Live Draft Chat

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Cliff
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Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by Cliff »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 9:35 am
CharVike wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 8:44 am
How about the throw to JJ against the Bills. I'm sure there are more. Throwing a guy open is a little over the top. It has no meaning or measurement. A hail mary can be called throwing a guy open. Many things go into completing a pass. If Rodgers can throw guys open he wouldn't have struggled last year with the young guys. Just throw them open. It don't work that way IMO. I do like CJ Stroud. But I also liked Lock and Jones. So my opinion isn't very sound.
Over the top?

Spend 5 minutes to watch this.

I think there's a difference between the idea that the QB can place the ball in such a way that the receiver magically becomes "open" and throwing the ball into the nearest open window that a receiver can safely get to without fear of a turnover. The former doesn't exist, the latter is what Warner is talking about and IMO requires even more skilled receivers to pull off, which the Vikings have. In the context of "what should Kirk have done", considering their WRs, throwing to an open window and letting the WR make a play is a good strategy.

Warner describes it as: "throw it to where the defense isn't hoping the receiver gets there". Doing that with poor receivers isn't going to help much.
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Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by VikingsVictorious »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Wed May 03, 2023 10:22 am
CharVike wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 12:10 pm
I watched it. I wouldn't use Dak Prescott as an example. He's still trying to understand what to do with the ball after the play. Should go to the referee but under the heat of the battle it's hard to remember that.
I don’t understand you sometimes.

The point isn’t Dak Prescott. Who cares WHO the quarterback is? The video is about the concept of throwing guys open, which you said is an “over the top” concept. Here is a Hall-Of-Fame quarterback, one of the smartest QBs to ever play the game, explaining the concept, and your takeaway is “I wouldn’t use Dak Prescott as an example”?

Be better, man.
To me the video from Warner was kind of DUH. It provided no insight whatsoever. The QB should throw the ball where only his receiver can get get it, but not the defense. Again I say DUH.
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Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by CharVike »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed May 03, 2023 9:46 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Wed May 03, 2023 10:22 am
I don’t understand you sometimes.

The point isn’t Dak Prescott. Who cares WHO the quarterback is? The video is about the concept of throwing guys open, which you said is an “over the top” concept. Here is a Hall-Of-Fame quarterback, one of the smartest QBs to ever play the game, explaining the concept, and your takeaway is “I wouldn’t use Dak Prescott as an example”?

Be better, man.
To me the video from Warner was kind of DUH. It provided no insight whatsoever. The QB should throw the ball where only his receiver can get get it, but not the defense. Again I say DUH.
Cousins also always waits for the guy to get open. That's wrong also. Last year Reagor stopped his route and Cousins threw an interception. He threw it to a spot. Reagor quite on the play. That's one of many reason why the guy didn't see the field much and the Eagles dumped him. He's not very good and doesn't care. Cousins takes no chance. Again Reagor is involved.... Cousins was creamed by a guy coming up the middle and just threw it up to Reagor. Reagor had to come back for the ball. You could say Cousins threw him open. That was a big risk by Cousins and he was lucky it wasn't picked off. He couldn't get much on it because he was creamed. We had 3 interior lineman watching doing nothing. It's 3 against 1. Bury that guy. He ran free.
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Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by Cliff »

VikingLord wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 8:05 pm Undrafted free agents signed by the Vikings (https://www.vikings.com/news/undrafted- ... -nfl-draft):

OL Alan Ali, TCU
DT Calvin Avery, Illinois
ILB Abraham Beauplan, Marshall
OLB Andre Carter II, Army
OL Jacky Chen, Pace
CB C.J. Coldon, Oklahoma
ILB Wilson Huber, Cincinnati
WR Cephus Johnson, Southeastern Louisiana
WR Malik Knowles, Kansas State
ILB Ivan Pace, Jr., Cincinnati
K Jack Podlesny, Georgia
TE Ben Sims, Baylor
WR Thayer Thomas, N.C. State
CB NaJee Thompson, Georgia Southern
CB Jaylin Williams, Indiana

I highlighted 2 names on that list because I was shocked both went undrafted as I saw plenty of mocks that had both of them going as high as the 3rd round.

Carter in particular has rare length for an edge defender at 6'7". He's not very heavy (260 lbs), but he also played for Army and should be able to get into the weight room and focus on filling out his frame. He strikes me as a perfect fit for a 3-4 edge defender, especially if he can learn the position and isn't thrust into an immediate starting role. I have no idea why he went undrafted, but assuming there isn't a major red flag behind that, this guy could end up being the definition of a steal where they got him.

Pace is another player I thought would go much higher. He has an attacking mentality and play style that stands out and can cover sideline to sideline. This is a guy who should thrive under the right coaching and in the right system. As with Carter, I'm not sure why he went undrafted and hope there aren't any major red flags with Pace, but I can see this guy killing it under Flores.
Screenshot_20230822_072032.jpg
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Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by VikingsVictorious »

Cliff wrote: Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:24 am
VikingLord wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 8:05 pm Undrafted free agents signed by the Vikings (https://www.vikings.com/news/undrafted- ... -nfl-draft):

OL Alan Ali, TCU
DT Calvin Avery, Illinois
ILB Abraham Beauplan, Marshall
OLB Andre Carter II, Army
OL Jacky Chen, Pace
CB C.J. Coldon, Oklahoma
ILB Wilson Huber, Cincinnati
WR Cephus Johnson, Southeastern Louisiana
WR Malik Knowles, Kansas State
ILB Ivan Pace, Jr., Cincinnati
K Jack Podlesny, Georgia
TE Ben Sims, Baylor
WR Thayer Thomas, N.C. State
CB NaJee Thompson, Georgia Southern
CB Jaylin Williams, Indiana

I highlighted 2 names on that list because I was shocked both went undrafted as I saw plenty of mocks that had both of them going as high as the 3rd round.

Carter in particular has rare length for an edge defender at 6'7". He's not very heavy (260 lbs), but he also played for Army and should be able to get into the weight room and focus on filling out his frame. He strikes me as a perfect fit for a 3-4 edge defender, especially if he can learn the position and isn't thrust into an immediate starting role. I have no idea why he went undrafted, but assuming there isn't a major red flag behind that, this guy could end up being the definition of a steal where they got him.

Pace is another player I thought would go much higher. He has an attacking mentality and play style that stands out and can cover sideline to sideline. This is a guy who should thrive under the right coaching and in the right system. As with Carter, I'm not sure why he went undrafted and hope there aren't any major red flags with Pace, but I can see this guy killing it under Flores.
Screenshot_20230822_072032.jpg
Man do I remember the Asamoah hype for this year and now he is getting beat out by a UDFA.
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Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by VikingLord »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Aug 22, 2023 10:29 am
Cliff wrote: Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:24 am

Screenshot_20230822_072032.jpg
Man do I remember the Asamoah hype for this year and now he is getting beat out by a UDFA.
Interesting that the quote says Pace is overtaking Asamoah and not Hicks, because if I had to guess which of Hicks and Asamoah would be supplanted, I'd have guessed Hicks.

Still, we'll see. I liked what I saw from Asamoah last year.
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Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by JJBreaksRecords »

VikingLord wrote: Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:48 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Aug 22, 2023 10:29 am
Man do I remember the Asamoah hype for this year and now he is getting beat out by a UDFA.
Interesting that the quote says Pace is overtaking Asamoah and not Hicks, because if I had to guess which of Hicks and Asamoah would be supplanted, I'd have guessed Hicks.

Still, we'll see. I liked what I saw from Asamoah last year.
Whar did you see, other than his mainly being on the sidelines, kinda like this year so far?
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Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by VikingLord »

JJBreaksRecords wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2023 8:15 am
VikingLord wrote: Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:48 pm

Interesting that the quote says Pace is overtaking Asamoah and not Hicks, because if I had to guess which of Hicks and Asamoah would be supplanted, I'd have guessed Hicks.

Still, we'll see. I liked what I saw from Asamoah last year.
Whar did you see, other than his mainly being on the sidelines, kinda like this year so far?
Nice sarcasm! And the season hasn't even started yet...

Well, since you sardonically asked, I think it bears pointing out that the Vikings aren't playing any of their starters beyond possibly the rookies in the preseason so far this year. As to what I saw last year, I liked Asamoah's speed, awareness, and ability to cover coming out of Oklahoma, and while you're correct that he didn't get a ton of plays last year, there is a video on Youtube that analyzes his play specifically in one of the games against the Giants. You can watch it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZxg33S_GIs if you'd like.

Asamoah always been a little undersized, which makes him vulnerable to runs coming right at him, and those two factors will probably haunt him for the rest of his pro career as there is only so much speed and technique can mitigate 300+ pound offensive linemen coming right at someone who weighs considerably less than they do, but since the pro game has evolved away from power running attacks, Asamoah is actually a perfect fit for an attacking, shifting defense like the one Flores is likely to implement.

I think Pace is as well, which is why I believe Flores is going to find ways to get his most athletic and active LBs together on the field.

Anyway, hopefully the Vikings will improve this year along with your attitude.
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Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by VikingsVictorious »

VikingLord wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2023 1:41 pm
JJBreaksRecords wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2023 8:15 am

Whar did you see, other than his mainly being on the sidelines, kinda like this year so far?
Nice sarcasm! And the season hasn't even started yet...

Well, since you sardonically asked, I think it bears pointing out that the Vikings aren't playing any of their starters beyond possibly the rookies in the preseason so far this year. As to what I saw last year, I liked Asamoah's speed, awareness, and ability to cover coming out of Oklahoma, and while you're correct that he didn't get a ton of plays last year, there is a video on Youtube that analyzes his play specifically in one of the games against the Giants. You can watch it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZxg33S_GIs if you'd like.

Asamoah always been a little undersized, which makes him vulnerable to runs coming right at him, and those two factors will probably haunt him for the rest of his pro career as there is only so much speed and technique can mitigate 300+ pound offensive linemen coming right at someone who weighs considerably less than they do, but since the pro game has evolved away from power running attacks, Asamoah is actually a perfect fit for an attacking, shifting defense like the one Flores is likely to implement.

I think Pace is as well, which is why I believe Flores is going to find ways to get his most athletic and active LBs together on the field.

Anyway, hopefully the Vikings will improve this year along with your attitude.
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