Kirk Cousins calls a meeting this offseason....

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CharVike
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Re: Kirk Cousins calls a meeting this offseason....

Post by CharVike »

StumpHunter wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:52 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 9:50 pm
You said Kirk was a complete failure. How could a complete failure have best years.
Being a better version of a failure of a QB in MN than Washington doesn't change the fact that he is still a failure.

How could a complete failure lead a team with a cellar dweller defense to anywhere near a 500 record? Is it just possible your complete failure line was full of it?
You touting a .500 record as a success just proves that we just have different definitions of failure I guess. You see a 3 yard pass on 3rd and 7 and see it as a success, I see it as a failure. You see a QB put up a good passer rating while leading an offense with 31st best TOP and winning 8 games as a success, to me that is a failure. The GB Packers D gave up the exact same amount of points per drive as the Vikings' D, yet one team was the #1 overall seed while the other didn't even make the playoffs. One QB successfully kept his bad D off the field by leading successful drives, the other put his bad D on the field constantly by leading unsuccessful ones.
Teams rankings based on points allowed.
9/10 - Rams/Packers - 21.3
24. Vikes - 25.1
Points per drive means nothing. Total points scored for and against is what matters.
Over 400 total points allowed in the NFC.- WFT,Giants,Vikes,Bears,Lions,Falcons,Panthers - These teams couldn't stop their opponents from scoring. We had more wins than any of them.
Cousins and Rodgers faced each other this year. Both defenses sucked wind but we won. DVOA didn't help them. Cousins shredding their defense is what did it because Zim's master D and ST didn't show up as usual. Same old story. That needs to be fixed.
Last edited by CharVike on Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kirk Cousins calls a meeting this offseason....

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

StumpHunter wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:04 pm
I am not projecting anything, just using common sense. You however are comparing children playing for fun to adults playing for millions. It isn't the same, and while culture does matter, that culture won 13 games and went to the NFCCG after losing its starting QB for the second season in a row.
Dude, come on. First of all, I'm referring to a very competitive high school team and it's culture with one coach vs. another, not 5 year olds. Second, I dont understand why you think money has anything to do with it. Look at teams that win it all. The culture is great in every single one of those locker rooms. The relationships between coaches and players is great. Look at the bond McVay has had with his players. Players that arent even on the offensive side of the ball like Donald, Miller, Ramsey, etc. Look at the relationship McVay had with Stafford. It was second to none. Are you going to tell me Mike Zimmer had those types of relationships with multiple players on his team, let alone Kirk Cousins? His own damn middle linebacker threw him under the bus when he was fired for goodness sake.

I literally couldnt care less about what he did in 2017. This league is all about what you've done for me lately. And Mike Zimmer has crumbled this team and this locker room the last two seasons especially. I mean there was an article on how former players of his were extremely frustrated that he made his son Adam Zimmer a DC when Andre Patterson was 10 times more deserving of it. And this is just the FORMER players that were ticked about that happening. Imagine how the guys that were still on the team felt.

On top of all that, Zim and Spielman were having pis#ing matches with each other. You're going to tell me that had no effect on the locker room either? It had no effect on who Zimmer was and wasnt putting on the field? Come on dude. Stop defending this man, it makes you look foolish.

This article is saying that he has to go to this extra effort to prove he is a leader, which proves he isn't one.
Again what you are saying is assumption. You are literally downplaying a positive meeting our QB had just because you cant stand him. This is what kills me with you. ANYTHING positive this guy does..... has this meeting, wins us a game, throws the offense on his back while his defense is taking a dump, comes from behind to win us a game, wins a game in OT, beats the saints in the playoffs, etc. And all you do in every single one of these situations is discredit him. Like yeah, there are times to get on him for certain things but it is LITERALLY everything with you. You will not give this guy one single ounce of credit for anything positive he does. Has there been negative? Sure. Does he deserve criticism? Sure. But I swear your ultimate goal in life is to make sure Kirk Cousins receives zero credit from any Vikings fan for anything he does on and off the field.
You yourself said he needed to feel like his HC wanted him to take charge in order to really start to be a leader, which again, proves he isn't a leader.
....this is the classic "Stump twisting my words around to fit his argument". I literally never said what you are saying above. This is what you do when you know you have no argument. You reach and manipulate peoples words and act like you actually have an argument and try and create your own narrative. A for effort I guess.
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Re: Kirk Cousins calls a meeting this offseason....

Post by VikingsVictorious »

StumpHunter wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:41 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 9:46 pm
You're completely out of your mind. Many NFL teams would be very interested in trading for Kirk and he is far from being a complete failure.
Reports say otherwise and the two teams most likely to make an offer for him, Carolina and Cleveland, both laughed at the idea. Top 5. :point:
You have NO IDEA what's true or not.
As for your top 5 ha ha ha emoji I pointed out the worst evaluation would be 16th and the best evaluation would be 5th. The truth lies somewhere in-between.Top 10 is fair.
Last edited by VikingsVictorious on Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kirk Cousins calls a meeting this offseason....

Post by VikingsVictorious »

StumpHunter wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:52 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 9:50 pm
You said Kirk was a complete failure. How could a complete failure have best years.
Being a better version of a failure of a QB in MN than Washington doesn't change the fact that he is still a failure.

How could a complete failure lead a team with a cellar dweller defense to anywhere near a 500 record? Is it just possible your complete failure line was full of it?
You touting a .500 record as a success just proves that we just have different definitions of failure I guess. You see a 3 yard pass on 3rd and 7 and see it as a success, I see it as a failure. You see a QB put up a good passer rating while leading an offense with 31st best TOP and winning 8 games as a success, to me that is a failure. The GB Packers D gave up the exact same amount of points per drive as the Vikings' D, yet one team was the #1 overall seed while the other didn't even make the playoffs. One QB successfully kept his bad D off the field by leading successful drives, the other put his bad D on the field constantly by leading unsuccessful ones.
First of all the bolded comment is a crock. Don't attribute BS to me. It failed to get the first down so it was a failure. The only time I would ever consider a 3 yard gain a success is if it went for a TD or first down.

You said complete failure. Complete. Nothing about him is not failing. Answer this question. When A QB throws a TD pass is that a failure? If it isn't any QB who has done that is not a complete failure. He has at least one play where he didn't fail. A QB who has a top 10 passer rating is not a complete failure. Throwing 4 TD passes or more per INT is not a complete failure. Having a top 10 YPA is not a complete failure. A 500 record for a QB with a D that is cellar dweller is quite successful. Based on the Defensive ranking the Vikings should have been no better than a 4 win team each of the last two years. Yet we did much better. Perhaps the offense was good or the QB was good.
Last edited by VikingsVictorious on Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kirk Cousins calls a meeting this offseason....

Post by VikingsVictorious »

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:00 am
StumpHunter wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:04 pm
I am not projecting anything, just using common sense. You however are comparing children playing for fun to adults playing for millions. It isn't the same, and while culture does matter, that culture won 13 games and went to the NFCCG after losing its starting QB for the second season in a row.
Dude, come on. First of all, I'm referring to a very competitive high school team and it's culture with one coach vs. another, not 5 year olds. Second, I dont understand why you think money has anything to do with it. Look at teams that win it all. The culture is great in every single one of those locker rooms. The relationships between coaches and players is great. Look at the bond McVay has had with his players. Players that arent even on the offensive side of the ball like Donald, Miller, Ramsey, etc. Look at the relationship McVay had with Stafford. It was second to none. Are you going to tell me Mike Zimmer had those types of relationships with multiple players on his team, let alone Kirk Cousins? His own damn middle linebacker threw him under the bus when he was fired for goodness sake.

I literally couldnt care less about what he did in 2017. This league is all about what you've done for me lately. And Mike Zimmer has crumbled this team and this locker room the last two seasons especially. I mean there was an article on how former players of his were extremely frustrated that he made his son Adam Zimmer a DC when Andre Patterson was 10 times more deserving of it. And this is just the FORMER players that were ticked about that happening. Imagine how the guys that were still on the team felt.

On top of all that, Zim and Spielman were having pis#ing matches with each other. You're going to tell me that had no effect on the locker room either? It had no effect on who Zimmer was and wasnt putting on the field? Come on dude. Stop defending this man, it makes you look foolish.

This article is saying that he has to go to this extra effort to prove he is a leader, which proves he isn't one.
Again what you are saying is assumption. You are literally downplaying a positive meeting our QB had just because you cant stand him. This is what kills me with you. ANYTHING positive this guy does..... has this meeting, wins us a game, throws the offense on his back while his defense is taking a dump, comes from behind to win us a game, wins a game in OT, beats the saints in the playoffs, etc. And all you do in every single one of these situations is discredit him. Like yeah, there are times to get on him for certain things but it is LITERALLY everything with you. You will not give this guy one single ounce of credit for anything positive he does. Has there been negative? Sure. Does he deserve criticism? Sure. But I swear your ultimate goal in life is to make sure Kirk Cousins receives zero credit from any Vikings fan for anything he does on and off the field.
You yourself said he needed to feel like his HC wanted him to take charge in order to really start to be a leader, which again, proves he isn't a leader.
....this is the classic "Stump twisting my words around to fit his argument". I literally never said what you are saying above. This is what you do when you know you have no argument. You reach and manipulate peoples words and act like you actually have an argument and try and create your own narrative. A for effort I guess.
Stump has admitted he cherry picks his stats to fit his narrative. He rejects any stats/facts that he doesn't like. Basically he has admitted to being a liar when it comes to Kirk.
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Re: Kirk Cousins calls a meeting this offseason....

Post by CharVike »

I think Carolina has found there guy. Rhule has been in contact with Newton since the end of the season. Newton's looking for an old home to roost.
"I love Cam Newton,'' Rhule said on Tuesday at the NFL owners meeting in South Florida. "He's an amazing leader. He's an amazing football player. Everything we do has to be right for the organization, right for him.''
Amazing leader. I never thought I'd hear that one. I wonder why Bellicheck would kick a leader like that to the curb? He's not the smartest coach in the world after all.
"I have teams that are interested in signing me,'' Newton told ESPN's Adam Schefter in a text. "I am waiting on the best fit as it pertains to winning a championship and getting a fair chance to play.''
Carolina is also holding out hope for Darnold.
Rhule said Tuesday he expects Darnold to show "significant improvement'' this season.
Why don't Rhule save some face and just step down? Better yet just keep quite about things you know nothing about.
I don't blame Newton either he's looking for some cash also. Times running out quickly.
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Re: Kirk Cousins calls a meeting this offseason....

Post by StumpHunter »

CharVike wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:31 am
StumpHunter wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:52 am
Being a better version of a failure of a QB in MN than Washington doesn't change the fact that he is still a failure.



You touting a .500 record as a success just proves that we just have different definitions of failure I guess. You see a 3 yard pass on 3rd and 7 and see it as a success, I see it as a failure. You see a QB put up a good passer rating while leading an offense with 31st best TOP and winning 8 games as a success, to me that is a failure. The GB Packers D gave up the exact same amount of points per drive as the Vikings' D, yet one team was the #1 overall seed while the other didn't even make the playoffs. One QB successfully kept his bad D off the field by leading successful drives, the other put his bad D on the field constantly by leading unsuccessful ones.
Teams rankings based on points allowed.
9/10 - Rams/Packers - 21.3
24. Vikes - 25.1
Points per drive means nothing. Total points scored for and against is what matters.
Over 400 total points allowed in the NFC.- WFT,Giants,Vikes,Bears,Lions,Falcons,Panthers - These teams couldn't stop their opponents from scoring. We had more wins than any of them.
Cousins and Rodgers faced each other this year. Both defenses sucked wind but we won. DVOA didn't help them. Cousins shredding their defense is what did it because Zim's master D and ST didn't show up as usual. Same old story. That needs to be fixed.
Points per drive are a better indicator of how good a defense is, but total points wins games and is more important, which is why having an offense that made it so their defense had fewer drives to defend, allowing them to give up fewer points, won 13 games for the Packers while our 31st TOP offense won 8. If the Vikings D defends the same amount of drives as the Packers, they average the exact same PPG as the Packers.

Here is some film study of Cousins shredding the Packers:
https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2021 ... rk-cousins

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Re: Kirk Cousins calls a meeting this offseason....

Post by CharVike »

StumpHunter wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:44 am
CharVike wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:31 am
Teams rankings based on points allowed.
9/10 - Rams/Packers - 21.3
24. Vikes - 25.1
Points per drive means nothing. Total points scored for and against is what matters.
Over 400 total points allowed in the NFC.- WFT,Giants,Vikes,Bears,Lions,Falcons,Panthers - These teams couldn't stop their opponents from scoring. We had more wins than any of them.
Cousins and Rodgers faced each other this year. Both defenses sucked wind but we won. DVOA didn't help them. Cousins shredding their defense is what did it because Zim's master D and ST didn't show up as usual. Same old story. That needs to be fixed.
Points per drive are a better indicator of how good a defense is, but total points wins games and is more important, which is why having an offense that made it so their defense had fewer drives to defend, allowing them to give up fewer points, won 13 games for the Packers while our 31st TOP offense won 8. If the Vikings D defends the same amount of drives as the Packers, they average the exact same PPG as the Packers.

Here is some film study of Cousins shredding the Packers:
https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2021 ... rk-cousins

Elite!
I don't need a film study. 341 yards on 35 attempts is good QB play and also 3 TD passes to boot. Was it all him. It never is or will be. NFL is the ultimate team sport. I'm sure that was every other player and Cousins did nothing in your view. When Cousins didn't play against the Pack every other player did nothing and we couldn't score. Rodgers who is the best tossed 4 TDs against Zim's vaulted D. As per usual they folded against the better competition. You can spin stats how ever you want. In the end it comes down to points on the board. Last season we started off 0-2 as two top teams beat us. Cousins was a loser again. That came down to points. Game 1 we were driving at the end and Cook coughs the ball up within FG range. In game 2 we drove down for the win and our FG kicker couldn't hit a chip shot for the win. Chocked up and didn't hit a straight ball. If he kicks a straight ball it's an easy FG. Team games as always. I've seen D's play great when the offense did nothing.
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Re: Kirk Cousins calls a meeting this offseason....

Post by JJBreaksRecords »

"A positive meeting our QB had" lol, im sorry, but that is so funny. I assume you were talking about Kirk right?
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Re: Kirk Cousins calls a meeting this offseason....

Post by Pondering Her Percy »

JJBreaksRecords wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:40 pm "A positive meeting our QB had" lol, im sorry, but that is so funny. I assume you were talking about Kirk right?
I don’t get where you’re going here….
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Re: Kirk Cousins calls a meeting this offseason....

Post by StumpHunter »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:59 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:00 am

Dude, come on. First of all, I'm referring to a very competitive high school team and it's culture with one coach vs. another, not 5 year olds. Second, I dont understand why you think money has anything to do with it. Look at teams that win it all. The culture is great in every single one of those locker rooms. The relationships between coaches and players is great. Look at the bond McVay has had with his players. Players that arent even on the offensive side of the ball like Donald, Miller, Ramsey, etc. Look at the relationship McVay had with Stafford. It was second to none. Are you going to tell me Mike Zimmer had those types of relationships with multiple players on his team, let alone Kirk Cousins? His own damn middle linebacker threw him under the bus when he was fired for goodness sake.

I literally couldnt care less about what he did in 2017. This league is all about what you've done for me lately. And Mike Zimmer has crumbled this team and this locker room the last two seasons especially. I mean there was an article on how former players of his were extremely frustrated that he made his son Adam Zimmer a DC when Andre Patterson was 10 times more deserving of it. And this is just the FORMER players that were ticked about that happening. Imagine how the guys that were still on the team felt.

On top of all that, Zim and Spielman were having pis#ing matches with each other. You're going to tell me that had no effect on the locker room either? It had no effect on who Zimmer was and wasnt putting on the field? Come on dude. Stop defending this man, it makes you look foolish.



Again what you are saying is assumption. You are literally downplaying a positive meeting our QB had just because you cant stand him. This is what kills me with you. ANYTHING positive this guy does..... has this meeting, wins us a game, throws the offense on his back while his defense is taking a dump, comes from behind to win us a game, wins a game in OT, beats the saints in the playoffs, etc. And all you do in every single one of these situations is discredit him. Like yeah, there are times to get on him for certain things but it is LITERALLY everything with you. You will not give this guy one single ounce of credit for anything positive he does. Has there been negative? Sure. Does he deserve criticism? Sure. But I swear your ultimate goal in life is to make sure Kirk Cousins receives zero credit from any Vikings fan for anything he does on and off the field.



....this is the classic "Stump twisting my words around to fit his argument". I literally never said what you are saying above. This is what you do when you know you have no argument. You reach and manipulate peoples words and act like you actually have an argument and try and create your own narrative. A for effort I guess.
Stump has admitted he cherry picks his stats to fit his narrative. He rejects any stats/facts that he doesn't like. Basically he has admitted to being a liar when it comes to Kirk.
I look up stats to confirm what I am saying is true instead of just making sh*t up and running with it. You should try it sometime.
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Re: Kirk Cousins calls a meeting this offseason....

Post by StumpHunter »

CharVike wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:20 pm
StumpHunter wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:44 am
Points per drive are a better indicator of how good a defense is, but total points wins games and is more important, which is why having an offense that made it so their defense had fewer drives to defend, allowing them to give up fewer points, won 13 games for the Packers while our 31st TOP offense won 8. If the Vikings D defends the same amount of drives as the Packers, they average the exact same PPG as the Packers.

Here is some film study of Cousins shredding the Packers:
https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2021 ... rk-cousins

Elite!
I don't need a film study. 341 yards on 35 attempts is good QB play and also 3 TD passes to boot. Was it all him. It never is or will be. NFL is the ultimate team sport. I'm sure that was every other player and Cousins did nothing in your view.
Nope, but you should really take a look at Cousins' supposed best game of the season and his only win against a top 10 pass defense as a Viking. You think our secondary is bad at intercepting footballs, watch the plays in that article.
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Re: Kirk Cousins calls a meeting this offseason....

Post by CharVike »

StumpHunter wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 7:57 am
CharVike wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:20 pm
I don't need a film study. 341 yards on 35 attempts is good QB play and also 3 TD passes to boot. Was it all him. It never is or will be. NFL is the ultimate team sport. I'm sure that was every other player and Cousins did nothing in your view.
Nope, but you should really take a look at Cousins' supposed best game of the season and his only win against a top 10 pass defense as a Viking. You think our secondary is bad at intercepting footballs, watch the plays in that article.
Here what's your looking for the Steph Zim bowl. Real show stopper. Nobody was awake when this ended.
Cousins 20/38/203/1-1 he sucked
Zim's D stepped up for this also
Mayfield 15/33/153/0-0 This was the game that ended it for him. Couldn't hit anything.
This was an early 70s classic 14-7 Browns win. No offense at all but the Browns did pound the rock down our throats. 184 yards rushing which gave them 35 minutes of TOP.
Then against the Super Bowl champs lead by the great leader Stafford.
Cousins 27/38/315/1-1 another joke performance
Of course the great leader Stafford carried them with this knock out performance.
Stafford 21/37/197/1-3 that's how a great leader performs against a crap D to make sure his team wins. I've seen this type of game from him other times in years past. But he is the best.
Cousins lead a come from behind win in this one. Something you said he never did with us.
Cousins 33/48/373/3-0 TD throw in OT for road win 34-28 against the Panthers. Outside of the road OT playoff game win this might be Kirk's biggest highlight comeback game. Of course it came against a crap team with no QB.
There's the crap show you wanted. The Brown game gets the medal. That was embarrassing.
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Re: Kirk Cousins calls a meeting this offseason....

Post by VikingsVictorious »

StumpHunter wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 7:17 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:59 am
Stump has admitted he cherry picks his stats to fit his narrative. He rejects any stats/facts that he doesn't like. Basically he has admitted to being a liar when it comes to Kirk.
I look up stats to confirm what I am saying is true instead of just making sh*t up and running with it. You should try it sometime.
When you look for stats to confirm what you are saying you lose any shred of credibility. You need to look for the stats then come up with your theory. Not come up with your theory and then look for the stats that back your theory up. You've already admitted that's how you do it so you can't put that genie back in the bottle. I've never made anything up. I look at the big picture and realize we have a good QB.
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Re: Kirk Cousins calls a meeting this offseason....

Post by StumpHunter »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:12 pm
StumpHunter wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 7:17 am
I look up stats to confirm what I am saying is true instead of just making sh*t up and running with it. You should try it sometime.
When you look for stats to confirm what you are saying you lose any shred of credibility. You need to look for the stats then come up with your theory. Not come up with your theory and then look for the stats that back your theory up. You've already admitted that's how you do it so you can't put that genie back in the bottle. I've never made anything up. I look at the big picture and realize we have a good QB.
I follow the scientific method:
The six steps of the scientific method include: 1) asking a question about something you observe, 2) doing background research to learn what is already known about the topic, 3) constructing a hypothesis, 4) experimenting to test the hypothesis, 5) analyzing the data from the experiment and drawing conclusions, and 6) communicating the results to others.
1) I observe Cousins being a .500 QB and ask why?
2) I do research to see what is already known about him losing half his starts
3) I construct a hypothesis that he just isn't good enough to overcome any sort of obstacle
4) I collect the stats in wins and losses, who the opponent is, what sort of obstacles he would have to overcome, etc.
5) I analyze the data and draw a conclusion that Cousins is indeed a .500 QB, because that is how he plays
6) I communicate here what I have found, much to the chagrin of fans who would like to pretend he is great despite the evidence pointing to different conclusion.

:thumbsup: