Live Draft Chat

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

StanM
Veteran
Posts: 283
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:46 am
x 127

Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by StanM »

Maelstrom88 wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 4:44 pm They must be really confident in our interior offensive line. Zero depth at guard. Wish I had that kid of faith in Ezra, Ingram, and Bradbury.
The draft is only a piece of the puzzle. Thinking back on last year they were nowhere near done wheeling and dealing after the draft. It makes very little sense to agonize over fourth and fifth rounders. The law of averages says that a couple might work out and others could be gone. When we’re talking 4th and 5th rounders we may poach players off practice squads or find an undrafted FA that will find a roster spot instead of a draft pick.

This time of the year is fun to follow but there are still a lot of questions about 4, 55 and 99, if they’ll be traded or hammer out deals. Like I have been saying ever since the hires last year, the previous GM left bloated salaries and aging players and we’d have still had a mess. I think it’s going to take until 2024 before they work through the whole roster and put their stamp on this team.
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9783
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 1869

Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

StanM wrote: Sun Apr 30, 2023 10:12 am
Maelstrom88 wrote: Sat Apr 29, 2023 4:44 pm They must be really confident in our interior offensive line. Zero depth at guard. Wish I had that kid of faith in Ezra, Ingram, and Bradbury.
The draft is only a piece of the puzzle. Thinking back on last year they were nowhere near done wheeling and dealing after the draft. It makes very little sense to agonize over fourth and fifth rounders. The law of averages says that a couple might work out and others could be gone. When we’re talking 4th and 5th rounders we may poach players off practice squads or find an undrafted FA that will find a roster spot instead of a draft pick.

This time of the year is fun to follow but there are still a lot of questions about 4, 55 and 99, if they’ll be traded or hammer out deals. Like I have been saying ever since the hires last year, the previous GM left bloated salaries and aging players and we’d have still had a mess. I think it’s going to take until 2024 before they work through the whole roster and put their stamp on this team.
Exactly. Most of the bloated salaries come off the books in 2024 (Kirk's being the notable exception, as he has two void years). Also, the salary cap for 2024 is projected to be $256 million, which will open up even more cap space for the Vikings and everybody else. With such a high cap, free agency could be nuts next year.
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.
User avatar
IIsweet
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 921
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:02 pm
x 170

Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by IIsweet »

Completely agree with you StanM. It is going to take some time to completely make this team a SB contender.
They are getting younger and more athletic. Adding another new defensive scheme, signing FAs and drafting players, that actually plays to the strengths of these youth and their skill sets.
Something I heard about CJ Stroud that stood out to me and exactly the type of QB I want us to get next year. CJ is a QB that throws WRs open. Instead of having to only throw to a guy who is open, throw them into openings and into space. That is how I would describe Mahomes, Burrows, and Rodgers. There are some up and coming future superstars that are showing this too.
Cousins is not nor has he ever been that guy. Minus one great throw to Thielen I think 2 years ago, he is a safe thrower. Great thrower of the ball, but not a guy who is willing to get outside of his comfort zone. He hasn't got a gunslinger mentality.
CharVike
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3631
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:28 pm
x 756

Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by CharVike »

IIsweet wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 7:40 am Completely agree with you StanM. It is going to take some time to completely make this team a SB contender.
They are getting younger and more athletic. Adding another new defensive scheme, signing FAs and drafting players, that actually plays to the strengths of these youth and their skill sets.
Something I heard about CJ Stroud that stood out to me and exactly the type of QB I want us to get next year. CJ is a QB that throws WRs open. Instead of having to only throw to a guy who is open, throw them into openings and into space. That is how I would describe Mahomes, Burrows, and Rodgers. There are some up and coming future superstars that are showing this too.
Cousins is not nor has he ever been that guy. Minus one great throw to Thielen I think 2 years ago, he is a safe thrower. Great thrower of the ball, but not a guy who is willing to get outside of his comfort zone. He hasn't got a gunslinger mentality.
How about the throw to JJ against the Bills. I'm sure there are more. Throwing a guy open is a little over the top. It has no meaning or measurement. A hail mary can be called throwing a guy open. Many things go into completing a pass. If Rodgers can throw guys open he wouldn't have struggled last year with the young guys. Just throw them open. It don't work that way IMO. I do like CJ Stroud. But I also liked Lock and Jones. So my opinion isn't very sound.
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4214
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 754

Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by VikingsVictorious »

IIsweet wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 7:40 am Completely agree with you StanM. It is going to take some time to completely make this team a SB contender.
They are getting younger and more athletic. Adding another new defensive scheme, signing FAs and drafting players, that actually plays to the strengths of these youth and their skill sets.
Something I heard about CJ Stroud that stood out to me and exactly the type of QB I want us to get next year. CJ is a QB that throws WRs open. Instead of having to only throw to a guy who is open, throw them into openings and into space. That is how I would describe Mahomes, Burrows, and Rodgers. There are some up and coming future superstars that are showing this too.
Cousins is not nor has he ever been that guy. Minus one great throw to Thielen I think 2 years ago, he is a safe thrower. Great thrower of the ball, but not a guy who is willing to get outside of his comfort zone. He hasn't got a gunslinger mentality.
Cousins is more safe than some and less safe than others. It's not a good thing or a bad thing. It's just a thing. Tom Brady might be the safest QB to ever play the game. Not a gunslinger at all and possibly the best to ever play the game.
JJBreaksRecords
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 523
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:22 pm
x 73

Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by JJBreaksRecords »

Favre was the perfect example of a gunslinger. He liked to take chances, had a great arm, and loved throwing INT's. One that may have cost us the NFC championship. But man, was he fun to watch. Ive been lulled into sleep with Cousins, kinda like the past 2 years of KAM drafting. I guess we got TJ and Addison out of it (would have rather had a burner though myself). :govikes:
CharVike
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3631
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:28 pm
x 756

Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by CharVike »

JJBreaksRecords wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 12:42 pm Favre was the perfect example of a gunslinger. He liked to take chances, had a great arm, and loved throwing INT's. One that may have cost us the NFC championship. But man, was he fun to watch. Ive been lulled into sleep with Cousins, kinda like the past 2 years of KAM drafting. I guess we got TJ and Addison out of it (would have rather had a burner though myself). :govikes:
I agree with this and was going to post it. He had some real bad playoff games. That 2009 season was great. That team had talent and Farve pulled it together. Just chocked at the end.
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9783
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 1869

Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

CharVike wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 8:44 am
IIsweet wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 7:40 am Completely agree with you StanM. It is going to take some time to completely make this team a SB contender.
They are getting younger and more athletic. Adding another new defensive scheme, signing FAs and drafting players, that actually plays to the strengths of these youth and their skill sets.
Something I heard about CJ Stroud that stood out to me and exactly the type of QB I want us to get next year. CJ is a QB that throws WRs open. Instead of having to only throw to a guy who is open, throw them into openings and into space. That is how I would describe Mahomes, Burrows, and Rodgers. There are some up and coming future superstars that are showing this too.
Cousins is not nor has he ever been that guy. Minus one great throw to Thielen I think 2 years ago, he is a safe thrower. Great thrower of the ball, but not a guy who is willing to get outside of his comfort zone. He hasn't got a gunslinger mentality.
How about the throw to JJ against the Bills. I'm sure there are more. Throwing a guy open is a little over the top. It has no meaning or measurement. A hail mary can be called throwing a guy open. Many things go into completing a pass. If Rodgers can throw guys open he wouldn't have struggled last year with the young guys. Just throw them open. It don't work that way IMO. I do like CJ Stroud. But I also liked Lock and Jones. So my opinion isn't very sound.
Over the top?

Spend 5 minutes to watch this.

Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.
User avatar
IIsweet
Pro Bowl Elite Player
Posts: 921
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:02 pm
x 170

Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by IIsweet »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 9:35 am
CharVike wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 8:44 am
How about the throw to JJ against the Bills. I'm sure there are more. Throwing a guy open is a little over the top. It has no meaning or measurement. A hail mary can be called throwing a guy open. Many things go into completing a pass. If Rodgers can throw guys open he wouldn't have struggled last year with the young guys. Just throw them open. It don't work that way IMO. I do like CJ Stroud. But I also liked Lock and Jones. So my opinion isn't very sound.
Over the top?

Spend 5 minutes to watch this.

That was a perfect video for what I was saying. In watching each of the 3 throws, in particular the 2nd, all I could think of was our last play of the season. On this play, Cousins HAD TO attempt to throw somebody open, but opted for a checkdown, and honestly, IMO, was such a poor placed pass that TJ had no chance of even making a play up field.
In response to "the throw" against Buffalo... I will never think of it as "the throw", but more as "THE CATCH"... That to me was a desperation type throw, not throwing someone open. The video gives great context for the term of throwing someone open. How many times have we complained over the years of, If Kirk would just have thrown it to a spot and given the WR a chance....

Hoping for a great '23 season. I feel that we are far from finished this offseason. I expect us to get to June 1st, release or trade some players, and then sign JJ and TJ with long extensions.
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4214
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 754

Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by VikingsVictorious »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 9:35 am
CharVike wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 8:44 am
How about the throw to JJ against the Bills. I'm sure there are more. Throwing a guy open is a little over the top. It has no meaning or measurement. A hail mary can be called throwing a guy open. Many things go into completing a pass. If Rodgers can throw guys open he wouldn't have struggled last year with the young guys. Just throw them open. It don't work that way IMO. I do like CJ Stroud. But I also liked Lock and Jones. So my opinion isn't very sound.
Over the top?

Spend 5 minutes to watch this.

Any QB who is good enough to make it to the NFL has some ability to throw the receiver open. Kirk Cousins very much included. Are some better at it than others? Of course.
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4214
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 754

Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by VikingsVictorious »

IIsweet wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 10:49 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 9:35 am
Over the top?

Spend 5 minutes to watch this.

That was a perfect video for what I was saying. In watching each of the 3 throws, in particular the 2nd, all I could think of was our last play of the season. On this play, Cousins HAD TO attempt to throw somebody open, but opted for a checkdown, and honestly, IMO, was such a poor placed pass that TJ had no chance of even making a play up field.
In response to "the throw" against Buffalo... I will never think of it as "the throw", but more as "THE CATCH"... That to me was a desperation type throw, not throwing someone open. The video gives great context for the term of throwing someone open. How many times have we complained over the years of, If Kirk would just have thrown it to a spot and given the WR a chance....

Hoping for a great '23 season. I feel that we are far from finished this offseason. I expect us to get to June 1st, release or trade some players, and then sign JJ and TJ with long extensions.
I've seen Kirk make the throw to lead the receiver to open ground about 10-20 times a game ever since he arrived here. I can't imagine where you get this idea that he doesn't do it.
CharVike
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3631
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:28 pm
x 756

Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by CharVike »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 9:35 am
CharVike wrote: Mon May 01, 2023 8:44 am
How about the throw to JJ against the Bills. I'm sure there are more. Throwing a guy open is a little over the top. It has no meaning or measurement. A hail mary can be called throwing a guy open. Many things go into completing a pass. If Rodgers can throw guys open he wouldn't have struggled last year with the young guys. Just throw them open. It don't work that way IMO. I do like CJ Stroud. But I also liked Lock and Jones. So my opinion isn't very sound.
Over the top?

Spend 5 minutes to watch this.

I watched it. I wouldn't use Dak Prescott as an example. He's still trying to understand what to do with the ball after the play. Should go to the referee but under the heat of the battle it's hard to remember that.
CharVike
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3631
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:28 pm
x 756

Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by CharVike »

IIsweet wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 10:49 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 9:35 am
Over the top?

Spend 5 minutes to watch this.

That was a perfect video for what I was saying. In watching each of the 3 throws, in particular the 2nd, all I could think of was our last play of the season. On this play, Cousins HAD TO attempt to throw somebody open, but opted for a checkdown, and honestly, IMO, was such a poor placed pass that TJ had no chance of even making a play up field.
In response to "the throw" against Buffalo... I will never think of it as "the throw", but more as "THE CATCH"... That to me was a desperation type throw, not throwing someone open. The video gives great context for the term of throwing someone open. How many times have we complained over the years of, If Kirk would just have thrown it to a spot and given the WR a chance....

Hoping for a great '23 season. I feel that we are far from finished this offseason. I expect us to get to June 1st, release or trade some players, and then sign JJ and TJ with long extensions.
Was it the throw or the catch. If the ball wasn't there the catch never happens. If JJ sucks the catch also doesn't happen no matter were the ball was thrown. I'll give them both credit. But in the end it was lucky on both parts but it was made. Throwing Theilen open is almost impossible at this stage of his career. He can't separate. What Cousins did there was horrible. He should have just thrown to JJ from the start. That was the only chance he had. Once he came off going through the tree it became almost impossible. There was zero chance with the dump off unless TJ broke a tackle.
CharVike
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3631
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:28 pm
x 756

Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by CharVike »

IIsweet wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 10:49 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 9:35 am
Over the top?

Spend 5 minutes to watch this.

That was a perfect video for what I was saying. In watching each of the 3 throws, in particular the 2nd, all I could think of was our last play of the season. On this play, Cousins HAD TO attempt to throw somebody open, but opted for a checkdown, and honestly, IMO, was such a poor placed pass that TJ had no chance of even making a play up field.
In response to "the throw" against Buffalo... I will never think of it as "the throw", but more as "THE CATCH"... That to me was a desperation type throw, not throwing someone open. The video gives great context for the term of throwing someone open. How many times have we complained over the years of, If Kirk would just have thrown it to a spot and given the WR a chance....

Hoping for a great '23 season. I feel that we are far from finished this offseason. I expect us to get to June 1st, release or trade some players, and then sign JJ and TJ with long extensions.
Kirk has shown to throw the long ball. Diggs avg 17.9 yards per catch in 2019. Zim wanted the short BS throws to help his D rest and burn the clock. Diggs said I want out after his best season. He never before or after Kirk came close to 17 YPC. Kirk's the dump off guy? Makes sense.
https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/ste ... hreat-2019
Stefon Diggs Has Become One of the NFL's Most Lethal Deep Threats in 2019
The deep ball has become a major part of Diggs's game this season.
Kirk Cousins put the ball where only Diggs could get it, and the Vikings' star receiver made an incredible catch before tumbling out of bounds at the three-yard line. The end result was a 44-yard gain that set up a Dalvin Cook touchdown right before halftime. It was the Vikings' biggest offensive play in their 20-7 win over the Lions last Sunday.
Looks like another throw where only the WR could get it. But he's only done it once in his life.
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9783
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 1869

Re: Live Draft Chat

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

CharVike wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 12:10 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 9:35 am
Over the top?

Spend 5 minutes to watch this.

I watched it. I wouldn't use Dak Prescott as an example. He's still trying to understand what to do with the ball after the play. Should go to the referee but under the heat of the battle it's hard to remember that.
I don’t understand you sometimes.

The point isn’t Dak Prescott. Who cares WHO the quarterback is? The video is about the concept of throwing guys open, which you said is an “over the top” concept. Here is a Hall-Of-Fame quarterback, one of the smartest QBs to ever play the game, explaining the concept, and your takeaway is “I wouldn’t use Dak Prescott as an example”?

Be better, man.
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.