The JC Tretter situation

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

Cliff
Site Admin
Posts: 9192
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:51 pm
Location: Kentucky
x 325

Re: The JC Tretter situation

Post by Cliff »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:25 amCertainly possible. Kwesi was in Cleveland the same time Tretter was. He might know something we don’t.

In reading the SI article, however, I don’t think Tretter was bad for team chemistry. Quite the opposite. The guy seems to be a uniter. But who knows?

You bring up a very valid point.
They might just look at him as someone watching for any little thing that goes against the NFLPA. Uniting players for playing is welcome, uniting players to all be paying attention to every detail of every bylaw might be unappealing.
User avatar
VikingLord
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7671
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:12 pm
Location: The Land of the Ice and Snow
x 701

Re: The JC Tretter situation

Post by VikingLord »

If Tretter has been blackballed by the league and everyone agrees he's out I'd think the NFLPA would have something to say about that. I haven't heard anything suggesting the NFLPA is raising this as an issue.

Also, still trying to understand why Tretter claims he reached out to the Vikings, but neither KAM nor KOC is aware of it. Apparently, the Vikings didn't reach out to him.

Not sure what is going on, but the talk doesn't seem to match the actions and facts as they are known. Lack of any action by the player's union suggests Tretter is probably just done playing while still enjoying causing a little "chaos" since he can.
makila
Veteran
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:43 pm
x 81

Re: The JC Tretter situation

Post by makila »

Yeah just saying, "we aren't interested in the guy due to all the other stuff that comes with it" is not the same as saying "the owners and nfl colluded to keep jc tretter out of the league". As Kapp said, it's extremely hard to prove in court. I respect the hell out of Kapp and what he post here. It's a good discussion.

If the union has anything to prove tretter is being locked out of the league due to being nflpa president then I very much expect them to bring it forward. Or frankly they are doing their union members a large disservice by not. And I'd be pissed if I was part of their union and they didn't.

It's odd to me his agent would have no idea how to reach Kwesi. And would just call the Vikings and leave a message, or however that works. If they did, and kwesi had no idea, that speaks to our front office, and issues. Or do we assume kwesi is lying in that scenario?

Also mlb players union in the past is historically incredibly strong vs nflpa. Yeah I know they are working to strengthen the nfl union. In the past, aside from being a North American sport, and both unions, one has been far more effective for their members than the other. Guaranteed money anyone?
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3362
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 649

Re: The JC Tretter situation

Post by VikingsVictorious »

Texas Vike wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:25 am I think anyone invested in this board cares about the civility with which we interact with one another. Kapp made a solid thread and now the first page is soiled with a childish temper tantrum. If you're not interested in the topic, move on. Be decent to one another, for Valhalla's sake! :v):

I get the critiques of Judd Zulgad, but it seems to me that posters here are not realizing that many folks that follow and report on the Vikings think that there is some fishy things going on with Tretter. It is far from an "out there" conspiracy theorist's notion.
See, for example, this:

It's not the first time we've seen this kind of thing in the NFL, honestly. Folks just don't pay close enough attention or don't want to believe it because it creates all kinds of cognitive dissonance.
I stand by my statements regarding collusion. Virtually impossible. Too many people would know and somebody would blow the whistle. Just like I don't believe the conspiracy theory regarding the first lunar landing being a fake. There is some real interesting stuff indicating it might be fake, but no way can you keep the wraps on something that big. No way you can keep the wraps on 32 NFL teams colluding against Tretter.
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3362
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 649

Re: The JC Tretter situation

Post by VikingsVictorious »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:55 am
StanM wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:57 am

I watch most of the Purple Daily content and Judd’s default setting is always the most negative scenario. I’m not sure if that’s his podcast personality or if it’s his default view of life but one has to take it with a grain of salt. I always expect his input to be some negative imagined crisis or conspiracy. Some of them have been spot on but a lot of them prove to be wrong. I like considering his opinions and as one of the original Vikings fans since 1961 I’d like to get my hands on a six pack of “Before I Die” so I’m not a “hater”.

This Tretter situation looks to be over but it wouldn’t surprise me if he got signed after camp. Anything is possible so never say never but his retirement appears to be legit and a moot point if there isn’t any interest.
I totally agree with you about Judd. I mentioned that he’s extremely cynical.

I’m going more by the SI article. It goes into great (actually sort of exhausting) detail about Tretter’s effectiveness as NFLPA President. If this article is true, and I have no reason to believe it’s not given the detail it goes into, then Tretter is a huge thorn in the side of Goodell and the owners. Does that prove collusion? Not even close.

But nobody can tell me that it doesn’t happen. There have been at least four separate allegations of it in Major League Baseball, the most famous of which happened in the 1980s. Commissioner Peter Ueberroth told the owners to hold down salaries “by whatever means possible,” and that’s exactly what the owners did. In 1987, only four free agents managed to sign with other teams. All of them got only 1-year deals, and three of them took pay cuts. This included Andre Dawson, who could only get a 1-year, $500k deal. How underpaid was Dawson? Well, he ended up winning the ‘87 National League MVP. Kirk Gibson, a true star at the time, couldn’t get anybody to sign him.

In the end, a judge ruled that the owners had been in collusion on three separate occasions (‘85, ‘86 and ‘87) and ordered them to pay $280 million in damages to the MLBPA.

Of course, the NFL has been charged with collusion. The league settled with Colin Kaepernick and Eric Reid for an undisclosed amount of money in their collusion grievance against the NFL. That doesn’t mean owners colluded to keep them out of the league. It simply means the NFL paid them to go away. While the amount of the settlement is confidential, the Wall Street Journal has reported it at $10 million, which if true probably represented a savings for the NFL in legal fees.

Point being — it’s very, very hard to prove collusion. This is especially true since the MLB collusion because unions have made sure to include strict collusion provisions in CBA language as a result. So Judd’s assertion that “nobody does collusion like the NFL” is pretty cynical, to the point of being reckless.

Again, I simply want to know why NOBODY will even take the call of a quality center (OK VV, if you say he’s not top-5, fine … he’s miles better than Bradbury) who just happens to be one of the most effective presidents the NFLPA has ever had. Also, think about this. Does Ziggy Wilf really want JC Tretter in the same locker room as Kirk Cousins, king of the guaranteed contract?

Yes, collusion is nearly impossible to prove. MLB was stupid in the ‘80s, leaving a trail of evidence as wide as I-35. But an individual owner not wanting to hire a guy who has cost that owner money? I can believe it. I see it as less collusion and more individual retaliation.

I encourage anyone with even a passing interest to read the SI article. It’s pretty eye-opening. Even though I’ve never been in a union, I can see from this read how effective Tretter is. And that makes him a threat to owners.

Let me add this. I’m not necessarily mad about it. There’s nothing any of us can do to change it. I just find it fascinating. All this time, I thought Tretter couldn’t get a job because his knee was shot. This casts doubt on that notion, at least in my eyes.

I’ll shut up now.
A team not signing him because he's a pain in the #### I could see. I could see many teams not signing him because he's a pain in the ####. Should a team be required to hire a player they see as a pain in the ####? Colluding as a league to not sign him is flat out wrong. An individual team making their own decision not to hire a pain in the #### player IMO is just fine.
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3362
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 649

Re: The JC Tretter situation

Post by VikingsVictorious »

IIsweet wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:01 am Do you think that it is possible that Kwesi is just not a fan of Tretter?
They were in Cleveland together and it is not hard to listen to what people say in the same building. Maybe Tretter is an A-hole? I would have no idea, but Kwesi was in the front office while Tretter played for the Browns.
Not hard to ignore a call from an agent for someone that is bad for team chemistry when you are in the process of changing a culture.

Have to say though, this is all speculation on my part. Just a thought
Teams should have the right to not hire somebody simply because they don't see him as a good fit for chemistry reasons. However, having that right makes a very convenient excuse for collusion. It's a slippery slope.
fiestavike
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4913
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:03 am
x 382

Re: The JC Tretter situation

Post by fiestavike »

VikingsFan84 wrote: Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:35 pm
Cliff wrote: Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:43 am

If anyone needs professional help it's you. Who goes into a topic they're not interested in and then complains that the topic is happening? As if you couldn't have just not read it.

Nobody cares that you don't care. Move on.
I already got professional help but since you replied to my post, you obviously care
:hitfan:
"You like that!"
-- Cap'n Spazz Cousins
StanM
Starter
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:46 am
x 84

Re: The JC Tretter situation

Post by StanM »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:35 pm
IIsweet wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 11:01 am Do you think that it is possible that Kwesi is just not a fan of Tretter?
They were in Cleveland together and it is not hard to listen to what people say in the same building. Maybe Tretter is an A-hole? I would have no idea, but Kwesi was in the front office while Tretter played for the Browns.
Not hard to ignore a call from an agent for someone that is bad for team chemistry when you are in the process of changing a culture.

Have to say though, this is all speculation on my part. Just a thought
Teams should have the right to not hire somebody simply because they don't see him as a good fit for chemistry reasons. However, having that right makes a very convenient excuse for collusion. It's a slippery slope.
Occum’s Razor, it’s probably the most simple reason, they didn’t want him for a variety of reasons. Proving that teams contacted each other and agreed to it is a bit of a stretch. I’m a Vikings fan and don’t want to see them involved in collusion. I don’t look for reasons to go beyond the football aspect. If I was in it for the drama I would give up football and watch soap operas.
Cliff
Site Admin
Posts: 9192
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:51 pm
Location: Kentucky
x 325

Re: The JC Tretter situation

Post by Cliff »

Why does collusion have to involve all of the teams contacting each other? Couldn't the league contact each team that might be interested individually? Now you're talking about 5-6 high level conversations between a top league official and the ownership of the teams. That's not nearly as far-fetched as those teams contacting each other and keeping that all quiet.
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3362
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 649

Re: The JC Tretter situation

Post by VikingsVictorious »

Cliff wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:28 am Why does collusion have to involve all of the teams contacting each other? Couldn't the league contact each team that might be interested individually? Now you're talking about 5-6 high level conversations between a top league official and the ownership of the teams. That's not nearly as far-fetched as those teams contacting each other and keeping that all quiet.
It needs all teams to be successful. If you leave somebody out of the loop they will sign any player that is truly good. However, trying to get everybody in the loop won't be kept under wraps. Collusion is just about impossible when it comes to not signing players.
fiestavike
Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 4913
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:03 am
x 382

Re: The JC Tretter situation

Post by fiestavike »

Cliff wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:28 am Why does collusion have to involve all of the teams contacting each other? Couldn't the league contact each team that might be interested individually? Now you're talking about 5-6 high level conversations between a top league official and the ownership of the teams. That's not nearly as far-fetched as those teams contacting each other and keeping that all quiet.
Even a bit less cynically, it's possible that teams genuinely feel like the drama of labor leadership is just a distraction and a headache, in the same way that Chris Kluwe, with his advocacy just became a distraction, wasting time and talking politics during meetings instead of being focused on the task at hand. The league is heavily invested in PR and having JC Tretter go unsigned is not great for their public image. Not as bad as it would have been for Michael Sam to go undrafted, but I suspect there was some serious cajoling from the league to make sure someone drafted him lest the optics take over the narrative.
"You like that!"
-- Cap'n Spazz Cousins
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9386
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 1619

Re: The JC Tretter situation

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 10:46 am
Cliff wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:28 am Why does collusion have to involve all of the teams contacting each other? Couldn't the league contact each team that might be interested individually? Now you're talking about 5-6 high level conversations between a top league official and the ownership of the teams. That's not nearly as far-fetched as those teams contacting each other and keeping that all quiet.
It needs all teams to be successful. If you leave somebody out of the loop they will sign any player that is truly good. However, trying to get everybody in the loop won't be kept under wraps. Collusion is just about impossible when it comes to not signing players.
What you're saying is true for the textbook definition of collusion. But there are plenty of ways to keep a guy out of the league without it rising to the level of full-scale collusion. Cliff is right ... the league could backchannel with the teams involved. The teams could talk among themselves.

But hey, at this point, it's all water under the bridge. The Vikings aren't signing Tretter. It is what it is.
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3362
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 649

Re: The JC Tretter situation

Post by VikingsVictorious »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 5:32 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 10:46 am
It needs all teams to be successful. If you leave somebody out of the loop they will sign any player that is truly good. However, trying to get everybody in the loop won't be kept under wraps. Collusion is just about impossible when it comes to not signing players.
What you're saying is true for the textbook definition of collusion. But there are plenty of ways to keep a guy out of the league without it rising to the level of full-scale collusion. Cliff is right ... the league could backchannel with the teams involved. The teams could talk among themselves.

But hey, at this point, it's all water under the bridge. The Vikings aren't signing Tretter. It is what it is.
I am talking textbook collusion. Which I'm virtually certain didn't happen. Could there be something a bit less intrusive going on? Maybe.