53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

CharVike
Career Elite Player
Posts: 2581
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:28 pm
x 495

Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by CharVike »

StumpHunter wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:32 pm
CharVike wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:09 pm
It has nothing to do with a hard on. It has to do with the fundamentals of football. Andy Reid who I would consider a very good coach rebuilt his entire OL in one sweep. Why would that idiot care about the LOS scrimmage play? He didn't plug bums in. He didn't get a stiff like Jesse Davis. He got a top ranked OT from the Ravens to start it off.
I did post a stat that said having a better Oline does help you win, so this does fall in line with that. Reid had nothing at either tackle spot so he traded for the best option because winning with a bad Oline isn't as easy as winning with a good one. It just is 5th on the list of important things. Ahead of having a great kicker or STs in general, but not even close to as important as having a great QB, WR or secondary.

The stats back this up and it isn't even really close.
You pick one offs for your point. Yes the Bengals made the SB with a junk OL. Other stuff played into that like picking Tannehill off 3 times. Once in the end zone and with the last one giving them the game winning FG. That ended it for Tanne as his replacement was just drafted. If the Bengals keep sticking with that junk OL Burrow will get knocked out again. This time it could be worse than season ending one he got when getting crushed in the pocket. But you and your stats are right the OL don't mean much. Get the best holder it will help more. I'm sure that stat is floating out there also.
StumpHunter
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3557
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:55 am
x 615

Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by StumpHunter »

CharVike wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:52 pm
StumpHunter wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:32 pm
I did post a stat that said having a better Oline does help you win, so this does fall in line with that. Reid had nothing at either tackle spot so he traded for the best option because winning with a bad Oline isn't as easy as winning with a good one. It just is 5th on the list of important things. Ahead of having a great kicker or STs in general, but not even close to as important as having a great QB, WR or secondary.

The stats back this up and it isn't even really close.
You pick one offs for your point. Yes the Bengals made the SB with a junk OL. Other stuff played into that like picking Tannehill off 3 times. Once in the end zone and with the last one giving them the game winning FG. That ended it for Tanne as his replacement was just drafted. If the Bengals keep sticking with that junk OL Burrow will get knocked out again. This time it could be worse than season ending one he got when getting crushed in the pocket. But you and your stats are right the OL don't mean much. Get the best holder it will help more. I'm sure that stat is floating out there also.
The irony of you claiming I pick one offs to prove my point when that is literally all you have done while I have posted stats from EVERY game played over the past 8 seasons. The statistical trend is that while good Oline play does help a team win, it isn't close to being as important as good QB, WR or secondary play.
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3362
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 649

Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by VikingsVictorious »

CharVike wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:52 pm
StumpHunter wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:32 pm
I did post a stat that said having a better Oline does help you win, so this does fall in line with that. Reid had nothing at either tackle spot so he traded for the best option because winning with a bad Oline isn't as easy as winning with a good one. It just is 5th on the list of important things. Ahead of having a great kicker or STs in general, but not even close to as important as having a great QB, WR or secondary.

The stats back this up and it isn't even really close.
You pick one offs for your point. Yes the Bengals made the SB with a junk OL. Other stuff played into that like picking Tannehill off 3 times. Once in the end zone and with the last one giving them the game winning FG. That ended it for Tanne as his replacement was just drafted. If the Bengals keep sticking with that junk OL Burrow will get knocked out again. This time it could be worse than season ending one he got when getting crushed in the pocket. But you and your stats are right the OL don't mean much. Get the best holder it will help more. I'm sure that stat is floating out there also.
It all starts at the lines as Char has stated and it isn't really close. If the QB gets knocked down before he can throw a pass it doesn't matter how good he or the WRs are. If the RB is being tackled as he is receiving the hand off it doesn't matter how good he is. Stump can post stats about how often a team wins under x-y-z circumstances, but those are completely irrelevant if the outcomes stated above happen. It starts with the lines and if they don't do their job nobody else can do their job. Stump will ignore this simple truth because he wants to win something.
VikingsFan84
Veteran
Posts: 255
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:06 am
x 38

Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by VikingsFan84 »

Vikings have signed QB David Blough, CB Tay Gowan, and WR Travis Toivonen to the practice squad and unfortanely, Blough is worse than Mannion
StumpHunter
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3557
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:55 am
x 615

Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by StumpHunter »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:52 pm
CharVike wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:52 pm
You pick one offs for your point. Yes the Bengals made the SB with a junk OL. Other stuff played into that like picking Tannehill off 3 times. Once in the end zone and with the last one giving them the game winning FG. That ended it for Tanne as his replacement was just drafted. If the Bengals keep sticking with that junk OL Burrow will get knocked out again. This time it could be worse than season ending one he got when getting crushed in the pocket. But you and your stats are right the OL don't mean much. Get the best holder it will help more. I'm sure that stat is floating out there also.
It all starts at the lines as Char has stated and it isn't really close. If the QB gets knocked down before he can throw a pass it doesn't matter how good he or the WRs are. If the RB is being tackled as he is receiving the hand off it doesn't matter how good he is. Stump can post stats about how often a team wins under x-y-z circumstances, but those are completely irrelevant if the outcomes stated above happen. It starts with the lines and if they don't do their job nobody else can do their job. Stump will ignore this simple truth because he wants to win something.
If the QB can't throw, the RB fumbles every time he is tackled, the WR can't catch, the CBs can't cover anyone or the Dline can't tackle, it doesn't matter how good the Oline is.

In the real world, not this make believe one where there are NFL offensive lines that are so incompetent, having the best Oline amounts to fewer wins than having the best QB, WR or secondary gets you. Oline matters, but not nearly as much as people like to pretend to avoid facing the facts that there are more issues with their favorite team than a bad center.
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3362
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 649

Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by VikingsVictorious »

VikingsFan84 wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 6:07 pm Vikings have signed QB David Blough, CB Tay Gowan, and WR Travis Toivonen to the practice squad and unfortanely, Blough is worse than Mannion
His name is pronounced with the same sound as ouch, but it should be like owe because he certainly blows and just may be worse than Mannion.
StumpHunter
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3557
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:55 am
x 615

Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by StumpHunter »

There are only 4 3rd rounders from 2021 not currently with the team that drafted them and the Vikings selected 3 of them. :wallbang:
TheCoolerOne
Transition Player
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:17 pm
Location: Ormond Beach, Florida
x 4

Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by TheCoolerOne »

StumpHunter wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 7:18 am There are only 4 3rd rounders from 2021 not currently with the team that drafted them and the Vikings selected 3 of them. :wallbang:
I think this is mattering less and less--feels like these teams (obviously a new regime is the largest contributing factor) are kind of operating with an NBA-type mindset.

If you know a dude is fundamentally no good, doesn't matter if it's one year in or three, just dump him. Draft better next year. If the mid-round guys we got this year are contributing, it won't even phase us.

Leatherwood, dump. Reagor, dump. If that little Giants receiver Toney doesn't pan out this year, dump. Shoot, if the Jets QB doesn't show massive improvement, I bet he'll be dumped too.

So few players really, truly benefit from a year or two on the bench, learning and growing. That's a college thing. When you get to the league, a (good) staff is going to know right away if a player's got it or not, and a smart staff is going to move that player one way or another if he doesn't.
CharVike
Career Elite Player
Posts: 2581
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:28 pm
x 495

Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by CharVike »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:52 pm
CharVike wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:52 pm
You pick one offs for your point. Yes the Bengals made the SB with a junk OL. Other stuff played into that like picking Tannehill off 3 times. Once in the end zone and with the last one giving them the game winning FG. That ended it for Tanne as his replacement was just drafted. If the Bengals keep sticking with that junk OL Burrow will get knocked out again. This time it could be worse than season ending one he got when getting crushed in the pocket. But you and your stats are right the OL don't mean much. Get the best holder it will help more. I'm sure that stat is floating out there also.
It all starts at the lines as Char has stated and it isn't really close. If the QB gets knocked down before he can throw a pass it doesn't matter how good he or the WRs are. If the RB is being tackled as he is receiving the hand off it doesn't matter how good he is. Stump can post stats about how often a team wins under x-y-z circumstances, but those are completely irrelevant if the outcomes stated above happen. It starts with the lines and if they don't do their job nobody else can do their job. Stump will ignore this simple truth because he wants to win something.
We sacked the great Stafford 10 times once and he didn't do much. The WR or RB or whatever didn't matter. Every CB I ever heard always said their job is easier when pressure is applied. No CB can hold coverage forever. Gibbs had a great OL. They took games over. "Gibbs knew exactly the type of players he wanted, and he understood that if you win in the trenches, you’ll find success no matter who is playing quarterback." By Lucas Ellinas November 7, 2021. Of course he'll say Gibbs has no idea what he's talking about. Our 1st game against the Bengals our OL gave that game away with many holding calls and no blocking as Cook avg 3 yards a carry for 60 yards which sucks. The worst part is we have the same problem this year. Guys learning on the job and nothing at center. That won't work. Good luck against top defensive fronts.
StanM
Starter
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:46 am
x 84

Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by StanM »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:50 am
StanM wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:04 am

I was corrected recently for referring to Mannion as Kirks personal assistant. I admitted that my opinion might be wrong but made the point that the way the Vikings keep Mannion around make for bad optics even if I’m wrong.

Well, here we go again if we sign him to the practice squad. What are we supposed to think if they bring him back again?
We are supposed to think the VIKINGS like having him around. Kirk as far as I know likes having him around as well.
This backup QB discussion about Mannion and Mond became moot points with two new backups signed. That’s how things go this time of year. :slice:
User avatar
VikingLord
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7671
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:12 pm
Location: The Land of the Ice and Snow
x 701

Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by VikingLord »

StanM wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:52 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:50 am
We are supposed to think the VIKINGS like having him around. Kirk as far as I know likes having him around as well.
This backup QB discussion about Mannion and Mond became moot points with two new backups signed. That’s how things go this time of year. :slice:
Funny how that turned out.

Let's face it - if a team has to go to the 3rd QB on the roster or PS things are generally not going well for that team. The season the 2017 Vikings with Keenum had was literally the same odds as being struck by lightning. Most teams in that situation will not win 3 games, much less 13 and end up in the conference championship.

I will be watching to see how things progress for Mond though. I liked what I saw from him and it will be interesting to see if he figures it out wherever he winds up.
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3362
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 649

Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by VikingsVictorious »

StanM wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:52 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:50 am
We are supposed to think the VIKINGS like having him around. Kirk as far as I know likes having him around as well.
This backup QB discussion about Mannion and Mond became moot points with two new backups signed. That’s how things go this time of year. :slice:
I'm almost certain we preferred both Mond and Mannion to Blough. Blough really blows.
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3362
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 649

Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by VikingsVictorious »

VikingLord wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:56 am
StanM wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:52 am

This backup QB discussion about Mannion and Mond became moot points with two new backups signed. That’s how things go this time of year. :slice:
Funny how that turned out.

Let's face it - if a team has to go to the 3rd QB on the roster or PS things are generally not going well for that team. The season the 2017 Vikings with Keenum had was literally the same odds as being struck by lightning. Most teams in that situation will not win 3 games, much less 13 and end up in the conference championship.

I will be watching to see how things progress for Mond though. I liked what I saw from him and it will be interesting to see if he figures it out wherever he winds up.
He wound up with Cleveland at least for now.
CharVike
Career Elite Player
Posts: 2581
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:28 pm
x 495

Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by CharVike »

VikingLord wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:56 am
StanM wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:52 am

This backup QB discussion about Mannion and Mond became moot points with two new backups signed. That’s how things go this time of year. :slice:
Funny how that turned out.

Let's face it - if a team has to go to the 3rd QB on the roster or PS things are generally not going well for that team. The season the 2017 Vikings with Keenum had was literally the same odds as being struck by lightning. Most teams in that situation will not win 3 games, much less 13 and end up in the conference championship.

I will be watching to see how things progress for Mond though. I liked what I saw from him and it will be interesting to see if he figures it out wherever he winds up.
Problem is the lighting hit our team and now that will be considered the norm for a backup. But your right most teams are done when using no 2 but the party is defiantly over if you go to no 3. It's a body to take the snap. IMO the Bucs and 49ers have figured it out the best. I'm sure some have other thoughts which is ok.
StumpHunter
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3557
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:55 am
x 615

Re: 53 Man Roster --predictions and developments

Post by StumpHunter »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:08 am
StanM wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:52 am

This backup QB discussion about Mannion and Mond became moot points with two new backups signed. That’s how things go this time of year. :slice:
I'm almost certain we preferred both Mond and Mannion to Blough. Blough really blows.
Sounds like they wanted Mond until he got picked up on waivers, then Mannion until he signed with Seattle, and now Blough is the guy.