Bucs at Vikings Pre-Game

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makila
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Re: Bucs at Vikings Pre-Game

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Cliff wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2023 3:53 pm Last year we stole games we should have lost, this year we hand away games we should have won. Those turnovers were definitely the difference.
Yeah..just too sloppy. Turnovers killer, any time you give up the ball three times, it's hard to win. Don't care what teams are playing. Penalties were bad, you never want them, let alone to give them a new set of downs when you've forced a FG attempt, then give up a TD.

Sloppy play.

Offensive line did not play good either. They need to get iol help.
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Re: Bucs at Vikings Pre-Game

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CharVike wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2023 4:22 pm
JJBreaksRecords wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2023 3:43 pm I told everyone last year was a fraud, and todays shows I was once again right. Everyone but JJ sucked, and the TEs.
Maybe today was a fraud also unless you feel we won't win a game this year.
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Re: Bucs at Vikings Pre-Game

Post by Pep2Moss »

The fact that they kept the interior of this line intact this offseason makes me question their cognative ability

Like Kirk, still holds the ball too long and should not have tried that pass to KJ, even though KJ was weak on the play

Letting Tampa take JJ out the entire second half was nonsense.

Going to be a long season
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Re: Bucs at Vikings Pre-Game

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

How do you roll up almost 300 yards of offense in the first half and only come away with 10 points?

Turnovers. Specifically red zone turnovers.

Than the defense. Great for 28 minutes, then gives up a drive at the end of the first half and then a 9 freaking minute drive to open the second half. Tampa had basically no big plays, but kept getting 4 yards, 5 yards, 3 yards and moving the sticks. No pressure on Mayfield after halftime, mainly because they just stopped trying to go downfield. Ball was out of his hand in less than 2 seconds.

Just a hard game to sit through. First time I’ve seen them lose in person since 2013. Should’ve been about 31-10 Vikes. Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Doesn’t solve anything.
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Re: Bucs at Vikings Pre-Game

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Right Kapp, that shoulda/Coulda been a win. A good thing we saw was the new D, can work, at time. It was hard for them to sack Mayfield, but overall the D wasnt too bad. KOC has GOT to find a replacement for Ed Ingram, ASAP. I would like one for Ezra at some point this year, but Ed's mistakes are too costly.
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Re: Bucs at Vikings Pre-Game

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J. Kapp 11 wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:26 pm How do you roll up almost 300 yards of offense in the first half and only come away with 10 points?

Turnovers. Specifically red zone turnovers.
This is the essential summary of the game today. Sorry you didn't get to see a better game, Kapp. It was a frustrating one to watch, even on the TV. Felt like the opposite of last year, when so many things went our way. Now we have to play Philly on Thursday NF in Philly, AGAIN? Sigh.
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Re: Bucs at Vikings Pre-Game

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Texas Vike wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2023 9:29 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:26 pm How do you roll up almost 300 yards of offense in the first half and only come away with 10 points?

Turnovers. Specifically red zone turnovers.
This is the essential summary of the game today. Sorry you didn't get to see a better game, Kapp. It was a frustrating one to watch, even on the TV. Felt like the opposite of last year, when so many things went our way. Now we have to play Philly on Thursday NF in Philly, AGAIN? Sigh.
Should turn out great. Really really hoping last year wasn’t a fluke, cause if it was it just delays the team. However I hope by mid season it’s clear as day if this team was real or not last year. Last thing I want is some merky victories that lead management to thinking they’re heading down the right path. If you’re going to suck, suck. Last thing I want to do is increase KAM and O’connells time here cause of lucky seasons. What do you do if Vikings go 8-9 this year? Continue this “competitive” rebuild? this was supposed to be a pick your poison offence and besides jj and ja everyone looked average. KJ getting more throws than any other 3rd in the league and Hock looking nothing like a top 5 TE, passes to HAM etc. This team is beyond frustrating.
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Re: Bucs at Vikings Pre-Game

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Hockensen showed what he is, not a yac guy. 8 rec, 34 yds. 14 came on one reception. We need him running deeper routes since he isn't breaking short ones.
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Re: Bucs at Vikings Pre-Game

Post by VikingLord »

Texas Vike wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2023 9:29 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2023 8:26 pm How do you roll up almost 300 yards of offense in the first half and only come away with 10 points?

Turnovers. Specifically red zone turnovers.
This is the essential summary of the game today. Sorry you didn't get to see a better game, Kapp. It was a frustrating one to watch, even on the TV. Felt like the opposite of last year, when so many things went our way. Now we have to play Philly on Thursday NF in Philly, AGAIN? Sigh.
Turnovers were the story of the first half for the offense, at least, and the lack of scoring to match the possession and stats.

However, I can't blame turnovers for the second half performances on both sides of the ball, both of which were inexplicable to me. Granted, the Bucs might have changed some things they were doing (although I honestly couldn't see what that was), but I thought defensively Florio got extremely passive, giving Mayfield lots of time while the run defense once again just couldn't limit those early down runs to a team that struggled to run last year and had a patchwork offensive line this year. It really seems the lack of a solid anchor tackle in the middle of the defensive line is going to be a problem again this year as the Vikings just don't hold up against power run games in the middle (even against teams that really aren't power run teams). Too many 3rd-and-manageable downs for Mayfield, and the Bucs just ate up the clock in the 2nd half as a result.

Offensively, I thought Kirk was beaten to a pulp yet again for most of the game. I remember on one play in particular where he faked a handoff to the left, turned around to his right, and there was not one, but TWO friggin' free runners coming at him, one of which buried him of course. I think he got the ball off by some miracle but the point is I still fail to understand the either the play design or execution, or both. And then there were plenty of other blaring warning signs for the offense too beyond the turnovers. Where is the run game? Mattison got some TOUGH yards yesterday and I give him credit on those runs but overall the run game did very little. Further, what is up with all the negative yardage plays on 1st down? Especially in the 2nd half. That just can't happen with the regularity it was happening yesterday. Turnovers notwithstanding, it is going to be a long season if the offense keeps going backwards on early downs.

I thought the Bucs matched up well with the Vikings and I thought the game would be a close, tough battle, so I am not surprised the Vikings lost, but that Buc offense is going to be among the worst in the NFL by the end of this season and Florio's defense made them look much better than they are. Between the offensive futility in the 2nd half and the defense reverting back to form from last year (give up a score to end the half and then sit back and play passive while a pedestrian, punchless offense plays keep away), this is an inauspicious start to the 2023 season for the Vikings.

Now the Eagles in Philly are up next. Who else things Hurts is about to have career game running it?
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Re: Bucs at Vikings Pre-Game

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VikingLord wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:51 am
Turnovers were the story of the first half for the offense, at least, and the lack of scoring to match the possession and stats.

However, I can't blame turnovers for the second half performances on both sides of the ball, both of which were inexplicable to me. Granted, the Bucs might have changed some things they were doing (although I honestly couldn't see what that was), but I thought defensively Florio got extremely passive, giving Mayfield lots of time while the run defense once again just couldn't limit those early down runs to a team that struggled to run last year and had a patchwork offensive line this year. It really seems the lack of a solid anchor tackle in the middle of the defensive line is going to be a problem again this year as the Vikings just don't hold up against power run games in the middle (even against teams that really aren't power run teams). Too many 3rd-and-manageable downs for Mayfield, and the Bucs just ate up the clock in the 2nd half as a result.
TB made major adjustments at half: 1) they committed to the run more and 2) Baker made quicker throws and ran the ball effectively when forced to. Flores was aggressive with blitzes throughout, but failed to adapt to TB's revised game plan.

Also, Harrison Phillips played great in the middle, but we are definitely susceptible vs. the run again this year. We are undersized at LB.
VikingLord wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:51 am Offensively, I thought Kirk was beaten to a pulp yet again for most of the game. I remember on one play in particular where he faked a handoff to the left, turned around to his right, and there was not one, but TWO friggin' free runners coming at him, one of which buried him of course. I think he got the ball off by some miracle but the point is I still fail to understand the either the play design or execution, or both. And then there were plenty of other blaring warning signs for the offense too beyond the turnovers. Where is the run game? Mattison got some TOUGH yards yesterday and I give him credit on those runs but overall the run game did very little. Further, what is up with all the negative yardage plays on 1st down? Especially in the 2nd half. That just can't happen with the regularity it was happening yesterday. Turnovers notwithstanding, it is going to be a long season if the offense keeps going backwards on early downs.
Our IOL still sucks and it's extremely frustrating that they did NOTHING to address this major flaw this offseason. How they trust Ingram is one of the universe's great enigmas. The dude managed to sack his own QB several times last season by stepping on his foot. Now he causes a fumble by swatting the ball out of his QB's hands? All the while he's getting beat on every other play within .5 seconds? It's mindblowing that he is starting. Kirk is still not very adept at pocket awareness either. He looked rattled yesterday. That throw to KJ at the goal line was ill advised. On other throws he was high and/or had too much juice on it. Not his best outing.
VikingLord wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:51 am I thought the Bucs matched up well with the Vikings and I thought the game would be a close, tough battle, so I am not surprised the Vikings lost, but that Buc offense is going to be among the worst in the NFL by the end of this season and Florio's defense made them look much better than they are. Between the offensive futility in the 2nd half and the defense reverting back to form from last year (give up a score to end the half and then sit back and play passive while a pedestrian, punchless offense plays keep away), this is an inauspicious start to the 2023 season for the Vikings.

Now the Eagles in Philly are up next. Who else things Hurts is about to have career game running it?
I'm concerned about this prime time game vs. a DL that can wreak havoc. We match up very poorly.
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Re: Bucs at Vikings Pre-Game

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Texas Vike wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:04 am TB made major adjustments at half: 1) they committed to the run more and 2) Baker made quicker throws and ran the ball effectively when forced to. Flores was aggressive with blitzes throughout, but failed to adapt to TB's revised game plan.
Yeah, the Bucs made those adjustments but I thought Flores played it much more passively and the defense overall kind of reverted to the form of last year starting with the first Buc TD at the end of the first half. I recall several times where the Bucs were in an obvious passing down in the 2nd half and Flores just sent three pass rushers, including on the 2nd Buc TD where, despite the Vikings sending only 3 rushers, the guy who caught the TD was still wide open with no Viking anywhere near him. On the final Buc drive where they needed 9 yards, the Vikings DBs played soft, passive coverage. No hard breaks on the route where the guy made the catch.

There was another play where Mayfield rolled out to Hunter's side and ran for a 1st I think. On that play Hunter lost edge contain, which is something I've seen him do repeatedly over his career where he's locked into pass rush mode before the ball is even snapped. I think the Bucs saw that on film and used it against him on that play. It's just disappointing to see Hunter continue to do that and be victimized doing that, and I'm sure the Eagles and Hurts will be looking to exploit it if he starts doing it against them on Thursday night.
Texas Vike wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:04 am Also, Harrison Phillips played great in the middle, but we are definitely susceptible vs. the run again this year. We are undersized at LB.
It's hard for me to fault any individual player on the defensive line, just as it's hard for me to fault Mattison for the lack of production in the run game. The individual player(s) usually exert max effort and the same is true for Phillips on the defensive line. It's just the Vikings defense seems built for small ball. The LBs are fast but smallish. The defensive ends/outside LBs are explosive but not particularly stout. The team desperately needed an inside presence that can anchor the interior of the line and eat up blockers. Tomlinson wasn't the best at that but he was better than anyone they have now.

What I don't understand is why KAM didn't attempt to replace that presence in the middle of the DL. He had opportunities to do that in the draft two years running and passed both times. He could have done it in FA. And yet here we are with not only the same issue as last year, but the issue is worse now. I kept saying the Vikings defense couldn't possibly be worse than last year, but after watching the Buc offense pound them up the middle in the 2nd half yesterday, I may have to take that back. Most teams can field a running game equal to what the Bucs brought yesterday.
Texas Vike wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:04 am Our IOL still sucks and it's extremely frustrating that they did NOTHING to address this major flaw this offseason. How they trust Ingram is one of the universe's great enigmas. The dude managed to sack his own QB several times last season by stepping on his foot. Now he causes a fumble by swatting the ball out of his QB's hands? All the while he's getting beat on every other play within .5 seconds? It's mindblowing that he is starting. Kirk is still not very adept at pocket awareness either. He looked rattled yesterday. That throw to KJ at the goal line was ill advised. On other throws he was high and/or had too much juice on it. Not his best outing.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I just spit out my coffee laughing...

I think a lot of Cousins struggles come from PTSD. Seriously. He's getting hit over and over and turning to see multiple defenders with free runs at him. After a while, that has to become a factor.

Ingram's most infamous play yesterday was on the goal line run play where Vita Vea stopped Mattison for like a 3 -4 yard loss when he hit him in the backfield. On that play Ingram is pulling to lead into the area where the run is supposed to go. Unfortunately for the Vikings, Ingram vacated the exact area where Vea was and Vea was unimpeded to the runner. On the play, Ingram eventually did blow up some poor Buc defender with an pretty impressive block. Unfortunately, Mattison was already down. I can't necessarily blame Ingram on that play. It seems clear someone was supposed to pick up Vea. Unfortunately, nobody did, and the image I'll always have is Ingram almost running away from Vea.
Texas Vike wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 11:04 am I'm concerned about this prime time game vs. a DL that can wreak havoc. We match up very poorly.
I think Hurts is going to have a field day running on the Vikings defense. The Eagles actually have an offensive line and can run effectively with their running backs. You add Hurts to the mix with the relatively undisciplined front seven of the Vikings and Hurts might set a new rushing record for QBs by the time all is said and done. This could be a game where the Eagles need to pass very little. I just don't see them in many 3rd down situations where they'll need to throw it, and if they are, I suspect we'll see a lot more victimization of Byron Murphy and his soft coverage.

The Vikings should be able to move the ball on offense against the Eagles, but they're going to have to actually score this time and stop shooting themselves in the foot with penalties and turnovers if they want to have any chance.

I did like it that many of the Vikings star offensive players seemed upset at how things went against the Bucs. JJ was visibly pissed, as was Cousins. Hopefully they come up with a fire under them because if the Vikings win against the Eagles it won't be because of their defense.
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Re: Bucs at Vikings Pre-Game

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That was a tough loss. Bad decision by Cousins on that interception. Looked like the throw was late. That play seemed to turn the momentum. Our IOL was bad again. Ingram should be benched but that won't happen because of the draft slot and nothing behind him. That was a nice route by Addison on the TD. He broke free easily and has soft hands. He's a smooth player. I don't understand why JJ didn't get much the 2nd half. TJ made some plays when he ran a route. That screen was over before it began. I guess Ezra whiffed on his block. Oliver got downfield for a nice one. I don't understand a wide open gap for Winfield to run through for an easy sack/strip. How is there a hole in Ingram's spot at the LOS. That was too easy for them. We couldn't get a turnover which hurt. We couldn't run the ball after some early success. Basically nothing. That never helps and shows the dominance at the point. Cousins took many hits again. He better get the vest on because it won't be an easy go on Thursday. At least we played the Eagles last year which will help the familiarity aspect but the execution in the pits will tell the story.
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Re: Bucs at Vikings Pre-Game

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CharVike wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:16 pm That was a tough loss. Bad decision by Cousins on that interception. Looked like the throw was late. That play seemed to turn the momentum. Our IOL was bad again. Ingram should be benched but that won't happen because of the draft slot and nothing behind him. That was a nice route by Addison on the TD. He broke free easily and has soft hands. He's a smooth player. I don't understand why JJ didn't get much the 2nd half. TJ made some plays when he ran a route. That screen was over before it began. I guess Ezra whiffed on his block. Oliver got downfield for a nice one. I don't understand a wide open gap for Winfield to run through for an easy sack/strip. How is there a hole in Ingram's spot at the LOS. That was too easy for them. We couldn't get a turnover which hurt. We couldn't run the ball after some early success. Basically nothing. That never helps and shows the dominance at the point. Cousins took many hits again. He better get the vest on because it won't be an easy go on Thursday. At least we played the Eagles last year which will help the familiarity aspect but the execution in the pits will tell the story.
I really like Addisons play as well. I wish he would have been targeted more. And theres no excuse for our IOL failing completely. KOC and KAM Fed up not fixing it this offseason, saying they were happy with who we had here. I didnt see much of our LBs flying around the field. Old man Hicks was trying, Mettelous the safety was trying too but could only manage to takle after they caught or ran the ball. Asamouh is looking like a complete BUST as is Cine. Mattison and Ty had no holes open for them either.

Its going to be a long season fella's.
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Re: Bucs at Vikings Pre-Game

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CharVike wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:16 pm I don't understand a wide open gap for Winfield to run through for an easy sack/strip. How is there a hole in Ingram's spot at the LOS. That was too easy for them.
Pretty standard overload blitz that the Vikings failed to recognize and pick up. Maybe the lack of playing time in the preseason was more a factor in protection than KOC expected?
CharVike wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:16 pm We couldn't get a turnover which hurt.
I thought the Flores defense was pretty passive to be honest. Yeah, they blitzed but in terms of the secondary play I thought it was pretty soft overall. On the Evans' TD, the Vikings had 3 safeties on the field and yet Evans still got behind them. On the second Buc TD the receiver was wide open for the score while like 5 Vikings defenders watched from afar. It is insane to see the dead space in that zone in that situation where the Vikings were rushing only 3. Hard to create turnovers when the defense allows the offense to dictate and plays so passively.
CharVike wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:16 pm We couldn't run the ball after some early success.
I didn't see much early success, although YMMV. Mattison basically did what Mattison does which is plow forward and gut out the tough yards. I think I saw one run play with a decent hole for him to run though. On many others he was contacted at or behind the LOS and had to fight for every inch beyond that. That isn't a sustainable run game or something most defenses will respect going forward I'm afraid.
CharVike wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:16 pm At least we played the Eagles last year which will help the familiarity aspect but the execution in the pits will tell the story.
The familiarity works both ways unfortunately, so they'll be ready too. The biggest wildcard the Vikings have heading into this year is Flores and the defense, but to me it looks like the same fundamental issues remain despite some of the personnel changes.
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Re: Bucs at Vikings Pre-Game

Post by Pep2Moss »

No idea why Dalton Risner isn't signed yet. Ingram needs to sit.

Philly game has a chance to be brutal. Running game seems pretty pedestrian...Captain Kirk is becoming Captain Checkdown. I don't get it. Don't get how you let JJ get taken out of the game. Throw it close to him.

Kirk had some bad reads. You cant go KJ when he's double covered. Amazing how the offense becomes so non existant.