Top Tier QB's

A forum for the hard core Minnesota Vikings fan. Discuss upcoming games, opponents, trades, draft or what ever is on the minds of Viking fans!

Moderator: Moderators

StumpHunter
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3428
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:55 am
x 587

Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by StumpHunter »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:51 pm
phantom wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 6:43 pm

No your completely delusional, and believe your own lies.
In what world was Stafford ever better than Cousins other than last year maybe. Don't call my beliefs based on pretty much all evidence delusions or lies. Go back and check the stats and the results. If you'd like we can check the w/l record and stats year by year by year. All you can do about that is say "well the Lions suck". That's the only thing you could hang your hat on. You're being very rude and nasty here based on absolutely nothing.
This world. That has Stafford ahead of Kirk in every QB ranking. Are all these reporters, from EVERY sports coverage site anti Kirk too?

More playoff wins, SB wins and more 40+ TD seasons. Stafford's EPA/P consistently beats Cousins each year, as does his BTT% and ADOT.
All evidence that Stafford was a good QB held back by the talent around him, something Kirk has never really experienced.
User avatar
phantom
Backup
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:40 pm
x 5

Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by phantom »

StumpHunter wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:48 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:51 pm
In what world was Stafford ever better than Cousins other than last year maybe. Don't call my beliefs based on pretty much all evidence delusions or lies. Go back and check the stats and the results. If you'd like we can check the w/l record and stats year by year by year. All you can do about that is say "well the Lions suck". That's the only thing you could hang your hat on. You're being very rude and nasty here based on absolutely nothing.
This world. That has Stafford ahead of Kirk in every QB ranking. Are all these reporters, from EVERY sports coverage site anti Kirk too?

More playoff wins, SB wins and more 40+ TD seasons. Stafford's EPA/P consistently beats Cousins each year, as does his BTT% and ADOT.
All evidence that Stafford was a good QB held back by the talent around him, something Kirk has never really experienced.

Hypothetically If you have a QB that throws for 3800 yrds, 5 TD's an 5 Int. He looks terrible on the QB rating. But if the team can win 35-10 the majority of the time and he leads his team down for TD's. and wins 12 or more games that way, and hopefully a Super Bowl win. I would say you have a good team and a QB. Kirk gets empty calorie stats. 8-7-1 after getting a Super Bowl contender not exactly an upgrade. Your the rude one who called people delusional. .500 yeah what a let down.
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3164
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 625

Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by VikingsVictorious »

phantom wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:15 am
StumpHunter wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:48 am
This world. That has Stafford ahead of Kirk in every QB ranking. Are all these reporters, from EVERY sports coverage site anti Kirk too?

More playoff wins, SB wins and more 40+ TD seasons. Stafford's EPA/P consistently beats Cousins each year, as does his BTT% and ADOT.
All evidence that Stafford was a good QB held back by the talent around him, something Kirk has never really experienced.

Hypothetically If you have a QB that throws for 3800 yrds, 5 TD's an 5 Int. He looks terrible on the QB rating. But if the team can win 35-10 the majority of the time and he leads his team down for TD's. and wins 12 or more games that way, and hopefully a Super Bowl win. I would say you have a good team and a QB. Kirk gets empty calorie stats. 8-7-1 after getting a Super Bowl contender not exactly an upgrade. Your the rude one who called people delusional. .500 yeah what a let down.
LMAO Stump taking one of his Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepest dives ever to come up with stats that have Stafford ahead of Kirk, and you reposting it. LMAO is all I can say. First of all I said maybe last year Stafford was better. I hadn't looked at that yet, but in his rebuttal to me he used last year for 40 TD season, playoff and Super Bowl wins, which is also worthless because QBs don't win games. Teams do. Let's go to every year since Cousins became a starter. Check W/L since you want to put that on the QB not me, Comp %, yardage, TDs, Int, Y/A, Rating, and QBR you know the normal real stats that show up on the first page of Pro Football Reference. Add up how many times Cousins was better vs how many times Stafford was better. Cousins wins 30-19. Not counting last year the count in Cousins favor is 28-14. Wins and Losses were nowhere to be found on the QB stats page. More proof that QBs don't win games teams do. However, unofficially Kirk has a record of 61-62 and Stafford has a record of 86-95.Stafford is a good QB. Similar to Kirk in many ways, but not quite as good.

I didn't call JJ delusional. I called the idea that QBs win games delusional. QBs don't win games. Teams do.
Last edited by VikingsVictorious on Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9305
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 1576

Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

Man, the temperature in the VMB house goes up about 30 degrees whenever Kirk Cousins is the center of conversation.

I will try to be level-headed here and go back to what I said earlier.

We've argued for four years about what kind of quarterback Kirk Cousins is. But hopefully everyone agrees that he has areas he could improve upon. I mean, Tom Brady has areas he could improve upon, so certainly Cousins does.

So ... IF Kirk Cousins is going to make a leap, IF he's going to become a Tier 1 quarterback (fully recognizing that some people feel he already is), THIS is his best chance.

Why? Because virtually all the things that his supporters say have held him back are gone.

• He wasn't wanted in Washington, at least not by ownership. Since the Vikings just extended Cousins, I'd say they want him.
• Mike Zimmer, whom Ben Leber says hated him, is gone, replaced by a coach who apparently loves him.
• His head coach is a sharp offensive mind and a former quarterback who will work closely with Cousins.
• His OC, Wes Phillips, is also regarded as an up-and-coming offensive mind.
• His offensive line, while not as good as he had in Washington, should be improved.
• He's got weapons galore at the skill positions — including guys like Nwangwu, Smith-Marsette, Nailor, and Chandler, guys we don't know much about, but who have the talent to break through.
• He's supported by one of the best running backs in the game.

Given all the advantages Cousins has going into 2022, he SHOULD have the best season of his career. If he doesn't, then IMO even Cousins' most ardent supporters will have to admit that maybe it's not everybody else's fault.

However, that does NOT mean the Vikings are going to make a deep playoff run. There are still a ton of question marks for this team, especially on defense. But barring a slew of injuries, the offense shouldn't be the biggest issue. If the offense struggles, I'd say the chances of Cousins getting extended again are pretty slim.
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.
User avatar
phantom
Backup
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:40 pm
x 5

Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by phantom »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:46 am
phantom wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:15 am
LMAO Stump taking one of his Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepest dives ever to come up with stats that have Stafford ahead of Kirk, and you reposting it. LMAO is all I can say. Let's go to every year the two of them have been in the league. Check W/L, yardage, TDs, Int, QBR you know the normal real stats. Add up how many times Cousins was better vs how many times Stafford was better. I didn't call JJ delusional. I called the idea that QBs win games delusional. QBs don't win games. Teams do.
Yeah that's why Denver got way better when Manning got there. 8-8 to a top seed. Brady to Bucs (super bowl). Heck Farve to MN and Rice is all pro all of the sudden and a much better season. Same team with better results because of QB play. QB have the biggest influence on the game in any other sport. So W-L are more of a reflection of there ability to play QB at the NFL level. dime of dozen with physical skills.
J. Kapp 11
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9305
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:57 pm
x 1576

Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by J. Kapp 11 »

phantom wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:14 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:46 am

Yeah that's why Denver got way better when Manning got there. 8-8 to a top seed. Brady to Bucs (super bowl). Heck Farve to MN and Rice is all pro all of the sudden and a much better season. Same team with better results because of QB play. QB have the biggest influence on the game in any other sport. So W-L are more of a reflection of there ability to play QB at the NFL level. dime of dozen with physical skills.
Y'all need to fix your quotes. I can't tell who's saying what!
Image
Go ahead. I dare you.
Underestimate this man.
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3164
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 625

Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by VikingsVictorious »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:16 pm
phantom wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:14 pm
Y'all need to fix your quotes. I can't tell who's saying what!
I'll try to fix my quotes. I don't know how they got out of whack. However, Since you are a very smart man I get you can figure out who said what.
I went back to try to fix it, but I saw no way to do it.
User avatar
VikingsVictorious
Hall of Fame Candidate
Posts: 3164
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 7:27 pm
x 625

Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by VikingsVictorious »

phantom wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:14 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:46 am

Yeah that's why Denver got way better when Manning got there. 8-8 to a top seed. Brady to Bucs (super bowl). Heck Farve to MN and Rice is all pro all of the sudden and a much better season. Same team with better results because of QB play. QB have the biggest influence on the game in any other sport. So W-L are more of a reflection of there ability to play QB at the NFL level. dime of dozen with physical skills.
I provided the numbers. Kirk comes out ahead of Stafford and quite easily. Since you like W/L and consider W/L to be on the QB Cousins comes out well ahead in that stat also. Once again my statement shows up as Phantom's. I have no idea why that's happening. I have to believe it's a site problem.
User avatar
phantom
Backup
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:40 pm
x 5

Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by phantom »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:31 pm
phantom wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:14 pm
I provided the numbers. Kirk comes out ahead of Stafford and quite easily. Since you like W/L and consider W/L to be on the QB Cousins comes out well ahead in that stat also. Once again my statement shows up as Phantom's. I have no idea why that's happening. I have to believe it's a site problem.
Stafford took over a 0-16 team, big difference from taking over a 13-3 Super Bowl contender. Cousins and Cousins Camp got faced when Stafford got a Super Bowl contender an won the 1st year. One of the desired and expected results when Cousins got here. He could run the Offense better and keep the ball rolling. He got everything he wanted for X-mas in 2018.
User avatar
phantom
Backup
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:40 pm
x 5

Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by phantom »

phantom wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:19 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:31 pm

Stafford took over a 0-16 team, big difference from taking over a 13-3 Super Bowl contender. Cousins and Cousins Camp got faced when Stafford got a Super Bowl contender an won the 1st year. One of the desired and expected results when Cousins got here.
He couldn't run the Offense better and keep the ball rolling. He got everything he wanted for X-mas in 2018 and didn't perform. So he is just more like Cutler. Free Agent flop. Kirk is for Kirk (Stephen A. ESPN analyst from WA.) I guess we missed the warning signs.
JJBreaksRecords
Starter
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:22 pm
x 13

Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by JJBreaksRecords »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:46 am
phantom wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:15 am
LMAO Stump taking one of his Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepest dives ever to come up with stats that have Stafford ahead of Kirk, and you reposting it. LMAO is all I can say. First of all I said maybe last year Stafford was better. I hadn't looked at that yet, but in his rebuttal to me he used last year for 40 TD season, playoff and Super Bowl wins, which is also worthless because QBs don't win games. Teams do. Let's go to every year since Cousins became a starter. Check W/L since you want to put that on the QB not me, Comp %, yardage, TDs, Int, Y/A, Rating, and QBR you know the normal real stats that show up on the first page of Pro Football Reference. Add up how many times Cousins was better vs how many times Stafford was better. Cousins wins 30-19. Not counting last year the count in Cousins favor is 28-14. Wins and Losses were nowhere to be found on the QB stats page. More proof that QBs don't win games teams do. However, unofficially Kirk has a record of 61-62 and Stafford has a record of 86-95.Stafford is a good QB. Similar to Kirk in many ways, but not quite as good.

I didn't call JJ delusional. I called the idea that QBs win games delusional. QBs don't win games. Teams do.
I have seen a lot of Viking homers before. Theres even those that try and project everything, their anger, right back, thinking that makes a valid argument. Congrats VV, you are more of one than PA. At least he gets paid for it.

Have to remember to proofread.*
Last edited by JJBreaksRecords on Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JJBreaksRecords
Starter
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:22 pm
x 13

Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by JJBreaksRecords »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:16 pm
phantom wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:14 pm
Y'all need to fix your quotes. I can't tell who's saying what!
I am having that problem too. Did the Mods change something?
JJBreaksRecords
Starter
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:22 pm
x 13

Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by JJBreaksRecords »

J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:13 pm Man, the temperature in the VMB house goes up about 30 degrees whenever Kirk Cousins is the center of conversation.

I will try to be level-headed here and go back to what I said earlier.

We've argued for four years about what kind of quarterback Kirk Cousins is. But hopefully everyone agrees that he has areas he could improve upon. I mean, Tom Brady has areas he could improve upon, so certainly Cousins does.

So ... IF Kirk Cousins is going to make a leap, IF he's going to become a Tier 1 quarterback (fully recognizing that some people feel he already is), THIS is his best chance.

Why? Because virtually all the things that his supporters say have held him back are gone.

• He wasn't wanted in Washington, at least not by ownership. Since the Vikings just extended Cousins, I'd say they want him.
• Mike Zimmer, whom Ben Leber says hated him, is gone, replaced by a coach who apparently loves him.
• His head coach is a sharp offensive mind and a former quarterback who will work closely with Cousins.
• His OC, Wes Phillips, is also regarded as an up-and-coming offensive mind.
• His offensive line, while not as good as he had in Washington, should be improved.
• He's got weapons galore at the skill positions — including guys like Nwangwu, Smith-Marsette, Nailor, and Chandler, guys we don't know much about, but who have the talent to break through.
• He's supported by one of the best running backs in the game.

Excellent post. Its rare I agree with almost every single line. :appl:
Given all the advantages Cousins has going into 2022, he SHOULD have the best season of his career. If he doesn't, then IMO even Cousins' most ardent supporters will have to admit that maybe it's not everybody else's fault.

However, that does NOT mean the Vikings are going to make a deep playoff run. There are still a ton of question marks for this team, especially on defense. But barring a slew of injuries, the offense shouldn't be the biggest issue. If the offense struggles, I'd say the chances of Cousins getting extended again are pretty slim.
JJBreaksRecords
Starter
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:22 pm
x 13

Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by JJBreaksRecords »

Wow, quoting some just isnt working.

I said Kapp's post was excellent, concise, and articulate. Not sure I could argue any point he made.
User avatar
phantom
Backup
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:40 pm
x 5

Re: Top Tier QB's

Post by phantom »

JJBreaksRecords wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:04 pm
J. Kapp 11 wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:13 pm Man, the temperature in the VMB house goes up about 30 degrees whenever Kirk Cousins is the center of conversation.

I will try to be level-headed here and go back to what I said earlier.

We've argued for four years about what kind of quarterback Kirk Cousins is. But hopefully everyone agrees that he has areas he could improve upon. I mean, Tom Brady has areas he could improve upon, so certainly Cousins does.

So ... IF Kirk Cousins is going to make a leap, IF he's going to become a Tier 1 quarterback (fully recognizing that some people feel he already is), THIS is his best chance.

Why? Because virtually all the things that his supporters say have held him back are gone.

• He wasn't wanted in Washington, at least not by ownership. Since the Vikings just extended Cousins, I'd say they want him.
• Mike Zimmer, whom Ben Leber says hated him, is gone, replaced by a coach who apparently loves him.
• His head coach is a sharp offensive mind and a former quarterback who will work closely with Cousins.
• His OC, Wes Phillips, is also regarded as an up-and-coming offensive mind.
• His offensive line, while not as good as he had in Washington, should be improved.
• He's got weapons galore at the skill positions — including guys like Nwangwu, Smith-Marsette, Nailor, and Chandler, guys we don't know much about, but who have the talent to break through.
• He's supported by one of the best running backs in the game.

Excellent post. Its rare I agree with almost every single line. :appl:
Given all the advantages Cousins has going into 2022, he SHOULD have the best season of his career. If he doesn't, then IMO even Cousins' most ardent supporters will have to admit that maybe it's not everybody else's fault.

However, that does NOT mean the Vikings are going to make a deep playoff run. There are still a ton of question marks for this team, especially on defense. But barring a slew of injuries, the offense shouldn't be the biggest issue. If the offense struggles, I'd say the chances of Cousins getting extended again are pretty slim.
There's obviously something wrong with the website. People are getting quoted wrong