Vikings Message Board.Com

Cliff wrote: ↑Sun May 22, 2022 7:41 am

CharVike wrote: ↑Sat May 21, 2022 10:30 pm
Hamilton. Nobody knows about picks but I do know this the further down the board you move there will be a shrinkage in the talent pool. The best come off the board fast. Kwesi has a BS from Princeton and a Masters from Stanford. That's impressive. No average mind or idiot is getting into those schools. I don't disagree. I agree with genius. Now use it in the NFL world. Don't do the same crap that we have been doing for a long time. It don't work. There's my mock but it's the truth. My expectations are high. This OL needs to be pushed into the top 10 or we are done. The Chiefs did it in one off season. It's not an impossible task. The Chargers are another team fixing the OL and have made tremendous progress.

Check the drafts between 2013 and 2018 for the Vikings if you want to get a feel for how important it is to be in the 1st compared to the 2nd. Eight 1st rounders during that time frame and we still got more keepers in the 2nd round.

In fairness, does that say more about round 1 vs round 2 quality, or about Rick Spielman and Co.'s ability to find quality in round 1?

fiestavike wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 10:01 am

CharVike wrote: ↑Sat May 21, 2022 10:30 pm
Hamilton. Nobody knows about picks but I do know this the further down the board you move there will be a shrinkage in the talent pool. The best come off the board fast. Kwesi has a BS from Princeton and a Masters from Stanford. That's impressive. No average mind or idiot is getting into those schools. I don't disagree. I agree with genius. Now use it in the NFL world. Don't do the same crap that we have been doing for a long time. It don't work. There's my mock but it's the truth. My expectations are high. This OL needs to be pushed into the top 10 or we are done. The Chiefs did it in one off season. It's not an impossible task. The Chargers are another team fixing the OL and have made tremendous progress.

I think it's clear Hamilton doesn't fit what the Vikings seem to be building. They seemed to select a 'type' on defense, of speed, aggression, and physicality. I think they want their defense playing downhill and not overthinking things. They might be vulnerable to passes over the top, but I think they'll want to apply pressure and force opponents to execute those deep plays and then blow up everything underneath.

Agreed as well.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 10:56 am

fiestavike wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 10:01 am

I think it's clear Hamilton doesn't fit what the Vikings seem to be building. They seemed to select a 'type' on defense, of speed, aggression, and physicality. I think they want their defense playing downhill and not overthinking things. They might be vulnerable to passes over the top, but I think they'll want to apply pressure and force opponents to execute those deep plays and then blow up everything underneath.

Agreed as well.

Hamilton is the guy I wanted no more than that. The key like always will be pressure on the QB. If Hunter is healthy he'll bring pressure. He had an interesting talk during OTAs when the reporter asked him about standing up and if he was comfortable. He said he is ok with it and if you need to watch check out last season game in AZ. He stood up in that game at times and played great. I checked it out and he was right.

Thaumaturgist wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 10:47 am

Cliff wrote: ↑Sun May 22, 2022 7:41 am

Check the drafts between 2013 and 2018 for the Vikings if you want to get a feel for how important it is to be in the 1st compared to the 2nd. Eight 1st rounders during that time frame and we still got more keepers in the 2nd round.

In fairness, does that say more about round 1 vs round 2 quality, or about Rick Spielman and Co.'s ability to find quality in round 1?

A little of both. In the first round you sometimes really do have absolute can't miss prospects (that still fail once in a while). Andrew Luck for example. However, after the super highly rated Blue Chip types there often isn't a big difference between first and second round types as far as NFL success goes. That said I would always prefer a first rounder to a second rounder, but I would often prefer 2 2nd round picks to one first round pick. Our Lions trade this year got us a first round pick that was almost a 2nd round pick and a 2nd round pick that was almost a first round pick.

Then there was the Pukers trade where we got 2 2nd round picks for a 2nd round pick (that was almost a first round pick) I make that deal 99 times out of 100 even though it meant temporarily passing on Booth.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 6:58 am

CharVike wrote: ↑Sat May 21, 2022 10:30 pm
Hamilton. Nobody knows about picks but I do know this the further down the board you move there will be a shrinkage in the talent pool. The best come off the board fast. Kwesi has a BS from Princeton and a Masters from Stanford. That's impressive. No average mind or idiot is getting into those schools. I don't disagree. I agree with genius. Now use it in the NFL world. Don't do the same crap that we have been doing for a long time. It don't work. There's my mock but it's the truth. My expectations are high. This OL needs to be pushed into the top 10 or we are done. The Chiefs did it in one off season. It's not an impossible task. The Chargers are another team fixing the OL and have made tremendous progress.

In all fairness, it sounds like many teams had Cine higher on their board. But maybe had one or two players they liked better and drafted them instead. It came out that the Cowboys had him ranked 13th on their big board. You're just going off where mockers and analysts ranked Cine, not actual NFL teams. But again, all it took for teams to pass on Cine is if they simply had 1 player on their big board ranked higher.

Cine was the highest rated player on Dallas's board, but they went with an OL that they considered a greater need.

fiestavike wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 10:01 am

CharVike wrote: ↑Sat May 21, 2022 10:30 pm
Hamilton. Nobody knows about picks but I do know this the further down the board you move there will be a shrinkage in the talent pool. The best come off the board fast. Kwesi has a BS from Princeton and a Masters from Stanford. That's impressive. No average mind or idiot is getting into those schools. I don't disagree. I agree with genius. Now use it in the NFL world. Don't do the same crap that we have been doing for a long time. It don't work. There's my mock but it's the truth. My expectations are high. This OL needs to be pushed into the top 10 or we are done. The Chiefs did it in one off season. It's not an impossible task. The Chargers are another team fixing the OL and have made tremendous progress.

I think it's clear Hamilton doesn't fit what the Vikings seem to be building. They seemed to select a 'type' on defense, of speed, aggression, and physicality. I think they want their defense playing downhill and not overthinking things. They might be vulnerable to passes over the top, but I think they'll want to apply pressure and force opponents to execute those deep plays and then blow up everything underneath.

I agree with you. Hamilton was not on the Vikings radar. If we had made the pick at 12 it may have been Cine or some other unknown player.

CharVike wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 11:54 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 10:56 am

Agreed as well.

Hamilton is the guy I wanted no more than that. The key like always will be pressure on the QB. If Hunter is healthy he'll bring pressure. He had an interesting talk during OTAs when the reporter asked him about standing up and if he was comfortable. He said he is ok with it and if you need to watch check out last season game in AZ. He stood up in that game at times and played great. I checked it out and he was right.

Can you imagine both Hunter and Z Smith being healthy all year and playing at an elite level? If that happens we can be CONTENDERS to win it all.

fiestavike wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 10:01 am

CharVike wrote: ↑Sat May 21, 2022 10:30 pm
Hamilton. Nobody knows about picks but I do know this the further down the board you move there will be a shrinkage in the talent pool. The best come off the board fast. Kwesi has a BS from Princeton and a Masters from Stanford. That's impressive. No average mind or idiot is getting into those schools. I don't disagree. I agree with genius. Now use it in the NFL world. Don't do the same crap that we have been doing for a long time. It don't work. There's my mock but it's the truth. My expectations are high. This OL needs to be pushed into the top 10 or we are done. The Chiefs did it in one off season. It's not an impossible task. The Chargers are another team fixing the OL and have made tremendous progress.

I think it's clear Hamilton doesn't fit what the Vikings seem to be building. They seemed to select a 'type' on defense, of speed, aggression, and physicality. I think they want their defense playing downhill and not overthinking things. They might be vulnerable to passes over the top, but I think they'll want to apply pressure and force opponents to execute those deep plays and then blow up everything underneath.

Agreed. I think it's pretty clear after the dust settled, he wasn't a fit for what they want. Whether that works or not will be what time tells. I like the Cine pick. Regardless of value of the trade that got him, I like him and Booth both myself. Glad they addressed secondary.

Also glad if we were gonna take a S we didn't use a top 12 pick on it.

Thaumaturgist wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 10:47 am

Cliff wrote: ↑Sun May 22, 2022 7:41 am

Check the drafts between 2013 and 2018 for the Vikings if you want to get a feel for how important it is to be in the 1st compared to the 2nd. Eight 1st rounders during that time frame and we still got more keepers in the 2nd round.

In fairness, does that say more about round 1 vs round 2 quality, or about Rick Spielman and Co.'s ability to find quality in round 1?

I think his main problem was looking for only one position in round 1. That's putting yourself in a bad spot. He let some talent go by. But the quality of players in round 1 is higher than round 2. His last draft he was only looking for a LT. That is a critical position and the best come off the board quickly. The LT Slater picked before his pick was an instant stud.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 12:24 pm

CharVike wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 11:54 am
Hamilton is the guy I wanted no more than that. The key like always will be pressure on the QB. If Hunter is healthy he'll bring pressure. He had an interesting talk during OTAs when the reporter asked him about standing up and if he was comfortable. He said he is ok with it and if you need to watch check out last season game in AZ. He stood up in that game at times and played great. I checked it out and he was right.

Can you imagine both Hunter and Z Smith being healthy all year and playing at an elite level? If that happens we can be CONTENDERS to win it all.

That will be the key for our D. Every time Hunter missed time we weren't the same. Same with Griffen when he was great. It always comes down to the LOS battle. That's the starting point.

CharVike wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 12:35 pm

Thaumaturgist wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 10:47 am

In fairness, does that say more about round 1 vs round 2 quality, or about Rick Spielman and Co.'s ability to find quality in round 1?

I think his main problem was looking for only one position in round 1. That's putting yourself in a bad spot. He let some talent go by. But the quality of players in round 1 is higher than round 2. His last draft he was only looking for a LT. That is a critical position and the best come off the board quickly. The LT Slater picked before his pick was an instant stud.

It's a shame we didn't get Slater, but Darrisaw losing all that time to his injury isn't the norm and once he got healthy he gave indications of becoming a stud also.

Thaumaturgist wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 10:47 am

Cliff wrote: ↑Sun May 22, 2022 7:41 am

Check the drafts between 2013 and 2018 for the Vikings if you want to get a feel for how important it is to be in the 1st compared to the 2nd. Eight 1st rounders during that time frame and we still got more keepers in the 2nd round.

In fairness, does that say more about round 1 vs round 2 quality, or about Rick Spielman and Co.'s ability to find quality in round 1?

I think it speaks more to the draft being a crap shoot. The "experts" generally thought he did a good job during that period. Rick's lowest rated draft (the grades right after the draft) was when he traded the 1st for Sam Bradford and picked up Cook in the 2nd. Despite him not having a 1st round at all that year Cook is one of 3-4 players from the first 2 rounds during that peroid actually still with the team.