Top Tier QB's

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CharVike
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by CharVike »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:37 am
CharVike wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:25 am
It's the same stuff over and over. This has been covered. Since some feel Cousins can't throw a football I found this again. Deep passing is one of Cousins’ strongest skill sets. In the last four years, Cousins leads the NFL in completions of 25 yards or more (171 such completions). Tom Brady is the next-closest man to Cousins in this metric with 165. A player cannot humanly lead the league in a deep-ball passing parameter such as this – only to be panned as a small-ball or dink-and-dunk thrower of the football. It egregiously disregards common sense. A player can utilize checkdown valves but still heave the ball with success. In fact, good quarterbacks can handle both assignments.
QBs don't play as well against the better teams as they do stiffs. Even Brady the best ever plays worse against the top teams. I pullled the stats before. As for winning? Jimmy G has one of the best playoff records. I posted that before. Is he a great QB? Maybe so. We'll find out this year if he ever gets back in which could happen.
Coaching plays a role also. Last year for about a month Ham was the check down guy. That's a joke. We have other players. That was the great Kubesteak in action. Notice he is no longer a coach? Never will be either. He's rubbing balls in Denver now thanks to daddy. Him being an OC was a favor from Zim. No more than that.
Brilliant post.
Things keep getting rehashed. It's time to look forward. New staff with different schemes should bring some hope.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

A player cannot humanly lead the league in a deep-ball passing parameter such as this – only to be panned as a small-ball or dink-and-dunk thrower of the football. It egregiously disregards common sense.
I've been saying this same exact thing for forever now. Anyone that calls Cousins a Checkdown Charlie is simply a clueless football fan. It's just fans and the media trying to "put a knock on him" when there isnt one there. It's honestly sad at the attempts people make to prove someone isnt a good QB. I honestly dont even know where the Checkdown Charlie narrative came from. It's like fans heard other QBs called that so they were like "oh yeah, I hate Cousins so I'm going to call him that too" when in the end, they didnt have the slightest clue if he was or wasnt.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

CharVike wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:18 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:37 am
Brilliant post.
Things keep getting rehashed. It's time to look forward. New staff with different schemes should bring some hope.
Exactly. Instead its just the same old complainers....complaining
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by StumpHunter »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:30 am
A player cannot humanly lead the league in a deep-ball passing parameter such as this – only to be panned as a small-ball or dink-and-dunk thrower of the football. It egregiously disregards common sense.
I've been saying this same exact thing for forever now. Anyone that calls Cousins a Checkdown Charlie is simply a clueless football fan. It's just fans and the media trying to "put a knock on him" when there isnt one there. It's honestly sad at the attempts people make to prove someone isnt a good QB. I honestly dont even know where the Checkdown Charlie narrative came from. It's like fans heard other QBs called that so they were like "oh yeah, I hate Cousins so I'm going to call him that too" when in the end, they didnt have the slightest clue if he was or wasnt.
I posted the stats showing where that perception is coming from. Checking down on 3rd down more than most QBs, especially against better teams, is why Kirk has that moniker. People don't remember him throwing it 20 yards on 3rd and 7 against the Jags while they are up 20, they do remember him throwing it 3 yards on 3rd and 7 when down 7 against a winning team.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by VikingsVictorious »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:30 am
A player cannot humanly lead the league in a deep-ball passing parameter such as this – only to be panned as a small-ball or dink-and-dunk thrower of the football. It egregiously disregards common sense.
I've been saying this same exact thing for forever now. Anyone that calls Cousins a Checkdown Charlie is simply a clueless football fan. It's just fans and the media trying to "put a knock on him" when there isnt one there. It's honestly sad at the attempts people make to prove someone isnt a good QB. I honestly dont even know where the Checkdown Charlie narrative came from. It's like fans heard other QBs called that so they were like "oh yeah, I hate Cousins so I'm going to call him that too" when in the end, they didnt have the slightest clue if he was or wasnt.
Stump in an extremely deep dive provided some stats that I believe were made up by him. These stats explain where the checkdown Charlie narrative is coming from. I'm going to be watching him when he goes into deep dives from now on so he won't get away with posting made up stats in the future.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by JJBreaksRecords »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:06 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:30 am

I've been saying this same exact thing for forever now. Anyone that calls Cousins a Checkdown Charlie is simply a clueless football fan. It's just fans and the media trying to "put a knock on him" when there isnt one there. It's honestly sad at the attempts people make to prove someone isnt a good QB. I honestly dont even know where the Checkdown Charlie narrative came from. It's like fans heard other QBs called that so they were like "oh yeah, I hate Cousins so I'm going to call him that too" when in the end, they didnt have the slightest clue if he was or wasnt.
Stump in an extremely deep dive provided some stats that I believe were made up by him. These stats explain where the checkdown Charlie narrative is coming from. I'm going to be watching him when he goes into deep dives from now on so he won't get away with posting made up stats in the future.
So prove it. Quit saying Stump makes up stats and at least try to debunk them. You got to dig DEEEEEEEEEEEEP youself to have any credibility.
You and Percy must be the same person. Right? :govikes:
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by VikingsVictorious »

JJBreaksRecords wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:35 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:06 pm
Stump in an extremely deep dive provided some stats that I believe were made up by him. These stats explain where the checkdown Charlie narrative is coming from. I'm going to be watching him when he goes into deep dives from now on so he won't get away with posting made up stats in the future.
So prove it. Quit saying Stump makes up stats and at least try to debunk them. You got to dig DEEEEEEEEEEEEP youself to have any credibility.
You and Percy must be the same person. Right? :govikes:
JJ you can't prove that something doesn't exist. It's impossible. I understand accusing Stump of making up stats is a pretty serious accusation. That's why I called on Stump to back up his stats with some credible evidence. His stat of Cousins throwing past the sticks on 3rd down 74% of the time against losing teams but short of the sticks 65% of the time against winning teams seems made up. How do I prove it? I guess I could chart every 3rd down of every Vikings game and compare that to the opponents win loss record. Is it the teams final record at the end of the season that we count for winning team or is it the teams record at the time we played them? Nope I'm not going to dig that deep. As for Percy and I being the same person I contradicted him on an earlier post just today. Maybe I did that just to throw you off the track.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by phantom »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:06 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:30 am

I've been saying this same exact thing for forever now. Anyone that calls Cousins a Checkdown Charlie is simply a clueless football fan. It's just fans and the media trying to "put a knock on him" when there isnt one there. It's honestly sad at the attempts people make to prove someone isnt a good QB. I honestly dont even know where the Checkdown Charlie narrative came from. It's like fans heard other QBs called that so they were like "oh yeah, I hate Cousins so I'm going to call him that too" when in the end, they didnt have the slightest clue if he was or wasnt.
Stump in an extremely deep dive provided some stats that I believe were made up by him. These stats explain where the checkdown Charlie narrative is coming from. I'm going to be watching him when he goes into deep dives from now on so he won't get away with posting made up stats in the future.
If Cousins was the real deal we would have won the Super Bowl by now. Especially the first two season.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by CharVike »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:30 am
A player cannot humanly lead the league in a deep-ball passing parameter such as this – only to be panned as a small-ball or dink-and-dunk thrower of the football. It egregiously disregards common sense.
I've been saying this same exact thing for forever now. Anyone that calls Cousins a Checkdown Charlie is simply a clueless football fan. It's just fans and the media trying to "put a knock on him" when there isnt one there. It's honestly sad at the attempts people make to prove someone isnt a good QB. I honestly dont even know where the Checkdown Charlie narrative came from. It's like fans heard other QBs called that so they were like "oh yeah, I hate Cousins so I'm going to call him that too" when in the end, they didnt have the slightest clue if he was or wasnt.
They are longing for Joe Webb or Teddy or TJack or some other bum. I'm sure the haters think those 3 are better. I'm sure there is some future gen stat out there to prove it also. There was one showing how great bench warmer Teddy is. These analytical stats are nothing new. That has been going on since film study started. It's a nice buzz phrase in today's world. Dallas came up with new wrinkles like the shot gun. That wasn't a guess but analytical thinking. That happened in the 70s. We should just use the WAG method for decision making. That's just as effective.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by VikingsVictorious »

phantom wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:56 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:06 pm
Stump in an extremely deep dive provided some stats that I believe were made up by him. These stats explain where the checkdown Charlie narrative is coming from. I'm going to be watching him when he goes into deep dives from now on so he won't get away with posting made up stats in the future.
If Cousins was the real deal we would have won the Super Bowl by now. Especially the first two season.
What do you mean by real deal? There are lots of very good QBs who have not won the Super Bowl over the last 4 seasons. Hopefully we do it this season.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by fiestavike »

Kirk will have another chance to prove it this year. So far he is a middling QB with some great strengths and some glaring weaknesses. I hope he improves or the system fits him better or something leads to better results. I think you need to game plan around Kirk more than you would some other QBs if you want to get the best out of him. Hopefully Kevin O'callahan can do that.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by phantom »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:18 pm
phantom wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:56 pm

If Cousins was the real deal we would have won the Super Bowl by now. Especially the first two season.
What do you mean by real deal? There are lots of very good QBs who have not won the Super Bowl over the last 4 seasons. Hopefully we do it this season.
Guys like Wilson and Mahomes are the real deal to me. Kirks the only QB I know of in the last 4 years to get a team that just went to the NFC Championship game and was consider a Super Bowl favorite his 1st year. We went from contender to pretender. That's what great players do. They make a good team average (sarcasm)
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by StumpHunter »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:47 pm I guess I could chart every 3rd down of every Vikings game and compare that to the opponents win loss record. Is it the teams final record at the end of the season that we count for winning team or is it the teams record at the time we played them? Nope I'm not going to dig that deep.
The great thing is, you don't have to do all of that, because someone else already did and I provided you with the numbers they found.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by VikingLord »

I think it is worth saying that Kirk's overall performance is probably good enough to get the Vikings into contention provided the defense and special teams are better and the Vikings stay healthy.

Is it enough to get them over the top? I'm not sure about that, because at the very top the difference between the winner and loser is exceedingly small, so any flaws or weaknesses will be magnified, but no QB wins without a solid team around him and no team wins without solid play from the QB in crunch time.

As Warner pointed out, Cousins can do better, and I'm sure Kirk would agree with that. Warner's observations and criticisms are valid. So this is the season where Cousins can show he understands when he's in those situations that might have gotten under his skin before and rise above them this time. If he can do that, the sky should be the limit for this Vikings team. If he can't, then I like their chances of making the playoffs, but not necessarily their chances of winning the Superbowl.

On a slightly different note, this is the first season in a long time where I can honestly say I'm excited about the team, mostly because there are so many unknowns right now and the team is brimming with talent. For most of the Zimmer years I thought they had some talent, but serious flaws as well. This year they seem pretty strong all around. The potential for a really good or even great season seems to be there, and I get that sense even with Cousins because I really do think KOC was an ideal choice to coach him and the offense.

I've just got a feeling about this year.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by VikingsVictorious »

phantom wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 2:57 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:18 pm
What do you mean by real deal? There are lots of very good QBs who have not won the Super Bowl over the last 4 seasons. Hopefully we do it this season.
Guys like Wilson and Mahomes are the real deal to me. Kirks the only QB I know of in the last 4 years to get a team that just went to the NFC Championship game and was consider a Super Bowl favorite his 1st year. We went from contender to pretender. That's what great players do. They make a good team average (sarcasm)
So since our team was really good one year it's supposed to be better the next year with Kirk. I get hoping that, but Kirk from everything I saw played pretty well, but as a whole we were mediocre. I would say he was more part of the solution than the problem.