Top Tier QB's

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vikeinmontana
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by vikeinmontana »

JJBreaksRecords wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:04 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:32 am Judge Sue Robinson has determined a 6 game suspension for Deshaun Watson. I'm wondering what makes her believe she is qualified to determine his suspension. I'd guess she thinks it's her law degree. The NFL is appealing wanting to make it the entire season.

RealGM Wiretap
NFL Appeals Deshaun Watson's Six-Game Suspension
AUG 3, 2022 3:58 PM


The NFL has filed an appeal of the six-game suspension given to Deshaun Watson by Judge Sue L. Robinson.

Robinson found Watson guilty of violating the NFL's personal conduct policy from his allegations of sexual misconduct. The NFL proposed suspending Watson for the entire 2022 season and that he not be permitted to return until he satisfied certain conditions for reinstatement.

The Cleveland Browns acquired Watson via trade in the offseason.

REALGM STAFF REPORT
I really hope its at least a season, and a huge fine as well. The NFL can save a little face that way
Agreed. It's a very poor look when a guy can be suspended an entire season for sports betting but a guy facing these kinds of accusations gets a third of a season. :confused:
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VikingsVictorious
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by VikingsVictorious »

vikeinmontana wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:13 am
JJBreaksRecords wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:04 am

I really hope its at least a season, and a huge fine as well. The NFL can save a little face that way
Agreed. It's a very poor look when a guy can be suspended an entire season for sports betting but a guy facing these kinds of accusations gets a third of a season. :confused:
I think a guy should be considered innocent until proven guilty, but in the case of pay offs they should be considered an admission of at least some guilt for the purpose of league disciplinary actions
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by VikingLord »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:32 am Judge Sue Robinson has determined a 6 game suspension for Deshaun Watson. I'm wondering what makes her believe she is qualified to determine his suspension. I'd guess she thinks it's her law degree. The NFL is appealing wanting to make it the entire season.
I think what makes her qualified is the fact the NFL and NFL Players Association agreed to use an arbitrator to decide punishments for players under the collective bargaining agreement. Both agreed to her being that arbitrator. What she decides goes, and any notion the NFL can go to court to override her decision is fantasy unless they can prove she was not impartial or the process was otherwise flawed. Even if the NFL could prove that, all a court would likely do is appoint a different arbitrator or tell the NFL and the Players Association to choose someone else.

No way the NFL will get it changed. If they don't want a repeat of this in the future, they'll have to get the Players Association to agree to it in the next CBA.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

VikingLord wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:23 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:32 am Judge Sue Robinson has determined a 6 game suspension for Deshaun Watson. I'm wondering what makes her believe she is qualified to determine his suspension. I'd guess she thinks it's her law degree. The NFL is appealing wanting to make it the entire season.
I think what makes her qualified is the fact the NFL and NFL Players Association agreed to use an arbitrator to decide punishments for players under the collective bargaining agreement. Both agreed to her being that arbitrator. What she decides goes, and any notion the NFL can go to court to override her decision is fantasy unless they can prove she was not impartial or the process was otherwise flawed. Even if the NFL could prove that, all a court would likely do is appoint a different arbitrator or tell the NFL and the Players Association to choose someone else.

No way the NFL will get it changed. If they don't want a repeat of this in the future, they'll have to get the Players Association to agree to it in the next CBA.
Actually, the NFL does not have the authority under the CBA to re-litigate the facts or to question the factual determinations. The only question they can raise is whether the punishment is appropriate, given the facts.

According to legal experts (definitely NOT me), the opportunity is there for the commissioner to question whether the punishment was sufficient, given the severity of the conduct that was alleged and proven. And there is a clear path for the commissioner, as articulated in the CBA, to increase the suspension.

The problem is that if the league increases the punishment, then the Players Association will sue. It will end up in court, and Watson will likely end up playing the entire season because it won't be adjudicated before the season is over.

Basically, it's a mess. If I had to guess, the league will try to increase the suspension, the Players Association will challenge, and Watson will play Week 1.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by JJBreaksRecords »

NFL stars can do no harm. Or at least get charged with it, and a just punishment given out.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

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J. Kapp 11 wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:02 pm According to legal experts (definitely NOT me), the opportunity is there for the commissioner to question whether the punishment was sufficient, given the severity of the conduct that was alleged and proven. And there is a clear path for the commissioner, as articulated in the CBA, to increase the suspension.

The problem is that if the league increases the punishment, then the Players Association will sue. It will end up in court, and Watson will likely end up playing the entire season because it won't be adjudicated before the season is over.

Basically, it's a mess. If I had to guess, the league will try to increase the suspension, the Players Association will challenge, and Watson will play Week 1.
I thought the whole reason the fines and suspension clauses of the CBA were adjusted to use an arbitrator was to remove the sole discretion of the commissioner to determine punishments, but if you say the commissioner still can alter the punishment unilaterally (or at least try to pending formal legal action by the Players Association), I'll take you at your word. It seems silly to use an arbitrator at all if the commissioner still gets the final word on punishments.

The league and the Players need to find a way to put this type of situation to bed once and for all in the future. I've always thought a commission of NFL owners and players (current or former) could be used to decide punishments for violations of the CBA, both for player misconduct as well as team or owner misconduct. It's always dicey to leave decisions like these up to the whims of a single person regardless of who that person is.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by VikingsVictorious »

I just found out that DeShaun Watson's suspension is now 11 games and a $5Million fine. Do we all think that's about right or is it too lenient. The suspension itself costs him almost nothing. All the salary is for next year.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by VikingsVictorious »

Kurt Warner breakdown on Kirk Cousins. One of the best film breakdowns I've seen.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:30 pm Kurt Warner breakdown on Kirk Cousins. One of the best film breakdowns I've seen.
Really interesting.

I'm also looking forward to hearing Warner's take in the next video on what Cousins needs to work on. That will give us fans something to watch for during the season.

Thanks for posting.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

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VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:30 pm Kurt Warner breakdown on Kirk Cousins. One of the best film breakdowns I've seen.
Thanks for posting that.

I like Warner's commentary and observations. He knows how hard those throws are to see and to make, and the fact he's pointing out how Cousins can see and make them is encouraging.

My only additional comment is that while Cousins can play better in some situations, I think whether the Vikings make the playoffs and/or do anything in the playoffs this year is going to come down more to defensive improvements over what we saw the last two years under Zimmer along with better and more consistent special teams play. I think if the defense can crack the top 15 and special teams executes better, even if Cousins does exactly what he's done the last two years and the offense overall does the same the Vikings should make the playoffs and maybe even win a game or two.

To get to and have a realistic chance of winning a Superbowl this year, everyone including Cousins has to up their game, which I'm hopeful they all will. I'd like to see Cousins finally put it all together and have that magical year he seems to be on the cusp of every season. Maybe KOC can finally put him in position to accomplish that.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by VikingsVictorious »

VikingLord wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:22 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:30 pm Kurt Warner breakdown on Kirk Cousins. One of the best film breakdowns I've seen.
Thanks for posting that.

I like Warner's commentary and observations. He knows how hard those throws are to see and to make, and the fact he's pointing out how Cousins can see and make them is encouraging.

My only additional comment is that while Cousins can play better in some situations, I think whether the Vikings make the playoffs and/or do anything in the playoffs this year is going to come down more to defensive improvements over what we saw the last two years under Zimmer along with better and more consistent special teams play. I think if the defense can crack the top 15 and special teams executes better, even if Cousins does exactly what he's done the last two years and the offense overall does the same the Vikings should make the playoffs and maybe even win a game or two.

To get to and have a realistic chance of winning a Superbowl this year, everyone including Cousins has to up their game, which I'm hopeful they all will. I'd like to see Cousins finally put it all together and have that magical year he seems to be on the cusp of every season. Maybe KOC can finally put him in position to accomplish that.
I absolutely 100% agree with the bolded above and the good news is as long as Hunter plays the D is already improved. I also believe Kirk and the offense can and will play better. Maybe I seem too optimistic, but that is the way i see it.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by StumpHunter »

VikingLord wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:22 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:30 pm Kurt Warner breakdown on Kirk Cousins. One of the best film breakdowns I've seen.
Thanks for posting that.

I like Warner's commentary and observations. He knows how hard those throws are to see and to make, and the fact he's pointing out how Cousins can see and make them is encouraging.

My only additional comment is that while Cousins can play better in some situations, I think whether the Vikings make the playoffs and/or do anything in the playoffs this year is going to come down more to defensive improvements over what we saw the last two years under Zimmer along with better and more consistent special teams play. I think if the defense can crack the top 15 and special teams executes better, even if Cousins does exactly what he's done the last two years and the offense overall does the same the Vikings should make the playoffs and maybe even win a game or two.

To get to and have a realistic chance of winning a Superbowl this year, everyone including Cousins has to up their game, which I'm hopeful they all will. I'd like to see Cousins finally put it all together and have that magical year he seems to be on the cusp of every season. Maybe KOC can finally put him in position to accomplish that.
The Vikings were 16th overall defensively last year according to DVOA and didn't really sniff the playoffs.

This year they have the most talented defense they have had since 2018 when they were top 3 if everyone stays healthy, and unlike 2021, they are starting mostly starting quality players on defense. Huge upgrades at both edge rusher spots, and not downgrading anywhere else should make the D top 10 and anything less than that will be disappointing.

Can Cousins take a top 10 defense to the playoffs? He is 50/50 on that in his career but with the expanded playoffs and what appears to be a weak NFC, he would have to play really poorly not to.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by IIsweet »

Did anyone else notice just how good the college QBs looked this past weekend?
I said it before, there are A LOT of QBs in this next 2023 draft.
I would be extremely happy with a handful of those guys as our next QB of the future.
With JJ and some of our better due big raises, we may need to get that QB on the cheap.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:30 pm Kurt Warner breakdown on Kirk Cousins. One of the best film breakdowns I've seen.
Excellent breakdown. Always been a Warner fan. Funny thing is, there will be a few on here that wont even bother watching that because it doesnt fit their narrative about Cousins.
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Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by VikingLord »

StumpHunter wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:19 am The Vikings were 16th overall defensively last year according to DVOA and didn't really sniff the playoffs.
Depends on how you define sniff the playoffs. A missed kick here, a botched fumble call there, an improbable desperation drive by a bad team to win a game the Vikings offense had wrapped up and they make the playoffs. Doesn't make them a great team by any means, but if just a few breaks went their way instead of against them, they sniff the playoffs.
StumpHunter wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:19 am Can Cousins take a top 10 defense to the playoffs? He is 50/50 on that in his career but with the expanded playoffs and what appears to be a weak NFC, he would have to play really poorly not to.
Well, if he can't then he doesn't deserve the money he's being paid and the Vikings really need to move on. He's got a stacked offense to work with behind what should be a much improved offensive line, the defense and special teams both look much improved as well, and the head coach is a former NFL QB who should be able to put Cousins in the best position to succeed he's been in since joining the Vikings (and maybe ever in his career for that matter). Cousins has everything lined up. The breaks are still going to matter. His health and the health of the rest of the team is still going to matter. But if we're ever going to see Cousins break out and have that year we all hope he can have, this should be the year. This is the year he will prove whether the rep he's gotten over the years is justified.