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Yep, I am the one who is clearly obsessed. Why do you care that I responded to you if you aren't going to read it?VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:33 am I got a reply from Stump how surprising. He knows I don't read his replies, but he still constantly replies to me. I can't read his posts now, but I still know what they say and it's still annoying as hell. Who started this nonsense about where the QB must be in the top 20 players anyway. This is not a thread about Cousins. It's a thread to simply rank the players. Why does it get hijacked like this. Give Stump an opening an inch wide and he will hijack every thread and turn it into something about Kirk. He's freaking obsessed.
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A few reasons he COULD take steps forward this year.JJBreaksRecords wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:32 pmWhats Cousins done here or in WAS to make you feel that. High stats which are basically meaningless unless we win the big game? A lot of playoffs wins? Or do you think the rest of the team is that bad?J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:03 pm
OK this is probably going to come off as overly sensitive, but I have to ask …
Are you saying that if someone rates Kirk Cousins higher than the 10th-best player on his own team, then that person isn’t an objective observer?
I think it’s entirely reasonable for an objective observer to rate Kirk Cousins higher than 10th best on the Vikings. I certainly rank him higher than that, and I’m far from a Cousins apologist.
In addition, I believe that with an offense where the forward pass isn’t a last resort and is actually built to take advantage of Cousins’ strengths, we could see him take a pretty big step forward in 2022.
I would say that the best opportunity he had to prove he was capable of taking a team to the next level was when he joined a 13 win team a game away from the SB. Or when he was coached by the actual McVay and had a great group of WRs and great Oline in 2016. Both of those seasons resulted in 8 wins.J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:15 pm In order to make a playoff run, we need Kirk Cousins to play the best football of his career. If he's ever going to do it, this is the best opportunity he's had.
Fine. You've given up on the season, and apparently on the coach. Enjoy.StumpHunter wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:29 amI would say that the best opportunity he had to prove he was capable of taking a team to the next level was when he joined a 13 win team a game away from the SB. Or when he was coached by the actual McVay and had a great group of WRs and great Oline in 2016. Both of those seasons resulted in 8 wins.J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:15 pm In order to make a playoff run, we need Kirk Cousins to play the best football of his career. If he's ever going to do it, this is the best opportunity he's had.
Kirk has been at his best in 2019 when he had a defense and run game that didn't require him to do a lot. He needs heavy PA, one read, and being told exactly where to go with the football. Giving him multiple reads and progressions is a recipe for disaster and his EPA/P drops from .26 to -.07 when he goes from his first read to his second, the biggest drop of any QB in the entire NFL last season.
We don't actually know what O'Connell's offense will be, except that it sounds super complex and that he won't run the ball as much and that makes me very nervous. Kirk does not handle carrying a full load well, he is a below average QB when not running a lot of PA and the last time the Vikings tried complexity on offense he lined up under the guard. It sounds like we will already have a built in excuse for yet another year of failure at QB.
I think expecting a major change in Kirk's performance based on a change at coach is wishful thinking. His track record to this point doesn't suggest he's been held back by a lack of coaching or even talent around him. More than likely, Cousins will remain Cousins for yet another year, and if the Vikings improve it will largely be due to improvements in other areas of the team. To be fair, there are other areas of the team that could stand improvement, and KOC might be able to spark those improvements.StumpHunter wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:29 am We don't actually know what O'Connell's offense will be, except that it sounds super complex and that he won't run the ball as much and that makes me very nervous. Kirk does not handle carrying a full load well, he is a below average QB when not running a lot of PA and the last time the Vikings tried complexity on offense he lined up under the guard. It sounds like we will already have a built in excuse for yet another year of failure at QB.
Stump digging deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep for that one.J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:38 pmFine. You've given up on the season, and apparently on the coach. Enjoy.StumpHunter wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:29 am
I would say that the best opportunity he had to prove he was capable of taking a team to the next level was when he joined a 13 win team a game away from the SB. Or when he was coached by the actual McVay and had a great group of WRs and great Oline in 2016. Both of those seasons resulted in 8 wins.
Kirk has been at his best in 2019 when he had a defense and run game that didn't require him to do a lot. He needs heavy PA, one read, and being told exactly where to go with the football. Giving him multiple reads and progressions is a recipe for disaster and his EPA/P drops from .26 to -.07 when he goes from his first read to his second, the biggest drop of any QB in the entire NFL last season.
We don't actually know what O'Connell's offense will be, except that it sounds super complex and that he won't run the ball as much and that makes me very nervous. Kirk does not handle carrying a full load well, he is a below average QB when not running a lot of PA and the last time the Vikings tried complexity on offense he lined up under the guard. It sounds like we will already have a built in excuse for yet another year of failure at QB.
You are very correct that Cousins will not be the reason for improvement of the Vikings this year. He will continue his usual good to very good performance. Hunter and Z playing all year I would say is a guaranteed 10 wins and probably more. If Cine and Booth contribute even better. Improvement at C and RG will be important also.VikingLord wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:40 pmI think expecting a major change in Kirk's performance based on a change at coach is wishful thinking. His track record to this point doesn't suggest he's been held back by a lack of coaching or even talent around him. More than likely, Cousins will remain Cousins for yet another year, and if the Vikings improve it will largely be due to improvements in other areas of the team. To be fair, there are other areas of the team that could stand improvement, and KOC might be able to spark those improvements.StumpHunter wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:29 am We don't actually know what O'Connell's offense will be, except that it sounds super complex and that he won't run the ball as much and that makes me very nervous. Kirk does not handle carrying a full load well, he is a below average QB when not running a lot of PA and the last time the Vikings tried complexity on offense he lined up under the guard. It sounds like we will already have a built in excuse for yet another year of failure at QB.
But if the Vikings end up winning more than they lose, it will likely not be because Cousins improved. Cousins is what he is at this point in his career.
My hope for the upcoming season doesn't even have to do so much with a new head coach as it does the health of key players on both sides of the ball, but especially on the defensive side of the ball. If the Vikings can catch a break healthwise and not lose key players to extended injuries this season, that would be real reason for optimism. Regardless of who ranks where on the team, there is some serious talent on the team, and I'd like to see what they can do when they get contributions from all of those players.
Can you or anyone give an example of a good to very good QB play leading to missing the playoffs 3 of 4 seasons?VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:46 pmYou are very correct that Cousins will not be the reason for improvement of the Vikings this year. He will continue his usual good to very good performance. Hunter and Z playing all year I would say is a guaranteed 10 wins and who knows maybe more. If Cine and Booth contribute even better. Improvement at C and RG will be important also.VikingLord wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:40 pm
I think expecting a major change in Kirk's performance based on a change at coach is wishful thinking. His track record to this point doesn't suggest he's been held back by a lack of coaching or even talent around him. More than likely, Cousins will remain Cousins for yet another year, and if the Vikings improve it will largely be due to improvements in other areas of the team. To be fair, there are other areas of the team that could stand improvement, and KOC might be able to spark those improvements.
But if the Vikings end up winning more than they lose, it will likely not be because Cousins improved. Cousins is what he is at this point in his career.
My hope for the upcoming season doesn't even have to do so much with a new head coach as it does the health of key players on both sides of the ball, but especially on the defensive side of the ball. If the Vikings can catch a break healthwise and not lose key players to extended injuries this season, that would be real reason for optimism. Regardless of who ranks where on the team, there is some serious talent on the team, and I'd like to see what they can do when they get contributions from all of those players.
This was in response to a post where he talked about O'Connell's offense giving Cousins more reads. If that is true, doesn't knowing what the QB does when forced to make multiple reads important? For instance, Stafford has always been better going to his second read versus his primary and predictably excelled in an offense where he was given lots of options. Cousins isn't that guy.VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:42 pmStump digging deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep for that one.J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:38 pm
Fine. You've given up on the season, and apparently on the coach. Enjoy.
It's so enlightening to know who ranks where in EPA/P when going from first to second read. Isn't that the #1 most important QB stat. When the teams negotiate with the QBs for their next contracts and the team says we can't pay you more than $30 Million the QB and his agent pull out the trump card of their QB having the biggest gain in EPA/P when going from first to second read in the NFL. They can't accept a dime less than $40 million per year.
Man, even after supposedly ignoring Stump, hes almost all you talk about. You dig for the good stats all the time, why cant Stump?VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:42 pmStump digging deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep for that one.J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:38 pm
Fine. You've given up on the season, and apparently on the coach. Enjoy.
It's so enlightening to know who ranks where in EPA/P when going from first to second read. Isn't that the #1 most important QB stat. When the teams negotiate with the QBs for their next contracts and the team says we can't pay you more than $30 Million the QB and his agent pull out the trump card of their QB having the biggest gain in EPA/P when going from first to second read in the NFL. They can't accept a dime less than $40 million per year.
You don’t know that. You’re not an expert. I know that must come as a total shock to you, but you’re not.StumpHunter wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:56 amThis was in response to a post where he talked about O'Connell's offense giving Cousins more reads. If that is true, doesn't knowing what the QB does when forced to make multiple reads important? For instance, Stafford has always been better going to his second read versus his primary and predictably excelled in an offense where he was given lots of options. Cousins isn't that guy.VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:42 pm
Stump digging deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep for that one.
It's so enlightening to know who ranks where in EPA/P when going from first to second read. Isn't that the #1 most important QB stat. When the teams negotiate with the QBs for their next contracts and the team says we can't pay you more than $30 Million the QB and his agent pull out the trump card of their QB having the biggest gain in EPA/P when going from first to second read in the NFL. They can't accept a dime less than $40 million per year.
Yeah, the Vikings need good health, contributions from their two most recent draft classes, and better special teams play. They get that, they'll be much better even if Cousins plays at exactly the same level as he did last year.VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:46 pm You are very correct that Cousins will not be the reason for improvement of the Vikings this year. He will continue his usual good to very good performance. Hunter and Z playing all year I would say is a guaranteed 10 wins and probably more. If Cine and Booth contribute even better. Improvement at C and RG will be important also.