Rick and Zimmer both gone

[VikingLord]

I like Jimmy G he's a Super Bowl guy.

Jimmy G is good for at least one bonehead play a game and often more, sometimes with disastrous consequences for his team.

Literally the only thing that saves him time and again is stout defense and the fact that San Fran can often just pound the ball on the ground.

If the Vikings were to trade Cousins for Jimmy G straight up I would literally stop watching until they got rid of him. That would be like switching from Lloyd to Harry in Dumb and Dumber.

It takes a team effort.

It does but it takes a little individual moxie too and Cousins just doesn't bring that or inspire it.

If I have to watch him crawl into a shell again once he senses he's going to be under pressure I will also probably stop watching until a change is made.

The better QBs strike some fear into their opponents. Cousins and the way he plays strikes fear into us fans that we're going to watch him crumble yet again under pressure with his constant safe checkdowns, failure to get the ball out on time or give his receivers a chance to make a play.

The Vikings need to move on from Cousins. He's fool's gold and that's all there is too it at this point.

[CharVike]

I like Jimmy G he's a Super Bowl guy.

Jimmy G is good for at least one bonehead play a game and often more, sometimes with disastrous consequences for his team.

Literally the only thing that saves him time and again is stout defense and the fact that San Fran can often just pound the ball on the ground.

If the Vikings were to trade Cousins for Jimmy G straight up I would literally stop watching until they got rid of him. That would be like switching from Lloyd to Harry in Dumb and Dumber.

It takes a team effort.

It does but it takes a little individual moxie too and Cousins just doesn't bring that or inspire it.

If I have to watch him crawl into a shell again once he senses he's going to be under pressure I will also probably stop watching until a change is made.

The better QBs strike some fear into their opponents. Cousins and the way he plays strikes fear into us fans that we're going to watch him crumble yet again under pressure with his constant safe checkdowns, failure to get the ball out on time or give his receivers a chance to make a play.

The Vikings need to move on from Cousins. He's fool's gold and that's all there is too it at this point.

Cousins is better than Jimmy G. Your correct that Jimmy G will make a mistake every game. Plus he misses time. But he can throw the ball well. His YPA is high and I always look at that. Shannhan tried to trade for Cousins when he went to the 49ers but Snyder wouldn't talk and Lynch pulled the trigger on Jimmy. That's another thing I like about that 49er team is that they don't wait around. They move. Do they always hit? Of course not. I don't even know what Moxie is. I'll tell you how that 1st playoff game played out in Dallas and yes Jimmy G got the win but he didn't play lights out. Which is why they have a talent on the bench. That 49er D played some ball. Dak like all QBs couldn't handle the pressure and couldn't throw the ball well and turned it over. That's how you play in the playoffs if you want to win. Play on all levels. That's team football. I hope we keep Cousins I saw our backup and it wasn't good. Others want him dumped. If he gets dumped we move on. Some feel our core team is good and only one guy is holding it back. We should be in good shape this season without Cousins. Shany likes him maybe we can send him off to that guy. The 49ers will deal. That's been proven. They don't sit and wait. They keep the wheel moving. That's why I like there guy Peters for our GM. He's been through it with Lynch.

[CharVike]

Jimmy G is good for at least one bonehead play a game and often more, sometimes with disastrous consequences for his team.

Literally the only thing that saves him time and again is stout defense and the fact that San Fran can often just pound the ball on the ground.

If the Vikings were to trade Cousins for Jimmy G straight up I would literally stop watching until they got rid of him. That would be like switching from Lloyd to Harry in Dumb and Dumber.



It does but it takes a little individual moxie too and Cousins just doesn't bring that or inspire it.

If I have to watch him crawl into a shell again once he senses he's going to be under pressure I will also probably stop watching until a change is made.

The better QBs strike some fear into their opponents. Cousins and the way he plays strikes fear into us fans that we're going to watch him crumble yet again under pressure with his constant safe checkdowns, failure to get the ball out on time or give his receivers a chance to make a play.

The Vikings need to move on from Cousins. He's fool's gold and that's all there is too it at this point.

Cousins is better than Jimmy G. Your correct that Jimmy G will make a mistake every game. Plus he misses time. But he can throw the ball well. His YPA is high and I always look at that. Shannhan tried to trade for Cousins when he went to the 49ers but Snyder wouldn't talk and Lynch pulled the trigger on Jimmy. That's another thing I like about that 49er team is that they don't wait around. They move. Do they always hit? Of course not. I don't even know what Moxie is. I'll tell you how that 1st playoff game played out in Dallas and yes Jimmy G got the win but he didn't play lights out. Which is why they have a talent on the bench. That 49er D played some ball. Dak like all QBs couldn't handle the pressure and couldn't throw the ball well and turned it over. That's how you play in the playoffs if you want to win. Play on all levels. That's team football. I hope we keep Cousins I saw our backup and it wasn't good. Others want him dumped. If he gets dumped we move on. Some feel our core team is good and only one guy is holding it back. We should be in good shape this season without Cousins. Shany likes him maybe we can send him off to that guy. The 49ers will deal. That's been proven. They don't sit and wait. They keep the wheel moving. That's why I like there guy Peters for our GM. He's been through it with Lynch.

The haters call Cousins Mr Check down well his average per attempt was higher that Mahomes who must be a dink and dunker. Cousins has averaged over 8 is his career several seasons. IMO getting over 8 is very good. The haters will say it sucks. When you play Zim ball he don't want the ball thrown down field. He's into the Ham dump off which will generate a couple yards if Ham puts a move on a guy. That happens maybe twice a season. That's not his top skill level. He's a blocker and special teams guy which is needed. Zim thinks he's was a swing back. You should never throw that leed footed player the ball. He shouldn't be running a route. Brady is Mr Check down less YPA than our check down star plus he can't move. He wins the ultimate goal and yes that team is solid all around and they have some depth. They boot a starting WR and don't miss a beat. We lose Adam and have nothing except Osbourne who let a TD pass bounce off his stone hands for an interception. The haters will say the ball didn't have the proper spin rate to be caught. The defender caught it no problem.

[VikingsVictorious]

I like Jimmy G he's a Super Bowl guy.

Jimmy G is good for at least one bonehead play a game and often more, sometimes with disastrous consequences for his team.

Literally the only thing that saves him time and again is stout defense and the fact that San Fran can often just pound the ball on the ground.

If the Vikings were to trade Cousins for Jimmy G straight up I would literally stop watching until they got rid of him. That would be like switching from Lloyd to Harry in Dumb and Dumber.

It takes a team effort.

It does but it takes a little individual moxie too and Cousins just doesn't bring that or inspire it.

If I have to watch him crawl into a shell again once he senses he's going to be under pressure I will also probably stop watching until a change is made.

The better QBs strike some fear into their opponents. Cousins and the way he plays strikes fear into us fans that we're going to watch him crumble yet again under pressure with his constant safe checkdowns, failure to get the ball out on time or give his receivers a chance to make a play.

The Vikings need to move on from Cousins. He's fool's gold and that's all there is too it at this point.

You've got a good imagination. None of what I bolded is true in any way.

[VikingsVictorious]

Cousins is better than Jimmy G. Your correct that Jimmy G will make a mistake every game. Plus he misses time. But he can throw the ball well. His YPA is high and I always look at that. Shannhan tried to trade for Cousins when he went to the 49ers but Snyder wouldn't talk and Lynch pulled the trigger on Jimmy. That's another thing I like about that 49er team is that they don't wait around. They move. Do they always hit? Of course not. I don't even know what Moxie is. I'll tell you how that 1st playoff game played out in Dallas and yes Jimmy G got the win but he didn't play lights out. Which is why they have a talent on the bench. That 49er D played some ball. Dak like all QBs couldn't handle the pressure and couldn't throw the ball well and turned it over. That's how you play in the playoffs if you want to win. Play on all levels. That's team football. I hope we keep Cousins I saw our backup and it wasn't good. Others want him dumped. If he gets dumped we move on. Some feel our core team is good and only one guy is holding it back. We should be in good shape this season without Cousins. Shany likes him maybe we can send him off to that guy. The 49ers will deal. That's been proven. They don't sit and wait. They keep the wheel moving. That's why I like there guy Peters for our GM. He's been through it with Lynch.

The haters call Cousins Mr Check down well his average per attempt was higher that Mahomes who must be a dink and dunker. Cousins has averaged over 8 is his career several seasons. IMO getting over 8 is very good. The haters will say it sucks. When you play Zim ball he don't want the ball thrown down field. He's into the Ham dump off which will generate a couple yards if Ham puts a move on a guy. That happens maybe twice a season. That's not his top skill level. He's a blocker and special teams guy which is needed. Zim thinks he's was a swing back. You should never throw that leed footed player the ball. He shouldn't be running a route. Brady is Mr Check down less YPA than our check down star plus he can't move. He wins the ultimate goal and yes that team is solid all around and they have some depth. They boot a starting WR and don't miss a beat. We lose Adam and have nothing except Osbourne who let a TD pass bounce off his stone hands for an interception. The haters will say the ball didn't have the proper spin rate to be caught. The defender caught it no problem.

Yep Cousins being check down Charlie is a big lie made up by his detractors. Nobody cares if it's true or not if they can just say it often enough to make people believe it. Same thing with saying he wilts under pressure. He is better than most under pressure.

[VikingsVictorious]

I think many people would be well served to remember that football is the ultimate TEAM sport. Unless a team has the undisputed #1 offense while at the same time having the undisputed #32 defense, or vice versa, conversations like we've had all season are literally un-ending.

Our defense was not good. Several games they played well enough to win. Cousins and the offense were mediocre, but several times they did enough to win. The games that these two units did enough, we won. The games that one or both faltered, we lost. In the end, we lost more than we won, and missed the playoffs. Again.

Now we are in an exciting time where we are bringing in a new GM and Head Coach and I for one am very excited.

Sure there's a chance we get good people in both positions. Simply a chance of that isn't even close to getting me excited. I don't see good talent for those positions on the open market. I'm not expecting the Vikings to get better at the GM or HC positions.

[VikingsVictorious]

I know these arguments are as old as the pyramids, but let's say we had a QB that got us 7 more points per game. Do you honestly think other teams would simply go about their business in the same way? Do you not think other teams would play differently if they were behind by 3 instead of up by 4?

At the end of the day, stats are ONLY good for generally stack ranking team units against other team units.

They are useless once you start playing with them to say "I'm going to change one variable and hold all other variables constant to prove my point about wins and losses". It's a fools game.

This isn't just about scoring 7 more points a game.

A better QB makes the team better. We have seen it all across the league where a team adds a good QB after years of mediocre to bad QB play, and they improve significantly.

A better QB improves TOP (we were 31st), has longer drives (20th) AND scores more points (16th). Things that help the D give up fewer points and increase the chances of winning football games. Non-stat things like leading by example and making his teammates want to play harder to not let him down are almost as important.

The current QB just isn't a difference maker in any sense of the words. His stats are empty, his leadership is non-existent and I just don't get why people still defend him after the past 4 years of failure.

I defend him because he's one of the 10 best QBs in the NFL and you are blind and prejudiced and biased. You make the ultimate logical fallacy of assuming your premise that Cousins sucks and then you ignore all contrary evidence while digging deeeeeeep to find evidence that supports your assumed premise.

[psjordan]

I don't understand what point you are trying to make.

Well the overriding point is that we were a mediocre organization through and through, and trying to isolate one facet and saying "this was the crux, this is what held us back" while assuming the remaining mediocrity could handle whatever was thrown at them is not sound IMO.

Saying if we had better QB play (and really, no other stat matters but points they help put on the board) and were ahead of teams, and therefore would have come out "winners" or a playoff team implies that our mediocre game plans, coaches, in-game adjustments, strength and conditioning, defense, ability to hold a lead, special teams and overall talent depth could all adjust and handle whatever other teams threw at them as a result.

There is simply no giving them the benefit of the doubt. This team proved over and over that pretty much every single facet was mediocre. And the thing about mediocre is that reactions to actions are also mediocre, meaning if other teams started slinging the ball all over the place with 4 minutes left in the half, we could expect about the same results our coaches and D gave us with 2 minutes left in the half.

IMO, jettisoning Zim and Rick gets rid of the "managers" of well over half the mediocre aspects of this organization. Whoever comes in will likely get several years to prove they can rise above.

It gets a lot more complicated talking about the incumbent QB, who some love, some hate but most think is in the overall mediocre category all things considered. In that situation, you pretty much have to ensure you have SOMETHING at the position in order to simply field an offense.

Can we jettison Cousins and go with Mond? No idea. If the new staff feels we can, I'm OK rolling those dice. We have been spoiled by one thing for sure however - Cousins ability to stay healthy - so the "next" plan at QB had better include a Plan B.

[vikeinmontana]

I think many people would be well served to remember that football is the ultimate TEAM sport. Unless a team has the undisputed #1 offense while at the same time having the undisputed #32 defense, or vice versa, conversations like we've had all season are literally un-ending.

Our defense was not good. Several games they played well enough to win. Cousins and the offense were mediocre, but several times they did enough to win. The games that these two units did enough, we won. The games that one or both faltered, we lost. In the end, we lost more than we won, and missed the playoffs. Again.

Now we are in an exciting time where we are bringing in a new GM and Head Coach and I for one am very excited.

Sure there's a chance we get good people in both positions. Simply a chance of that isn't even close to getting me excited. I don't see good talent for those positions on the open market. I'm not expecting the Vikings to get better at the GM or HC positions.

Sorry you feel that way. In this situation I hope you’re wrong and I’m right.

I learned many years ago not to sweat the small stuff, and not be bothered by things out of my control. I love sports and love reading the opinions on this board. Some I agree with, others I disagree with. In regards to our current openings, you must have way more info on them than I do, as I don’t know the ins and outs of running a franchise. So for me, any time a change is made, I’m always excited about the possibility of improving and seeing the Vikes get to the promised land.

[VikingLord]

Sure there's a chance we get good people in both positions. Simply a chance of that isn't even close to getting me excited. I don't see good talent for those positions on the open market. I'm not expecting the Vikings to get better at the GM or HC positions.

Sticking with Spielman, Zimmer and Cousins would have been more exciting for you?

[VikingLord]

Yep Cousins being check down Charlie is a big lie made up by his detractors. Nobody cares if it's true or not if they can just say it often enough to make people believe it. Same thing with saying he wilts under pressure. He is better than most under pressure.

And he's got the playoff wins to prove it, right?

[Pondering Her Percy]

I think many people would be well served to remember that football is the ultimate TEAM sport. Unless a team has the undisputed #1 offense while at the same time having the undisputed #32 defense, or vice versa, conversations like we've had all season are literally un-ending.

Our defense was not good. Several games they played well enough to win. Cousins and the offense were mediocre, but several times they did enough to win. The games that these two units did enough, we won. The games that one or both faltered, we lost. In the end, we lost more than we won, and missed the playoffs. Again.

Now we are in an exciting time where we are bringing in a new GM and Head Coach and I for one am very excited.

Sure there's a chance we get good people in both positions. Simply a chance of that isn't even close to getting me excited. I don't see good talent for those positions on the open market. I'm not expecting the Vikings to get better at the GM or HC positions.

I will say I think we'll definitely be better on the HC front. GM not sure. QB, doubt it unless we trade for Wilson or Watson. But if we hire a guy like Raheem Morris, Nathaniel Hackett, or Bienemy, I think it's an instant upgrade. Mike Zimmer was REALLY bad his final few years and also REALLY toxic. There isnt much that could be worse than that right now.

[VikingsVictorious]

Sure there's a chance we get good people in both positions. Simply a chance of that isn't even close to getting me excited. I don't see good talent for those positions on the open market. I'm not expecting the Vikings to get better at the GM or HC positions.

Sticking with Spielman, Zimmer and Cousins would have been more exciting for you?

Nope that wouldn't have been exciting either, but I do like it that as of now we are sticking with Cousins.

[VikingsVictorious]

Yep Cousins being check down Charlie is a big lie made up by his detractors. Nobody cares if it's true or not if they can just say it often enough to make people believe it. Same thing with saying he wilts under pressure. He is better than most under pressure.

And he's got the playoff wins to prove it, right?

No QB has ever won a football game. Teams do that.

[VikingLord]

And he's got the playoff wins to prove it, right?

No QB has ever won a football game. Teams do that.

Well in Cousins' case, neither he nor the teams he's been on have been in, much less won, many of those games.

He's probably just been incredibly unlucky in his career.

All things considered though, I'd greatly prefer the Vikings find themselves a QB with better luck going forward.