53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

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StumpHunter
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

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CharVike wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:34 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:52 pm
It all starts at the lines as Char has stated and it isn't really close. If the QB gets knocked down before he can throw a pass it doesn't matter how good he or the WRs are. If the RB is being tackled as he is receiving the hand off it doesn't matter how good he is. Stump can post stats about how often a team wins under x-y-z circumstances, but those are completely irrelevant if the outcomes stated above happen. It starts with the lines and if they don't do their job nobody else can do their job. Stump will ignore this simple truth because he wants to win something.
We sacked the great Stafford 10 times once and he didn't do much. The WR or RB or whatever didn't matter. Every CB I ever heard always said their job is easier when pressure is applied. No CB can hold coverage forever. Gibbs had a great OL. They took games over. "Gibbs knew exactly the type of players he wanted, and he understood that if you win in the trenches, you’ll find success no matter who is playing quarterback." By Lucas Ellinas November 7, 2021. Of course he'll say Gibbs has no idea what he's talking about. Our 1st game against the Bengals our OL gave that game away with many holding calls and no blocking as Cook avg 3 yards a carry for 60 yards which sucks. The worst part is we have the same problem this year. Guys learning on the job and nothing at center. That won't work. Good luck against top defensive fronts.
The Oline does help a team win. Not as much as QBs, WRs or the secondary per the only actual statistical evidence provided in this discussion. None of what you wrote even comes close to disproving that.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

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CharVike wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:34 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:52 pm
It all starts at the lines as Char has stated and it isn't really close. If the QB gets knocked down before he can throw a pass it doesn't matter how good he or the WRs are. If the RB is being tackled as he is receiving the hand off it doesn't matter how good he is. Stump can post stats about how often a team wins under x-y-z circumstances, but those are completely irrelevant if the outcomes stated above happen. It starts with the lines and if they don't do their job nobody else can do their job. Stump will ignore this simple truth because he wants to win something.
We sacked the great Stafford 10 times once and he didn't do much. The WR or RB or whatever didn't matter. Every CB I ever heard always said their job is easier when pressure is applied. No CB can hold coverage forever. Gibbs had a great OL. They took games over. "Gibbs knew exactly the type of players he wanted, and he understood that if you win in the trenches, you’ll find success no matter who is playing quarterback." By Lucas Ellinas November 7, 2021. Of course he'll say Gibbs has no idea what he's talking about. Our 1st game against the Bengals our OL gave that game away with many holding calls and no blocking as Cook avg 3 yards a carry for 60 yards which sucks. The worst part is we have the same problem this year. Guys learning on the job and nothing at center. That won't work. Good luck against top defensive fronts.
Stump will never grasp the concept that it all starts at the lines. They have to do their job first or nobody else can do theirs. Maybe "after" the line does their job then the QB and other people can make a bigger impact than the line, but the line has to get the job done first.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

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VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 5:50 pm
CharVike wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:34 am
We sacked the great Stafford 10 times once and he didn't do much. The WR or RB or whatever didn't matter. Every CB I ever heard always said their job is easier when pressure is applied. No CB can hold coverage forever. Gibbs had a great OL. They took games over. "Gibbs knew exactly the type of players he wanted, and he understood that if you win in the trenches, you’ll find success no matter who is playing quarterback." By Lucas Ellinas November 7, 2021. Of course he'll say Gibbs has no idea what he's talking about. Our 1st game against the Bengals our OL gave that game away with many holding calls and no blocking as Cook avg 3 yards a carry for 60 yards which sucks. The worst part is we have the same problem this year. Guys learning on the job and nothing at center. That won't work. Good luck against top defensive fronts.
Stump will never grasp the concept that it all starts at the lines. They have to do their job first or nobody else can do theirs. Maybe "after" the line does their job then the QB and other people can make a bigger impact than the line, but the line has to get the job done first.
Gibbs even came up with the H Back to help control the LOS but of course Gibbs knew nothing about the game. When the Steelers dominate the LOS against us in the Super Bowl Tark had a 14.1 rating. Tough to throw the ball when you have no time. Even Foreman couldn't do anything and had 12 carries for 17 yards. He'll say Foreman sucked. He didn't suck the LOS was dominated by the defense. As a team we had 17 yards or 21 carries which is getting destroyed at the point. Can't run if you can't block. It all starts up front.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

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Cut DT TY McGill released from IR with Injury Settlement. They signed CB Duke Shelley to practice squad.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

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VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 5:50 pm
CharVike wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:34 am
We sacked the great Stafford 10 times once and he didn't do much. The WR or RB or whatever didn't matter. Every CB I ever heard always said their job is easier when pressure is applied. No CB can hold coverage forever. Gibbs had a great OL. They took games over. "Gibbs knew exactly the type of players he wanted, and he understood that if you win in the trenches, you’ll find success no matter who is playing quarterback." By Lucas Ellinas November 7, 2021. Of course he'll say Gibbs has no idea what he's talking about. Our 1st game against the Bengals our OL gave that game away with many holding calls and no blocking as Cook avg 3 yards a carry for 60 yards which sucks. The worst part is we have the same problem this year. Guys learning on the job and nothing at center. That won't work. Good luck against top defensive fronts.
Stump will never grasp the concept that it all starts at the lines. They have to do their job first or nobody else can do theirs. Maybe "after" the line does their job then the QB and other people can make a bigger impact than the line, but the line has to get the job done first.
So you are talking the sequential order of things and not the actual import of winning? That seems...pointless, but okay.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

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StumpHunter wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:32 pm
CharVike wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:09 pm
It has nothing to do with a hard on. It has to do with the fundamentals of football. Andy Reid who I would consider a very good coach rebuilt his entire OL in one sweep. Why would that idiot care about the LOS scrimmage play? He didn't plug bums in. He didn't get a stiff like Jesse Davis. He got a top ranked OT from the Ravens to start it off.
I did post a stat that said having a better Oline does help you win, so this does fall in line with that. Reid had nothing at either tackle spot so he traded for the best option because winning with a bad Oline isn't as easy as winning with a good one. It just is 5th on the list of important things. Ahead of having a great kicker or STs in general, but not even close to as important as having a great QB, WR or secondary.

The stats back this up and it isn't even really close.
Stafford got sacked 7 times by the Bills in week 1. The LOS battle was lost and they couldn't move the ball very well. Check down Stafford avg 5.8 an attempt and threw 3 INTs. When you can't block it's over. Everything starts at the LOS.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

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CharVike wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 7:21 am
StumpHunter wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:32 pm
I did post a stat that said having a better Oline does help you win, so this does fall in line with that. Reid had nothing at either tackle spot so he traded for the best option because winning with a bad Oline isn't as easy as winning with a good one. It just is 5th on the list of important things. Ahead of having a great kicker or STs in general, but not even close to as important as having a great QB, WR or secondary.

The stats back this up and it isn't even really close.
Stafford got sacked 7 times by the Bills in week 1. The LOS battle was lost and they couldn't move the ball very well. Check down Stafford avg 5.8 an attempt and threw 3 INTs. When you can't block it's over. Everything starts at the LOS.
Eggzactly.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

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VikingsVictorious wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 10:21 am
CharVike wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 7:21 am
Stafford got sacked 7 times by the Bills in week 1. The LOS battle was lost and they couldn't move the ball very well. Check down Stafford avg 5.8 an attempt and threw 3 INTs. When you can't block it's over. Everything starts at the LOS.
Eggzactly.
Burrow sacked 7 times also today. Lead to 4 INTs with a pick 6 thrown in. They better take blocking seriously or Joe might get knocked out again.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

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CharVike wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 6:56 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 10:21 am
Eggzactly.
Burrow sacked 7 times also today. Lead to 4 INTs with a pick 6 thrown in. They better take blocking seriously or Joe might get knocked out again.
They don't fix that and Burrow will have an unfortunately short career.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

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The vikings line did pretty well in this one. A couple of breakdowns, which were cause for concern. Kirk had one really ill advised throw in one of those circumstances which could have been catastrophic. Got away with that one. At this point, I don't think he is gonna learn to avoid panic in those circumstances, so it's really important to minimize pressure for the vikings, even more so than for some other teams.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

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fiestavike wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:56 am The vikings line did pretty well in this one. A couple of breakdowns, which were cause for concern. Kirk had one really ill advised throw in one of those circumstances which could have been catastrophic. Got away with that one. At this point, I don't think he is gonna learn to avoid panic in those circumstances, so it's really important to minimize pressure for the Vikings, even more so than for some other teams.
Kirk panicking under pressure is a myth. He panics under pressure the same or less than most QBs.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

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VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:38 am
fiestavike wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:56 am The vikings line did pretty well in this one. A couple of breakdowns, which were cause for concern. Kirk had one really ill advised throw in one of those circumstances which could have been catastrophic. Got away with that one. At this point, I don't think he is gonna learn to avoid panic in those circumstances, so it's really important to minimize pressure for the Vikings, even more so than for some other teams.
Kirk panicking under pressure is a myth. He panics under pressure the same or less than most QBs.
Some will never admit that. Rodgers yesterday sucked. He was pressured and sacked. The 2 SB QBs were pressured and sacked which lead to a combined 7 interceptions. Both sucked. That's 3 of the best. If we face a team that gets pressure and sacks on Kirk he will do what they all do. Go backwards. It's been like that forever. That's why teams look for guys to pressure the QB. If it didn't mean anything guys like that would have no value. Look what Hunter is paid. He can get after the QB.
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

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CharVike wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 12:17 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:38 am
Kirk panicking under pressure is a myth. He panics under pressure the same or less than most QBs.
Some will never admit that. Rodgers yesterday sucked. He was pressured and sacked. The 2 SB QBs were pressured and sacked which lead to a combined 7 interceptions. Both sucked. That's 3 of the best. If we face a team that gets pressure and sacks on Kirk he will do what they all do. Go backwards. It's been like that forever. That's why teams look for guys to pressure the QB. If it didn't mean anything guys like that would have no value. Look what Hunter is paid. He can get after the QB.
To clarify, your position is that no QBs respond to pressure better or worse than any others? You believe that Aaron Rodgers and Kirk Cousins react to pressure about on par with one another? You think when plays go off schedule, it wouldn't matter whether Aaron or Kirk were at the QB position?
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

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VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:38 am
fiestavike wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:56 am The vikings line did pretty well in this one. A couple of breakdowns, which were cause for concern. Kirk had one really ill advised throw in one of those circumstances which could have been catastrophic. Got away with that one. At this point, I don't think he is gonna learn to avoid panic in those circumstances, so it's really important to minimize pressure for the Vikings, even more so than for some other teams.
Kirk panicking under pressure is a myth. He panics under pressure the same or less than most QBs.
honestly?
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Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

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fiestavike wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 3:02 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:38 am
Kirk panicking under pressure is a myth. He panics under pressure the same or less than most QBs.
honestly?
Last year was one of his worst seasons in under pressure rankings and he finished 20th. He has had seasons where he's among the very top QBs in the league under pressure. Yes very honestly.