53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

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StumpHunter
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by StumpHunter »

CharVike wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:04 pm
VikingLord wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:24 pm

I think it means they need a QB on the PS and Mannion is the best of what's left off the waiver wire.

The QB who threw no preseason TDs. No attempts at throws that could have gone for a TD. He didn't throw any INTs either, but that wasn't for a lack of trying as defenders just didn't make the play when he threw it right to them. Strip sacked for a defensive TD. He misread the field every bit as slowly and poorly as Mond, his throws were consistently high and off target, and he just lacked any dynamism at all.

And yet, KAM and KOC apparently are either sticking with him or stuck with him depending on how one wants to look at it. Good thing he's on the PS, but what a crap deal for the fans if it does turn out the Vikings need to go to the well at some point this season. No future there either. PS is ideal for developmental guys who need coaching and time to mature. Mannion isn't getting any better at this point. This is as good as he'll ever be.

I sure hope Cousins does something this year, because if not and the team falls short again, they'll be back at the betting table next offseason trying to figure out what to do at QB.
What is falling short? Never say never but if we face a team like the 49ers who have a dam good front 7 on D I don't think we can hold up with our current OL. The Packers went through it last year with a future HOF QB. It all starts at the LOS.
Tell that to the Bengals who nearly won the SB with one of the worst Olines in football last year.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by JJBreaksRecords »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:56 pm
VikingLord wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:14 pm

Nobody is going to claim Mannion, so it looks like he probably will wind up on the PS.

I have this gut feeling that releasing Mond after just a year with the Vikings is going to come back and bite KAM and KOC at some point. Hope I'm wrong but I think they gave up on him way too quickly.
I have a gut feeling it won't hurt us in the slightest. Time will tell.
I have a feeling you are wrong.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by Texas Vike »

Glad to see WR's Jackson and Chisena come back as well as G Hinton.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by CharVike »

StumpHunter wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:23 pm
CharVike wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:04 pm
What is falling short? Never say never but if we face a team like the 49ers who have a dam good front 7 on D I don't think we can hold up with our current OL. The Packers went through it last year with a future HOF QB. It all starts at the LOS.
Tell that to the Bengals who nearly won the SB with one of the worst Olines in football last year.
We already went through this. Bottom line the Bengals defense played some great ball in the playoffs. The Bengals offense has only managed five touchdowns in three playoff games. That's not very good.
https://stripehype.com/2022/02/02/benga ... -bowl-run/
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

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CharVike wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 6:59 am
StumpHunter wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:23 pm
Tell that to the Bengals who nearly won the SB with one of the worst Olines in football last year.
We already went through this. Bottom line the Bengals defense played some great ball in the playoffs. The Bengals offense has only managed five touchdowns in three playoff games. That's not very good.
https://stripehype.com/2022/02/02/benga ... -bowl-run/
They averaged 23 PPG in the playoffs while the Rams offense with the best line in the NFL averaged 25. A single TD difference in 4 games between them and the world champs and you think you have a point?
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by StumpHunter »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:57 pm
Texas Vike wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:49 pm Guys: no need to argue over 'what ifs" at this point.

Mond is w/ Cleveland and Mannion signed with the Seahawks.
I heard Seattle wanted him for their PS. I wonder if the Vikings really wanted him or Mannion just liked Seattle more.
Mannion was signed to the worst QB room in the NFL's PS, Mond had claims by Philly and Cleveland to put him on their roster. Sucks for Mond that Cleveland had priority because he is pretty much a lock to lose his spot week 12 when Watson comes back, but then again he has a better chance of actually playing for Cleveland before that than he would have gotten in Philly.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by CharVike »

StumpHunter wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 7:48 am
CharVike wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 6:59 am
We already went through this. Bottom line the Bengals defense played some great ball in the playoffs. The Bengals offense has only managed five touchdowns in three playoff games. That's not very good.
https://stripehype.com/2022/02/02/benga ... -bowl-run/
They averaged 23 PPG in the playoffs while the Rams offense with the best line in the NFL averaged 25. A single TD difference in 4 games between them and the world champs and you think you have a point?
No the world champ/best OL cleared it up.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by CharVike »

Mannion to Seattle PS.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by StumpHunter »

CharVike wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 9:17 am
StumpHunter wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 7:48 am

They averaged 23 PPG in the playoffs while the Rams offense with the best line in the NFL averaged 25. A single TD difference in 4 games between them and the world champs and you think you have a point?
No the world champ/best OL cleared it up.
They had the best receivers, best secondary and best Dline too. The most talented team in the past decade and they barely beat a team with one of the worst Olines in football.

The Rams were the first team since 2006 when PFF started grading Olines to win it all with the best Oline in the NFL. The average win % for a team in a game where their Oline grades in the top 33% is .570. For coverage it is .796, receiving .781, and pass rush .709.

The team with the best pass blocking wins 60% of the time, run blocking it is 56% of the time. The best passer wins 75% of the time, best receivers the same, coverage 75% and pass rush 63%. The team that passes the best or defends the pass the best wins a lot more than the team that rushes the passer or blocks the best.

"It all starts with the Oline" is only true in that the center always starts with the ball. Otherwise winning starts with the best overall team then the best QB and then goes from there.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by CharVike »

StumpHunter wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 9:48 am
CharVike wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 9:17 am
No the world champ/best OL cleared it up.
They had the best receivers, best secondary and best Dline too. The most talented team in the past decade and they barely beat a team with one of the worst Olines in football.

The Rams were the first team since 2006 when PFF started grading Olines to win it all with the best Oline in the NFL. The average win % for a team in a game where their Oline grades in the top 33% is .570. For coverage it is .796, receiving .781, and pass rush .709.

The team with the best pass blocking wins 60% of the time, run blocking it is 56% of the time. The best passer wins 75% of the time, best receivers the same, coverage 75% and pass rush 63%. The team that passes the best or defends the pass the best wins a lot more than the team that rushes the passer or blocks the best.

"It all starts with the Oline" is only true in that the center always starts with the ball. Otherwise winning starts with the best overall team then the best QB and then goes from there.
If you can't block good luck beating a good D front. You dismiss the OL as an afterthought. Everything begins at the point. If we do meet the 49ers in the playoffs I guarantee the coaching staff will be looking at ways to control Bosa and the rest of that group. I wonder why? Well they need to be blocked or you're more than likely done. The Packers found that out last year the hard way.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by VikingsVictorious »

CharVike wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 10:54 am
StumpHunter wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 9:48 am
They had the best receivers, best secondary and best Dline too. The most talented team in the past decade and they barely beat a team with one of the worst Olines in football.

The Rams were the first team since 2006 when PFF started grading Olines to win it all with the best Oline in the NFL. The average win % for a team in a game where their Oline grades in the top 33% is .570. For coverage it is .796, receiving .781, and pass rush .709.

The team with the best pass blocking wins 60% of the time, run blocking it is 56% of the time. The best passer wins 75% of the time, best receivers the same, coverage 75% and pass rush 63%. The team that passes the best or defends the pass the best wins a lot more than the team that rushes the passer or blocks the best.

"It all starts with the Oline" is only true in that the center always starts with the ball. Otherwise winning starts with the best overall team then the best QB and then goes from there.
If you can't block good luck beating a good D front. You dismiss the OL as an afterthought. Everything begins at the point. If we do meet the 49ers in the playoffs I guarantee the coaching staff will be looking at ways to control Bosa and the rest of that group. I wonder why? Well they need to be blocked or you're more than likely done. The Packers found that out last year the hard way.
Stump dug deeeeeep for some stats to try to make it seem like line play isn't the most important thing. He's wrong. It is the most important thing.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by JJBreaksRecords »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 10:59 am
CharVike wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 10:54 am
If you can't block good luck beating a good D front. You dismiss the OL as an afterthought. Everything begins at the point. If we do meet the 49ers in the playoffs I guarantee the coaching staff will be looking at ways to control Bosa and the rest of that group. I wonder why? Well they need to be blocked or you're more than likely done. The Packers found that out last year the hard way.
Stump dug deeeeeep for some stats to try to make it seem like line play isn't the most important thing. He's wrong. It is the most important thing.
Still a hard on for stump. Why? And digging deep is what you and others do here, or just dismiss stats for emotions.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by CharVike »

JJBreaksRecords wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 11:12 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 10:59 am
Stump dug deeeeeep for some stats to try to make it seem like line play isn't the most important thing. He's wrong. It is the most important thing.
Still a hard on for stump. Why? And digging deep is what you and others do here, or just dismiss stats for emotions.
It has nothing to do with a hard on. It has to do with the fundamentals of football. Andy Reid who I would consider a very good coach rebuilt his entire OL in one sweep. Why would that idiot care about the LOS scrimmage play? He didn't plug bums in. He didn't get a stiff like Jesse Davis. He got a top ranked OT from the Ravens to start it off.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

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VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 10:59 am
CharVike wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 10:54 am
If you can't block good luck beating a good D front. You dismiss the OL as an afterthought. Everything begins at the point. If we do meet the 49ers in the playoffs I guarantee the coaching staff will be looking at ways to control Bosa and the rest of that group. I wonder why? Well they need to be blocked or you're more than likely done. The Packers found that out last year the hard way.
Stump dug deeeeeep for some stats to try to make it seem like line play isn't the most important thing. He's wrong. It is the most important thing.
Prove it. I gave some numbers showing this to be untrue, now you provide some statistical evidence that having the best Oline leads to more wins than having the best QB, WRs or secondary.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by StumpHunter »

CharVike wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:09 pm
JJBreaksRecords wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 11:12 am

Still a hard on for stump. Why? And digging deep is what you and others do here, or just dismiss stats for emotions.
It has nothing to do with a hard on. It has to do with the fundamentals of football. Andy Reid who I would consider a very good coach rebuilt his entire OL in one sweep. Why would that idiot care about the LOS scrimmage play? He didn't plug bums in. He didn't get a stiff like Jesse Davis. He got a top ranked OT from the Ravens to start it off.
I did post a stat that said having a better Oline does help you win, so this does fall in line with that. Reid had nothing at either tackle spot so he traded for the best option because winning with a bad Oline isn't as easy as winning with a good one. It just is 5th on the list of important things. Ahead of having a great kicker or STs in general, but not even close to as important as having a great QB, WR or secondary.

The stats back this up and it isn't even really close.