Chargers at Vikings

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

Pep2Moss
Starter
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:15 am
x 45

Re: Chargers at Vikings

Post by Pep2Moss »

Ignored the interior of the line...they are terrible.

No pass rush

Kwesi totally botched the 2022 draft.

Flores is as stubborn as Donnatel

We all had the team at 2-1 minimum at this point with the tougher schedule ahead. Losing at home to Tampa and LA is just not ok, nor conducive to getting into the playoffs

Coulda, shouda, woulda, team is toast. If I am JJ I want out next year and zero part of a rebuild.
User avatar
Texas Vike
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:52 am
x 405

Re: Chargers at Vikings

Post by Texas Vike »

I find it astounding that Kirk doesn't do what other veteran QBs do at the end of halves or games: just take matters into your own hands. If you're out of TOs and time is ticking, you don't need to hear your coach tell you to spike the ball. Do you think that's what top 10, experienced QBs do?

I think this game showcased the reservations that some of us still have about Kirk: he's so tightly wound up that in crunch time, he panics. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a very good QB, but I'd like a guy who is built different.

I have some complaints for KOC too. I think I read somewhere that we had 3 trips inside the Chargers' 5 yard line and came away with 3 points. That's horrendous. We cannot win up front, so we're forced to throw or run gadget plays in these situations. We need beef and power for our IOL.

We'd be best off losing as many games as possible the rest of this season, but you know that the Vikings won't be able to do that correctly either. We are doomed to mediocrity. This team is the Albert Camus of the NFL: existential dread.
allday1991
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1301
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:31 pm
x 88

Re: Chargers at Vikings

Post by allday1991 »

Texas Vike wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 6:43 am I find it astounding that Kirk doesn't do what other veteran QBs do at the end of halves or games: just take matters into your own hands. If you're out of TOs and time is ticking, you don't need to hear your coach tell you to spike the ball. Do you think that's what top 10, experienced QBs do?

I think this game showcased the reservations that some of us still have about Kirk: he's so tightly wound up that in crunch time, he panics. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a very good QB, but I'd like a guy who is built different.

I have some complaints for KOC too. I think I read somewhere that we had 3 trips inside the Chargers' 5 yard line and came away with 3 points. That's horrendous. We cannot win up front, so we're forced to throw or run gadget plays in these situations. We need beef and power for our IOL.

We'd be best off losing as many games as possible the rest of this season, but you know that the Vikings won't be able to do that correctly either. We are doomed to mediocrity. This team is the Albert Camus of the NFL: existential dread.

Loose and get rid of our gm. Possibly the coach depending how the rest of the year plays out. I have zero faith in handing KAM a high draft pick. He’ll do something stupid like trade it for nothing then draft more safety’s.
“I remember my mistakes more than my success.” - Adrian Peterson
CharVike
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3631
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:28 pm
x 756

Re: Chargers at Vikings

Post by CharVike »

JJBreaksRecords wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 6:14 pm I guess Cousins isnt allowed to take a knee or spike the ball away when the clock is running out, LOL
When a team has no clue what to do when the home crowd is too loud that just shows how under prepared this club is. A bunch of losers from the top all the way down to the bottom. It's just a matter of playing out the remaining games at this point. They can't wait for this to end. Another year of the same bumbling idiots in 2024. Maybe play a few games in Duluth and cast it back to a big screen at the bank. Shouldn't be too loud there and it will provide a source of entertainment for the Duluth locals.
User avatar
VikingLord
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8334
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:12 pm
Location: The Land of the Ice and Snow
x 998

Re: Chargers at Vikings

Post by VikingLord »

cogitator wrote: Sun Sep 24, 2023 7:48 pm There are probably dumber ways to lose, but this is way up there. Just spike it. From the ESPN game writeup -

There was one problem. The crowd at U.S. Bank Stadium was so loud that quarterback Kirk Cousins couldn't hear coach Kevin O'Connell's playcall, both Cousins and O'Connell said afterward. A full 23 seconds ran off the clock as Cousins tried to hear O'Connell, and eventually just decided to call a play on his own. It ended with a tipped pass toward tight end T.J. Hockenson that Chargers linebacker Kenneth Murray Jr. intercepted to seal the game with seven seconds left.


"Just couldn't hear him with the noise," Cousins said. "Just ended up calling a play, and the play I called was the same play he was trying to get to."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/384 ... e-playcall
If this is true, it is unacceptable IMHO. There is no excuse for not hurrying to the line there and spiking the ball regardless of the playcall. You want the offense reset and the play to be executed correctly in addition to giving yourself as much time as possible to run as many plays as you can before the game is over. Every second Kirk spent standing there waiting to hear what he couldn't hear or KOC spent trying to send in a play that couldn't be heard was another second that wasn't going to be available.

Kirk is a veteran QB. He should know this and should have taken matters into his own hands as soon as he realized he couldn't get the play. That he waited as long as he did to then finally call a play is yet another example of him failing in key situations.

Even with that, had the Vikings not continued to turn the ball over and not continued to have terrible luck (i.e. the Evans should-have-been-an-interception-but-turned-into-a-TD-for-the-other-team), they would have won.

This team apparently is snake bit and I don't know how they fix it. TJ fumbles early in scoring position and the tone was set from there, at least for the offense. They appear to have the opposite luck of last season late in games. They are all trying hard and I give them credit for that but if they can't fix the turnovers and failure to execute this going to be a much longer season than it already appears to be.
User avatar
VikingLord
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8334
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:12 pm
Location: The Land of the Ice and Snow
x 998

Re: Chargers at Vikings

Post by VikingLord »

My observations on the Chargers game:

- The Vikings started running like they had to prove something to themselves. Yes, it worked, but it is also important to note that JJ wasn't targeted once in the first quarter. Further, the Vikings attempted no deep passes in the 1st quarter, and still managed to turn the ball over early when in scoring position after completing a short pass. I don't understand KOC's mentality. Maybe the Chargers were inviting runs, but it sure didn't look like Cousins was changing the plays at the LOS based on what he saw the Chargers doing on defense. It seems more like KOC wanted to set a tone and they sure did, to the point where they didn't score and the more fundamental problem of ball security wasn't addressed apparently.

- Cousins looked off the whole game. Constant checkdowns even when he had time to throw, lots of balls that were poorly placed, and he just seemed tentative. The Chargers came into this game with one of the worst secondaries in the league to this point, and Cousins just refused to test that secondary at all until well into the game. No real deep shots were attempted. The longer passes were short to medium routes that were turned into longer passes with YAC by the receiver. Maybe the Charger defense dictated this, but I find it hard to believe the Vikings couldn't even try to go deep once. Very puzzling offensive strategy in this game overall. Maybe it threw Cousins off? Maybe the Chargers threw looks at him he wasn't prepared for? Whatever it was, Cousins didn't get it done yesterday in multiple areas, with the most glaring being his failure to get up and spike the ball at the very end. Even on the drive prior to that, he threw short of the goal line to JJ on 4th down. Wouldn't have mattered if there was a penalty on the play because even if it were completed, JJ was hit immediately and wouldn't have scored anyway. I mean, did Cousins learn nothing from last year? Or there was the play near the Chargers goal line where Cousins had Mattison on a short crosser and wide open for what would have been an easy score. Yes, Bosa got good pressure there and managed to hit Cousins' arm, but why didn't Cousins just step up in the pocket to make that throw? Instead, he stayed rooted in place. I know it's easy for me to say all he had to do was move up, but come on, Bosa had the only pressure on that play and O'Neill had him pushed wide. Cousins opts for the lazy chuck instead of making a minor adjustment and the easier throw that would have resulted. So frustrating.

- Number 43 in the Charger secondary was really bad. I mean, he stood out bad bad. And yet, it took until sometime in the 4th before the Vikings started targeting him with Addison? Very puzzling.

- TJ Hockenson is one of the most maddening players I think I've ever watched. He makes plays, but he seems to balance it out with just some really awful mistakes with untimely drops or fumbles. And while it wasn't his fault, when I watched him make the catch for the 1st down on the final Vikings drive and then get up and jog back to the huddle and stand there smiling and waiting while Cousins apparently tried to figure out what to do, my brain just couldn't process the lack of urgency. The camera just happened to be on him, and I expected to see a look of determination and urgency on his face, but he's just smiling like the Vikings had all the time left in the world. The disconnect between the situation and his expression is going to leave a lasting impression on me. I wonder how many other Vikings offensive players were seemingly OK with that situation and lack of urgency?

- Ed Ingram. How many more games is he going to be on the field?

- Andrew Booth and Lewis Cine. How many more games are neither going to be on the field?

- Why didn't Ivan Pace blitz up the middle on the 4th down the Chargers scored on? Giving Herbert time is like deciding to jump off a cliff. Pace sat in the middle while the line parted like the Red Sea. Pace could have pressured the throw at least. I'm sure Pace was doing what he was told to do but Flores had sent so much pressure at Herbert and to sit back in that situation made no sense at all.

- One last item of note is the lackluster secondary play by the Vikings. Flores sent a ton of pressure all game at Herbert. It rarely got home, but it did force Herbert to get the ball out quickly and get it out he did. As a secondary player, if you know the ball has to come out early you might decide to take a few chances and make some plays on the ball. Not the Vikings secondary players, no. Despite knowing the pressure would force quick throws, no routes were jumped. And the few times the Chargers threw deep, I think they completed every one of the attempts, including the one Evans had right in his hands for a pick. The secondary this year is as toothless as it has been for what seems like forever now. I am going to nickname them Toothless. They make no plays short or long, whether the QB is flustered or not, whether he throws it to them or not. The highlight reel play for the secondary thus far was the pass Hurts threw right at Jackson. Take that away, and they've done almost nothing. They invested high draft picks in players who are apparently so bad Flores won't even put them on the field in a secondary filled with ineffective players. KAM's first draft just really whiffed with the first two picks and that lack of production is really hurting a team that otherwise believes it is capable of a competitive rebuild.

0-3 and staring into the abyss of futility. I truly think the football gods watched Kirk throw short of the sticks on 4th down against the Giants to end the season last year and decided whatever affection they had for the Vikings that led them to gift last year's team the 11 one score wins was over. This year, those same gods will taketh instead of giveth apparently.
VikeFanInEagleLand
Transition Player
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:31 am
x 107

Re: Chargers at Vikings

Post by VikeFanInEagleLand »

Yes, I'm not happy either, BUT...the Vikings are not REALLY an 0-3 team AND they are still the best team in the division. They have not played well but are one play away in each game from being 3-0. KOC and Cousins did not handle the end of the game well, but I'd be 100 times more concerned if we had a coach that called as stupid of a call as Staley did when went for it on 4th down. I predict Vikings win the division.
User avatar
VikingLord
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8334
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:12 pm
Location: The Land of the Ice and Snow
x 998

Re: Chargers at Vikings

Post by VikingLord »

VikeFanInEagleLand wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 12:50 pm Yes, I'm not happy either, BUT...the Vikings are not REALLY an 0-3 team AND they are still the best team in the division. They have not played well but are one play away in each game from being 3-0. KOC and Cousins did not handle the end of the game well, but I'd be 100 times more concerned if we had a coach that called as stupid of a call as Staley did when went for it on 4th down. I predict Vikings win the division.
I agree with you on Staley. That was a super stupid call but KOC's failure to have the team ready for the situation at the end isn't much better. I mean, Staley literally gift-wraps a golden opportunity for KOC's offense and KOC's offense simply wasn't ready for it. And it goes like that in each game you say the Vikings should have won. Those one or two plays away were plays a better team makes. Heck, just cut out the turnovers and even if they don't make those plays they are probably 3-0.

But they're not. They are 0-3 and if they blow it again this coming Sunday they'll be 0-4 having lost to another winless team. At least that loss will be on the road, so they'll have another built-in excuse.

If you're trying to say the 2023 Vikings aren't a bad team, I can see why you would make that claim. They do have a good passing offense. However, the flaws on display, especially when compared to teams like the 49ers and KC who are both coming up soon on the schedule, should illustrate pretty clearly just how far from being a good team they really are.
CharVike
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3631
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:28 pm
x 756

Re: Chargers at Vikings

Post by CharVike »

VikingLord wrote: Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:39 am My observations on the Chargers game:

- The Vikings started running like they had to prove something to themselves. Yes, it worked, but it is also important to note that JJ wasn't targeted once in the first quarter. Further, the Vikings attempted no deep passes in the 1st quarter, and still managed to turn the ball over early when in scoring position after completing a short pass. I don't understand KOC's mentality. Maybe the Chargers were inviting runs, but it sure didn't look like Cousins was changing the plays at the LOS based on what he saw the Chargers doing on defense. It seems more like KOC wanted to set a tone and they sure did, to the point where they didn't score and the more fundamental problem of ball security wasn't addressed apparently.

- Cousins looked off the whole game. Constant checkdowns even when he had time to throw, lots of balls that were poorly placed, and he just seemed tentative. The Chargers came into this game with one of the worst secondaries in the league to this point, and Cousins just refused to test that secondary at all until well into the game. No real deep shots were attempted. The longer passes were short to medium routes that were turned into longer passes with YAC by the receiver. Maybe the Charger defense dictated this, but I find it hard to believe the Vikings couldn't even try to go deep once. Very puzzling offensive strategy in this game overall. Maybe it threw Cousins off? Maybe the Chargers threw looks at him he wasn't prepared for? Whatever it was, Cousins didn't get it done yesterday in multiple areas, with the most glaring being his failure to get up and spike the ball at the very end. Even on the drive prior to that, he threw short of the goal line to JJ on 4th down. Wouldn't have mattered if there was a penalty on the play because even if it were completed, JJ was hit immediately and wouldn't have scored anyway. I mean, did Cousins learn nothing from last year? Or there was the play near the Chargers goal line where Cousins had Mattison on a short crosser and wide open for what would have been an easy score. Yes, Bosa got good pressure there and managed to hit Cousins' arm, but why didn't Cousins just step up in the pocket to make that throw? Instead, he stayed rooted in place. I know it's easy for me to say all he had to do was move up, but come on, Bosa had the only pressure on that play and O'Neill had him pushed wide. Cousins opts for the lazy chuck instead of making a minor adjustment and the easier throw that would have resulted. So frustrating.

- Number 43 in the Charger secondary was really bad. I mean, he stood out bad bad. And yet, it took until sometime in the 4th before the Vikings started targeting him with Addison? Very puzzling.

- TJ Hockenson is one of the most maddening players I think I've ever watched. He makes plays, but he seems to balance it out with just some really awful mistakes with untimely drops or fumbles. And while it wasn't his fault, when I watched him make the catch for the 1st down on the final Vikings drive and then get up and jog back to the huddle and stand there smiling and waiting while Cousins apparently tried to figure out what to do, my brain just couldn't process the lack of urgency. The camera just happened to be on him, and I expected to see a look of determination and urgency on his face, but he's just smiling like the Vikings had all the time left in the world. The disconnect between the situation and his expression is going to leave a lasting impression on me. I wonder how many other Vikings offensive players were seemingly OK with that situation and lack of urgency?

- Ed Ingram. How many more games is he going to be on the field?

- Andrew Booth and Lewis Cine. How many more games are neither going to be on the field?

- Why didn't Ivan Pace blitz up the middle on the 4th down the Chargers scored on? Giving Herbert time is like deciding to jump off a cliff. Pace sat in the middle while the line parted like the Red Sea. Pace could have pressured the throw at least. I'm sure Pace was doing what he was told to do but Flores had sent so much pressure at Herbert and to sit back in that situation made no sense at all.

- One last item of note is the lackluster secondary play by the Vikings. Flores sent a ton of pressure all game at Herbert. It rarely got home, but it did force Herbert to get the ball out quickly and get it out he did. As a secondary player, if you know the ball has to come out early you might decide to take a few chances and make some plays on the ball. Not the Vikings secondary players, no. Despite knowing the pressure would force quick throws, no routes were jumped. And the few times the Chargers threw deep, I think they completed every one of the attempts, including the one Evans had right in his hands for a pick. The secondary this year is as toothless as it has been for what seems like forever now. I am going to nickname them Toothless. They make no plays short or long, whether the QB is flustered or not, whether he throws it to them or not. The highlight reel play for the secondary thus far was the pass Hurts threw right at Jackson. Take that away, and they've done almost nothing. They invested high draft picks in players who are apparently so bad Flores won't even put them on the field in a secondary filled with ineffective players. KAM's first draft just really whiffed with the first two picks and that lack of production is really hurting a team that otherwise believes it is capable of a competitive rebuild.

0-3 and staring into the abyss of futility. I truly think the football gods watched Kirk throw short of the sticks on 4th down against the Giants to end the season last year and decided whatever affection they had for the Vikings that led them to gift last year's team the 11 one score wins was over. This year, those same gods will taketh instead of giveth apparently.
Cousins was off the whole game. No spike and letting the time slip away is inexcusable. Live for another play. TJ is frustrating to watch. When he let that guy rip the ball out of his arms he should have been benched. You can't allow a defender to do that. If they are going after the ball yank and go. Show some fight. Perhaps he's still not ready for prime time since missing camp. The Chargers have a nice team. There basically like us which means they will try and win but they have no chance of making it through the playoffs if they do make it. They have some nice young players but too many gapping holes.
User avatar
VikingLord
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8334
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:12 pm
Location: The Land of the Ice and Snow
x 998

Re: Chargers at Vikings

Post by VikingLord »

Man, it's almost like the offseason on this board as of late. I know they're 0-3 but I'm kind of surprised how quiet it has been.

I wanted to add another observation on Cousins that really stands out to me. Not to beat a dead horse, but he was asked after the game if he could have just gone up and spiked the ball and if he could, why he didn't. You can watch the interview on vikings.com.

Cousins said something to the effect that he has the freedom to do whatever he wants to do, but apparently KOC wanted to go fast and get the next snap off before the Chargers could sub in different players or get reset. Problem was, Cousins couldn't hear the play KOC wanted him to run due to crowd noise or a garbled headset. So apparently Cousins ran up to the huddle and sat there while precious time bled off the clock until he finally decided to run the same play that KOC apparently was trying to call.

I was critical of Hockenson for his almost sheepish grin and apparent lack of urgency in that situation, but Hockenson doesn't call plays or is the $35 million dollar veteran QB who is expected to take the reins of the offense on the field. KOC might blame himself for that situation, and he certainly shares some responsibility for it, but I think the bulk of the blame there has to fall on Cousins. So what if his head coach wants him to go right into another play if he can't hear the play? I mean, what kind of lame excuse is that?

Cousins went further in his answer saying he called the QB sneak that didn't get in against the Bills late in that game last year, and that while he has the power to change plays and do what he wants, he tries not to do that. That is all fine and dandy, and I get why he feels that way, but this wasn't a situation where Cousins was going to change the play because even by his own admission he couldn't hear what the play was!

I just don't get how and why KOC and KAM kept Cousins around after how the playoff game ended last year against the Giants. He's not a leader. He's not someone who is going to read a situation and take control even if it means going off script and even if the situation demands he go off script. He's going to go by the numbers and what the book says even if it means the team hits the iceberg and goes down by the head. There was the earlier throw on 4th-and-goal to JJ that also was short of the endzone and wouldn't have scored even if it were completed.

Cousins isn't dumb but he isn't a leader and he isn't someone who others will follow into danger or exert themselves for. He's not a bad or toxic teammate or someone who will intentionally tank the team's chances. He's nice and polite and all that. But he's not going to do anything controversial or, I would argue, *necessary*, to get his team a win. He's going to take the safe choice even if the end result of the safe choice is failure. I guess he thinks that will keep him safe from criticism. Well, guess what? When you are a starting QB in the NFL making north of $35 million per year, you are going to get criticized whether you play it safe or not. At least the guys who take chances sometimes come out on the winning side when the odds are stacked against them. The guys who play it safe go home and if they are remembered for anything it is the obscene amounts of money they made while basically treading water and wasting the time the teams they played for might have spent looking for a QB who really gave them a chance.

This is a play-it-safe team. Runs up the middle down after down. DBs who know the defensive play call is heavy blitz who refuse to jump a route or try to make a play on the ball, but then are more than happy to get suckered into a lateral throw that then goes easily over their heads. The Chargers head coach exemplifies the other extreme of taking reckless chances, and I am not advocating Cousins or the Vikings go to the other extreme and be reckless, but realizing the time and situation calls for a quick 1st down spike to get the offense set and give the team at least a few good cracks at the endzone is not reckless. It is simply being aware and playing for the best odds.

Very frustrating to watch this team right now. I had high hopes KOC would get the team into a better overall place. All I see are a bunch of well paid coaches and athletes who are too afraid to look bad in hindsight. Meanwhile, they are winless and facing a daunting schedule.
makila
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 501
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:43 pm
x 173

Re: Chargers at Vikings

Post by makila »

Yeah VL, I saw that interview clip. Cousins made similar statement two years ago with Zimmer and calling a TO. Forget the game. Basically then he said it wasn't his decision or something along the lines.

My take away, regardless if the coach empowered him or not, he doesn't want to have to make that decision in the heat of the moment. Kinda you know...the opposite of your franchise leading qb ideally. It's baffling. Any decade long starting qb needs to be the leader on the field. To your point, I think Kirk is a good human being, nice person, and very very good thrower of a football. He locks up at critical times, it's who he is. Not a true leader of men though. I like, and respect, Kirk so I am not bashing the person at all.

I don't have a bunch to say about the team currently. I am pretty sour on KAM, and I don't want to derail threads. Trying to be patient. His first draft appears to be an absolute complete bust top to bottom with the exception of Evans. Free agent moves have been reactionary. Hasn't locked up our one game changing player we have.

KOC I am unsure about. I feel like he might need to shift play calling elsewhere. However I don't know that Phillips is the best either as we haven't seen it. We are experiencing KOCs play calling growing pains at the same time as he is learning to be a HC. Generally the ones who call their own plays did it as oc before hc. So they weren't learning both.

Oh yeah...team specific now. Stop fumbling the #### ball. I don't care who you are, negative TO differential is almost always recipe to lose. Fluke or not.

Edit: I also don't understand the direction with Kirk and qb. There are smarter people in the room than myself, so I have accepted I don't get the dynamics at work.

I guess what I am saying is if you are truly "in", in the NFL, you have to shift to that gear. We did neither. Which I presume is due to Wilfs guidelines.
Image
User avatar
VikingLord
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8334
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:12 pm
Location: The Land of the Ice and Snow
x 998

Re: Chargers at Vikings

Post by VikingLord »

makila wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 6:53 pm Edit: I also don't understand the direction with Kirk and qb. There are smarter people in the room than myself, so I have accepted I don't get the dynamics at work.

I guess what I am saying is if you are truly "in", in the NFL, you have to shift to that gear. We did neither. Which I presume is due to Wilfs guidelines.
Well, if the Vikes want to make a move at QB in the draft, this upcoming draft is looking extremely promising at QB.

There is, of course, Caleb Williams of USC. He's the next Mahomes if there ever is another Mahomes. He is evasive, can throw accurately when off balance or even in the air using pretty much any arm angle required, and innovates. Most importantly, he does so without making a lot of obvious mistakes. He can run, but prefers to create time and space to pass. Assuming he enters the draft, he's gone with the first pick, so if the Vikings want him, they need to have the first pick. Hard to say if they're bad enough to warrant that based on their finish this year, but at 0-3 they're well on their way.

But it doesn't stop at Williams at QB prospects.

There is Drake Maye out of North Carolina, a 6'4", 220 pound QB who might be less dynamic overall than Williams, but who displays the pocket awareness, arm strength, timing and accuracy that makes him a strong candidate to grow into a franchise QB in the pros.

Then there is Shedeur Sanders out of Colorado. Not the physical prospect that Williams and Mayes are, but he has great leadership qualities and processes the field very well. He gets accolades like "most pro ready" along the lines of what we heard about JJ at WR coming out. This is another guy that could easily develop into a franchise QB in the right environment.

Other guys I really like in terms of potential that might have slightly more question marks (some of which could be answered yet this season) are Quinn Ewers of Texas, Bo Nix of Oregon and Will Howard of Kansas State. All are guys that I think could become franchise QBs out of this upcoming draft. Howard isn't getting as much national recognition yet, but I suspect by the time the Combine comes around he's going to be talked about as a first round QB and maybe in the conversation for the upper part of the first round.

Bottom line is, KAM should be looking at up to six prospects at QB that could transform the franchise for the duration of KAM's career as the GM. Yes, things could change between now and then. One or more of these prospects could end up injured or tail off or someone else in the class could catch fire and rise. But the point is, if the Vikings end up drafting in the top half of the 1st round they will very likely have a shot at a QB with real franchise potential.

I don't know how JJ will perceive the situation and whether that might impact his decision on whether to sign an extension with the Vikings. With the right guy at QB, JJ could thrive even more. But KAM has to be willing and able to make a move for the guy he wants, and to do that KOC and he are going to have to let go of the notion of this competitive rebuild and maybe think even about shipping a guy like Hunter or even Cousins this year to put themselves into position to make it happen. I do wonder if another few losses would open the door to something like that mid-season. I mean, if the team isn't winning with Cousins and Hunter, maybe the best thing either or both can do for the team's future is be traded for draft capital that can be used for that purpose in the upcoming draft.

This might honestly be a year where a step back is necessary to put the team into position to take 2+ steps forward.
makila
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 501
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:43 pm
x 173

Re: Chargers at Vikings

Post by makila »

VikingLord wrote: Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:42 pm qb post
I live in the heart of big 12 country. Saw Caleb in person a few times during his freshman year....and the talent is WOW. What you mentioned specifically, it's what he can do off script, and he isn't a guy who tries to break off script. He understands playing within the system...however when it falls apart, holy cow he can kill a team multiple ways. His arm angles are probably the most ridiculous I've seen at a college level in person. Well actually... other than Mahomes who I got to watch too. He is really smart and humble given how fast he was thrusted into the next great #1 qb discussion. His dad on the other hand.....the comments he made about Arizona recently are just the tip of the iceberg with Carl. Anyways, completely agree, gone with the #1 pick.

Maye has people drooling as well, I just haven't seen as much with my own eyes so its more what I've read/watched from others breaking down his play. His arm seems incredibly talented, with a pro style frame.

I don't know much about Nix, other than slightly above average play at Auburn. However he really seems to have elevated his game at Oregon. Ewers has always had the potential, I need to see him prove it more. He's having a great start to the season, and his physical skills scream NFL. Little more concerned about between the ears with him than others. Howard I agree with you, will get more publicity and eyes on him as the season rolls on.

Shedeur I'll be the first to admit at times has looked freaking amazing. Just want to see more play against top level college talent. Sadly the USC game isn't going to show me much, as I have zero faith in anything Alex Grinch is coordinating.

Two other names who I think could float around in the 1st round is Penix from WA, formerly of IU. And Rattler from South Carolina, formerly of OU. When he came out of HS he was viewed as a pro qb prospect. Things didn't go as planned, and I think a lot of it is in his head. But man...he can make throws not everyone can. Penix is a bit older and has had slower development.

I do think this is the year they need to identify who they like, and make the move to get there. If they have a mid round 1st, they can get up into the top 10. I realize the #1 isn't that obtainable unless you already have a top 3-5 pick to pair with other assets. I am a big believer in having conviction with what you do, in all of life. Basically, the guys who make the football decisions are there for a reason. They are the experts that ownership has hired. Identify who you want and make sure you get them. Have a purpose. Know who you are, etc. Now if they aren't good at being the experts, find someone who is. Haha. Also think that teams should throw a dart at the QB board every couple years. Doesn't always have to be a 1st, or 2nd, but hell, every once in a while a mid round one works out in the nfl. Don't fall into the desperation pick. Hi Rick.

If they aren't communicating with JJ about this path, well, then that's just really poor management imho. Not saying JJ should dictate anything, he should be informed of their intent imho. As you said, it could be a benefit to him even. It seems reasonable that he wouldn't want to be blindsided either way. Might be moot if we don't lock him up.

Oh yeah, fix the damn lines.
Image
CharVike
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3631
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:28 pm
x 756

Re: Chargers at Vikings

Post by CharVike »

Do people actual think Mahomes would guide our team to the Super Bowl? The Chiefs are a modern dynasty. 2 years ago 9 draft picks that contributed. Mahomes mentioned them. How many years or decades would it take for us to do that? There OL isn't a POS. There DL isn't a POS. But it's only Mahomes. Caleb Whatever is a less talented Jamesis Winston. We can have that turnover stiff right now. Baker Mayfield I read how great he was coming out. He blows. Now it's the guy the Panthers picked who is a superstar. The guy weighs maybe 180. You can't hold up at that weight. Now we have Joe Webb I mean J Hall as the next master. Only Sloter was a better preseason passer than that stiff. Our problems go way beyond QB. It's start at the GM. An entire 2022 draft with nothing. No team wins that way. Why are they still on the roster? I just saw 40 million+ Dak throw an end zone INT for the loss. Wasn't close to any of his players. Some say he's the best in the game. If Cousins did that they will all say typical bum like he is. Dak had plenty of time no defender was around him. Not even close to him. This TJ fumbles right off the bat. That ball that bounced around for the interception at the end hit him in the hands. Shouldn't a guy catch that ball? Was it impossible? If I was Cousins I would say this TJ sucks he cost us the game. Week before JJ gave the game away. But Cousins won't say that which is a lack of leadership ability. Russell Wilson will throw any teammate under the bus. He's a true winner. Not some stupid wild card but the whole deal.
Last edited by CharVike on Wed Sep 27, 2023 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
chicagopurple
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1498
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:45 am
x 88

Re: Chargers at Vikings

Post by chicagopurple »

I have been a dedicated, oft frustrated Vikings fan since the early 70's. I dont think I have ever been more fed up with this team (ownership/management) as I am today. This epic train wreck of a team is pretty hopeless. The glaring weaknesses are obvious, chronic and seemingly intentionally ignored by management. I find little motivation to watch them anymore. I have found myself looking forward to watching promising teams like the 49ers in the last 2 years rather then my own team. I cannot believe that ownership is as stupid as their actions would suggest. I am beginning to think they really just dont care. They know that their shiny new stadium and PC marketing ploys are sufficient to hoodwink the fans and create the income stream they wish. Its pretty disgusting. Most of the veteran fans who post here would have fixed the Vikings chronic needs present for the last 10 yrs. The Wilfs are either hideously inept or they dont have the right goal.