8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

Post by makila »

Podcasters (yes podcasters) are roasting qb2 spot. They have some solid points. Mannion with his experience should be able to compete against twos. He can't. He just can't.

Mond showed that 1st preseason game was a fluke it sounds like. I criticized that throw he made into the endzone in that game, while everyone was praising the scramble. Doesn't matter when you completely miss a wide open wr how much you scramble. He doesn't see the field.

Hope Booth injury is just a rolled ankle. Seems to be early thought.
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

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makila wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:13 pm T.Y. McGill, defensive line
It’s difficult to find a bigger winner of the night than T.Y. McGill. He was already putting together a strong training camp and followed with a great performance against the Raiders in Week 1 of the preseason. But against the 49ers, he was everywhere. As O’Connell said after the game, “He wrecked multiple plays tonight, had the sack and a half.” On top of that, McGill registered four quarterback hits and another tackle for loss.
Hard to understand where this is coming from with McGill. He has never performed at a high level consistently wherever he's been in the league, and he's been a lot of places (as Texas Vike noted, 8 teams in 8 years). Would like to believe he's finally figured it out, but I'm not sold on him yet.
makila wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:13 pm Akayleb Evans, cornerback
While it’s not typically the case that defensive backs with high tackle totals are doing a good job, Evans was great at keeping throws short and in front of him while also contributing in run and screen defense and finished as the game’s leading tackler for a good reason. Evans didn’t give up much over the top and did a great job forcing a fumble at the goal line that almost turned the game around after the two-minute mark.
Evans was one of my favorite picks out of this last draft, so good to see him doing well. Very hopeful he can develop into an impact starter at some point.
makila wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:13 pm Patrick Jones II, edge rusher
Jones finished the game with just half a sack, but his performance extended beyond that. Aside from generating pressure and pushing the quarterback into other defenders, Jones consistently set the edge and closed down on running backs, forcing losses for the offense. His pressure performance wasn’t bad either, contributing a pair of quarterback hurries in addition to his presence in the run game.
Jones plays with a lot of energy. Wonnum seems to have hit his ceiling, while Jones still has room to grow, so hopefully the Vikings give Jones a chance to show what he can do.
makila wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:13 pm Kellen Mond, quarterback
Kellen Mond’s first drive ended in an interception and so did his last. It would be one thing if either of Mond’s interceptions were impressive plays from opposing defenders, closing down on a pass from 20 yards out, but it’s quite another thing that they were both directly to their respective defenders – one that could have been a pick-six with a slightly better return and the other that iced the game down 10 points with 2:38 remaining. Mond finished with a passer rating of 21.3 and threw for 4.1 yards per passing attempt.

O’Connell was about as frank as he’s ever been in assessing Mond’s performance. “He’s moving the team on that first drive of the night, we get into a third down there in their half of the 50, chance at maybe getting some points, and the pocket kind of collapses on him,” he said. “That’s playing in the NFL. Can you be compact? Can you find a way to get that ball thrown to the open receiver without your arm getting tipped?
Mond had a much rougher outing against the 49ers than against the Raiders, but he still showed some escapability in the pocket on that early 3rd down conversion. To be fair to him as well, the 49ers were getting a lot of pressure and limiting the run much better than the Raiders did. It caused different down-distance scenarios for Mond and he didn't handle that as well. Still, I like his upside and hope he can learn from the experience and bounce back in the last preseason game.
makila wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:13 pm It was bleak. Sean Mannion was the better of the two quarterbacks but that doesn’t feel like saying much. Instead, the Vikings might do better looking outside of their roster for this season’s backup.
Mannion missed some painfully wide open throws from what I saw. If he was better, it was mainly because he didn't take any chances and didn't throw any picks as a result. Beyond that, I continue to see nothing special from him on the field.
makila wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:13 pm Oli Udoh, offensive line
There were a number of mistakes made by the Vikings offensive line throughout the night, especially in the run game, but the mistakes that came in pass protection largely came from Oli Udoh.

Udoh has converted back to tackle after playing guard last year, a clearly uncomfortable role for him. While he has looked better at tackle, it’s not enough of an improvement to be confident in his ability to step in during a game situation and hold down his side of the line in an emergency. Udoh allowed at least four pressures on just 25 pass-blocking snaps and though he wasn’t helped out by the penchant both quarterbacks had for holding on to the ball, he clearly needed to do more to help the team feel confident in what he can do.
Udoh has been a huge disappointment from what I've seen. I loved the pick when the Vikings took him and I always felt like he was put in a bad spot at guard, but now, at his more natural tackle position, he's been just as inconsistent as he was at guard. He'll make the team but he should be pushing the starters on this OL and instead I'd be nervous if he had to go out there and protect Cousins blind side.

Just a general comment on the game. The 49ers are a very sound, aggressive defense. They defend the run very well, and that showed against the Vikings in this last game. Against the Raiders the Vikings were able to pick up big chunks of ground running the ball, especially on early downs. That put Mannion and Mond into more manageable, and flexible, 3rd down situations or even avoided that down altogether. Against the 49ers, that wasn't the case, and both of them were forced into more obvious passing situations where the 49ers could get after them. Neither QB handled that pressure well.

Another observation is 3rd down conversion rate which was abysmal in both preseason games so far. Vikings opponents are converting at near 50%, which is worrying for the defense (I'm more worried there about scheme and less about players), while on offense the Vikings struggled greatly to pick up 1st downs against either defense they faced and struggled in time of possession as well. That again suggests a possible scheme problem more than personnel, but I can tell myself that the starters will do better on both sides of the ball when the games start to count. That better be true, because if it isn't, it's going to be a long season.
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

Post by cmoss84 »

StumpHunter wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:10 pm Schlottmann had an outstanding game at center which should be the A topic today with who the starter is ahead of him and the fact he went up against Kinlaw most of the time. Could be the Vikings have something there.

Ty Chandler is the 2nd best RB on the team and it isn't even close. He is a special runner and I think there is a good chance he is the #1 in 2023 if Cook refuses to take a pay cut or falls off this year.

McGill impressed me a lot more than Watts. The guy had 6 pressures, 2 sacks and 4 stops in just a half of football. Incredible.

Patrick Jones is a better pass rusher than Wonnum at this point and is also significantly better against the run. Hopefully the coaching staff has him as the 3rd guy in instead of one of the worst DEs in football last season.
Chandler ahead of Mattison? I like what I have seen from Chandler as well, but Mattison is pretty solid.
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

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StumpHunter wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:10 pm Schlottmann had an outstanding game at center which should be the A topic today with who the starter is ahead of him and the fact he went up against Kinlaw most of the time. Could be the Vikings have something there.
What do you think the odds are that Schlottmann wins the starting center spot over Bradbury?

I ask that mainly because I'm hearing some "Zimmer-speak" from KOC when it comes to Bradbury. KOC seems to acknowledge Bradbury is underperforming, especially in pass blocking, but then he alludes to some technical adjustments Bradbury can make, or at least thinks he can make, that will resolve that problem. Further, I think the coaches still like Bradbury's run blocking and ability to get out into space on screens and sweeps, all of which he isn't terrible at.

I get the sense that Bradbury is going to end up starting at center against Green Bay no matter how Schlottmann shows in this last preseason game. The Vikings didn't pick up Bradbury's option year, but I get the sense they feel he's their best option at center. My hope is they're open to honest evaluation of Bradbury as compared to Schlottmann, because I agree with you that Schlottmann performed really well against a tough 49er interior this last game.
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

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StumpHunter wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:10 pm Schlottmann had an outstanding game at center which should be the A topic today with who the starter is ahead of him and the fact he went up against Kinlaw most of the time. Could be the Vikings have something there.

Ty Chandler is the 2nd best RB on the team and it isn't even close. He is a special runner and I think there is a good chance he is the #1 in 2023 if Cook refuses to take a pay cut or falls off this year.

McGill impressed me a lot more than Watts. The guy had 6 pressures, 2 sacks and 4 stops in just a half of football. Incredible.

Patrick Jones is a better pass rusher than Wonnum at this point and is also significantly better against the run. Hopefully the coaching staff has him as the 3rd guy in instead of one of the worst DEs in football last season.
I didn’t see the “game,” as I chose to sit it out once I saw the list of 27 players who wouldn’t be playing.

But for perhaps the first time, I agree with you on pretty much everything. The only one I’m not sure about is Schlottmann, and that’s only because I didn’t see the game, and I haven’t found any significant ink on his play. But I also couldn’t argue it.

Let me add this about Chandler. I am, of course, on record as saying the Vikings should not pay big money to any running back. I’ve also stated that I love Dalvin Cook and believe him to be a fabulous player. But Cook’s contract next year takes him into the stratosphere for the position. That said … if the Vikings wanted out of the contract, next year is the first time they could do it and get significant savings against the cap. They could release him and save $21 million against the cap over 3 years ($27 total million cap hit vs. $6 million total dead cap).

I know, I know. It’s blasphemy to even speak of cutting a guy like Dalvin Cook. But this Chandler fellow … he’s got vision, patience and 4.38 speed. He’s good in the passing game. Production-wise, he could hold his own, especially when you pair him with a guy like Kene Nwangwu.

More importantly, I don’t believe superstar bell cow running back is an important position in the McVay/O’Connell system. My understanding is that guys with skill sets like Chandler and Nwangwu are more of what his system needs. Cook is more of an every down, workhorse type back. Oh sure, he’s so talented that I’m guessing he can do everything this system needs, and then some. But is it necessary to pay that kind of money for it? Especially when that running back will be 28 years old and entering his 7th year in the league?

All to say, I agree with your point that Chandler may find himself as RB1 in 2023.
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

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J. Kapp 11 wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:19 pm All to say, I agree with your point that Chandler may find himself as RB1 in 2023.
I'm really trying to figure out how Chandler made it to Round 5 in this last draft given what he's showing so far.

This is the Walterfootball take on the pick:
Minnesota Vikings: Ty Chandler, RB, North Carolina - C- Grade
This pick neither fills a need or provides value. Ty Chandler is a late-round/UDFA guy, and the Vikings have a log jam at running back. Chandler can catch passes out of the backfield well, but I can't see him contributing anytime soon.
I watched some of Chandler's pre-draft highlights on Youtube and really liked what I saw, but mostly related to that aforementioned ability to catch passes. I didn't expect him to be a 3 down RB, much less possibly an impact 3 down RB. So if KAM managed to find a 3 down, impact RB where he did in the 5th round, that would be very impressive. I'm not convinced he did yet, but then again, I'm still excited about Mond's potential, so it's possible I'm way, way off with what I'm seeing.

As for Cook, I am with you on the contract situation, and Cousins' contract next season isn't going to help if Cook wants to remain a Viking. He's also had trouble staying on the field during his career, which likely means we'll get to see that RB depth and the effectiveness of the guys behind Cook this season, and maybe quite a bit of them.

Between Chandler and Nwangwu, I'm not sure which of those two I'd put ahead of the other. Both have shown some nice flashes so far, but Nwangwu ends up ahead of Chandler for me based on experience and versatility. I'm sure Chandler can return kickoffs, but Nwangwu has proven he can make an impact doing that.

I think the Vikings will try to stash Chandler on the practice squad this year and carry Cook, Mattison and Nwangwu along with Ham as their RBs. Chandler will attract some looks but as much as we may like what we've seen from him I don't think anyone is going to poach him.

As for his future on the team, he does seem like he's got potential to take on a much bigger role. Time will tell, but KAM seems like he made an excellent choice with Chandler in the 5th.
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

Post by Raz »

Don’t be so sure Ham is included on the 53 the rams and most of the nfl don’t roster a fullback anymore.
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

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VikingLord wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:33 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:19 pm All to say, I agree with your point that Chandler may find himself as RB1 in 2023.
I'm really trying to figure out how Chandler made it to Round 5 in this last draft given what he's showing so far.

This is the Walterfootball take on the pick:
Minnesota Vikings: Ty Chandler, RB, North Carolina - C- Grade
This pick neither fills a need or provides value. Ty Chandler is a late-round/UDFA guy, and the Vikings have a log jam at running back. Chandler can catch passes out of the backfield well, but I can't see him contributing anytime soon.
I watched some of Chandler's pre-draft highlights on Youtube and really liked what I saw, but mostly related to that aforementioned ability to catch passes. I didn't expect him to be a 3 down RB, much less possibly an impact 3 down RB. So if KAM managed to find a 3 down, impact RB where he did in the 5th round, that would be very impressive. I'm not convinced he did yet, but then again, I'm still excited about Mond's potential, so it's possible I'm way, way off with what I'm seeing.

As for Cook, I am with you on the contract situation, and Cousins' contract next season isn't going to help if Cook wants to remain a Viking. He's also had trouble staying on the field during his career, which likely means we'll get to see that RB depth and the effectiveness of the guys behind Cook this season, and maybe quite a bit of them.

Between Chandler and Nwangwu, I'm not sure which of those two I'd put ahead of the other. Both have shown some nice flashes so far, but Nwangwu ends up ahead of Chandler for me based on experience and versatility. I'm sure Chandler can return kickoffs, but Nwangwu has proven he can make an impact doing that.

I think the Vikings will try to stash Chandler on the practice squad this year and carry Cook, Mattison and Nwangwu along with Ham as their RBs. Chandler will attract some looks but as much as we may like what we've seen from him I don't think anyone is going to poach him.

As for his future on the team, he does seem like he's got potential to take on a much bigger role. Time will tell, but KAM seems like he made an excellent choice with Chandler in the 5th.
Walter Football. That’s one source. But it’s the only one I can find that has him as an undrafted free agent. Most draft experts had him right where he went, rounds 5-6. There are things that hold him back. He’s not powerful enough to break a lot of tackles, and his patience sometimes can actually be a hindrance. At the same time, he’s really shown himself to be an asset so far.

I disagree with you about Nwangwu as far as experience. He had just 143 total carries in college and only 13 carries for the Vikings last year. As you know, I love Kene Nwangwu. But there were reasons he wasn’t a starter. His vision isn’t what you’d want ideally, and for someone as fast as he is, he’s a bit stiff. But that guy … if he gets into the open, forget about it. He’s so fast.

I don’t think either of them by themself is anywhere near what Dalvin Cook is. But the two of them together might be able to provide enough production in THIS offense at a fraction of Cook’s cost.

Gonna be an interesting season.
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

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VikingLord wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:33 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:19 pm All to say, I agree with your point that Chandler may find himself as RB1 in 2023.
I'm really trying to figure out how Chandler made it to Round 5 in this last draft given what he's showing so far.

This is the Walterfootball take on the pick:
Minnesota Vikings: Ty Chandler, RB, North Carolina - C- Grade
This pick neither fills a need or provides value. Ty Chandler is a late-round/UDFA guy, and the Vikings have a log jam at running back. Chandler can catch passes out of the backfield well, but I can't see him contributing anytime soon.
I watched some of Chandler's pre-draft highlights on Youtube and really liked what I saw, but mostly related to that aforementioned ability to catch passes. I didn't expect him to be a 3 down RB, much less possibly an impact 3 down RB. So if KAM managed to find a 3 down, impact RB where he did in the 5th round, that would be very impressive. I'm not convinced he did yet, but then again, I'm still excited about Mond's potential, so it's possible I'm way, way off with what I'm seeing.

As for Cook, I am with you on the contract situation, and Cousins' contract next season isn't going to help if Cook wants to remain a Viking. He's also had trouble staying on the field during his career, which likely means we'll get to see that RB depth and the effectiveness of the guys behind Cook this season, and maybe quite a bit of them.

Between Chandler and Nwangwu, I'm not sure which of those two I'd put ahead of the other. Both have shown some nice flashes so far, but Nwangwu ends up ahead of Chandler for me based on experience and versatility. I'm sure Chandler can return kickoffs, but Nwangwu has proven he can make an impact doing that.

I think the Vikings will try to stash Chandler on the practice squad this year and carry Cook, Mattison and Nwangwu along with Ham as their RBs. Chandler will attract some looks but as much as we may like what we've seen from him I don't think anyone is going to poach him.

As for his future on the team, he does seem like he's got potential to take on a much bigger role. Time will tell, but KAM seems like he made an excellent choice with Chandler in the 5th.
I think we don't PS Chandler and if we try to he does get poached.
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

Post by Foreman44 »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:14 am
VikingLord wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:33 pm

I'm really trying to figure out how Chandler made it to Round 5 in this last draft given what he's showing so far.

This is the Walterfootball take on the pick:



I watched some of Chandler's pre-draft highlights on Youtube and really liked what I saw, but mostly related to that aforementioned ability to catch passes. I didn't expect him to be a 3 down RB, much less possibly an impact 3 down RB. So if KAM managed to find a 3 down, impact RB where he did in the 5th round, that would be very impressive. I'm not convinced he did yet, but then again, I'm still excited about Mond's potential, so it's possible I'm way, way off with what I'm seeing.

As for Cook, I am with you on the contract situation, and Cousins' contract next season isn't going to help if Cook wants to remain a Viking. He's also had trouble staying on the field during his career, which likely means we'll get to see that RB depth and the effectiveness of the guys behind Cook this season, and maybe quite a bit of them.

Between Chandler and Nwangwu, I'm not sure which of those two I'd put ahead of the other. Both have shown some nice flashes so far, but Nwangwu ends up ahead of Chandler for me based on experience and versatility. I'm sure Chandler can return kickoffs, but Nwangwu has proven he can make an impact doing that.

I think the Vikings will try to stash Chandler on the practice squad this year and carry Cook, Mattison and Nwangwu along with Ham as their RBs. Chandler will attract some looks but as much as we may like what we've seen from him I don't think anyone is going to poach him.

As for his future on the team, he does seem like he's got potential to take on a much bigger role. Time will tell, but KAM seems like he made an excellent choice with Chandler in the 5th.
I think we don't PS Chandler and if we try to he does get poached.
I am going that I trust our GM and coaches abilities to evaluate talent.

I think they will decide who stays and goes. My guess some very hard choices to make, some may go on to star elsewhere. But.... we can only keep so many,

My hope is out coach makes the right decisions
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

Post by CharVike »

makila wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:05 am Podcasters (yes podcasters) are roasting qb2 spot. They have some solid points. Mannion with his experience should be able to compete against twos. He can't. He just can't.

Mond showed that 1st preseason game was a fluke it sounds like. I criticized that throw he made into the endzone in that game, while everyone was praising the scramble. Doesn't matter when you completely miss a wide open wr how much you scramble. He doesn't see the field.

Hope Booth injury is just a rolled ankle. Seems to be early thought.
Mannion didn't get much help either. He hit Davidson with a pass and he had nothing in front him but he couldn't catch it. Blame goes across the board. Davidson has proven in camp and preseason that he's not a reliable pass catcher. That don't help the QBs. Mond has no accuracy throwing outside the numbers. Never did. That first interception was pathetic. Lead the receiver to the sidelines. He threw up a short lollipop for an easy interception.
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

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J. Kapp 11 wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:19 pm The only one I’m not sure about is Schlottmann, and that’s only because I didn’t see the game, and I haven’t found any significant ink on his play. But I also couldn’t argue it.
I really don't understand why no one is talking about what Schlottmann did. He was not only the highest graded player on the team on Saturday, he was the highest graded Olineman in all of the NFL in week 2 of the preseason. The third best game of any qualifying olineman so far in the preseason with a 92.2 overall grade.

The only thing I can think of is that he has played so poorly in the rest of camp, most of the media expect him to just be a PS guy this season.
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

Post by StumpHunter »

Foreman44 wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 6:29 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:14 am
I think we don't PS Chandler and if we try to he does get poached.
I am going that I trust our GM and coaches abilities to evaluate talent.

I think they will decide who stays and goes. My guess some very hard choices to make, some may go on to star elsewhere. But.... we can only keep so many,

My hope is out coach makes the right decisions
I worry they will focus too much on who will help the team out the most this year and Mattison is the safest guy to be the #2 with his great blitz pickup and experience while Nwangwu is a very good return guy. The third RB won't get a ton of carries, so Chandler's ability to help the team compared to those two if everything goes right will be limited.

If it were up to me I would roll the dice and make Chandler #2, Nwangwu #3 and move on from Mattison. Unless they don't plan on using the FB much, then Ham should be gone of course.
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

Post by StumpHunter »

CharVike wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:12 am
makila wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:05 am Podcasters (yes podcasters) are roasting qb2 spot. They have some solid points. Mannion with his experience should be able to compete against twos. He can't. He just can't.

Mond showed that 1st preseason game was a fluke it sounds like. I criticized that throw he made into the endzone in that game, while everyone was praising the scramble. Doesn't matter when you completely miss a wide open wr how much you scramble. He doesn't see the field.

Hope Booth injury is just a rolled ankle. Seems to be early thought.
Mannion didn't get much help either. He hit Davidson with a pass and he had nothing in front him but he couldn't catch it. Blame goes across the board. Davidson has proven in camp and preseason that he's not a reliable pass catcher. That don't help the QBs. Mond has no accuracy throwing outside the numbers. Never did. That first interception was pathetic. Lead the receiver to the sidelines. He threw up a short lollipop for an easy interception.
The pocket collapsed on him as he threw so he didn't step into that throw. That interception was not an accuracy issue it was a poor decision to throw it off his backfoot. The 2nd interception was also a throw off his backfoot and that only happened because Davidson dropped a first down the play previously.

Screw backup QB, why are the Vikings not looking for a backup TE that is any good? At least that position will still contribute if the starter stays healthy.
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Re: 8/20/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs 49ers US Bank

Post by CharVike »

StumpHunter wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:41 am
CharVike wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:12 am
Mannion didn't get much help either. He hit Davidson with a pass and he had nothing in front him but he couldn't catch it. Blame goes across the board. Davidson has proven in camp and preseason that he's not a reliable pass catcher. That don't help the QBs. Mond has no accuracy throwing outside the numbers. Never did. That first interception was pathetic. Lead the receiver to the sidelines. He threw up a short lollipop for an easy interception.
The pocket collapsed on him as he threw so he didn't step into that throw. That interception was not an accuracy issue it was a poor decision to throw it off his backfoot. The 2nd interception was also a throw off his backfoot and that only happened because Davidson dropped a first down the play previously.

Screw backup QB, why are the Vikings not looking for a backup TE that is any good? At least that position will still contribute if the starter stays healthy.
You won't have the opportunity to have perfect mechanics when playing in a game. You need to make some off balance throws. Sometimes you need to throw off the backfoot. I would hope a guy can throw the ball to the short sideline even without a full step into it. If not then he shouldn't be here. I've seen QBs falling backwards and get the ball out of bounds.