Top Tier QB's

[StumpHunter]

Cousins goes to a 13 win team a game away from the SB with a backup QB and the team gets worse and misses the playoffs. Stafford goes to a 10 win team that got knocked out in the divisional round with Cousins level QB, and the team gets much better and makes the SB.

Stafford is not a perfect QB and even with the Rams he had his Stafford moments, but unlike Cousins, he is not consistently bad against every good D/team he faces. He has the potential to be great when his team needs him to be great, versus Cousins who just does not have that 2nd gear to take his game to the next level when it is needed.

That is why Cousins is a tier 4 QB and why GMs when asked about trading for him laughed, while Stafford got 2 1sts and a serviceable starter in a trade.

The Rams gave up over 30 points in 3 games and Stafford didn't shift into 2nd gear. They lost all 3. Our great D team gave up over 30 6 times, which is pathetic, and we won 1 of those games. Neither QB was great when their team gave up +30. Stafford didn't step up at all. He didn't want it and gave up every time. Didn't feel like digging deep.

Who is talking about winning the SB with last year's team? I don't believe Stafford could have won it with the 2021 Vikings team, but he would have at least made the season more entertaining. Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers, Wilson or Allen might have made the 2021 a SB team, but I am talking about that 2018 team, whose D gave up 30+ points exactly once. Which is 1 less than the SB winning Ram's D gave up this past season.

As for digging deep:

One QB is capable of winning a game when his team gives up more than 35 points, one has never done it once in his entire career.

Forget the tier stuff and just say we can't win because Cousins sucks. This new GM we have can't be to bright himself. He just extended him. I thought the guy was a genius. I guess not.

He was pretty smart to not go beyond one year with the extension likely forced on him by ownership's unwillingness to bottom out. A huge vote of confidence in the QB don't you think?

[CharVike]

The Rams gave up over 30 points in 3 games and Stafford didn't shift into 2nd gear. They lost all 3. Our great D team gave up over 30 6 times, which is pathetic, and we won 1 of those games. Neither QB was great when their team gave up +30. Stafford didn't step up at all. He didn't want it and gave up every time. Didn't feel like digging deep.

Who is talking about winning the SB with last year's team? I don't believe Stafford could have won it with the 2021 Vikings team, but he would have at least made the season more entertaining. Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers, Wilson or Allen might have made the 2021 a SB team, but I am talking about that 2018 team, whose D gave up 30+ points exactly once. Which is 1 less than the SB winning Ram's D gave up this past season.

As for digging deep:

One QB is capable of winning a game when his team gives up more than 35 points, one has never done it once in his entire career.

Forget the tier stuff and just say we can't win because Cousins sucks. This new GM we have can't be to bright himself. He just extended him. I thought the guy was a genius. I guess not.

He was pretty smart to not go beyond one year with the extension likely forced on him by ownership's unwillingness to bottom out. A huge vote of confidence in the QB don't you think?

We went through this. You say that the 2017 and 2018 teams were the same. There were changes. In 2017 Shurmur was the OC and he left to coach the Giants. Zim hired Flip from the Eagles. Griffen had 13 sacks in 2017 and only 5 in 2018. He wasn't the same player.
Case lead us to a Packers sweep in 2017. In 2018 Cousins lead us to a 1 win and 1 tie against the Packers. Loser Cousins settled for a 35 yard FG attempt for the win in the tie game and it was missed. He missed 2 other attempts also and was cut later in the season. Stafford the tier 1 QB was beat by Cousins twice. In 2 games Stafford threw 0 TDs. The Lions scored 18 in 2 games. How does a lower tier guy beat a tier 1 guy twice in a season. Those tier rankings seem off. Cousins lost the Bills game as he fumbled twice on strip sacks. He also fumbled a center snap. He had an interception also. Terrible game. That game we tied an NFL record for the least amount of rushing attempts in a game with 6. That game ended Flips career with us and he was fired in December. Zim just plugged another guy into the spot. Much different than in 2017.
Our team gave up 252 points in 2017. In 2018 we gave up 341. Something happened to that D. They never came close to shutting out the Packers again or playing like they did in 2017. Never assume that a team will do the same thing the next year. We have been in Champ games in the past and never returned the following season. 15-1 team we didn't make it again. The year Culpepper was shut out with 2 HOF WRs we didn't make it back. After the Redskins game we didn't get back. Teams change every year for many different reasons.

[VikingsVictorious]

Who is talking about winning the SB with last year's team? I don't believe Stafford could have won it with the 2021 Vikings team, but he would have at least made the season more entertaining. Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers, Wilson or Allen might have made the 2021 a SB team, but I am talking about that 2018 team, whose D gave up 30+ points exactly once. Which is 1 less than the SB winning Ram's D gave up this past season.

As for digging deep:

One QB is capable of winning a game when his team gives up more than 35 points, one has never done it once in his entire career.


He was pretty smart to not go beyond one year with the extension likely forced on him by ownership's unwillingness to bottom out. A huge vote of confidence in the QB don't you think?

We went through this. You say that the 2017 and 2018 teams were the same. There were changes. In 2017 Shurmur was the OC and he left to coach the Giants. Zim hired Flip from the Eagles. Griffen had 13 sacks in 2017 and only 5 in 2018. He wasn't the same player.
Case lead us to a Packers sweep in 2017. In 2018 Cousins lead us to a 1 win and 1 tie against the Packers. Loser Cousins settled for a 35 yard FG attempt for the win in the tie game and it was missed. He missed 2 other attempts also and was cut later in the season. Stafford the tier 1 QB was beat by Cousins twice. In 2 games Stafford threw 0 TDs. The Lions scored 18 in 2 games. How does a lower tier guy beat a tier 1 guy twice in a season. Those tier rankings seem off. Cousins lost the Bills game as he fumbled twice on strip sacks. He also fumbled a center snap. He had an interception also. Terrible game. That game we tied an NFL record for the least amount of rushing attempts in a game with 6. That game ended Flips career with us and he was fired in December. Zim just plugged another guy into the spot. Much different than in 2017.
Our team gave up 252 points in 2017. In 2018 we gave up 341. Something happened to that D. They never came close to shutting out the Packers again or playing like they did in 2017. Never assume that a team will do the same thing the next year. We have been in Champ games in the past and never returned the following season. 15-1 team we didn't make it again. The year Culpepper was shut out with 2 HOF WRs we didn't make it back. After the Redskins game we didn't get back. Teams change every year for many different reasons.

We can always count on Stump for digging deeeeeeeeeeeep. Very astute of you Char to recognize how Cousins missed those three FGs that would have meant a sweep of the pukers.

[StumpHunter]

Who is talking about winning the SB with last year's team? I don't believe Stafford could have won it with the 2021 Vikings team, but he would have at least made the season more entertaining. Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers, Wilson or Allen might have made the 2021 a SB team, but I am talking about that 2018 team, whose D gave up 30+ points exactly once. Which is 1 less than the SB winning Ram's D gave up this past season.

As for digging deep:

One QB is capable of winning a game when his team gives up more than 35 points, one has never done it once in his entire career.


He was pretty smart to not go beyond one year with the extension likely forced on him by ownership's unwillingness to bottom out. A huge vote of confidence in the QB don't you think?

We went through this. You say that the 2017 and 2018 teams were the same. There were changes. In 2017 Shurmur was the OC and he left to coach the Giants. Zim hired Flip from the Eagles. Griffen had 13 sacks in 2017 and only 5 in 2018. He wasn't the same player.

Yes, you keep repeating the same tired excuses and they keep not being valid.

Case lead us to a Packers sweep in 2017. In 2018 Cousins lead us to a 1 win and 1 tie against the Packers. Loser Cousins settled for a 35 yard FG attempt for the win in the tie game and it was missed. He missed 2 other attempts also and was cut later in the season.

Fine, Cousins can have the win against the 6 win Packers for the sweep and the Vikings go 9-7 after going 13-3. How does this help you argument exactly?

Stafford the tier 1 QB was beat by Cousins twice. In 2 games Stafford threw 0 TDs. The Lions scored 18 in 2 games. How does a lower tier guy beat a tier 1 guy twice in a season. Those tier rankings seem off.

Well, Stafford was bad against the Vikings because they had a top 3 D and he isn't a tier 1 QB. Just a higher tier than Cousins is all. Something 99% of NFL fans agree with.

Cousins lost the Bills game as he fumbled twice on strip sacks. He also fumbled a center snap. He had an interception also. Terrible game. That game we tied an NFL record for the least amount of rushing attempts in a game with 6. That game ended Flips career with us and he was fired in December. Zim just plugged another guy into the spot. Much different than in 2017.

Pretty much the same as 2017 where relying too heavily on the QB instead of the run was a bad move.

Our team gave up 252 points in 2017. In 2018 we gave up 341. Something happened to that D. They never came close to shutting out the Packers again or playing like they did in 2017.

Wrong. The D gave up 243 points in 2017, and 297 in 2016. The biggest impact to teams scoring more points in 2018 than 2017 were the 5 TDs Cousins gifted the opposition and the rule changes put into affect because Barr broke baby Erin's collarbone causing more scoring in general in 2018. 2nd in points per drive in 2017, 3rd in 2018.

Never assume that a team will do the same thing the next year.

Going from a backup to the highest paid QB in the NFL, I agree, we shouldn't have assumed things would be the same. They should have been better.

Imagine if the Rams had gone from Jared Goff to Matt Stafford and won 5 fewer games in 2021. Would you be making the same excuses for Stafford you are making for Cousins? Even with the D going from #1 in 2020 to #8 in 2021 (which it did)?

Took over for a much better QB than Cousins took over, and had a worse defense but improved his team versus what happened with Cousins. Which is why most of the NFL thinks of the Vikings QB situation as a joke and deep down why you were willing to trade 3 1sts, Kirk Cousins and Barr to move up to 3rd pick to draft Jones last season.

[CharVike]

We went through this. You say that the 2017 and 2018 teams were the same. There were changes. In 2017 Shurmur was the OC and he left to coach the Giants. Zim hired Flip from the Eagles. Griffen had 13 sacks in 2017 and only 5 in 2018. He wasn't the same player.

Yes, you keep repeating the same tired excuses and they keep not being valid.

Case lead us to a Packers sweep in 2017. In 2018 Cousins lead us to a 1 win and 1 tie against the Packers. Loser Cousins settled for a 35 yard FG attempt for the win in the tie game and it was missed. He missed 2 other attempts also and was cut later in the season.

Fine, Cousins can have the win against the 6 win Packers for the sweep and the Vikings go 9-7 after going 13-3. How does this help you argument exactly?

Stafford the tier 1 QB was beat by Cousins twice. In 2 games Stafford threw 0 TDs. The Lions scored 18 in 2 games. How does a lower tier guy beat a tier 1 guy twice in a season. Those tier rankings seem off.

Well, Stafford was bad against the Vikings because they had a top 3 D and he isn't a tier 1 QB. Just a higher tier than Cousins is all. Something 99% of NFL fans agree with.

Cousins lost the Bills game as he fumbled twice on strip sacks. He also fumbled a center snap. He had an interception also. Terrible game. That game we tied an NFL record for the least amount of rushing attempts in a game with 6. That game ended Flips career with us and he was fired in December. Zim just plugged another guy into the spot. Much different than in 2017.

Pretty much the same as 2017 where relying too heavily on the QB instead of the run was a bad move.

Our team gave up 252 points in 2017. In 2018 we gave up 341. Something happened to that D. They never came close to shutting out the Packers again or playing like they did in 2017.

Wrong. The D gave up 243 points in 2017, and 297 in 2016. The biggest impact to teams scoring more points in 2018 than 2017 were the 5 TDs Cousins gifted the opposition and the rule changes put into affect because Barr broke baby Erin's collarbone causing more scoring in general in 2018. 2nd in points per drive in 2017, 3rd in 2018.

Never assume that a team will do the same thing the next year.

Going from a backup to the highest paid QB in the NFL, I agree, we shouldn't have assumed things would be the same. They should have been better.

Imagine if the Rams had gone from Jared Goff to Matt Stafford and won 5 fewer games in 2021. Would you be making the same excuses for Stafford you are making for Cousins? Even with the D going from #1 in 2020 to #8 in 2021 (which it did)?

Took over for a much better QB than Cousins took over, and had a worse defense but improved his team versus what happened with Cousins. Which is why most of the NFL thinks of the Vikings QB situation as a joke and deep down why you were willing to trade 3 1sts, Kirk Cousins and Barr to move up to 3rd pick to draft Jones last season.

How was that wrong. Here it is. We gave up 341 according to PFF which is the bible.
2018 Minnesota Vikings Statistics & Players
Record: 8-7-1, 2nd in NFC North Division (Schedule and Results)
Coach: Mike Zimmer (8-7-1)
Points For: 360 (22.5/g) 19th of 32
Points Against: 341 (21.3/g) 9th of 32
You don't think losing Everson didn't hurt us?
2017 Minnesota Vikings Statistics & Players
Record: 13-3-0, 1st in NFC North Division (Schedule and Results)
Coach: Mike Zimmer (13-3-0)
Points For: 382 (23.9/g) 10th of 32
Points Against: 252 (15.8/g) 1st of 32
Won Divisional Round 29-24 vs. New Orleans Saints
Lost Conference Championship 7-38 vs. Philadelphia Eagles
Getting Jones had nothing to do with Cousins. When a top flight QB falls you make the pick. Those chances come around once in a blue moon. That won't happen again in my lifetime. We let Rodgers slide by and have paid the price. In 2018 Everson had problems which didn't help our team. In 2017 he was a superstar. He was our leader and a great player. Our players had a hard time dealing with his lose. That's not an excuse it's what happened. Hopefully our new group find coaches that want to be here and are qualified. No more of this favor hire BS. I'd prefer to look forward because we can't change the past and reliving that great 2017 season and the arse beating we took in the Champ game isn't pretty. It happened. We need to fix this OL, ST and most of all our D. If that happens we can play with any team. Getting Hunter back is the first step. Finding some people that can cover is a must have because our shutdown guy had a 63 pff grade. That don't scare any QB. Hopefully Smith has some air in his tires.
Who are these most of the NFL who are laughing at us. I'd like to know so I can see how they do against us.

[StumpHunter]

Yes, you keep repeating the same tired excuses and they keep not being valid.

Fine, Cousins can have the win against the 6 win Packers for the sweep and the Vikings go 9-7 after going 13-3. How does this help you argument exactly?


Well, Stafford was bad against the Vikings because they had a top 3 D and he isn't a tier 1 QB. Just a higher tier than Cousins is all. Something 99% of NFL fans agree with.


Pretty much the same as 2017 where relying too heavily on the QB instead of the run was a bad move.


Wrong. The D gave up 243 points in 2017, and 297 in 2016. The biggest impact to teams scoring more points in 2018 than 2017 were the 5 TDs Cousins gifted the opposition and the rule changes put into affect because Barr broke baby Erin's collarbone causing more scoring in general in 2018. 2nd in points per drive in 2017, 3rd in 2018.

Going from a backup to the highest paid QB in the NFL, I agree, we shouldn't have assumed things would be the same. They should have been better.

Imagine if the Rams had gone from Jared Goff to Matt Stafford and won 5 fewer games in 2021. Would you be making the same excuses for Stafford you are making for Cousins? Even with the D going from #1 in 2020 to #8 in 2021 (which it did)?

Took over for a much better QB than Cousins took over, and had a worse defense but improved his team versus what happened with Cousins. Which is why most of the NFL thinks of the Vikings QB situation as a joke and deep down why you were willing to trade 3 1sts, Kirk Cousins and Barr to move up to 3rd pick to draft Jones last season.

How was that wrong. Here it is. We gave up 341 according to PFF which is the bible.
2018 Minnesota Vikings Statistics & Players
Record: 8-7-1, 2nd in NFC North Division (Schedule and Results)
Coach: Mike Zimmer (8-7-1)
Points For: 360 (22.5/g) 19th of 32
Points Against: 341 (21.3/g) 9th of 32
You don't think losing Everson didn't hurt us?
2017 Minnesota Vikings Statistics & Players
Record: 13-3-0, 1st in NFC North Division (Schedule and Results)
Coach: Mike Zimmer (13-3-0)
Points For: 382 (23.9/g) 10th of 32
Points Against: 252 (15.8/g) 1st of 32
Won Divisional Round 29-24 vs. New Orleans Saints
Lost Conference Championship 7-38 vs. Philadelphia Eagles

The Vikings DEFENSE did not give up 21.3 PPG in 2018. I already told you why your numbers are wrong, try reading my post again and see if you can figure out why this time.

Getting Jones had nothing to do with Cousins. When a top flight QB falls you make the pick. Those chances come around once in a blue moon.

Do I have to find the quote of you saying you want to trade 3 1sts, Cousins and Barr for the #3 pick again? That is an awful lot to give up to move on from a guy you so adamantly defend now. Jones had nothing to do with Cousins, but you wanted to trade Cousins away to get him?

I will ask my question again, if the Rams only won 5 games last season after trading for Stafford, would you be making excuses for him like you are making them for Cousins? Or would you be laughing at the Rams for giving up 2 1sts for a guy who didn't make the team better?

[CharVike]

How was that wrong. Here it is. We gave up 341 according to PFF which is the bible.
2018 Minnesota Vikings Statistics & Players
Record: 8-7-1, 2nd in NFC North Division (Schedule and Results)
Coach: Mike Zimmer (8-7-1)
Points For: 360 (22.5/g) 19th of 32
Points Against: 341 (21.3/g) 9th of 32
You don't think losing Everson didn't hurt us?
2017 Minnesota Vikings Statistics & Players
Record: 13-3-0, 1st in NFC North Division (Schedule and Results)
Coach: Mike Zimmer (13-3-0)
Points For: 382 (23.9/g) 10th of 32
Points Against: 252 (15.8/g) 1st of 32
Won Divisional Round 29-24 vs. New Orleans Saints
Lost Conference Championship 7-38 vs. Philadelphia Eagles

The Vikings DEFENSE did not give up 21.3 PPG in 2018. I already told you why your numbers are wrong, try reading my post again and see if you can figure out why this time.

Getting Jones had nothing to do with Cousins. When a top flight QB falls you make the pick. Those chances come around once in a blue moon.

Do I have to find the quote of you saying you want to trade 3 1sts, Cousins and Barr for the #3 pick again? That is an awful lot to give up to move on from a guy you so adamantly defend now. Jones had nothing to do with Cousins, but you wanted to trade Cousins away to get him?

I will ask my question again, if the Rams only won 5 games last season after trading for Stafford, would you be making excuses for him like you are making them for Cousins? Or would you be laughing at the Rams for giving up 2 1sts for a guy who didn't make the team better?

Our team gave up what they did. Did I go through every play? No. I used defense instead of team. Our ST might have given something up. We might have a pick 6 or fumble return.
Yes I did suggest that trade. To get into the top 5 you need to give something up from a value position. Our punter or FG kicker wouldn't have given us the leverage. Hunter might have because of the position he plays. But during that draft we were sitting at our spot and Jones was there and I posted pick him. Check that out instead of some dream trade I made up. I don't give a crap what the Rams do. That team is very well balanced across the board. They don't have gaping holes. If they won 5 I would have said nice try. If AD gets knocked out for the season this year I would post say goodnight the shows over. Stafford made a nice drive at the end of the Champ game to get them there. That 49er D is very good also but he made it happen. Stafford can play good. He has a great arm. That's been proven already. He also can stink the place out as he showed against us last year. But they found another way to win the game.

[JJBreaksRecords]

How was that wrong. Here it is. We gave up 341 according to PFF which is the bible.
2018 Minnesota Vikings Statistics & Players
Record: 8-7-1, 2nd in NFC North Division (Schedule and Results)
Coach: Mike Zimmer (8-7-1)
Points For: 360 (22.5/g) 19th of 32
Points Against: 341 (21.3/g) 9th of 32
You don't think losing Everson didn't hurt us?
2017 Minnesota Vikings Statistics & Players
Record: 13-3-0, 1st in NFC North Division (Schedule and Results)
Coach: Mike Zimmer (13-3-0)
Points For: 382 (23.9/g) 10th of 32
Points Against: 252 (15.8/g) 1st of 32
Won Divisional Round 29-24 vs. New Orleans Saints
Lost Conference Championship 7-38 vs. Philadelphia Eagles

The Vikings DEFENSE did not give up 21.3 PPG in 2018. I already told you why your numbers are wrong, try reading my post again and see if you can figure out why this time.

Getting Jones had nothing to do with Cousins. When a top flight QB falls you make the pick. Those chances come around once in a blue moon.

Do I have to find the quote of you saying you want to trade 3 1sts, Cousins and Barr for the #3 pick again? That is an awful lot to give up to move on from a guy you so adamantly defend now. Jones had nothing to do with Cousins, but you wanted to trade Cousins away to get him?

I will ask my question again, if the Rams only won 5 games last season after trading for Stafford, would you be making excuses for him like you are making them for Cousins? Or would you be laughing at the Rams for giving up 2 1sts for a guy who didn't make the team better?

Isnt it funny how some people were so critical of Cousins (quite rightly so) and now will protest anytime people bring up the fact that a supposed top 10 qb (more like a top 15) hasnt done squat for this team. He helps brings us to mediocrity every year, but never a championship. I wish we had kept Case, until we found a franchise QB.

[phantom]

The Vikings DEFENSE did not give up 21.3 PPG in 2018. I already told you why your numbers are wrong, try reading my post again and see if you can figure out why this time.


Do I have to find the quote of you saying you want to trade 3 1sts, Cousins and Barr for the #3 pick again? That is an awful lot to give up to move on from a guy you so adamantly defend now. Jones had nothing to do with Cousins, but you wanted to trade Cousins away to get him?

I will ask my question again, if the Rams only won 5 games last season after trading for Stafford, would you be making excuses for him like you are making them for Cousins? Or would you be laughing at the Rams for giving up 2 1sts for a guy who didn't make the team better?

Isnt it funny how some people were so critical of Cousins (quite rightly so) and now will protest anytime people bring up the fact that a supposed top 10 qb (more like a top 15) hasnt done squat for this team. He helps brings us to mediocrity every year, but never a championship. I wish we had kept Case, until we found a franchise QB.

If we only had a time machine.

[JJBreaksRecords]

Isnt it funny how some people were so critical of Cousins (quite rightly so) and now will protest anytime people bring up the fact that a supposed top 10 qb (more like a top 15) hasnt done squat for this team. He helps brings us to mediocrity every year, but never a championship. I wish we had kept Case, until we found a franchise QB.

If we only had a time machine.

We can just look up some of the old threads or posts. Theres a time machine for ya.

[phantom]

If we only had a time machine.

We can just look up some of the old threads or posts. Theres a time machine for ya.

It would have been nice to see what Case would have done. But it doesn't matter now, there's no going back.

[phantom]

We can just look up some of the old threads or posts. Theres a time machine for ya.

It would have been nice to see what Case would have done. But it doesn't matter now, there's no going back.

I also think he earned it

[JJBreaksRecords]

It would have been nice to see what Case would have done. But it doesn't matter now, there's no going back.

I also think he earned it

I do too. But some fans thought it was just Case being lucky.

[vikeinmontana]

I also think he earned it

I do too. But some fans thought it was just Case being lucky.

I'm with you guys but I think it worked out great for him too. The Vikings were the guys 5th team in like 6 seasons. He made the most of his opportunity and was rewarded with a contract worth nearly 40 million dollars. It didn't work out and he's now on his 4th team since he started for the Vikings.

I won't say he was "lucky" his season with us per se. But any time a guy has played for 10 different NFL teams in about 10 years with really only one pretty good season, it's not super far-fetched to at the very least call it a lightning in a bottle season.

[JJBreaksRecords]

I do too. But some fans thought it was just Case being lucky.

I'm with you guys but I think it worked out great for him too. The Vikings were the guys 5th team in like 6 seasons. He made the most of his opportunity and was rewarded with a contract worth nearly 40 million dollars. It didn't work out and he's now on his 4th team since he started for the Vikings.

I won't say he was "lucky" his season with us per se. But any time a guy has played for 10 different NFL teams in about 10 years with really only one pretty good season, it's not super far-fetched to at the very least call it a lightning in a bottle season.

And yet he was a backup, and paid 1000 times less than kirk, and shined when he took over. I am just concerned by all the excuses for Kirk, and only a few made for Case not coming back.