The Hockenson Contract Situation

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

CharVike
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3517
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:28 pm
x 701

Re: The Hockenson Contract Situation

Post by CharVike »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 7:47 pm
CharVike wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 4:49 pm
I realize that the type of offense will have an impact on a players stats. I saw the 15 with Detroit. Perhaps he was running deeper routes for them. Or perhaps he was breaking tackles for a change. What pisses me off with the sit in, besides the I don't care from TJ, is our GM stating that this guy is a culture fit. The genius should be smart enough not to say that BS. He needed to justify his trade so he paid whatever for a one dimensional player. There are times when these hold out/ sit ins lead to some type of injury once the guy starts playing. I've seen it before. We are TE heavy on O so they have plenty of other bodies to handle some action until TJ get's into football shape.
I still don't like the signing because I think we have more important players to sign and will not be able to sign them all. If our TE depth is what we think it is Hock's loss would matter, but maybe not as much as Kirk, JJ, Darisaw, Hunter, O'Neill. However, to act like Hock is not good is just wrong.
I never stated that he wasn't good. I like a better ypc average. Obviously our team don't. I would prefer a better blocker. In the real world a TE needs to block. I never read that was TJ's strength. I would have used the effort and money to find a G who can block the better DTs. That's only my opinion and they seem to be content with what's on board right now. I would trade TJ for a decent starting G. I doubt they would or maybe the other team would say get lost.
allday1991
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1281
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:31 pm
x 77

Re: The Hockenson Contract Situation

Post by allday1991 »

StanM wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2023 10:45 am If I was still in my twenties and had an opportunity to set myself and my family up damn well better believe it’s my number one priority. When the deal is signed and the ink dry my team loyalty would be outstanding. These guys can lose everything up to and including their life playing this game.

What’s the problem? I temper my expectations and don’t expect these guys to accept less than their position demands. Beyond that I have no influence on personnel decisions. My only job is to decide in September if the team deserves my attention for another season.

When I see people all bent out of shape and angry about it I just don’t get it. We watch football and other sports to relax, not to raise our BP and be upset. Hawk is good, he got paid, nothing more to see here. It’s not my money and he doesn’t give a damn how much my retirement check is. I see no sense in agonizing in Vikings signings of their key players. What am I missing here?
That’s kind of a I don’t really care approach, we got ourselves in bad contracts with the last gm and people are a little bit confused to why we have almost 30 million in our TE room. What’s the league average for reference? Didn’t touch the middle of the oline etc. I think people should be able to point these out and discuss them.
“I remember my mistakes more than my success.” - Adrian Peterson
StanM
Veteran
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:46 am
x 124

Re: The Hockenson Contract Situation

Post by StanM »

allday1991 wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 8:00 am
StanM wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2023 10:45 am If I was still in my twenties and had an opportunity to set myself and my family up damn well better believe it’s my number one priority. When the deal is signed and the ink dry my team loyalty would be outstanding. These guys can lose everything up to and including their life playing this game.

What’s the problem? I temper my expectations and don’t expect these guys to accept less than their position demands. Beyond that I have no influence on personnel decisions. My only job is to decide in September if the team deserves my attention for another season.

When I see people all bent out of shape and angry about it I just don’t get it. We watch football and other sports to relax, not to raise our BP and be upset. Hawk is good, he got paid, nothing more to see here. It’s not my money and he doesn’t give a damn how much my retirement check is. I see no sense in agonizing in Vikings signings of their key players. What am I missing here?
That’s kind of a I don’t really care approach, we got ourselves in bad contracts with the last gm and people are a little bit confused to why we have almost 30 million in our TE room. What’s the league average for reference? Didn’t touch the middle of the oline etc. I think people should be able to point these out and discuss them.
That’s my point, people can and do agonize over personnel decisions they have no control over. I’ve been watching the Vikings since 1961 and a lot of bad decisions were made. We had weak position groups for years, some were resolved and some affected our competitiveness. My only concern was always “do I devote another fall to following the team?” No team has a perfect roster at all positions. The ones that find ways to make it more difficult for opponents to exploit weaknesses are successful.

People can agonize over every roster detail and could have should have scenario they like if that’s their approach to sports.
StanM
Veteran
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:46 am
x 124

Re: The Hockenson Contract Situation

Post by StanM »

PS, Hock looks like a Viking warrior. He’s good and being an Iowa boy is all in on helping us win. I like that regardless of the financial details. Retired accountants don’t watch football to count beans in retirement.
CharVike
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3517
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:28 pm
x 701

Re: The Hockenson Contract Situation

Post by CharVike »

allday1991 wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 8:00 am
StanM wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2023 10:45 am If I was still in my twenties and had an opportunity to set myself and my family up damn well better believe it’s my number one priority. When the deal is signed and the ink dry my team loyalty would be outstanding. These guys can lose everything up to and including their life playing this game.

What’s the problem? I temper my expectations and don’t expect these guys to accept less than their position demands. Beyond that I have no influence on personnel decisions. My only job is to decide in September if the team deserves my attention for another season.

When I see people all bent out of shape and angry about it I just don’t get it. We watch football and other sports to relax, not to raise our BP and be upset. Hawk is good, he got paid, nothing more to see here. It’s not my money and he doesn’t give a damn how much my retirement check is. I see no sense in agonizing in Vikings signings of their key players. What am I missing here?
That’s kind of a I don’t really care approach, we got ourselves in bad contracts with the last gm and people are a little bit confused to why we have almost 30 million in our TE room. What’s the league average for reference? Didn’t touch the middle of the oline etc. I think people should be able to point these out and discuss them.
Discussion item for a board is all it is. Yes sports should be relaxing but I've seen many moments when it wasn't very relaxing. Our playoff game last year was a perfect example. Watching Jones complete passes like he was playing in a pre season game wasn't relaxing. Seeing a 3 yard completion on 4th and 8 wasn't relaxing either. It was a WTF moment. Watching our QB get the sh!t beat out of him and not doing anything to stop it wasn't relaxing either. The only way it's relaxing is if you don't care about the outcome. That's usually not the case with sports. Investing nearly 30 mill in the TE position is stupid. Wait until all these safeties we need for this version of the 3-4 need contracts. For 6 of them it will be up there.
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9774
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 1858

Re: The Hockenson Contract Situation

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

CharVike wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 2:56 pm
allday1991 wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 8:00 am

That’s kind of a I don’t really care approach, we got ourselves in bad contracts with the last gm and people are a little bit confused to why we have almost 30 million in our TE room. What’s the league average for reference? Didn’t touch the middle of the oline etc. I think people should be able to point these out and discuss them.
Discussion item for a board is all it is. Yes sports should be relaxing but I've seen many moments when it wasn't very relaxing. Our playoff game last year was a perfect example. Watching Jones complete passes like he was playing in a pre season game wasn't relaxing. Seeing a 3 yard completion on 4th and 8 wasn't relaxing either. It was a WTF moment. Watching our QB get the sh!t beat out of him and not doing anything to stop it wasn't relaxing either. The only way it's relaxing is if you don't care about the outcome. That's usually not the case with sports. Investing nearly 30 mill in the TE position is stupid. Wait until all these safeties we need for this version of the 3-4 need contracts. For 6 of them it will be up there.
You know what else wasn’t relaxing?

Watching a mediocre Daniel Jones carve up the Vikings defense.

You want to blame the 4th-and-8 play for everything that ails the Vikings. It seems like you want to use that play as the reason to not pay certain players. It was ONE PLAY that had nothing to do with the tissue paper defense the Vikings put up. Even if the Vikings had converted that play, they were down 7. There’s no guarantee they would’ve gone down to score, and no guarantee they would’ve won if the game had gone to overtime. The thing we DO know is that 4th-and-8 wouldn’t have been necessary if the Vikings had even an average defense. They were never going on a playoff run with the defense they had.

Also, the Vikings aren’t paying $30 million to their tight end room. You’re applying Hockenson’s average annual value to 2023, which is wrong. His cap hit for 2023 is $4.9 million. And they won’t ever be paying big money to six safeties. Smith took a pay cut, and the others are all on rookie or minimum contracts.

It’s fine to question contracts. It’s what we fans do. But it would be great if we all would try to use accurate facts to make our points.
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4074
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 736

Re: The Hockenson Contract Situation

Post by VikingsVictorious »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:25 am
CharVike wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 2:56 pm
Discussion item for a board is all it is. Yes sports should be relaxing but I've seen many moments when it wasn't very relaxing. Our playoff game last year was a perfect example. Watching Jones complete passes like he was playing in a pre season game wasn't relaxing. Seeing a 3 yard completion on 4th and 8 wasn't relaxing either. It was a WTF moment. Watching our QB get the sh!t beat out of him and not doing anything to stop it wasn't relaxing either. The only way it's relaxing is if you don't care about the outcome. That's usually not the case with sports. Investing nearly 30 mill in the TE position is stupid. Wait until all these safeties we need for this version of the 3-4 need contracts. For 6 of them it will be up there.
You know what else wasn’t relaxing?

Watching a mediocre Daniel Jones carve up the Vikings defense.

You want to blame the 4th-and-8 play for everything that ails the Vikings. It seems like you want to use that play as the reason to not pay certain players. It was ONE PLAY that had nothing to do with the tissue paper defense the Vikings put up. Even if the Vikings had converted that play, they were down 7. There’s no guarantee they would’ve gone down to score, and no guarantee they would’ve won if the game had gone to overtime. The thing we DO know is that 4th-and-8 wouldn’t have been necessary if the Vikings had even an average defense. They were never going on a playoff run with the defense they had.

Also, the Vikings aren’t paying $30 million to their tight end room. You’re applying Hockenson’s average annual value to 2023, which is wrong. His cap hit for 2023 is $4.9 million. And they won’t ever be paying big money to six safeties. Smith took a pay cut, and the others are all on rookie or minimum contracts.

It’s fine to question contracts. It’s what we fans do. But it would be great if we all would try to use accurate facts to make our points.
Sheet happens. :hitfan: . That play didn't work out. There were many other plays that didn't work out. However since that was our last play people beat it to death. :spanking:
CharVike
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3517
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:28 pm
x 701

Re: The Hockenson Contract Situation

Post by CharVike »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:25 am
CharVike wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 2:56 pm
Discussion item for a board is all it is. Yes sports should be relaxing but I've seen many moments when it wasn't very relaxing. Our playoff game last year was a perfect example. Watching Jones complete passes like he was playing in a pre season game wasn't relaxing. Seeing a 3 yard completion on 4th and 8 wasn't relaxing either. It was a WTF moment. Watching our QB get the sh!t beat out of him and not doing anything to stop it wasn't relaxing either. The only way it's relaxing is if you don't care about the outcome. That's usually not the case with sports. Investing nearly 30 mill in the TE position is stupid. Wait until all these safeties we need for this version of the 3-4 need contracts. For 6 of them it will be up there.
You know what else wasn’t relaxing?

Watching a mediocre Daniel Jones carve up the Vikings defense.

You want to blame the 4th-and-8 play for everything that ails the Vikings. It seems like you want to use that play as the reason to not pay certain players. It was ONE PLAY that had nothing to do with the tissue paper defense the Vikings put up. Even if the Vikings had converted that play, they were down 7. There’s no guarantee they would’ve gone down to score, and no guarantee they would’ve won if the game had gone to overtime. The thing we DO know is that 4th-and-8 wouldn’t have been necessary if the Vikings had even an average defense. They were never going on a playoff run with the defense they had.

Also, the Vikings aren’t paying $30 million to their tight end room. You’re applying Hockenson’s average annual value to 2023, which is wrong. His cap hit for 2023 is $4.9 million. And they won’t ever be paying big money to six safeties. Smith took a pay cut, and the others are all on rookie or minimum contracts.

It’s fine to question contracts. It’s what we fans do. But it would be great if we all would try to use accurate facts to make our points.
Cap hits and salaries are two different animals. The 4th and 8 was an example of not relaxing. The pass to Nelson during the championship game wasn't relaxing either. The hail mary pass wasn't exactly the most relaxing moment either unless Dallas was your pick. Peg's miss of an easy GW FG in AZ wasn't relaxing. Cook's fumble when we were driving down the field against the Bengals wasn't too relaxing either. The discussion point was not relaxing. You can find play upon play to stress this or use one example. The 4th and 8 was IMO the most recent example. No more than that.
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4074
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 736

Re: The Hockenson Contract Situation

Post by VikingsVictorious »

CharVike wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 9:28 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:25 am
You know what else wasn’t relaxing?

Watching a mediocre Daniel Jones carve up the Vikings defense.

You want to blame the 4th-and-8 play for everything that ails the Vikings. It seems like you want to use that play as the reason to not pay certain players. It was ONE PLAY that had nothing to do with the tissue paper defense the Vikings put up. Even if the Vikings had converted that play, they were down 7. There’s no guarantee they would’ve gone down to score, and no guarantee they would’ve won if the game had gone to overtime. The thing we DO know is that 4th-and-8 wouldn’t have been necessary if the Vikings had even an average defense. They were never going on a playoff run with the defense they had.

Also, the Vikings aren’t paying $30 million to their tight end room. You’re applying Hockenson’s average annual value to 2023, which is wrong. His cap hit for 2023 is $4.9 million. And they won’t ever be paying big money to six safeties. Smith took a pay cut, and the others are all on rookie or minimum contracts.

It’s fine to question contracts. It’s what we fans do. But it would be great if we all would try to use accurate facts to make our points.
Cap hits and salaries are two different animals. The 4th and 8 was an example of not relaxing. The pass to Nelson during the championship game wasn't relaxing either. The hail mary pass wasn't exactly the most relaxing moment either unless Dallas was your pick. Peg's miss of an easy GW FG in AZ wasn't relaxing. Cook's fumble when we were driving down the field against the Bengals wasn't too relaxing either. The discussion point was not relaxing. You can find play upon play to stress this or use one example. The 4th and 8 was IMO the most recent example. No more than that.
I'm with you on that analysis. Every game is filled with plays that either thrill you or pizza you off.
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9774
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 1858

Re: The Hockenson Contract Situation

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:30 am
CharVike wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 9:28 am
Cap hits and salaries are two different animals. The 4th and 8 was an example of not relaxing. The pass to Nelson during the championship game wasn't relaxing either. The hail mary pass wasn't exactly the most relaxing moment either unless Dallas was your pick. Peg's miss of an easy GW FG in AZ wasn't relaxing. Cook's fumble when we were driving down the field against the Bengals wasn't too relaxing either. The discussion point was not relaxing. You can find play upon play to stress this or use one example. The 4th and 8 was IMO the most recent example. No more than that.
I'm with you on that analysis. Every game is filled with plays that either thrill you or pizza you off.
I don’t even understand that analysis.

Bottom line, 4th and 8 didn’t lose the Giants game. It was one factor out of many that lost the game, not something to analyze the money the Vikings are paying the tight end room just because a tight end caught the pass and didn’t convert.
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.
CharVike
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3517
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:28 pm
x 701

Re: The Hockenson Contract Situation

Post by CharVike »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:30 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:30 am
I'm with you on that analysis. Every game is filled with plays that either thrill you or pizza you off.
I don’t even understand that analysis.

Bottom line, 4th and 8 didn’t lose the Giants game. It was one factor out of many that lost the game, not something to analyze the money the Vikings are paying the tight end room just because a tight end caught the pass and didn’t convert.
This was all about game situations that are not relaxing to watch. No more than that.
StanM
Veteran
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:46 am
x 124

Re: The Hockenson Contract Situation

Post by StanM »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:25 am
CharVike wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 2:56 pm
Discussion item for a board is all it is. Yes sports should be relaxing but I've seen many moments when it wasn't very relaxing. Our playoff game last year was a perfect example. Watching Jones complete passes like he was playing in a pre season game wasn't relaxing. Seeing a 3 yard completion on 4th and 8 wasn't relaxing either. It was a WTF moment. Watching our QB get the sh!t beat out of him and not doing anything to stop it wasn't relaxing either. The only way it's relaxing is if you don't care about the outcome. That's usually not the case with sports. Investing nearly 30 mill in the TE position is stupid. Wait until all these safeties we need for this version of the 3-4 need contracts. For 6 of them it will be up there.
You know what else wasn’t relaxing?

Watching a mediocre Daniel Jones carve up the Vikings defense.

You want to blame the 4th-and-8 play for everything that ails the Vikings. It seems like you want to use that play as the reason to not pay certain players. It was ONE PLAY that had nothing to do with the tissue paper defense the Vikings put up. Even if the Vikings had converted that play, they were down 7. There’s no guarantee they would’ve gone down to score, and no guarantee they would’ve won if the game had gone to overtime. The thing we DO know is that 4th-and-8 wouldn’t have been necessary if the Vikings had even an average defense. They were never going on a playoff run with the defense they had.

Also, the Vikings aren’t paying $30 million to their tight end room. You’re applying Hockenson’s average annual value to 2023, which is wrong. His cap hit for 2023 is $4.9 million. And they won’t ever be paying big money to six safeties. Smith took a pay cut, and the others are all on rookie or minimum contracts.

It’s fine to question contracts. It’s what we fans do. But it would be great if we all would try to use accurate facts to make our points.
I darned near blew a gasket that time Drew Pearson pushed off and the Cowboys won. I think that was my ah ha moment regarding sports and the Vikings. Today with all the analysis a person can follow every move and I do watch and ask many of the same questions as everyone else. Regardless of my concerns they’re not going to solicit my opinion or take them into consideration.
CharVike
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3517
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:28 pm
x 701

Re: The Hockenson Contract Situation

Post by CharVike »

StanM wrote: Wed Sep 13, 2023 9:14 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:25 am
You know what else wasn’t relaxing?

Watching a mediocre Daniel Jones carve up the Vikings defense.

You want to blame the 4th-and-8 play for everything that ails the Vikings. It seems like you want to use that play as the reason to not pay certain players. It was ONE PLAY that had nothing to do with the tissue paper defense the Vikings put up. Even if the Vikings had converted that play, they were down 7. There’s no guarantee they would’ve gone down to score, and no guarantee they would’ve won if the game had gone to overtime. The thing we DO know is that 4th-and-8 wouldn’t have been necessary if the Vikings had even an average defense. They were never going on a playoff run with the defense they had.

Also, the Vikings aren’t paying $30 million to their tight end room. You’re applying Hockenson’s average annual value to 2023, which is wrong. His cap hit for 2023 is $4.9 million. And they won’t ever be paying big money to six safeties. Smith took a pay cut, and the others are all on rookie or minimum contracts.

It’s fine to question contracts. It’s what we fans do. But it would be great if we all would try to use accurate facts to make our points.
I darned near blew a gasket that time Drew Pearson pushed off and the Cowboys won. I think that was my ah ha moment regarding sports and the Vikings. Today with all the analysis a person can follow every move and I do watch and ask many of the same questions as everyone else. Regardless of my concerns they’re not going to solicit my opinion or take them into consideration.
Most of us are older fans and once I hit my 40s I realized this isn't worth getting PO about. I would get so pissed off when we got beat. I'm sure many younger fans are like that still. Old age brings wisdom we all know it's not the end of the world if we get beat or our favorite player isn't drafted or FA signed. I like to hear peoples opinions and it's great for all of us that Cliff keeps the board up. Being in my early 60s now I focused on things that are more important at this stage in life. Don't get me wrong a Super Bowl victory would be sweet.
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4074
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 736

Re: The Hockenson Contract Situation

Post by VikingsVictorious »

Hock with two very nice short TD grabs. It wasn't enough.
JJBreaksRecords
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 515
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:22 pm
x 71

Re: The Hockenson Contract Situation

Post by JJBreaksRecords »

TJ was overpaid, for what the team uses him for, and thats on KOC. Oliver could do most of what TJ is doing. TJ should be the #2 receiver right now, followed closely by Addison, and then further down the line, KJ.