Dalvin Cook's Future

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Cliff
Site Admin
Posts: 9545
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:51 pm
Location: Kentucky
x 463

Re: Dalvin Cook's Future

Post by Cliff »

CharVike wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:59 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 8:58 pm I just watched the last minutes of the 2022 Vikings vs Bills.
So fun. Remembering that game makes me miss Dalvin Cook, but all in all it's for the best that he's gone.
Cook had a very good career with us. I enjoyed watching him. I surprised we couldn't get anything for him. Don't matter now.
He was fun to watch for sure. Nobody wanted to take on his contract the way it was structured.
User avatar
chicagopurple
All Pro Elite Player
Posts: 1498
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:45 am
x 88

Re: Dalvin Cook's Future

Post by chicagopurple »

Sadly, in the modern NFL, there is no winning formula that includes a highly paid running back. The rules are greatly in favor of the passing game, the pay structure makes it fool hardy to put a bunch of cap money into a position that historically has a VERY short career before injury takes a toll, AND a RB requires a good OL which we may never have again, at this current rate. Now we see him already with some injuries, possible personal legal issues, so it made no sense to keep him. MAYBE if he was an epic pass blocker, it might have made sense to keep him since we need all the help we can get on the OL but he really never showed much there.
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4201
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 750

Re: Dalvin Cook's Future

Post by VikingsVictorious »

chicagopurple wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2023 2:07 pm Sadly, in the modern NFL, there is no winning formula that includes a highly paid running back. The rules are greatly in favor of the passing game, the pay structure makes it fool hardy to put a bunch of cap money into a position that historically has a VERY short career before injury takes a toll, AND a RB requires a good OL which we may never have again, at this current rate. Now we see him already with some injuries, possible personal legal issues, so it made no sense to keep him. MAYBE if he was an epic pass blocker, it might have made sense to keep him since we need all the help we can get on the OL but he really never showed much there.
I find a great running play far more exciting than a great passing play. I also hate the 3 point shot. It's a travesty. I think an extremely good RB gives an advantage versus mediocre ones. They are worth being at least somewhat highly paid. Hopefully our group can be at least average this year.
CharVike
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3613
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:28 pm
x 749

Re: Dalvin Cook's Future

Post by CharVike »

chicagopurple wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2023 2:07 pm Sadly, in the modern NFL, there is no winning formula that includes a highly paid running back. The rules are greatly in favor of the passing game, the pay structure makes it fool hardy to put a bunch of cap money into a position that historically has a VERY short career before injury takes a toll, AND a RB requires a good OL which we may never have again, at this current rate. Now we see him already with some injuries, possible personal legal issues, so it made no sense to keep him. MAYBE if he was an epic pass blocker, it might have made sense to keep him since we need all the help we can get on the OL but he really never showed much there.
You need to play well at the LOS. The Chiefs who are the current dynasty have a great OL. They traded Hill who is one of the best and there was little if any fall back. They can put a 7th round back in there because they open holes. Teams go after our IOL. The Bills did it here and the Giants did the same thing months later in the playoffs. Hello it's our soft spot. We could have traded for Dotson and signed a FA. That wouldn't make us the best but it wouldn't be horrible anymore.
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9783
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 1869

Re: Dalvin Cook's Future

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2023 2:23 pm
chicagopurple wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2023 2:07 pm Sadly, in the modern NFL, there is no winning formula that includes a highly paid running back. The rules are greatly in favor of the passing game, the pay structure makes it fool hardy to put a bunch of cap money into a position that historically has a VERY short career before injury takes a toll, AND a RB requires a good OL which we may never have again, at this current rate. Now we see him already with some injuries, possible personal legal issues, so it made no sense to keep him. MAYBE if he was an epic pass blocker, it might have made sense to keep him since we need all the help we can get on the OL but he really never showed much there.
I find a great running play far more exciting than a great passing play. I also hate the 3 point shot. It's a travesty. I think an extremely good RB gives an advantage versus mediocre ones. They are worth being at least somewhat highly paid. Hopefully our group can be at least average this year.
A little off topic, but I love the 3-point shot. The game was borderline unwatchable before the 3-pointer came into vogue. Teams would just pack the lane on defense, slowing the game game to a standstill. You could hide a guy who didn’t defend. Now if you leave a shooter open, you pay for it. And there’s more room to operate, so the game flows. Ball movement, always a beautiful thing, is rewarded.

As for running plays … sure, a long run is exciting, but it’s also rare. I loved the 70s Vikings, but you’ll never convince me it was a more exciting brand of football overall. For every long run, there were a hundred plays of 3 yards and a cloud of dust. In those days, 55% completions would lead the league, and quarterbacks routinely threw 20 or more picks. Defense dominated everything. Sorry, but sitting in freezing cold Metropolitan Stadium and watching punt after punt (which I did many times) doesn’t compare to being in US Bank Stadium while Cousins and Jefferson go crazy.

I may be old, but I can appreciate the beauty of the modern version of both games.
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4201
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 750

Re: Dalvin Cook's Future

Post by VikingsVictorious »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:10 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2023 2:23 pm

I find a great running play far more exciting than a great passing play. I also hate the 3 point shot. It's a travesty. I think an extremely good RB gives an advantage versus mediocre ones. They are worth being at least somewhat highly paid. Hopefully our group can be at least average this year.
A little off topic, but I love the 3-point shot. The game was borderline unwatchable before the 3-pointer came into vogue. Teams would just pack the lane on defense, slowing the game game to a standstill. You could hide a guy who didn’t defend. Now if you leave a shooter open, you pay for it. And there’s more room to operate, so the game flows. Ball movement, always a beautiful thing, is rewarded.

As for running plays … sure, a long run is exciting, but it’s also rare. I loved the 70s Vikings, but you’ll never convince me it was a more exciting brand of football overall. For every long run, there were a hundred plays of 3 yards and a cloud of dust. In those days, 55% completions would lead the league, and quarterbacks routinely threw 20 or more picks. Defense dominated everything. Sorry, but sitting in freezing cold Metropolitan Stadium and watching punt after punt (which I did many times) doesn’t compare to being in US Bank Stadium while Cousins and Jefferson go crazy.

I may be old, but I can appreciate the beauty of the modern version of both games.
It sure is cool that a 50 yard TD pass is worth 9 points, a 50 yard FG is worth 4.5, a goal scored from outside the blue line is worth 1.5, a 500 foot home run counts for 1.5 times each person who scored and a soccer goal from 100 feet or more is worth 1.5. What none of those are true. Is it because all those sports aren't idiotic like the NBA? The 3 point shot originated as a gimmick by the ABA along with red white and blue basketballs in a feeble attempt to compete with the NBA. It was fun as a gimmick for a little while until all the teams started figuring out that we can really take advantage of getting 50% more for doing the same thing we always have, but just from further away. Now the NBA is unwatchable due to everybody on the court not even bothering to try to get a higher percentage shot because odds are with you shooting the lower percentage shot. Something really wrong about that. My rant. Horrible travesty upon the league.
Hopefully the NFL will never be idiotic enough to reward more points for distance, but the way they've made it almost impossible to play defense is almost as bad. I'm old, but I appreciate the time that NFL teams could play defense and tackling a guy gently was not a requirement.
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9783
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 1869

Re: Dalvin Cook's Future

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 8:14 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:10 am
A little off topic, but I love the 3-point shot. The game was borderline unwatchable before the 3-pointer came into vogue. Teams would just pack the lane on defense, slowing the game game to a standstill. You could hide a guy who didn’t defend. Now if you leave a shooter open, you pay for it. And there’s more room to operate, so the game flows. Ball movement, always a beautiful thing, is rewarded.

As for running plays … sure, a long run is exciting, but it’s also rare. I loved the 70s Vikings, but you’ll never convince me it was a more exciting brand of football overall. For every long run, there were a hundred plays of 3 yards and a cloud of dust. In those days, 55% completions would lead the league, and quarterbacks routinely threw 20 or more picks. Defense dominated everything. Sorry, but sitting in freezing cold Metropolitan Stadium and watching punt after punt (which I did many times) doesn’t compare to being in US Bank Stadium while Cousins and Jefferson go crazy.

I may be old, but I can appreciate the beauty of the modern version of both games.
It sure is cool that a 50 yard TD pass is worth 9 points, a 50 yard FG is worth 4.5, a goal scored from outside the blue line is worth 1.5, a 500 foot home run counts for 1.5 times each person who scored and a soccer goal from 100 feet or more is worth 1.5. What none of those are true. Is it because all those sports aren't idiotic like the NBA? The 3 point shot originated as a gimmick by the ABA along with red white and blue basketballs in a feeble attempt to compete with the NBA. It was fun as a gimmick for a little while until all the teams started figuring out that we can really take advantage of getting 50% more for doing the same thing we always have, but just from further away. Now the NBA is unwatchable due to everybody on the court not even bothering to try to get a higher percentage shot because odds are with you shooting the lower percentage shot. Something really wrong about that. My rant. Horrible travesty upon the league.
Hopefully the NFL will never be idiotic enough to reward more points for distance, but the way they've made it almost impossible to play defense is almost as bad. I'm old, but I appreciate the time that NFL teams could play defense and tackling a guy gently was not a requirement.
While I agree with you on distance being rewarded in the NFL would be silly, we’ll just agree to disagree on basketball.
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4201
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 750

Re: Dalvin Cook's Future

Post by VikingsVictorious »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:26 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 8:14 am
It sure is cool that a 50 yard TD pass is worth 9 points, a 50 yard FG is worth 4.5, a goal scored from outside the blue line is worth 1.5, a 500 foot home run counts for 1.5 times each person who scored and a soccer goal from 100 feet or more is worth 1.5. What none of those are true. Is it because all those sports aren't idiotic like the NBA? The 3 point shot originated as a gimmick by the ABA along with red white and blue basketballs in a feeble attempt to compete with the NBA. It was fun as a gimmick for a little while until all the teams started figuring out that we can really take advantage of getting 50% more for doing the same thing we always have, but just from further away. Now the NBA is unwatchable due to everybody on the court not even bothering to try to get a higher percentage shot because odds are with you shooting the lower percentage shot. Something really wrong about that. My rant. Horrible travesty upon the league.
Hopefully the NFL will never be idiotic enough to reward more points for distance, but the way they've made it almost impossible to play defense is almost as bad. I'm old, but I appreciate the time that NFL teams could play defense and tackling a guy gently was not a requirement.
While I agree with you on distance being rewarded in the NFL would be silly, we’ll just agree to disagree on basketball.
Good post, but we don't need to agree to disagree. We can disagree with no agreement about it.

Seriously though it's silly to award distance scoring in the NFL so why isn't it silly to award distance scoring in the NBA? I'm done discussing that on this football page. I just want to leave you with that thought.
User avatar
Cliff
Site Admin
Posts: 9545
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:51 pm
Location: Kentucky
x 463

Re: Dalvin Cook's Future

Post by Cliff »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 11:25 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:26 pm
While I agree with you on distance being rewarded in the NFL would be silly, we’ll just agree to disagree on basketball.
Good post, but we don't need to agree to disagree. We can disagree with no agreement about it.

Seriously though it's silly to award distance scoring in the NFL so why isn't it silly to award distance scoring in the NBA? I'm done discussing that on this football page. I just want to leave you with that thought.
They're two different sports. You also can't tackle in basketball. I guess I don't get why the apple should taste like an orange.
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4201
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 750

Re: Dalvin Cook's Future

Post by VikingsVictorious »

Cliff wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 1:36 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 11:25 am
Good post, but we don't need to agree to disagree. We can disagree with no agreement about it.

Seriously though it's silly to award distance scoring in the NFL so why isn't it silly to award distance scoring in the NBA? I'm done discussing that on this football page. I just want to leave you with that thought.
They're two different sports. You also can't tackle in basketball. I guess I don't get why the apple should taste like an orange.
They're different sports but basketball is the only significant sport that does the goofy bonus points for distance system.
fiestavike
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4962
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:03 am
x 398

Re: Dalvin Cook's Future

Post by fiestavike »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 2:34 pm
Cliff wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 1:36 pm

They're two different sports. You also can't tackle in basketball. I guess I don't get why the apple should taste like an orange.
They're different sports but basketball is the only significant sport that does the goofy bonus points for distance system.
I could live with the 3 point shot if they let them play defense again. But like most sports, defense has been diminished almost to the point of being outlawed to make the game 'more exciting'. That people actually find it more exciting is the mystery to me.
"You like that!"
-- Cap'n Spazz Cousins
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4201
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 750

Re: Dalvin Cook's Future

Post by VikingsVictorious »

fiestavike wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:40 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 2:34 pm
They're different sports but basketball is the only significant sport that does the goofy bonus points for distance system.
I could live with the 3 point shot if they let them play defense again. But like most sports, defense has been diminished almost to the point of being outlawed to make the game 'more exciting'. That people actually find it more exciting is the mystery to me.
Agreed. Calling fouls in basketball or roughness in football for basically giving them a dirty look has hurt both games.
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9783
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 1869

Re: Dalvin Cook's Future

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

fiestavike wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:40 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 2:34 pm
They're different sports but basketball is the only significant sport that does the goofy bonus points for distance system.
I could live with the 3 point shot if they let them play defense again. But like most sports, defense has been diminished almost to the point of being outlawed to make the game 'more exciting'. That people actually find it more exciting is the mystery to me.
This is where I disagree.

Before the 3-point shot, and really before the basketball world discovered that you could win by making the 3-pointer a significant part of the game, you could hide bad defenders by packing the lane. The court was clogged. The game was all about which team had the best big man. The objective was to score from as close to the basket as possible, and that’s where the 7-footers lived.

Now if you don’t defend all over the floor, you get exposed. The floor is much more spread, which means you don’t get as much help on defense. It has opened up the passing game and more motion-based offenses. Teams with 7-footers are often at a disadvantage because most of those guys aren’t mobile enough defensively. I live in Iowa and watch a lot of Hawkeye basketball. They are perennially one of the highest-scoring teams in the nation. They play a fan-pleasing style of up-tempo basketball with lots of players having the green light to put up threes whenever they want. They win 20 games every year. But they’re never a true contender, either in the Big Ten or nationally. The reason? Fran McCaffery’s teams are never any good defensively.

Bottom line, defense is anything but outlawed. If you can’t defend, you don’t win. It’s true in college ball, and it’s true in the NBA. Golden State won four titles, and everybody thought it was because of Curry, Durant and Thompson raining 3s. But the truth is that they won those titles in large part because they were the best defensive team in the NBA, by every meaningful metric. Defense may not win championships in football anymore, but it certainly does in basketball.
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.
makila
Franchise Player
Posts: 497
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:43 pm
x 171

Re: Dalvin Cook's Future

Post by makila »

I love internet message boards. :P
Image
vikeinmontana
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3170
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:23 pm
x 140

Re: Dalvin Cook's Future

Post by vikeinmontana »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue Sep 12, 2023 8:11 am
fiestavike wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:40 am

I could live with the 3 point shot if they let them play defense again. But like most sports, defense has been diminished almost to the point of being outlawed to make the game 'more exciting'. That people actually find it more exciting is the mystery to me.
This is where I disagree.

Before the 3-point shot, and really before the basketball world discovered that you could win by making the 3-pointer a significant part of the game, you could hide bad defenders by packing the lane. The court was clogged. The game was all about which team had the best big man. The objective was to score from as close to the basket as possible, and that’s where the 7-footers lived.

Now if you don’t defend all over the floor, you get exposed. The floor is much more spread, which means you don’t get as much help on defense. It has opened up the passing game and more motion-based offenses. Teams with 7-footers are often at a disadvantage because most of those guys aren’t mobile enough defensively. I live in Iowa and watch a lot of Hawkeye basketball. They are perennially one of the highest-scoring teams in the nation. They play a fan-pleasing style of up-tempo basketball with lots of players having the green light to put up threes whenever they want. They win 20 games every year. But they’re never a true contender, either in the Big Ten or nationally. The reason? Fran McCaffery’s teams are never any good defensively.

Bottom line, defense is anything but outlawed. If you can’t defend, you don’t win. It’s true in college ball, and it’s true in the NBA. Golden State won four titles, and everybody thought it was because of Curry, Durant and Thompson raining 3s. But the truth is that they won those titles in large part because they were the best defensive team in the NBA, by every meaningful metric. Defense may not win championships in football anymore, but it certainly does in basketball.
Good points Kapp. Adding the 3pt shot has made the game much better for all the reasons you described. You're simply forced to defend the entire half court, and not just post up under the hoop. It's also played a huge role in the overall evolution of the basketball player. Big men can do things that dominant big men were never able to do 20+ years ago. And because of this you have to defend them completely different as well.

If we're changing the game we may as well start giving 2 points for free throws too.... 8)
i'm ready for a beer.