latter move, they'll do it at the cost of some solid talent at other positions of real immediate need as well. The way things are setting up in the 1st, there are likely to be some excellent DE and CB prospects on the board at #11. KAM can't exactly afford to pass those guys up as the team is in dire need at both positions.

Lastly, KAM could try another trade down ala what he pulled with the Lions in his first year as the GM. All I can say there if he does that is please get more value out of it, *especially* if he trades with a team in the division. He just can't afford to miss on his early picks like he did in his first draft. That is true whether he stays at 11 or moves back, but more true if he moves back as he'd be leaving some clear-cut prospects with proven production on the table if he moves out of the 11th spot.

The Vikings are going to have to bring Cousins back. I just don't see how they avoid it at this point. And honestly, that wouldn't be the worst thing for them. I'm afraid if they don't bring Cousins back we'll just wind up with another first round reach for a QB who is as likely to flame out as succeed as a pro. At #11 in a draft a GM has to choose a prospect whose odds favor him becoming a successful pro.
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Re: Who Starts?

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VikingLord wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2024 5:08 pm
Cliff wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:15 am It's about a team actually trying to make sure there's a future at the QB position. They spent 1st rounders when they had clearcut starters and even star players because they were looking forward. The Vikings won't even draft a QB in the 1st round with a QB like Cousins on the roster (Older and never an all-star type player).
This is setting up to be a terrible draft for getting a good QB prospect at #11 IMHO. The top 3 prospects (Williams, Maye, Daniels) will be gone likely with the first 3 picks, and by the time #11 rolls around the Vikings would either have to do a Ponder-esque reach into a gaggle of 2nd-tier prospects or just go BPA and see how things shake out the rest of the draft. With no 3rd rounder I don't see how they could move up into the early 2nd or late 1st if there was still a QB on the board they liked at that point in the draft, either, and to be honest I'm not sure there is one who would merit that move even if they could make it.

In short, while I'd like to see the Vikings get a young player at QB who could reasonably be expected to develop into a regular or even impact starter at some point, I just don't see how they do that this year without either making a major trade up or a major reach. If they choose the latter move, they'll do it at the cost of some solid talent at other positions of real immediate need as well. The way things are setting up in the 1st, there are likely to be some excellent DE and CB prospects on the board at #11. KAM can't exactly afford to pass those guys up as the team is in dire need at both positions.

Lastly, KAM could try another trade down ala what he pulled with the Lions in his first year as the GM. All I can say there if he does that is please get more value out of it, *especially* if he trades with a team in the division. He just can't afford to miss on his early picks like he did in his first draft. That is true whether he stays at 11 or moves back, but more true if he moves back as he'd be leaving some clear-cut prospects with proven production on the table if he moves out of the 11th spot.

The Vikings are going to have to bring Cousins back. I just don't see how they avoid it at this point. And honestly, that wouldn't be the worst thing for them. I'm afraid if they don't bring Cousins back we'll just wind up with another first round reach for a QB who is as likely to flame out as succeed as a pro. At #11 in a draft a GM has to choose a prospect whose odds favor him becoming a successful pro.
At #11 in a draft a GM has to choose a prospect whose odds favor him becoming a successful pro. Right there is the only way to build a team. You must draft extremely well. Not only QB but every position. This trading down is dumber than dumb. The chance of that working is as close to zero as you can get. The Bears did it last year and missed a stud. He needs to stay put and grab the best player regardless of the position. Our roster isn't stacked with the "best of the best" it's the complete opposite. We are all creatures of habit so I expect a trade down again and we will have another draft with zero impact players. There will be some really good players that will fall in our lap again. Take the stud. They make every player around them better. Unfortunately IMO KAM is in over his head. This stiff Cine played a grand total of 8 snaps on defense this past season. That's 466K per snap. He has an easy NFL life. Why is he on the roster? Because he was a 1st round pick. You can't build a SB roster like that. You also can't wait X number of years for a 1st round pick to help out. In the current NFL rookies start quickly. The Rams just showed that and they had a very good season. They are above the competitive rebuild garbage teams which is 75% of our conference. Kwesi also has no clue about contracts. Matti is a perfect example of that. Davenport is another. It goes on and on. I don't know Cousins from Adams but I'm sure he likes money and winning. He will listen to his agent. They want money also. The more Kirk gets the more he gets.
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Re: Who Starts?

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VikingLord wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2024 5:08 pm
Cliff wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:15 am It's about a team actually trying to make sure there's a future at the QB position. They spent 1st rounders when they had clearcut starters and even star players because they were looking forward. The Vikings won't even draft a QB in the 1st round with a QB like Cousins on the roster (Older and never an all-star type player).
This is setting up to be a terrible draft for getting a good QB prospect at #11 IMHO. The top 3 prospects (Williams, Maye, Daniels) will be gone likely with the first 3 picks, and by the time #11 rolls around the Vikings would either have to do a Ponder-esque reach into a gaggle of 2nd-tier prospects or just go BPA and see how things shake out the rest of the draft. With no 3rd rounder I don't see how they could move up into the early 2nd or late 1st if there was still a QB on the board they liked at that point in the draft, either, and to be honest I'm not sure there is one who would merit that move even if they could make it.

In short, while I'd like to see the Vikings get a young player at QB who could reasonably be expected to develop into a regular or even impact starter at some point, I just don't see how they do that this year without either making a major trade up or a major reach. If they choose the latter move, they'll do it at the cost of some solid talent at other positions of real immediate need as well. The way things are setting up in the 1st, there are likely to be some excellent DE and CB prospects on the board at #11. KAM can't exactly afford to pass those guys up as the team is in dire need at both positions.

Lastly, KAM could try another trade down ala what he pulled with the Lions in his first year as the GM. All I can say there if he does that is please get more value out of it, *especially* if he trades with a team in the division. He just can't afford to miss on his early picks like he did in his first draft. That is true whether he stays at 11 or moves back, but more true if he moves back as he'd be leaving some clear-cut prospects with proven production on the table if he moves out of the 11th spot.

The Vikings are going to have to bring Cousins back. I just don't see how they avoid it at this point. And honestly, that wouldn't be the worst thing for them. I'm afraid if they don't bring Cousins back we'll just wind up with another first round reach for a QB who is as likely to flame out as succeed as a pro. At #11 in a draft a GM has to choose a prospect whose odds favor him becoming a successful pro.
I don't know if it's likely but it's definitely possible. And if the right scenario doesn't happen then it doesn't happen. I do think Marvin Harrison Jr. might change that a bit. If one of the top 3 were to make it past the Patriots I'd be ok with them trading up to pick 5 to get him.

Originally my thought process was hoping they'd bring Cousins back for at least a year or two and draft a QB to sit behind him. Though I don't think he'll accept anything less than 3. Now I'm just not sure. Kirk's at the age where QBs often start to decline and that was before his injury.
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Re: Who Starts?

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Cliff wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 10:19 am I don't know if it's likely but it's definitely possible. And if the right scenario doesn't happen then it doesn't happen. I do think Marvin Harrison Jr. might change that a bit. If one of the top 3 were to make it past the Patriots I'd be ok with them trading up to pick 5 to get him.

Originally my thought process was hoping they'd bring Cousins back for at least a year or two and draft a QB to sit behind him. Though I don't think he'll accept anything less than 3. Now I'm just not sure. Kirk's at the age where QBs often start to decline and that was before his injury.
Harrison Jr. could alter things at the top for sure, and I do see mocks that show Daniels sliding to #11, but I still think the cost to get one of the top 3 QBs in this draft is going to be too high for the Vikings.

Going beyond that, I'm not even sure any of the top 3 QBs are truly elite prospects. Williams shows elite traits, but he's also got some serious question marks around him from what I've read in terms of his character and as a teammate. His ability to freelance is both a strength and a potential liability, and while I am fairly confident he'll go in the first 3 picks, I'm not as sold on him as I was a few months ago. Mayes is a good prospect, but I'm not sure he's an elite one. He will likely become a good pro and a consistent starter, but I am not convinced his ceiling is high enough to justify a move up for him for a team like the Vikings. And Daniels I like, but he performed at a high level in college for only his last season. Prior to that he didn't really stand out, so he's a bit more of a gamble.

The 2nd tier QBs - Penix, Nix and McCarthy all have some serious question marks in their respective games. I'd say the odds of any of that group becoming impact starters in the pros is pretty low, probably around the same odds as Christian Ponder.

In essence, the Vikings find themselves in almost the same situation as when they drafted Ponder - needing a young QB that can hopefully develop into an impact starter, but at a draft position that doesn't really lend itself to finding that player. They reached with Ponder and he flamed out. I'm hopeful they won't do the same this year with someone else.

I think if they don't bring Cousins back they'll be dead in the water for a while no matter what they do in the draft unless they get really lucky. IIRC, Cousins is on the books for north of $28 million of dead cap if he doesn't sign, so that will hurt their competitiveness in free agency plus they'll get no production out of him at the QB position, which is quite frankly unconscionable. I think they'll bring him back. As to what they get out of him in terms of production, that's a different question. I agree he's likely to start to tail off, but he's in a pretty good situation overall if he returns and I also think his return will make extending JJ much more likely.
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Re: Who Starts?

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Here is an interesting mock and has us trading up with the Bears 1st pick

Trade: Bears get Nos. 11, 42, 126, and 2025 first and second-round pick; Vikings get No. 1 and 2025 sixth-round pick

Round 1, Pick 1: Minnesota Vikings (From CHI): Drake Maye, QB, North Carolina
Arm profile.
His arm strength is a standout feature, enabling him to make all the throws with velocity and precision. Maye's versatility in delivering both bullet passes and touch throws adds a dynamic layer to his game. He's also adept at making plays on the move, showcasing impressive off-platform throwing ability. That's what I like great arm strength. You can't teach that. He's also 6'4" 230 ILBs. and can run well. IMO that's great size.
https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/vik ... t-from-pfn

With Harbough going to the Chargers maybe he will take his guy JJ Mccarthy and we get Herbert for some picks.
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Re: Who Starts?

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VikingLord wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:40 pm Harrison Jr. could alter things at the top for sure, and I do see mocks that show Daniels sliding to #11, but I still think the cost to get one of the top 3 QBs in this draft is going to be too high for the Vikings.
There are some reports that the Vikings went after a prospect last year and had a ton on the table but they wouldn't take it. If the right prospect falls out of the top 3 I wouldn't be surprised if they make a move. They've got to get a QB that may actually have a long term future with the team.
Going beyond that, I'm not even sure any of the top 3 QBs are truly elite prospects. Williams shows elite traits, but he's also got some serious question marks around him from what I've read in terms of his character and as a teammate. His ability to freelance is both a strength and a potential liability, and while I am fairly confident he'll go in the first 3 picks, I'm not as sold on him as I was a few months ago. Mayes is a good prospect, but I'm not sure he's an elite one. He will likely become a good pro and a consistent starter, but I am not convinced his ceiling is high enough to justify a move up for him for a team like the Vikings. And Daniels I like, but he performed at a high level in college for only his last season. Prior to that he didn't really stand out, so he's a bit more of a gamble.
I know next to nothing about college football. I do know that basically nobody seems to consistently have any idea which QBs are actually going to be great. I know they're all a gamble but the Vikings need to make that gamble. They've got a very QB friendly coach great weapons. It would be great if Kirk could sit in front of him for at least one season. I think that's likely why they wanted to draft a QB so badly last year ... if that rumor is true.

I'm ok with above average play. He doesn't need to be a super star to be a success. Having a competent QB on the roster on a rookie deal is a huge advantage. If he turns out to be a super star all the better, but either way you can actually start to build a more complete team around him because you've got that extra money.

The 2nd tier QBs - Penix, Nix and McCarthy all have some serious question marks in their respective games. I'd say the odds of any of that group becoming impact starters in the pros is pretty low, probably around the same odds as Christian Ponder.

In essence, the Vikings find themselves in almost the same situation as when they drafted Ponder - needing a young QB that can hopefully develop into an impact starter, but at a draft position that doesn't really lend itself to finding that player. They reached with Ponder and he flamed out. I'm hopeful they won't do the same this year with someone else.

I think if they don't bring Cousins back they'll be dead in the water for a while no matter what they do in the draft unless they get really lucky. IIRC, Cousins is on the books for north of $28 million of dead cap if he doesn't sign, so that will hurt their competitiveness in free agency plus they'll get no production out of him at the QB position, which is quite frankly unconscionable. I think they'll bring him back. As to what they get out of him in terms of production, that's a different question. I agree he's likely to start to tail off, but he's in a pretty good situation overall if he returns and I also think his return will make extending JJ much more likely.
I don't know enough about any of them to give a solid opinion. If one of them is our only option then I'd like to at least give it a shot. The fact of the matter is having Kirk on the team doesn't necessarily mean Kirk is playing. He's been able to stay healthy most of his career and has had great durability but that can't last. Is this significant non-contact injury the beginning?

If they bring in Kirk they'll still have to invest significantly in whoever is behind him. Whether that's draft picks or picking up someone decent in free agency.
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Re: Who Starts?

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CharVike wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:51 pm Here is an interesting mock and has us trading up with the Bears 1st pick

Trade: Bears get Nos. 11, 42, 126, and 2025 first and second-round pick; Vikings get No. 1 and 2025 sixth-round pick

Round 1, Pick 1: Minnesota Vikings (From CHI): Drake Maye, QB, North Carolina
Arm profile.
His arm strength is a standout feature, enabling him to make all the throws with velocity and precision. Maye's versatility in delivering both bullet passes and touch throws adds a dynamic layer to his game. He's also adept at making plays on the move, showcasing impressive off-platform throwing ability. That's what I like great arm strength. You can't teach that. He's also 6'4" 230 ILBs. and can run well. IMO that's great size.
https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/vik ... t-from-pfn

With Harbough going to the Chargers maybe he will take his guy JJ Mccarthy and we get Herbert for some picks.
If the Vikings actually did this trade, KAM should be fired immediately and have to pay back his salary.

First, that trade would be with another divisional rival and net that divisional rival a bounty of additional draft capital over two years, making them relatively stronger and younger while the Vikings get a single player in return.

As for that player, Drake Maye is a decent pro prospect. He's got some plus traits, sure, but he's been compared to Jared Goff and Kenny Pickett in terms of pro potential. While those are good pro QB's, I doubt either of them would have been picked 1st in their respective drafts if those drafts were done over with hindsight, and for sure any GM that would have given up a king's ransom to move up to 1st and draft them in a draft do-over would have been fired with prejudice.

The sad fact is, as much as the Vikings need a young, franchise QB, there just isn't an obvious one in this year's draft past Caleb Williams, and he's only a marginal franchise prospect when all things are considered.

Personally, the more I look at this upcoming draft the more I think a trade down to between 20-25 would be ideal as long as it nets the Vikings an additional 3rd round pick this year. There will be some very good DE's and CB's on the board at #11 and KAM would probably be well-served to stay put there and take one of them, but trading back into the early 20's would put him in a position to take a flyer on one of the 2nd tier QB prospects without reaching, plus he'd put the Vikings back into play in the 3rd where he can get some more help for the defensive side of the ball or the interior OL.
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Re: Who Starts?

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VikingLord wrote: Sat Jan 27, 2024 7:24 pm
CharVike wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:51 pm Here is an interesting mock and has us trading up with the Bears 1st pick

Trade: Bears get Nos. 11, 42, 126, and 2025 first and second-round pick; Vikings get No. 1 and 2025 sixth-round pick

Round 1, Pick 1: Minnesota Vikings (From CHI): Drake Maye, QB, North Carolina
Arm profile.
His arm strength is a standout feature, enabling him to make all the throws with velocity and precision. Maye's versatility in delivering both bullet passes and touch throws adds a dynamic layer to his game. He's also adept at making plays on the move, showcasing impressive off-platform throwing ability. That's what I like great arm strength. You can't teach that. He's also 6'4" 230 ILBs. and can run well. IMO that's great size.
https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/vik ... t-from-pfn

With Harbough going to the Chargers maybe he will take his guy JJ Mccarthy and we get Herbert for some picks.
If the Vikings actually did this trade, KAM should be fired immediately and have to pay back his salary.

First, that trade would be with another divisional rival and net that divisional rival a bounty of additional draft capital over two years, making them relatively stronger and younger while the Vikings get a single player in return.

As for that player, Drake Maye is a decent pro prospect. He's got some plus traits, sure, but he's been compared to Jared Goff and Kenny Pickett in terms of pro potential. While those are good pro QB's, I doubt either of them would have been picked 1st in their respective drafts if those drafts were done over with hindsight, and for sure any GM that would have given up a king's ransom to move up to 1st and draft them in a draft do-over would have been fired with prejudice.

The sad fact is, as much as the Vikings need a young, franchise QB, there just isn't an obvious one in this year's draft past Caleb Williams, and he's only a marginal franchise prospect when all things are considered.

Personally, the more I look at this upcoming draft the more I think a trade down to between 20-25 would be ideal as long as it nets the Vikings an additional 3rd round pick this year. There will be some very good DE's and CB's on the board at #11 and KAM would probably be well-served to stay put there and take one of them, but trading back into the early 20's would put him in a position to take a flyer on one of the 2nd tier QB prospects without reaching, plus he'd put the Vikings back into play in the 3rd where he can get some more help for the defensive side of the ball or the interior OL.
What I agree with is this class really doesn't have an Andrew Luck were every scout, reporter and team knew he had tremendous skills. You had the suck for Luck teams which was cool to see. Losing for that 1st pick. There really isn't a clear cut No 1. I don't like trade downs. Of course if every possible stud player is gone by pick 11 then sure move down. I'm not against the 2nd tier QB either. The Michigan JJ guy seems like a good pick. I think the guy is a winner as was Mac Jones. If we keep Cousins for 2 more years and let him sit and learn that would be ideal for me. But ideal for me hasn't happened in 53 years of following so it won't happen now. I could see a trade down but skipping a stud and picking another Waynes type of CB and getting the 6th rounder he gave away for nothing back. That was a good read you just posted. I'm not really down on our team. Injuries knocked us out of having a chance. I like a young coach like KOC and I like that he lets his D coordinator handle that side. I also think him and Flores have a good relationship which is key. Firing his 1st D coordinator was also good. He didn't wait which shows he wants to win now. KAM I'm not sold at all. He missed some very good players his 1st draft and I won't cut him any slack. That's how a team is built. Draft above the rest. When studs are there make the pick.
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Re: Who Starts?

Post by VikingLord »

CharVike wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:21 pm The Michigan JJ guy seems like a good pick.
McCarthy is kind of a loose cannon who struggles to read the field well. He throws a nice, catchable ball, but his play is highly variable. He reminds me of a bigger Johnny Manziel in some ways. I think of the 2nd tier QBs in this year's draft he'd be the one I'd be least thrilled to get, even in the 3rd (assuming KAM moves back up into the 3rd).
CharVike wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:21 pm I think the guy is a winner as was Mac Jones.
I never did understand why you liked Jones so much. He did have a decent 1st year, but he also took over a team that had a lot of talent on it. As the talent drained away, he was exposed as a pretty average QB.
CharVike wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:21 pm If we keep Cousins for 2 more years and let him sit and learn that would be ideal for me. But ideal for me hasn't happened in 53 years of following so it won't happen now. I could see a trade down but skipping a stud and picking another Waynes type of CB and getting the 6th rounder he gave away for nothing back. That was a good read you just posted. I'm not really down on our team. Injuries knocked us out of having a chance. I like a young coach like KOC and I like that he lets his D coordinator handle that side. I also think him and Flores have a good relationship which is key. Firing his 1st D coordinator was also good. He didn't wait which shows he wants to win now. KAM I'm not sold at all. He missed some very good players his 1st draft and I won't cut him any slack. That's how a team is built. Draft above the rest. When studs are there make the pick.
I think they will bring Cousins back. I'd peg the chances of that at around 90% right now. The Vikings are in a bind at QB even if they manage to draft a guy they like, and Cousins is a fit in KOC's offense and with the team. It just makes sense and I think another team would have to offer Cousins something eye watering to prevent it from happening.

As for the future, the main concern I have is that the Vikings are still riding a veteran wave while almost all of our divisional opponents have caught the next wave. All of them are younger than we overall, which is concerning given how well the Lions and Packers did this year. The Bears are set up well to stock up their team. So divisionally, it's going to be tough sledding even if the Vikings don't get hit by the injury bug and manage to keep their key vet FAs.

I think if they can keep the team intact, KAM finds gems in this draft, and they avoid the bad luck and injuries that plagued them this season, the Vikings will be in the mix next year. But it could just as easily go south, too, with dramatic tailoffs in performance by key vets and more bad luck in the draft. This is going to be a key offseason for this team in many different ways.
CharVike
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Re: Who Starts?

Post by CharVike »

VikingLord wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2024 12:02 pm
CharVike wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:21 pm The Michigan JJ guy seems like a good pick.
McCarthy is kind of a loose cannon who struggles to read the field well. He throws a nice, catchable ball, but his play is highly variable. He reminds me of a bigger Johnny Manziel in some ways. I think of the 2nd tier QBs in this year's draft he'd be the one I'd be least thrilled to get, even in the 3rd (assuming KAM moves back up into the 3rd).
CharVike wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:21 pm I think the guy is a winner as was Mac Jones.
I never did understand why you liked Jones so much. He did have a decent 1st year, but he also took over a team that had a lot of talent on it. As the talent drained away, he was exposed as a pretty average QB.
CharVike wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:21 pm If we keep Cousins for 2 more years and let him sit and learn that would be ideal for me. But ideal for me hasn't happened in 53 years of following so it won't happen now. I could see a trade down but skipping a stud and picking another Waynes type of CB and getting the 6th rounder he gave away for nothing back. That was a good read you just posted. I'm not really down on our team. Injuries knocked us out of having a chance. I like a young coach like KOC and I like that he lets his D coordinator handle that side. I also think him and Flores have a good relationship which is key. Firing his 1st D coordinator was also good. He didn't wait which shows he wants to win now. KAM I'm not sold at all. He missed some very good players his 1st draft and I won't cut him any slack. That's how a team is built. Draft above the rest. When studs are there make the pick.
I think they will bring Cousins back. I'd peg the chances of that at around 90% right now. The Vikings are in a bind at QB even if they manage to draft a guy they like, and Cousins is a fit in KOC's offense and with the team. It just makes sense and I think another team would have to offer Cousins something eye watering to prevent it from happening.

As for the future, the main concern I have is that the Vikings are still riding a veteran wave while almost all of our divisional opponents have caught the next wave. All of them are younger than we overall, which is concerning given how well the Lions and Packers did this year. The Bears are set up well to stock up their team. So divisionally, it's going to be tough sledding even if the Vikings don't get hit by the injury bug and manage to keep their key vet FAs.

I think if they can keep the team intact, KAM finds gems in this draft, and they avoid the bad luck and injuries that plagued them this season, the Vikings will be in the mix next year. But it could just as easily go south, too, with dramatic tailoffs in performance by key vets and more bad luck in the draft. This is going to be a key offseason for this team in many different ways.
They almost have to bring Cousins back. Can you imagine being a season ticket holder paying all that money and sitting there watching some guy like Dobbs ect. That's a rip off because it provides zero entertainment value to the majority of fans. A shinny new rookie at least provides some entertainment and hope. Others have also said that the teams in our division are stacking up well with young talent. At first I shrugged that off but they are right. The Lions are building a very good all around team. Their defense is a major concern and they let that 49er game get away from them. But they do have some young D building blocks. The Packers it looks like they may have another HOF QB. I knocked the guy primarily because I hope he sucks but he did show tremendous improvement. That will continue. They have some good young WRs who are developing and they can run the ball well which is a huge help for the passing game and defense. The Bears are sitting with the No 1 pick and No 9. They should walk away with 2 impact players. If they don't like any of the QBs they can build more draft capital by trading down and staying in the top 10. That's scary for the division. They are not a doormat team either. Our OL showed in 2 games we can't block them. We get dominated at the point. Basically an embarrassment. The easiest thing is to blame Dobbs. But Cousins also sucked the 1st Bear game. If we stick with the veterans and strike gold in the draft we will be in the mix. There's nothing wrong with that. The NFC don't have a dominate team which is good for every teams chances. The Eagles fell off the map which shows how quickly things can change. For them Super Bowl, 10-1 start and then garbage. The 49ers finally get back to the game but they can be beat. They had a slump this year and looked bad.