Vikings Message Board.Com

I saw this article over on the Star Tribune website https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-v ... 600311305/ and thought it was pretty interesting as it focused not just on the penchant of the offense to give the ball away, but the lack of turnovers created by the defense, which is also running in historically bad territory to this point in the year. The article pointed out that last year's defense was bad, but at least it created turnovers. This year's defense might be marginally better statistically, but it has been far worse at creating turnovers. It makes me wonder why that is and I'm curious to hear what others think might be the reason.

I felt like the defense under Donatell played very soft in the secondary, but also threw in some varied looks that created more turnover opportunities. I also felt like the secondary last year was better at coverage overall. Maybe not better at making plays in coverage per se, but just better at positioning. This year's secondary struggles in terms of being in position to make plays and then actually making them when they are there to be made. I see a lot of short completions that just seem way too easy, but if the defensive secondary is playing soft to prevent getting hit over the top or even in the middle, it isn't working as that doesn't seem to be hard for opposing offenses to complete those kinds of passes either. Flores seems to believe putting pressure on QBs with blitzes will produce success, but in terms of the secondary players actually taking advantage of that pressure and the shorter time to throw that it gives opposing QBs, the Vikings DBs aren't doing that.

In terms of the rest of the defense, they're doing better statistically compared to last year's defense, but the front seven isn't creating any turnovers either. I can't believe that every offense the Vikings have played thus far has been great or consistent at taking care of the football, but the front seven is just not taking advantage of any opportunities to force the ball out.

Some years things just don't go well in certain aspects of the game. Nobody expected the Vikings offense to be so charitable with the ball, but if the defense creates it's own turnovers, that can be mitigated to a degree. Unfortunately for the Vikings, both sides of the ball have been unable to alter the turnover equation.

I wonder if things can continue like this for the whole season. One would think turnovers would even out over time, but if things continue as they have been the Vikings will find themselves very much in contention for the 1st pick in the upcoming draft.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 11:46 am I saw this article over on the Star Tribune website https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-v ... 600311305/ and thought it was pretty interesting as it focused not just on the penchant of the offense to give the ball away, but the lack of turnovers created by the defense, which is also running in historically bad territory to this point in the year. The article pointed out that last year's defense was bad, but at least it created turnovers. This year's defense might be marginally better statistically, but it has been far worse at creating turnovers. It makes me wonder why that is and I'm curious to hear what others think might be the reason.

I felt like the defense under Donatell played very soft in the secondary, but also threw in some varied looks that created more turnover opportunities. I also felt like the secondary last year was better at coverage overall. Maybe not better at making plays in coverage per se, but just better at positioning. This year's secondary struggles in terms of being in position to make plays and then actually making them when they are there to be made. I see a lot of short completions that just seem way too easy, but if the defensive secondary is playing soft to prevent getting hit over the top or even in the middle, it isn't working as that doesn't seem to be hard for opposing offenses to complete those kinds of passes either. Flores seems to believe putting pressure on QBs with blitzes will produce success, but in terms of the secondary players actually taking advantage of that pressure and the shorter time to throw that it gives opposing QBs, the Vikings DBs aren't doing that.

In terms of the rest of the defense, they're doing better statistically compared to last year's defense, but the front seven isn't creating any turnovers either. I can't believe that every offense the Vikings have played thus far has been great or consistent at taking care of the football, but the front seven is just not taking advantage of any opportunities to force the ball out.

Some years things just don't go well in certain aspects of the game. Nobody expected the Vikings offense to be so charitable with the ball, but if the defense creates it's own turnovers, that can be mitigated to a degree. Unfortunately for the Vikings, both sides of the ball have been unable to alter the turnover equation.

I think everyone is confusing how aggressive this defense is for it actually producing results. I've talked about this very thing in another thread.

The 2022 Vikings had nearly 1 INT per game last year and had 11 fumble recoveries I think. This year's team has gotten 1 INT in 5 games. Wanna know why? Because the extra guy that would help getting the pick is one of the guys rushing instead. And what does that extra blitzing get us? A WORSE completion percentage and slightly better YPC stat. A whopping .5 extra sacks a game. A worse fumble recover rate. The rushing game is improved from a YPC standpoint for sure. Having those extra guys on the line will do that. This defense gets passes completed on it 76% of the time but they sure are aggressive!

The 2022 defense was a snooze sometimes, but it was a lot better than people give it credit for. It's a hell of a lot better than the 2023 defense even if they weren't as fun to watch.

I feel like it is less likely to get interceptions playing man than zone. Corners don't turn around to play the ball very often and just hope to knock it out of their hands on the way down. I'm not sure what the percentage is on our man and zone tendencies but usually it seems we are in man.

Cliff wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:46 pm

VikingLord wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 11:46 am I saw this article over on the Star Tribune website https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-v ... 600311305/ and thought it was pretty interesting as it focused not just on the penchant of the offense to give the ball away, but the lack of turnovers created by the defense, which is also running in historically bad territory to this point in the year. The article pointed out that last year's defense was bad, but at least it created turnovers. This year's defense might be marginally better statistically, but it has been far worse at creating turnovers. It makes me wonder why that is and I'm curious to hear what others think might be the reason.

I felt like the defense under Donatell played very soft in the secondary, but also threw in some varied looks that created more turnover opportunities. I also felt like the secondary last year was better at coverage overall. Maybe not better at making plays in coverage per se, but just better at positioning. This year's secondary struggles in terms of being in position to make plays and then actually making them when they are there to be made. I see a lot of short completions that just seem way too easy, but if the defensive secondary is playing soft to prevent getting hit over the top or even in the middle, it isn't working as that doesn't seem to be hard for opposing offenses to complete those kinds of passes either. Flores seems to believe putting pressure on QBs with blitzes will produce success, but in terms of the secondary players actually taking advantage of that pressure and the shorter time to throw that it gives opposing QBs, the Vikings DBs aren't doing that.

In terms of the rest of the defense, they're doing better statistically compared to last year's defense, but the front seven isn't creating any turnovers either. I can't believe that every offense the Vikings have played thus far has been great or consistent at taking care of the football, but the front seven is just not taking advantage of any opportunities to force the ball out.

Some years things just don't go well in certain aspects of the game. Nobody expected the Vikings offense to be so charitable with the ball, but if the defense creates it's own turnovers, that can be mitigated to a degree. Unfortunately for the Vikings, both sides of the ball have been unable to alter the turnover equation.

I think everyone is confusing how aggressive this defense is for it actually producing results. I've talked about this very thing in another thread.

The 2022 Vikings had nearly 1 INT per game last year and had 11 fumble recoveries I think. This year's team has gotten 1 INT in 5 games. Wanna know why? Because the extra guy that would help getting the pick is one of the guys rushing instead. And what does that extra blitzing get us? A WORSE completion percentage and slightly better YPC stat. A whopping .5 extra sacks a game. A worse fumble recover rate. The rushing game is improved from a YPC standpoint for sure. Having those extra guys on the line will do that. This defense gets passes completed on it 76% of the time but they sure are aggressive!

The 2022 defense was a snooze sometimes, but it was a lot better than people give it credit for. It's a hell of a lot better than the 2023 defense even if they weren't as fun to watch.

If two defensive systems and bringing in one of the NFL’s defensive coordinators doesn’t make them better the only thing left to question is talent. Something could be said about lack of continuity in the secondary as well. When there are so many new players and a new system every season in the secondary what could possibly go wrong? (Sarcasm alert)

I’m usually all rah, rah Vikings and look at them through rose colored glasses but when things get to this point I’m a realist. Last year it felt like we had karma on our side and could do no wrong. This year I’m buying into the “competitive rebuilds don’t work” and “Cousins is not the guy” mode. Kirk was throw caution to the wind Kirko Chains we can beat anybody. This year it appears that he just works here. My money is on Kirk getting a second Vikings coach and GM sent packing. If that were to happen don’t shed any tears as they’re contributing to their own demise.

The real problem with the defense is lack of talent/playmakers. Name one guy we have on the roster since drafting Hunter or Smith that are difference makers. Poor drafting under two regimes

To the last two points, yes, it's talent and has been since we picked up Kirk Cousins. In one season the Vikings went from a consistent top 5 defense to bottom of the league under Zimmer.

The last DC played a scheme for the players we had and it was borning which reflected the talent. But it was actually pretty complimentary to the offense. This DC is playing a scheme for players we wish we had. Zimmers defense had the same problem once Rick went against his wishes and got Cousins. It needs more playmakers than the team has the cap to buy.