Two plays cost us the game

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VikingLord
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Re: Two plays cost us the game

Post by VikingLord »

CharVike wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2023 2:47 pm We've been drinking the harsh medicine for decades and we are still sick. I don't even know what a franchise QB is. Is Fields a franchise. Winston? Mayfield? Foles/Wentz won a Superbowl which is the only true winner. How did Foles win? Luck? Franchise QB? You need a solid team first. Drafting stiffs like Ingram who will sit here for four years is not the way to build.
I'll put it as succinctly as I can - harsh medicine means to stop going down a road that is clearly a dead end even if you've spent a good deal of time and effort going down the road. If the road leads nowhere, better to stop, turn around, and at least try something else.

Along those lines, I don't know if a particular prospect is going to turn into a franchise QB any more than anyone else, but I can see when one is NOT that and not going to become one. Alas, the dead end sign on that particular road. Along that same line of reasoning, it is equally clear when an offensive line contains fatal flaws due to the presence or lack of a certain level of talent needed to implement a scheme or counter what the opposition brings to the table.

I'm not going to go down the road of high picks who didn't win a Superbowl or low picks who did. In the end, it's a team game and while individuals certainly can make a difference to the overall outcome, no single player can win or lose a Superbowl. Teams that make the Superbowl are strong overall, and they are strong because they've been both good and lucky. But it is very unusual for any team to make it to, much less win, a Superbowl without at least competent QB play. Exceptional play at the position makes it even more likely, though, and that is worth taking a big swing at in a draft if the opportunity presents itself. But even if a GM finds one that can't compensate for enough poor or unlucky decisions made elsewhere.

As for Ingram, I didn't think he was a bad pick coming out. But that relates somewhat back to the luck factor as there are plenty of examples of teams that drafted players with a lot of physical potential who then either didn't put in the necessary work or have the necessary commitment to maximize that talent as pros. It's a tale as old as time. The draft is a kind of lottery and just because a guy flames out as a pro doesn't mean he was necessarily a reach or a bad choice. Ingram went about where I expected him to go the year he came out. He's under-performed his potential and I suspect he will have a short career as a pro.
CharVike
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Re: Two plays cost us the game

Post by CharVike »

VikingLord wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2023 3:58 pm
CharVike wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2023 2:47 pm We've been drinking the harsh medicine for decades and we are still sick. I don't even know what a franchise QB is. Is Fields a franchise. Winston? Mayfield? Foles/Wentz won a Superbowl which is the only true winner. How did Foles win? Luck? Franchise QB? You need a solid team first. Drafting stiffs like Ingram who will sit here for four years is not the way to build.
I'll put it as succinctly as I can - harsh medicine means to stop going down a road that is clearly a dead end even if you've spent a good deal of time and effort going down the road. If the road leads nowhere, better to stop, turn around, and at least try something else.

Along those lines, I don't know if a particular prospect is going to turn into a franchise QB any more than anyone else, but I can see when one is NOT that and not going to become one. Alas, the dead end sign on that particular road. Along that same line of reasoning, it is equally clear when an offensive line contains fatal flaws due to the presence or lack of a certain level of talent needed to implement a scheme or counter what the opposition brings to the table.

I'm not going to go down the road of high picks who didn't win a Superbowl or low picks who did. In the end, it's a team game and while individuals certainly can make a difference to the overall outcome, no single player can win or lose a Superbowl. Teams that make the Superbowl are strong overall, and they are strong because they've been both good and lucky. But it is very unusual for any team to make it to, much less win, a Superbowl without at least competent QB play. Exceptional play at the position makes it even more likely, though, and that is worth taking a big swing at in a draft if the opportunity presents itself. But even if a GM finds one that can't compensate for enough poor or unlucky decisions made elsewhere.

As for Ingram, I didn't think he was a bad pick coming out. But that relates somewhat back to the luck factor as there are plenty of examples of teams that drafted players with a lot of physical potential who then either didn't put in the necessary work or have the necessary commitment to maximize that talent as pros. It's a tale as old as time. The draft is a kind of lottery and just because a guy flames out as a pro doesn't mean he was necessarily a reach or a bad choice. Ingram went about where I expected him to go the year he came out. He's under-performed his potential and I suspect he will have a short career as a pro.
I thought Ingram was a solid pick also. Even Bradbury I thought was solid. Yes there is some luck with the draft. The NFC is wide open with the Eagles and 49ers the top two. We have some solid skill position players. We can't run the ball at all. That comes down to a bad OL. We did nothing to improve it. The opportunity was there this year. Maybe we tried but teams weren't willing.
JJBreaksRecords
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Re: Two plays cost us the game

Post by JJBreaksRecords »

CharVike wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2023 4:38 pm
VikingLord wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2023 3:58 pm

I'll put it as succinctly as I can - harsh medicine means to stop going down a road that is clearly a dead end even if you've spent a good deal of time and effort going down the road. If the road leads nowhere, better to stop, turn around, and at least try something else.

Along those lines, I don't know if a particular prospect is going to turn into a franchise QB any more than anyone else, but I can see when one is NOT that and not going to become one. Alas, the dead end sign on that particular road. Along that same line of reasoning, it is equally clear when an offensive line contains fatal flaws due to the presence or lack of a certain level of talent needed to implement a scheme or counter what the opposition brings to the table.

I'm not going to go down the road of high picks who didn't win a Superbowl or low picks who did. In the end, it's a team game and while individuals certainly can make a difference to the overall outcome, no single player can win or lose a Superbowl. Teams that make the Superbowl are strong overall, and they are strong because they've been both good and lucky. But it is very unusual for any team to make it to, much less win, a Superbowl without at least competent QB play. Exceptional play at the position makes it even more likely, though, and that is worth taking a big swing at in a draft if the opportunity presents itself. But even if a GM finds one that can't compensate for enough poor or unlucky decisions made elsewhere.

As for Ingram, I didn't think he was a bad pick coming out. But that relates somewhat back to the luck factor as there are plenty of examples of teams that drafted players with a lot of physical potential who then either didn't put in the necessary work or have the necessary commitment to maximize that talent as pros. It's a tale as old as time. The draft is a kind of lottery and just because a guy flames out as a pro doesn't mean he was necessarily a reach or a bad choice. Ingram went about where I expected him to go the year he came out. He's under-performed his potential and I suspect he will have a short career as a pro.
I thought Ingram was a solid pick also. Even Bradbury I thought was solid. Yes there is some luck with the draft. The NFC is wide open with the Eagles and 49ers the top two. We have some solid skill position players. We can't run the ball at all. That comes down to a bad OL. We did nothing to improve it. The opportunity was there this year. Maybe we tried but teams weren't willing.
If the draft is about luck, KAM has none.
CharVike
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Re: Two plays cost us the game

Post by CharVike »

JJBreaksRecords wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2023 4:56 pm
CharVike wrote: Fri Sep 15, 2023 4:38 pm
I thought Ingram was a solid pick also. Even Bradbury I thought was solid. Yes there is some luck with the draft. The NFC is wide open with the Eagles and 49ers the top two. We have some solid skill position players. We can't run the ball at all. That comes down to a bad OL. We did nothing to improve it. The opportunity was there this year. Maybe we tried but teams weren't willing.
If the draft is about luck, KAM has none.
Yes he does it's called unlucky.