Kirk Cousins wanted three years, Vikings turned him down

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VikingsVictorious
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Re: Kirk Cousins wanted three years, Vikings turned him down

Post by VikingsVictorious »

VikingLord wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:27 pm
CharVike wrote: Mon Apr 03, 2023 8:23 pm
He isn't a good QB. But that opening game against us the dude had 379 total yards. 301 passing and 78 rushing on 17 carries. That's a true dual threat. But the wheels fell off against the Eagles only 159 total yards. That's pathetic. But to lay it all at his feet is also wrong. There OL is about like ours. Useless against the better defenses. That never helps a QB. Since Jones entered the league his TD passes are 24, 11, 10 and 15. If he hit the FA market would teams be chasing him? I doubt it. The Giants are trying to save face and there is nothing available for an alternative solution.
The main difference between the Eagles D and the Vikings D as it related to Daniel Jones was the Eagles D didn't let him run when he left the pocket. Donatell did nothing to adjust to that "dual threat" from Jones between the first and second times the two teams played each other last year. As a result, Jones was able to keep drives alive against the Vikings using his legs, while the Eagles forced him to use his arm. The difference in the two results was as stark as the stats you cited indicate.

IMHO, Jones is unlikely to ever become a great pro QB. After several years in the league he's failed to evolve. He's still primarily a first read QB who runs if flushed from the pocket. Generally speaking, those types of QBs are easier to defend even if they have strong arms and are fairly accurate. The fact that Donatell made him look good twice doesn't change that from my perspective.

On the bright side, Jones isn't going to get the Giants anywhere near a Superbowl appearance in the future either. He's as much a high-priced dead ender at the position as Cousins.
Cousins is 10X the QB that Jones is.
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Re: Kirk Cousins wanted three years, Vikings turned him down

Post by VikingLord »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 11:00 am
VikingLord wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:27 pm

The main difference between the Eagles D and the Vikings D as it related to Daniel Jones was the Eagles D didn't let him run when he left the pocket. Donatell did nothing to adjust to that "dual threat" from Jones between the first and second times the two teams played each other last year. As a result, Jones was able to keep drives alive against the Vikings using his legs, while the Eagles forced him to use his arm. The difference in the two results was as stark as the stats you cited indicate.

IMHO, Jones is unlikely to ever become a great pro QB. After several years in the league he's failed to evolve. He's still primarily a first read QB who runs if flushed from the pocket. Generally speaking, those types of QBs are easier to defend even if they have strong arms and are fairly accurate. The fact that Donatell made him look good twice doesn't change that from my perspective.

On the bright side, Jones isn't going to get the Giants anywhere near a Superbowl appearance in the future either. He's as much a high-priced dead ender at the position as Cousins.
Cousins is 10X the QB that Jones is.
That's a matter of opinion, but the fact is both have won a single playoff game over the last five years and both have fatal flaws that good defenses have proven capable of exploiting. Jones is younger and might still learn some new tricks, while Cousins is what he is at this point.
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Re: Kirk Cousins wanted three years, Vikings turned him down

Post by StumpHunter »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 11:00 am
VikingLord wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:27 pm

The main difference between the Eagles D and the Vikings D as it related to Daniel Jones was the Eagles D didn't let him run when he left the pocket. Donatell did nothing to adjust to that "dual threat" from Jones between the first and second times the two teams played each other last year. As a result, Jones was able to keep drives alive against the Vikings using his legs, while the Eagles forced him to use his arm. The difference in the two results was as stark as the stats you cited indicate.

IMHO, Jones is unlikely to ever become a great pro QB. After several years in the league he's failed to evolve. He's still primarily a first read QB who runs if flushed from the pocket. Generally speaking, those types of QBs are easier to defend even if they have strong arms and are fairly accurate. The fact that Donatell made him look good twice doesn't change that from my perspective.

On the bright side, Jones isn't going to get the Giants anywhere near a Superbowl appearance in the future either. He's as much a high-priced dead ender at the position as Cousins.
Cousins is 10X the QB that Jones is.
That is a bit extreme. Up until 2022 Cousins was significantly better than Jones for sure, but in 2022 most advanced metrics that measure QB impact on the offense, had Jones as the better QB.
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Re: Kirk Cousins wanted three years, Vikings turned him down

Post by CharVike »

StumpHunter wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 11:21 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 11:00 am
Cousins is 10X the QB that Jones is.
That is a bit extreme. Up until 2022 Cousins was significantly better than Jones for sure, but in 2022 most advanced metrics that measure QB impact on the offense, had Jones as the better QB.
There are always advanced something to show an impact. Jones had a career year with only 15 TD passes. That's sucks IMO. Yes he ran for 7 but that was more than he had the previous 3 years combined. The only thing Cousins and Jones have in common is they both play for teams that have garbage on the OL and neither team has a plan to fix it. They don't know how. There is no advanced metrics for that. Plus Cousins won 13 with nothing on defense. It would be interesting to see the avg QB winning pct with a garbage D. I really don't know how less total TDs and a weaker winning pct makes a QB better. Even head to head comp they were even.
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Re: Kirk Cousins wanted three years, Vikings turned him down

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CharVike wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 12:07 pm
StumpHunter wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 11:21 am
That is a bit extreme. Up until 2022 Cousins was significantly better than Jones for sure, but in 2022 most advanced metrics that measure QB impact on the offense, had Jones as the better QB.
There are always advanced something to show an impact. Jones had a career year with only 15 TD passes. That's sucks IMO. Yes he ran for 7 but that was more than he had the previous 3 years combined. The only thing Cousins and Jones have in common is they both play for teams that have garbage on the OL and neither team has a plan to fix it. They don't know how. There is no advanced metrics for that. Plus Cousins won 13 with nothing on defense. It would be interesting to see the avg QB winning pct with a garbage D. I really don't know how less total TDs and a weaker winning pct makes a QB better. Even head to head comp they were even.
I wonder what the Vikings record would have been if Slayton was our #1 WR instead of JJ? 4 wins maybe?
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Re: Kirk Cousins wanted three years, Vikings turned him down

Post by CharVike »

StumpHunter wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 8:35 am
CharVike wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 12:07 pm
There are always advanced something to show an impact. Jones had a career year with only 15 TD passes. That's sucks IMO. Yes he ran for 7 but that was more than he had the previous 3 years combined. The only thing Cousins and Jones have in common is they both play for teams that have garbage on the OL and neither team has a plan to fix it. They don't know how. There is no advanced metrics for that. Plus Cousins won 13 with nothing on defense. It would be interesting to see the avg QB winning pct with a garbage D. I really don't know how less total TDs and a weaker winning pct makes a QB better. Even head to head comp they were even.
I wonder what the Vikings record would have been if Slayton was our #1 WR instead of JJ? 4 wins maybe?
Wondering don't explain anything. I have no idea what it would be. Maybe we go undefeated. Maybe we don't win a game. If our D held Jones and that offensive powerhouse he runs down like Dallas did the next week we win that playoff game easily. People like to pin the QB with everything. Here's a good one. The Bears are the last NFC North team to make a Super Bowl in 2006. Rex Grossman was the leader and threw 22 TDs and 20 Ints. That is horrible. But the Bears had a very good D that played great in the playoffs and their special teams were special. Hester could return kicks for TDs with the best of them. See it always takes the entire team. Rex Grossman. I forgot the guy even played in the NFL. My no look guess would have been Rodgers and the Packers. The NFC North as a whole don't go to the Super Bowl very often. Even with a future HOF QB in it.
I made a mistake it was Rodgers in 2011. My bad. But still Grossman.
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Re: Kirk Cousins wanted three years, Vikings turned him down

Post by StumpHunter »

CharVike wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 5:30 pm
StumpHunter wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 8:35 am
I wonder what the Vikings record would have been if Slayton was our #1 WR instead of JJ? 4 wins maybe?
Wondering don't explain anything. I have no idea what it would be. Maybe we go undefeated. Maybe we don't win a game. If our D held Jones and that offensive powerhouse he runs down like Dallas did the next week we win that playoff game easily. People like to pin the QB with everything. Here's a good one. The Bears are the last NFC North team to make a Super Bowl in 2006. Rex Grossman was the leader and threw 22 TDs and 20 Ints. That is horrible. But the Bears had a very good D that played great in the playoffs and their special teams were special. Hester could return kicks for TDs with the best of them. See it always takes the entire team. Rex Grossman. I forgot the guy even played in the NFL. My no look guess would have been Rodgers and the Packers. The NFC North as a whole don't go to the Super Bowl very often. Even with a future HOF QB in it.
I made a mistake it was Rodgers in 2011. My bad. But still Grossman.
Dallas' D stopped the Giants in the playoffs? When?
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Re: Kirk Cousins wanted three years, Vikings turned him down

Post by CharVike »

StumpHunter wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:29 am
CharVike wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 5:30 pm
Wondering don't explain anything. I have no idea what it would be. Maybe we go undefeated. Maybe we don't win a game. If our D held Jones and that offensive powerhouse he runs down like Dallas did the next week we win that playoff game easily. People like to pin the QB with everything. Here's a good one. The Bears are the last NFC North team to make a Super Bowl in 2006. Rex Grossman was the leader and threw 22 TDs and 20 Ints. That is horrible. But the Bears had a very good D that played great in the playoffs and their special teams were special. Hester could return kicks for TDs with the best of them. See it always takes the entire team. Rex Grossman. I forgot the guy even played in the NFL. My no look guess would have been Rodgers and the Packers. The NFC North as a whole don't go to the Super Bowl very often. Even with a future HOF QB in it.
I made a mistake it was Rodgers in 2011. My bad. But still Grossman.
Dallas' D stopped the Giants in the playoffs? When?
Eagles. For some reason I think Dallas was in the Super Bowl. Maybe my old age or the Dallas hype and winner Prescott had me confused. The Giants put 7 on the board in the Eagle playoff game. Some will give Hurts all the credit for that. The Giant offense blows and we couldn't even slow them down. The Eagles make Super Bowls with different types of QB. From worthless bums, Wentz and Foles to a dual threat super star who was a little limited because of an injury. I bet the core team is very solid.
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Re: Kirk Cousins wanted three years, Vikings turned him down

Post by VikingsVictorious »

VikingLord wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 11:20 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 11:00 am
Cousins is 10X the QB that Jones is.
That's a matter of opinion, but the fact is both have won a single playoff game over the last five years and both have fatal flaws that good defenses have proven capable of exploiting. Jones is younger and might still learn some new tricks, while Cousins is what he is at this point.
Which is 10X the QB that Jones is.
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Re: Kirk Cousins wanted three years, Vikings turned him down

Post by VikingsVictorious »

CharVike wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 12:07 pm
StumpHunter wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 11:21 am
That is a bit extreme. Up until 2022 Cousins was significantly better than Jones for sure, but in 2022 most advanced metrics that measure QB impact on the offense, had Jones as the better QB.
There are always advanced something to show an impact. Jones had a career year with only 15 TD passes. That's sucks IMO. Yes he ran for 7 but that was more than he had the previous 3 years combined. The only thing Cousins and Jones have in common is they both play for teams that have garbage on the OL and neither team has a plan to fix it. They don't know how. There is no advanced metrics for that. Plus Cousins won 13 with nothing on defense. It would be interesting to see the avg QB winning pct with a garbage D. I really don't know how less total TDs and a weaker winning pct makes a QB better. Even head to head comp they were even.
And you can always count on Stump to dig deeeeep and find them.
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Re: Kirk Cousins wanted three years, Vikings turned him down

Post by CharVike »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 12:17 pm
CharVike wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 12:07 pm
There are always advanced something to show an impact. Jones had a career year with only 15 TD passes. That's sucks IMO. Yes he ran for 7 but that was more than he had the previous 3 years combined. The only thing Cousins and Jones have in common is they both play for teams that have garbage on the OL and neither team has a plan to fix it. They don't know how. There is no advanced metrics for that. Plus Cousins won 13 with nothing on defense. It would be interesting to see the avg QB winning pct with a garbage D. I really don't know how less total TDs and a weaker winning pct makes a QB better. Even head to head comp they were even.
And you can always count on Stump to dig deeeeep and find them.
He's a Kirk hater. That's ok we all have opinions. I hate having a garbage OL. It's been decades now. Plus this crap on D year after year. Even Zims no 1 D folded in the playoffs. That was before Kirk. Case was thrown away instead of fixing the real problem. Now it's back on the QB search. Our GM can't pick a G. It will be impossible for him to find a QB.
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Re: Kirk Cousins wanted three years, Vikings turned him down

Post by StumpHunter »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 12:17 pm
CharVike wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 12:07 pm
There are always advanced something to show an impact. Jones had a career year with only 15 TD passes. That's sucks IMO. Yes he ran for 7 but that was more than he had the previous 3 years combined. The only thing Cousins and Jones have in common is they both play for teams that have garbage on the OL and neither team has a plan to fix it. They don't know how. There is no advanced metrics for that. Plus Cousins won 13 with nothing on defense. It would be interesting to see the avg QB winning pct with a garbage D. I really don't know how less total TDs and a weaker winning pct makes a QB better. Even head to head comp they were even.
And you can always count on Stump to dig deeeeep and find them.
Still living rent free I see.
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Re: Kirk Cousins wanted three years, Vikings turned him down

Post by VikingsVictorious »

I haven't watched one second of Quarterback yet. I don't go looking for Kirk Cousins stuff on YouTube or anywhere else, but I stumbled upon this link and thought Kirk gives amazing interviews and I don't get where all the personal stuff against him comes from. If you're interested give it a listen.
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Re: Kirk Cousins wanted three years, Vikings turned him down

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VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 6:46 pm I haven't watched one second of Quarterback yet. I don't go looking for Kirk Cousins stuff on YouTube or anywhere else, but I stumbled upon this link and thought Kirk gives amazing interviews and I don't get where all the personal stuff against him comes from. If you're interested give it a listen.
Seems Kirk has been hated by the media since he stepped into the NFL. For some reason they talk about his improvement which is garbage. He's the same guy which is a good QB and they are hard to find. We played very well as a team. Every level had moments to win games including our ST's. We were overwhelmed a few games and it seemed like we had a few which it was off the cliff right from the start. The 2nd game against the Eagles was just a talent overload and we couldn't dig out. Nothing worked across the board. Looks like this could be Kirk's last year so some fans will get what they wanted. Maybe Hall is the next Purdy. Every team was looking for that. Too late it's already been done. Overall that can't even be called a success yet. Teams have film now.
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Re: Kirk Cousins wanted three years, Vikings turned him down

Post by ERIK the PURPLE »

Mike Florio had an interesting comment about a week ago. The Vikings could package a deal with Justin Jefferson to get the 1st pick in the draft to take Caleb Williams, QB, USC. Arguably the best QB prospect next Draft.

His logic is a superstar QB is more valuable than a superstar WR toward a team’s winning chances.