8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by CharVike »

StpViking wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:40 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:30 am
You can't mean Mond would beat Cousins out. You must mean beat Mannion out.
No I mean Cousins. I already know what I'm going to get with Cousins. Lose to teams that have above .500 records, should beat teams that are below .500. With Mond and his skill sets, he just brings something different to opposing defenses.
Mond does bring something different and after one half of play against guys that will never make an NFL roster he is now a member of the Vikings preseason HOF QB list. He joins 2 other QBs Rosenfels and Webb. They also played great in preseason but it never transferred into the regular season. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/sa ... preseason/
Cousins will throw 30+ TD passes playing behind a junk OL and people act like that is garbage play. He's never been to the Super Bowl and more than likely never will be. You need a solid team that gets hot in the playoffs to make the SB. Getting the breaks also needs to happen.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by Texas Vike »

VikingLord wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:00 am I didn't see the game, but for those who did, how would you characterize the Vikings run defense?

The stat sheet doesn't look great. They gave up 140 yards on 39 carries for a 3.6 yards-per-carry against. I guess that isn't terrible in terms of YPC, but still, the Raiders pounded it at them. I know it is preseason and not all the starters played but I was hoping to see some evidence of improvement in the run defense. If they can't defend the run better than they did last year, it's going to be another long season for the defense.

Another question for those who watched the game is in regards to the right guard and center position battles. Those aren't necessarily easy to pick out unless you're specifically watching those players, but any comments or observations to add to what makila posted? Sounds like Mannion struggled, but were his struggles caused by poor protection? While Cousins isn't Mannion, if those two positions aren't improved over what we saw most of last year, Cousins will be affected by that problem. I guess what I'd really like to know is, has the weakness at either center, right guard, or both, been addressed compared to what we saw last year? If not, it's a lot like the effect the run defense will have on the team's chances.

This is where I also hope KOC can show what he can do compared to Zimmer and first off make honest assessments of who deserves to win certain starting jobs, plus make scheme adjustments as necessary to minimize whatever personnel weaknesses the team still has going into this season. Zimmer seemed stubborn when it came to things like that and it cost him and the team in the end. I hope KOC shows a little more flexibility.
I think it was hard to tell how effective our run D is going to be. Of the two teams running games, however, ours looked superior. In the 2nd quarter Schlottmann, Ingram and Hinton were mauling the Raiders Dline, allowing 9 yard runs on demand.

Regarding Ingram, see this:
Ed Ingram preseason debut PFF grades:
84.4 run block
74.0 pass block (1 QB hit allowed on 17 pass blocking snaps)
87.3 overall

Ingram’s 87.3 overall grade is the highest of any rookie OL who’s played 25 or more snaps this preseason, ahead of Trevor Penning at 86.2
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingsVictorious »

Texas Vike wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:04 pm
VikingLord wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:00 am I didn't see the game, but for those who did, how would you characterize the Vikings run defense?

The stat sheet doesn't look great. They gave up 140 yards on 39 carries for a 3.6 yards-per-carry against. I guess that isn't terrible in terms of YPC, but still, the Raiders pounded it at them. I know it is preseason and not all the starters played but I was hoping to see some evidence of improvement in the run defense. If they can't defend the run better than they did last year, it's going to be another long season for the defense.

Another question for those who watched the game is in regards to the right guard and center position battles. Those aren't necessarily easy to pick out unless you're specifically watching those players, but any comments or observations to add to what makila posted? Sounds like Mannion struggled, but were his struggles caused by poor protection? While Cousins isn't Mannion, if those two positions aren't improved over what we saw most of last year, Cousins will be affected by that problem. I guess what I'd really like to know is, has the weakness at either center, right guard, or both, been addressed compared to what we saw last year? If not, it's a lot like the effect the run defense will have on the team's chances.

This is where I also hope KOC can show what he can do compared to Zimmer and first off make honest assessments of who deserves to win certain starting jobs, plus make scheme adjustments as necessary to minimize whatever personnel weaknesses the team still has going into this season. Zimmer seemed stubborn when it came to things like that and it cost him and the team in the end. I hope KOC shows a little more flexibility.
I think it was hard to tell how effective our run D is going to be. Of the two teams running games, however, ours looked superior. In the 2nd quarter Schlottmann, Ingram and Hinton were mauling the Raiders Dline, allowing 9 yard runs on demand.

Regarding Ingram, see this:
Ed Ingram preseason debut PFF grades:
84.4 run block
74.0 pass block (1 QB hit allowed on 17 pass blocking snaps)
87.3 overall

Ingram’s 87.3 overall grade is the highest of any rookie OL who’s played 25 or more snaps this preseason, ahead of Trevor Penning at 86.2
It's looking like Kwesi knew what he was doing drafting Ingram.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by Texas Vike »

Mond did some good things. He also did a few bad things. This is in the latter category:

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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingLord »

Texas Vike wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:04 pm
Ed Ingram preseason debut PFF grades:
84.4 run block
74.0 pass block (1 QB hit allowed on 17 pass blocking snaps)
87.3 overall

Ingram’s 87.3 overall grade is the highest of any rookie OL who’s played 25 or more snaps this preseason, ahead of Trevor Penning at 86.2
Thanks for posting both the clips and the PFF grades.

I felt like Ingram was one of the best interior OL available in this last draft based on his college career and what he brings to the table. The issue with Ingram was always going to be about his off-field history, but not his ability to contribute at some point. I felt like if the Vikings were OK with taking him, however, he'd make an excellent choice and give them a chance to finally get a quality starter at right guard.

What I wasn't expecting was for Ingram to be the starting right guard this season. Granted, it is just one preseason game, but he just looked the part. He stood out, and for a guard at the pro level, that is not easy to do, preseason and first game or not. Here's hoping he does for the right guard position coming out of LSU what JJ did for the WR position coming out of LSU.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

Watching the replay of the game now. One thing that's irritating about the preseason is that they use local home-team announcers. These guys aren't saying a single word about the Vikings' players. Three different times, Kene Nwangwu caught passes or ran the ball, and they didn't even bother to say his name.

Oh well. I guess it'll be the same for us next week at home against the Niners.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingLord »

Texas Vike wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:13 pm Mond did some good things. He also did a few bad things. This is in the latter category:
For me, the most impressive Mond play was his scramble. Yes, at the end of it he missed a wide open receiver for a TD, but that ability to keep a play alive like that was very unique. Most young QBs in that situation will tuck the ball and try to run for yardage. They'll just give up and stop looking for a pass. Mond never did that. He made some moves to avoid pressure, and then looked downfield again. If he hits that throw, it's a highlight reel play.

I've been reading he's not processing the field after the snap, but he made some throws that suggest he is able to do that. It might not be as fast as it could be, but there is some evidence that ability is there.

His throwing motion is very natural and will serve him well if he can improve his accuracy and timing a bit. His ability to scramble and keep his throwing options open will likewise be very valuable provided he can make throws on the run in addition to seeing open receivers in those situations.

I'm cautiously optimistic that Mond can develop. He has a much higher upside than Mannion IMHO.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingLord »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:18 pm Watching the replay of the game now. One thing that's irritating about the preseason is that they use local home-team announcers. These guys aren't saying a single word about the Vikings' players. Three different times, Kene Nwangwu caught passes or ran the ball, and they didn't even bother to say his name.

Oh well. I guess it'll be the same for us next week at home against the Niners.
Kapp, you were so right about Nwangwu it is amazing. He reminds me a little of Robert Smith in terms of how he just slices through gaps and accelerates.

I think the Vikings are going to struggle to get these RBs touches, but at least if Cook goes out, the Vikings have a lot of talented players who can pick up the slack.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by Texas Vike »

Despite mispronouncing his name, this guy does a really nice analysis of the things Cine did well last night:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km464j2IAqc&t=234s
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

VikingLord wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:23 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:18 pm Watching the replay of the game now. One thing that's irritating about the preseason is that they use local home-team announcers. These guys aren't saying a single word about the Vikings' players. Three different times, Kene Nwangwu caught passes or ran the ball, and they didn't even bother to say his name.

Oh well. I guess it'll be the same for us next week at home against the Niners.
Kapp, you were so right about Nwangwu it is amazing. He reminds me a little of Robert Smith in terms of how he just slices through gaps and accelerates.

I think the Vikings are going to struggle to get these RBs touches, but at least if Cook goes out, the Vikings have a lot of talented players who can pick up the slack.
Thanks man. Hate to say it, but it's usually not "if" Cook goes out. It's "when." Running back depth is very important on this team.

It's weird. At Iowa State, Nwangwu didn't play much because he was behind Breece Hall, who is just a flat-out stud. But it seemed like Kene was breaking a big run every game, even though he'd only get a few touches. Let's face it, the guy can flat fly, and if he can learn to be a running back and not just a fast guy, he could really help this team. We already know he can help on special teams.

Also impressing me is Ty Chandler, another guy I've been telling everybody to keep an eye on. Man, does this guy have patience. Reminds me of a young Le'Veon Bell. Really reads tacklers and sets up his blocks, then gets north and south decisively. It's impossible to not like this kid. I would not be surprised if Alexander Mattison finds himself on the outside looking in before long.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingLord »

Texas Vike wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:23 pm Despite mispronouncing his name, this guy does a really nice analysis of the things Cine did well last night:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km464j2IAqc&t=234s
I liked Cine's aggressiveness in college and it looks like he's showing that skillset as a pro as well. He's a physical player and a good tackler. It remains to be seen how he does in coverage when he's targeted and whether any OC's will try to take advantage of his aggressiveness by trying to get over the top on him, but at least against the Raiders backups he looked pretty good.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingsFan84 »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:23 am
VikingsFan84 wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:54 pm

Mannion is not going to be gone, he will stay as long Cousins is here and yeah, Chandler looked good and the diving catch by Dillion was nice
If Mannion is here or not Cousins will have nothing to do with it. He has no demands or even requests with management regarding Mannion staying or going.
Yes he does, Kirk told management to sign Mannion and Vikings honored Kirk’s request
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingsVictorious »

VikingsFan84 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:57 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:23 am
If Mannion is here or not Cousins will have nothing to do with it. He has no demands or even requests with management regarding Mannion staying or going.
Yes he does, Kirk told management to sign Mannion and Vikings honored Kirk’s request
You're claiming that Cousins told management to sign Mannion. I don't believe he can tell them anything. At most it was a request. As for this request existing show me proof.
Last edited by VikingsVictorious on Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

VikingsFan84 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:57 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:23 am
If Mannion is here or not Cousins will have nothing to do with it. He has no demands or even requests with management regarding Mannion staying or going.
Yes he does, Kirk told management to sign Mannion and Vikings honored Kirk’s request
Can you cite an article or quote from somebody?
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Re: 8/14/22 PreSeason: Vikings vs Raiders in Las Vegas

Post by VikingsFan84 »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:05 pm
VikingsFan84 wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:57 pm

Yes he does, Kirk told management to sign Mannion and Vikings honored Kirk’s request
You're claiming the Cousins told management to sign Mannion. I don't believe he can tell them anything. At most it was a request. As for this request existing show me proof.
:lol: I was joking!