8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

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StumpHunter
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

Post by StumpHunter »

CharVike wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:32 am
StumpHunter wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:41 am

The pocket collapsed on him as he threw so he didn't step into that throw. That interception was not an accuracy issue it was a poor decision to throw it off his backfoot. The 2nd interception was also a throw off his backfoot and that only happened because Davidson dropped a first down the play previously.

Screw backup QB, why are the Vikings not looking for a backup TE that is any good? At least that position will still contribute if the starter stays healthy.
You won't have the opportunity to have perfect mechanics when playing in a game. You need to make some off balance throws. Sometimes you need to throw off the backfoot. I would hope a guy can throw the ball to the short sideline even without a full step into it. If not then he shouldn't be here. I've seen QBs falling backwards and get the ball out of bounds.
Mond is not Mahomes, you are correct there, but every backup needs great protection, defense and WRs to be successful or they would be starters.

My biggest issue with Mond in that game wasn't the ints which I actually like to see out of young QBs in preseason because they are good learning experiences. It is his complete lack of success on any of his drives during that game. You have to be able to move the ball against bad defenses like he faced on Saturday and he couldn't do it. It is the same issue I had with Mannion's play.
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

Post by makila »

Agree TE is a position we could use someone, anyone, who can catch a pass beyond Irv Smith, who sadly, is appearing availability is his poorest ability.

Re schlotman (sp??), hard to have an opinion on oline without watching the game. I saw very few snaps. They are tough to evaluate via stats only imo. And I played on oline. He graded superb and that's awesome. Continues in the rest of the preseason, give the man a chance to start.
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

Post by CharVike »

makila wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:53 am Agree TE is a position we could use someone, anyone, who can catch a pass beyond Irv Smith, who sadly, is appearing availability is his poorest ability.

Re schlotman (sp??), hard to have an opinion on oline without watching the game. I saw very few snaps. They are tough to evaluate via stats only imo. And I played on oline. He graded superb and that's awesome. Continues in the rest of the preseason, give the man a chance to start.
Our team lacks depth and that comes from poor drafting. Look at some of the better teams. They lose players and plug the next man in. The Bucs lost their center and it didn't cause major interruptions. The Rams LT retired and they didn't go into a scramble mode looking for a player. They plug the next guy in who actually had better PFF pass blocking than our starter. Our backup at LT is Oli who basically sucks. Smith who has shown flashes has also shown that he will miss time. We have nothing behind him. I guess it's hope, wish and prey that Davidson can catch a ball. Not a good way to fill a spot.
Now the Bucs lost their backup center to injury.
Just last night, a Bucs source said Hainsey has been looking great — and holding down the position in a way that seemed the team wouldn’t need to look for Jensen’s replacement outside the building. So now… we wait to see the severity of the injury.
Maybe they are 3 deep and we don't even have an acceptable starter.
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

Post by VikingLord »

StumpHunter wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:41 am The pocket collapsed on him as he threw so he didn't step into that throw. That interception was not an accuracy issue it was a poor decision to throw it off his backfoot. The 2nd interception was also a throw off his backfoot and that only happened because Davidson dropped a first down the play previously.
I watched the replay of that first INT several times and I agree with you that Mond made a good read, but just wasn't able to execute on the throw. The receiver was open on the play and had actually broken deep behind the DB. If the throw had been delivered where I think Mond intended to deliver it, it might have gone for big yardage or even a TD. But the protection broke down on that side and Mond couldn't get his weight into the throw and/or his arm might even have been tipped or hit. So the ball was just underthrown, and, as fate would have it, the DB who was actually beaten on the play ended up being in the perfect spot to pick the ball rather than desperately watching the ball sail over his head for a big gainer.

I still think Mond didn't play all that bad on aggregate considering the lack of a running game, the pressure he was constantly under, and the down-distance situations he found himself in. He continues to show escapability in the pocket and that lightning release. I thought his accuracy was decent when he can set his feet and make the throw. Honestly, I thought KOC over-reacted to the failures and misappropriated the blame for them. Both Mannion and Mond were hampered more by an aggressive defense coupled with miscues by their supporting cast than anything they did or didn't do per se. Of course, Mannion continues to be able to do much less than Mond in terms of physical capabilities IMHO, but getting another "Mannion+" to compete for the backup QB spot probably isn't a bad idea.
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

StumpHunter wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:25 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:19 pm The only one I’m not sure about is Schlottmann, and that’s only because I didn’t see the game, and I haven’t found any significant ink on his play. But I also couldn’t argue it.
I really don't understand why no one is talking about what Schlottmann did. He was not only the highest graded player on the team on Saturday, he was the highest graded Olineman in all of the NFL in week 2 of the preseason. The third best game of any qualifying olineman so far in the preseason with a 92.2 overall grade.

The only thing I can think of is that he has played so poorly in the rest of camp, most of the media expect him to just be a PS guy this season.
I think you may have answered your own question.

Not that Schlottmann has played poorly in camp. But maybe he just hasn’t wowed anybody. Coaches probably put more emphasis and give more credence to training camp practices than they do preseason games. It’s a controlled environment where they can evaluate a guy’s play in granular detail. It could be that Schlottmann hasn’t been that good. And remember, reporters are observing most camp practices. If he’d been outstanding in camp, you’d think he would get run with the 1s, since Bradbury has been pretty bad. But up to now, it’s been all Bradbury.

No matter what, he’s not a PS guy. The Vikings really have no one else to back Bradbury. Chris Reed is supposedly an option, but he’s never played a down at center and reportedly has trouble snapping. Schlottmann is C2, which hopefully means they’ll move him up if Bradbury sucks again. We should find out pretty quickly. Kenny Clark must be salivating over the idea of lining up against Bradbury in Week 1.
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

Post by VikingLord »

StumpHunter wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:44 am My biggest issue with Mond in that game wasn't the ints which I actually like to see out of young QBs in preseason because they are good learning experiences. It is his complete lack of success on any of his drives during that game. You have to be able to move the ball against bad defenses like he faced on Saturday and he couldn't do it. It is the same issue I had with Mannion's play.
You really consider the 49er defense bad? I guess the backups aren't as good as the starters, but those backups seemed pretty fundamentally sound to me. The 49ers play a great scheme to limit the run pretty much regardless of personnel, and that showed up against the Vikings on Saturday as well. They also get a solid pass rush even with their 2nd string defensive front.

To your larger point, the Vikings offense thus far has shown an inability to maintain drives against both defenses they've faced in the preseason. They are 3-18 so far on 3rd down (compared to their opponents which were a combined 15-33 on the same down), which is downright terrible. I don't know what their average distance to go on 3rd has been so far, but its hard to lay that solely at the feet of the QBs. That might be more of a scheme issue, and if so, that won't bode well for the starters if KOC is relying only on better execution to pick those up.

Hopefully that improves as well in the 3rd preseason game. If QB is the problem, that might show up by Mullens having better success sustaining drives than Mannion and Mond have had. Cousins and the starters will also likely play enough where they'll be tested a bit on 3rd too.

If the starters and/or Mullens have the same issue, that would indicate a much bigger problem.
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

Post by CharVike »

VikingLord wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:23 pm
StumpHunter wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:44 am My biggest issue with Mond in that game wasn't the ints which I actually like to see out of young QBs in preseason because they are good learning experiences. It is his complete lack of success on any of his drives during that game. You have to be able to move the ball against bad defenses like he faced on Saturday and he couldn't do it. It is the same issue I had with Mannion's play.
You really consider the 49er defense bad? I guess the backups aren't as good as the starters, but those backups seemed pretty fundamentally sound to me. The 49ers play a great scheme to limit the run pretty much regardless of personnel, and that showed up against the Vikings on Saturday as well. They also get a solid pass rush even with their 2nd string defensive front.

To your larger point, the Vikings offense thus far has shown an inability to maintain drives against both defenses they've faced in the preseason. They are 3-18 so far on 3rd down (compared to their opponents which were a combined 15-33 on the same down), which is downright terrible. I don't know what their average distance to go on 3rd has been so far, but its hard to lay that solely at the feet of the QBs. That might be more of a scheme issue, and if so, that won't bode well for the starters if KOC is relying only on better execution to pick those up.

Hopefully that improves as well in the 3rd preseason game. If QB is the problem, that might show up by Mullens having better success sustaining drives than Mannion and Mond have had. Cousins and the starters will also likely play enough where they'll be tested a bit on 3rd too.

If the starters and/or Mullens have the same issue, that would indicate a much bigger problem.
The 49ers live and die with their defense. They are very solid and it showed again in the playoffs last year. That is why Jimmy G has a great playoff w/l record. Last year they made a future HOFer Rodgers look like garbage. It came down to dominating the LOS. Even in the champ game loss they lost that game when their DB dropped an easy INT. But the Rams have a very good OL and they didn't get dominated at the point which gave their O a chance. During joint practices the 49ers dominated our starters. Nobody could block Bosa and that's only one guy. So we will need to double him which creates mismatches at other spots. That spells trouble. I don't care who the QB is. Everybody knew we needed to improve the OL. It hasn't happened based on the joint practices.
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

Post by VikingsVictorious »

CharVike wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:25 am
VikingLord wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:23 pm

You really consider the 49er defense bad? I guess the backups aren't as good as the starters, but those backups seemed pretty fundamentally sound to me. The 49ers play a great scheme to limit the run pretty much regardless of personnel, and that showed up against the Vikings on Saturday as well. They also get a solid pass rush even with their 2nd string defensive front.

To your larger point, the Vikings offense thus far has shown an inability to maintain drives against both defenses they've faced in the preseason. They are 3-18 so far on 3rd down (compared to their opponents which were a combined 15-33 on the same down), which is downright terrible. I don't know what their average distance to go on 3rd has been so far, but its hard to lay that solely at the feet of the QBs. That might be more of a scheme issue, and if so, that won't bode well for the starters if KOC is relying only on better execution to pick those up.

Hopefully that improves as well in the 3rd preseason game. If QB is the problem, that might show up by Mullens having better success sustaining drives than Mannion and Mond have had. Cousins and the starters will also likely play enough where they'll be tested a bit on 3rd too.

If the starters and/or Mullens have the same issue, that would indicate a much bigger problem.
The 49ers live and die with their defense. They are very solid and it showed again in the playoffs last year. That is why Jimmy G has a great playoff w/l record. Last year they made a future HOFer Rodgers look like garbage. It came down to dominating the LOS. Even in the champ game loss they lost that game when their DB dropped an easy INT. But the Rams have a very good OL and they didn't get dominated at the point which gave their O a chance. During joint practices the 49ers dominated our starters. Nobody could block Bosa and that's only one guy. So we will need to double him which creates mismatches at other spots. That spells trouble. I don't care who the QB is. Everybody knew we needed to improve the OL. It hasn't happened based on the joint practices.
I heard that Darrisaw did just fine against Bosa. Bosa beat him on one rep and got stopped on every other.