Vikings Training Camp 2022

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Re: Vikings Training Camp 2022

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VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:01 am
StanM wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:11 am

I look at rookie signings as a routine process. They are limited in their negotiating and rarely hold out. This was a non-story and for some a lame excuse for hating on KAM.
I am not hating on KAM, but I'm not impressed either. The Vikings have routinely been one of the last teams to get their players signed for about the last 10 years. To me this indicates to the rookies that the team doesn't give a rat's #### about them. Since it is routine why not get it done.
But we don’t know WHY these guys weren’t signed. You’re assuming it’s KAM’s fault, but often it’s the player — more likely the agent — who is dragging out the process.

Leigh Steinberg, the famous and successful agent, describes Joey Bosa’s holdout in 2016 …
His issues were the timing of his bonus payment, in which he wanted no money deferred into the following year and offset language. Offset occurs when the team cuts a player, whose contract is guaranteed for skill. The team is responsible for paying that year’s salary and wants to have that payment reduced by the amount a player receives from another team. A team is unlikely to cut a first round player in the first four years, so the chance of the offset scenario occurring is unlikely.
That’s not to say Booth was holding out. But there may have been some language in his contract that his agent wanted to change. At any rate, it’s not really fair to assume the GM is to blame when we don’t know all the facts.
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Re: Vikings Training Camp 2022

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J. Kapp 11 wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:43 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:01 am
I am not hating on KAM, but I'm not impressed either. The Vikings have routinely been one of the last teams to get their players signed for about the last 10 years. To me this indicates to the rookies that the team doesn't give a rat's #### about them. Since it is routine why not get it done.
But we don’t know WHY these guys weren’t signed. You’re assuming it’s KAM’s fault, but often it’s the player — more likely the agent — who is dragging out the process.

Leigh Steinberg, the famous and successful agent, describes Joey Bosa’s holdout in 2016 …
His issues were the timing of his bonus payment, in which he wanted no money deferred into the following year and offset language. Offset occurs when the team cuts a player, whose contract is guaranteed for skill. The team is responsible for paying that year’s salary and wants to have that payment reduced by the amount a player receives from another team. A team is unlikely to cut a first round player in the first four years, so the chance of the offset scenario occurring is unlikely.
That’s not to say Booth was holding out. But there may have been some language in his contract that his agent wanted to change. At any rate, it’s not really fair to assume the GM is to blame when we don’t know all the facts.
It's Kwesi's job to get it done and he eventually got it done. Maybe the players were totally unreasonable. We won't know. The Vikings have under the previous regime set a precedent for being one of the last teams to get their rookies signed year after year. I'm tired of it and hope that won't be Kwesi's MO.
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Re: Vikings Training Camp 2022

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Highlights from Day 2.
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Re: Vikings Training Camp 2022

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Mond is back working with the 3's after splitting time with Mannion at the 2's yesterday. Could be a rotational thing and Mond will be with the 2's today, but if he isn't, and Mond is the #3 QB once again this season, might as well stick a fork in him, cause he is done.
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Re: Vikings Training Camp 2022

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VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:58 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:43 pm
But we don’t know WHY these guys weren’t signed. You’re assuming it’s KAM’s fault, but often it’s the player — more likely the agent — who is dragging out the process.

Leigh Steinberg, the famous and successful agent, describes Joey Bosa’s holdout in 2016 …



That’s not to say Booth was holding out. But there may have been some language in his contract that his agent wanted to change. At any rate, it’s not really fair to assume the GM is to blame when we don’t know all the facts.
It's Kwesi's job to get it done and he eventually got it done. Maybe the players were totally unreasonable. We won't know. The Vikings have under the previous regime set a precedent for being one of the last teams to get their rookies signed year after year. I'm tired of it and hope that won't be Kwesi's MO.
I just have to say it.

The Minnesota Vikings don’t care whether you or I are tired of how long it takes to sign rookies. So for me, I try not to get too worked up about things that, in the end, don’t matter all that much.

Also, it might not even be Kwesi’s role. Rob Brzezinski is EVP for Football Operations and is in charge of cap-related issues. For all we know, he might be the one doing the negotiating and getting final approval from KAM. Again, we don’t know the details.

VV, you don’t seem like the type to grasp for things to criticize (Lord knows we have plenty of people around here who do that on a daily basis). I guess I don’t understand why you seem to be so down on Kwesi. He hired Kevin O’Connell, who seems to give the Vikings offense and Kirk Cousins the best chance to succeed. What’s your issue with Kwesi?
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Re: Vikings Training Camp 2022

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J. Kapp 11 wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 8:14 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:58 pm
It's Kwesi's job to get it done and he eventually got it done. Maybe the players were totally unreasonable. We won't know. The Vikings have under the previous regime set a precedent for being one of the last teams to get their rookies signed year after year. I'm tired of it and hope that won't be Kwesi's MO.
I just have to say it.

The Minnesota Vikings don’t care whether you or I are tired of how long it takes to sign rookies. So for me, I try not to get too worked up about things that, in the end, don’t matter all that much.

Also, it might not even be Kwesi’s role. Rob Brzezinski is EVP for Football Operations and is in charge of cap-related issues. For all we know, he might be the one doing the negotiating and getting final approval from KAM. Again, we don’t know the details.

VV, you don’t seem like the type to grasp for things to criticize (Lord knows we have plenty of people around here who do that on a daily basis). I guess I don’t understand why you seem to be so down on Kwesi. He hired Kevin O’Connell, who seems to give the Vikings offense and Kirk Cousins the best chance to succeed. What’s your issue with Kwesi?
I have no particular issues with Kwesi, but I'm on the fence about him. I wanted Harbaugh. I like the signing of Hicks in particular. According to the usual draft compensation for trading a #12 pick he got fleeced, but the results sure look good. I loved his sticking it to the Puke getting 2 second round picks for 1. I'm a little troubled about him drafting Asamoah because I think he could have let the shared Ghanaian heritage influence him. I hope it was someone else pounding the table for him as they say. I've made my feeling regarding signing draft picks known. As Stan M said "I look at rookie signings as a routine process. " So if it's routine than don't wait until the last minute just get it done. You point out there are some things that can make it less than routine, but I still think it's good to get it done in a timely manner rather than waiting until the last minute.
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Re: Vikings Training Camp 2022

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VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:40 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 8:14 am
I just have to say it.

The Minnesota Vikings don’t care whether you or I are tired of how long it takes to sign rookies. So for me, I try not to get too worked up about things that, in the end, don’t matter all that much.

Also, it might not even be Kwesi’s role. Rob Brzezinski is EVP for Football Operations and is in charge of cap-related issues. For all we know, he might be the one doing the negotiating and getting final approval from KAM. Again, we don’t know the details.

VV, you don’t seem like the type to grasp for things to criticize (Lord knows we have plenty of people around here who do that on a daily basis). I guess I don’t understand why you seem to be so down on Kwesi. He hired Kevin O’Connell, who seems to give the Vikings offense and Kirk Cousins the best chance to succeed. What’s your issue with Kwesi?
I have no particular issues with Kwesi, but I'm on the fence about him. I wanted Harbaugh. I like the signing of Hicks in particular. According to the usual draft compensation for trading a #12 pick he got fleeced, but the results sure look good. I loved his sticking it to the Puke getting 2 second round picks for 1. I'm a little troubled about him drafting Asamoah because I think he could have let the shared Ghanaian heritage influence him. I hope it was someone else pounding the table for him as they say. I've made my feeling regarding signing draft picks known. As Stan M said "I look at rookie signings as a routine process. " So if it's routine than don't wait until the last minute just get it done. You point out there are some things that can make it less than routine, but I still think it's good to get it done in a timely manner rather than waiting until the last minute.
I retired from an office career so agonizing over the administrative details is the last thing I would do. I don’t watch sports because I like the paperwork, I watch for the action and entertainment. For some reason there seems to be an eagerness to jump on KAM for things. We don’t know what held up negotiations but it was more likely to be on the player and agent side. If this had been about talented veteran free agents courted by other teams it might be more of an issue but what is a rookie going to do? Sit out and refuse to play for the team that drafted them? That is extremely rare and has a negative impact on the player more so than the teams.
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Re: Vikings Training Camp 2022

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StanM wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:24 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:40 am
I have no particular issues with Kwesi, but I'm on the fence about him. I wanted Harbaugh. I like the signing of Hicks in particular. According to the usual draft compensation for trading a #12 pick he got fleeced, but the results sure look good. I loved his sticking it to the Puke getting 2 second round picks for 1. I'm a little troubled about him drafting Asamoah because I think he could have let the shared Ghanaian heritage influence him. I hope it was someone else pounding the table for him as they say. I've made my feeling regarding signing draft picks known. As Stan M said "I look at rookie signings as a routine process. " So if it's routine than don't wait until the last minute just get it done. You point out there are some things that can make it less than routine, but I still think it's good to get it done in a timely manner rather than waiting until the last minute.
I retired from an office career so agonizing over the administrative details is the last thing I would do. I don’t watch sports because I like the paperwork, I watch for the action and entertainment. For some reason there seems to be an eagerness to jump on KAM for things. We don’t know what held up negotiations but it was more likely to be on the player and agent side. If this had been about talented veteran free agents courted by other teams it might be more of an issue but what is a rookie going to do? Sit out and refuse to play for the team that drafted them? That is extremely rare and has a negative impact on the player more so than the teams.
This is Kwesi's first go round with signing draft picks. He may have played it perfectly. The Vikings are routinely one of the very last teams to get their picks signed. As you said it's a routine process so once again if it is then get it over and done with. Don't drag it out. It's not that big a deal, but it's year after year after year with our Vikings.
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Re: Vikings Training Camp 2022

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StanM wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:24 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:40 am
I have no particular issues with Kwesi, but I'm on the fence about him. I wanted Harbaugh. I like the signing of Hicks in particular. According to the usual draft compensation for trading a #12 pick he got fleeced, but the results sure look good. I loved his sticking it to the Puke getting 2 second round picks for 1. I'm a little troubled about him drafting Asamoah because I think he could have let the shared Ghanaian heritage influence him. I hope it was someone else pounding the table for him as they say. I've made my feeling regarding signing draft picks known. As Stan M said "I look at rookie signings as a routine process. " So if it's routine than don't wait until the last minute just get it done. You point out there are some things that can make it less than routine, but I still think it's good to get it done in a timely manner rather than waiting until the last minute.
I retired from an office career so agonizing over the administrative details is the last thing I would do. I don’t watch sports because I like the paperwork, I watch for the action and entertainment. For some reason there seems to be an eagerness to jump on KAM for things. We don’t know what held up negotiations but it was more likely to be on the player and agent side. If this had been about talented veteran free agents courted by other teams it might be more of an issue but what is a rookie going to do? Sit out and refuse to play for the team that drafted them? That is extremely rare and has a negative impact on the player more so than the teams.
All we can do is speculate, so allow me to do that.

One reason could have been the offset language, as described in the Leigh Steinberg quote I posted. Andrew Booth has had an injury history. Let’s say those injuries resurface and he gets cut while he’s still got guaranteed money on the books. Now another team picks him up. If the language in his contract says the salary his new team pays him is subtracted from what the Vikings are required to pay him (the offset), then Booth loses money. His salary is set by the CBA, but offset parameters are negotiable.

I have no idea if that’s what happened. But it is a point of negotiation for a rookie, especially a first- or second-rounder who has some guaranteed money. Not so much for a sixth-rounder, who has none.

All this to say, we don’t know why it took until the day before training camp to get him signed — which to me means we shouldn’t wring our hands over it.

I’m far more interested in things like the report of Booth breaking up a pass intended for Imir Smith-Marsette, then trash talking him: “Don’t try getting physical with me!” That tells me that Booth has some Dawg in him, which I like!
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Re: Vikings Training Camp 2022

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J. Kapp 11 wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:17 pm
StanM wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:24 am

I retired from an office career so agonizing over the administrative details is the last thing I would do. I don’t watch sports because I like the paperwork, I watch for the action and entertainment. For some reason there seems to be an eagerness to jump on KAM for things. We don’t know what held up negotiations but it was more likely to be on the player and agent side. If this had been about talented veteran free agents courted by other teams it might be more of an issue but what is a rookie going to do? Sit out and refuse to play for the team that drafted them? That is extremely rare and has a negative impact on the player more so than the teams.
All we can do is speculate, so allow me to do that.

One reason could have been the offset language, as described in the Leigh Steinberg quote I posted. Andrew Booth has had an injury history. Let’s say those injuries resurface and he gets cut while he’s still got guaranteed money on the books. Now another team picks him up. If the language in his contract says the salary his new team pays him is subtracted from what the Vikings are required to pay him (the offset), then Booth loses money. His salary is set by the CBA, but offset parameters are negotiable.

I have no idea if that’s what happened. But it is a point of negotiation for a rookie, especially a first- or second-rounder who has some guaranteed money. Not so much for a sixth-rounder, who has none.

All this to say, we don’t know why it took until the day before training camp to get him signed — which to me means we shouldn’t wring our hands over it.

I’m far more interested in things like the report of Booth breaking up a pass intended for Imir Smith-Marsette, then trash talking him: “Don’t try getting physical with me!” That tells me that Booth has some Dawg in him, which I like!
I'm sure the reason it dragged out was because of the offset stuff. Why does it take until reporting day for us to work that out. Other teams have the same issues to work out and they get it done much more timely. I'm psyched for Booth. I'm psyched for all of the rookies. It's my nature.
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Re: Vikings Training Camp 2022

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VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:40 am
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 8:14 am
I just have to say it.

The Minnesota Vikings don’t care whether you or I are tired of how long it takes to sign rookies. So for me, I try not to get too worked up about things that, in the end, don’t matter all that much.

Also, it might not even be Kwesi’s role. Rob Brzezinski is EVP for Football Operations and is in charge of cap-related issues. For all we know, he might be the one doing the negotiating and getting final approval from KAM. Again, we don’t know the details.

VV, you don’t seem like the type to grasp for things to criticize (Lord knows we have plenty of people around here who do that on a daily basis). I guess I don’t understand why you seem to be so down on Kwesi. He hired Kevin O’Connell, who seems to give the Vikings offense and Kirk Cousins the best chance to succeed. What’s your issue with Kwesi?
I have no particular issues with Kwesi, but I'm on the fence about him. I wanted Harbaugh. I like the signing of Hicks in particular. According to the usual draft compensation for trading a #12 pick he got fleeced, but the results sure look good. I loved his sticking it to the Puke getting 2 second round picks for 1. I'm a little troubled about him drafting Asamoah because I think he could have let the shared Ghanaian heritage influence him. I hope it was someone else pounding the table for him as they say. I've made my feeling regarding signing draft picks known. As Stan M said "I look at rookie signings as a routine process. " So if it's routine than don't wait until the last minute just get it done. You point out there are some things that can make it less than routine, but I still think it's good to get it done in a timely manner rather than waiting until the last minute.
All good. I get it. Don’t agree about Harbaugh and really like KOC, but that’s neither here nor there.

The draft was … interesting. I’m a person who tries to give new people the benefit of the doubt, but that’s just me. I did it with Zimmer, with Frazier, even with Childress. All backfired on me, but that’s who I am. I’m doing the same with Kwesi. On the surface, the trade out of 12 didn’t make sense. But I also know that Kwesi believed the true value in this draft was in picks 25-75, so he loaded up there. Perfectly reasonable to disagree with that, but it definitely was his reasoning. Time will tell whether it was genius or stupidity.
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Re: Vikings Training Camp 2022

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J. Kapp 11 wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:29 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:40 am
I have no particular issues with Kwesi, but I'm on the fence about him. I wanted Harbaugh. I like the signing of Hicks in particular. According to the usual draft compensation for trading a #12 pick he got fleeced, but the results sure look good. I loved his sticking it to the Puke getting 2 second round picks for 1. I'm a little troubled about him drafting Asamoah because I think he could have let the shared Ghanaian heritage influence him. I hope it was someone else pounding the table for him as they say. I've made my feeling regarding signing draft picks known. As Stan M said "I look at rookie signings as a routine process. " So if it's routine than don't wait until the last minute just get it done. You point out there are some things that can make it less than routine, but I still think it's good to get it done in a timely manner rather than waiting until the last minute.
All good. I get it. Don’t agree about Harbaugh and really like KOC, but that’s neither here nor there.

The draft was … interesting. I’m a person who tries to give new people the benefit of the doubt, but that’s just me. I did it with Zimmer, with Frazier, even with Childress. All backfired on me, but that’s who I am. I’m doing the same with Kwesi. On the surface, the trade out of 12 didn’t make sense. But I also know that Kwesi believed the true value in this draft was in picks 25-75, so he loaded up there. Perfectly reasonable to disagree with that, but it definitely was his reasoning. Time will tell whether it was genius or stupidity.
We got 4 picks in that 25-75 range. More specifically in the 32-66 range. Considering there are 32 teams on average teams aren't making their 4th pick until pick #112. So if Kwesi is right he's waaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy ahead of that curve. We didn't make our first pick until 32 and we could have made it at 12. That's the price we paid.
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Re: Vikings Training Camp 2022

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J. Kapp 11 wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:29 pm But I also know that Kwesi believed the true value in this draft was in picks 25-75, so he loaded up there. Perfectly reasonable to disagree with that, but it definitely was his reasoning. Time will tell whether it was genius or stupidity.
Even if that was his reasoning, he should have done more to get more picks in that 25-75 range for dropping 20 spots in the 1st instead of getting just the one extra 3rd rounder and moving up in the 2nd (then immediately moving down again). He got a second just for moving down around 20 spots in the 2nd, so I hopefully he learned his lesson and this won't happen again. No damage done, as long as Williams is nothing special that is.
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Re: Vikings Training Camp 2022

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StumpHunter wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 6:58 am Mond is back working with the 3's after splitting time with Mannion at the 2's yesterday. Could be a rotational thing and Mond will be with the 2's today, but if he isn't, and Mond is the #3 QB once again this season, might as well stick a fork in him, cause he is done.
Mond did end up working with the 2's yesterday so a rotation is happening. Not sure what the point of that rotation is, Mannion is what he is at this point and if Mond is good enough to work with the 2's they should just let him and be done with Mannion.
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Re: Vikings Training Camp 2022

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Is there a scrimmage or first full pads scheduled for today? I think something is going on today.