Vikings "a good quarterback on a cheaper contract away from being dangerous"

[Pondering Her Percy]

But either way, I'm not going down the road of your cherry picked stats.

Can you explain this one? How is how few points a defense gives up per drive a "cherry picked stat" when the discussion is around how easy it is for a QB to win with said defense? What better stat to is there and why is it better?

You just tried to say that their 30 year old WR core was “great and in their prime” and you’re sitting here trying to defend their defense that was ranked 28th, 28th and 21st. Just think about that for a second. You’re literally sitting here defending those things.

And yeah you bring up their 2015 defense. Ok let’s use the one stat that “helps your argument” by simply saying they were average in points per drive. Well uhhhh they won the division that year. Ended up losing in the playoffs to the packers. You act like cousins didn’t win. Bringing that pathetic team to 9-7 was the ceiling for them. Not necessarily for cousins but that team in general.

And then the 2016 defense….ok they were 24th. Do you realize that 24th is not good? 16th is average. They were in the bottom 3rd of the league. And when it comes to total yards given up it was even worse.

So again, where are you going here. Let me repeat, those Washington teams were BAD. Not great, not good, not average. BAD. So stop sitting here and trying to tell me they were anything but that. They’ve been the most dysfunctional organization in football for how many years now? And as much as the Washington front office “didn’t trust Kirk” and didn’t want to give him a contract, that 2015 year was the best year they’ve had and will continue to have for years. They thought they made the right move getting rid of him but what the hell have they done since? Nothing but continue to go backwards. You’d think it would eventually get better but then they just trade for wentz!

Kirk cousins got them 9 wins and a division title in 2015 and 8 wins in 2016. They have yet to touch either of those win totals since.

People are underestimating how embarrassing and pathetic that franchise is. From ownership down. And they muster up 5-6 wins every year because that division has been disgustingly weak for quite a while outside of the year or two Philly was good. The powerhouse in that division is the notorious choker Dallas cowboys. Washington somehow won their division last year with a 7-9 record.

Again I’m not saying the redskins were the lions. But from an overall body of a franchise, they weren’t far off at all. A couple measly wins against teams like the giants and other bottom barrel teams they play, doesn’t make them some dominant team over Detroit.

Let’s put it this way, most years as of late, if the lions were playing Washington, home or away doesn’t matter, could you honestly say that Washington should be favored to win in every one of those games? To the point where you’d bet a lot of money on it? I sure hope not. Because even though the lions are bad, not a soul on earth would be surprised if Detroit beat them. Because they are both pathetically bad franchises.

You will never win this Washington argument with me. That team has been historically BAD for quite some time now. And you trying to argue against that, really makes this argument laughable

[CharVike]

Where are you pulling the extra 10-15 million from? Kirk is 45m against the cap in 2022 isn't he? A replacement QB is going to take up some of that, of course. If there's a rookie at pick #12 that you want that would be ideal really. That would be a 3m cap hit leaving something like 30-40m to spend on filling those holes.

If they could trade Kirk for a 1st somehow and potentially move up to get the QB they want it would free up a ton a money.

I know this is a "weak" draft class according to many but it doesn't seem like our GM sees it that way:



Vikings Leadership Pushes Back Against the Idea of a Weak 2022 Quarterback Draft Class

I was assuming that being a good quarterback away on a cheaper contract was referring to a QB a tier or 2 lower than Cousins, So id assume that quarterback would be making 25-30 million, 10-15 million cheaper. If we could hit a "good" qb on a draft pick that's a no brainer. I agree with CAM and someone else has mentioned it, why not draft a QB ever year till you get a franchise guy?

So you pick the Gino Torreta;s, John David Booty, Chad May, Tyler Thigpen ect..... what has that done for us? We drafted Gannon and Johnson who made the Super Bowl. We dumped them. I was pissed when we let Jones pass to the Patriots. That was a bonehead move by Speilman. I was pissed when we traded Johnson because we had a stiff who Green was in love with. The thing with picking guys is what will the plan be? Insert right off the bat even if they suck? Then the rest of the team will be pissed. How long is the development curve? I know there is no straight forward answer to this stuff. I think Gibbs did it the best. He made the Super Bowl with QB from different places. Doug Williams was a vet FA. He don't get much credit but he was a talented guy who was tough as hell. Took a beating and still kept going. Cousins is no HOFer but he's not a total stiff that some make him out to be. Our team has drafted badly. We are still paying that 1st rounder CB who avoided charges. Trea Waynes blows, Bradbury blows, Hughes blows. You can't draft like that and contend even with a cheap QB. I do know this if you have a stiff QB you are done. I've seen it for decades. Building through FA gives you the Trae Waynes of the world. Bums. Teams keep there good young players. We do it. They few that do have talent will be huge overpays which will ruin your CAP.

[CharVike]

I was assuming that being a good quarterback away on a cheaper contract was referring to a QB a tier or 2 lower than Cousins, So id assume that quarterback would be making 25-30 million, 10-15 million cheaper. If we could hit a "good" qb on a draft pick that's a no brainer. I agree with CAM and someone else has mentioned it, why not draft a QB ever year till you get a franchise guy?

So you pick the Gino Torreta;s, John David Booty, Chad May, Tyler Thigpen ect..... what has that done for us? We drafted Gannon and Johnson who made the Super Bowl. We dumped them. I was pissed when we let Jones pass to the Patriots. That was a bonehead move by Speilman. I was pissed when we traded Johnson because we had a stiff who Green was in love with. The thing with picking guys is what will the plan be? Insert right off the bat even if they suck? Then the rest of the team will be pissed. How long is the development curve? I know there is no straight forward answer to this stuff. I think Gibbs did it the best. He made the Super Bowl with QB from different places. Doug Williams was a vet FA. He don't get much credit but he was a talented guy who was tough as hell. Took a beating and still kept going. Cousins is no HOFer but he's not a total stiff that some make him out to be. Our team has drafted badly. We are still paying that 1st rounder CB who avoided charges. Trea Waynes blows, Bradbury blows, Hughes blows. You can't draft like that and contend even with a cheap QB. I do know this if you have a stiff QB you are done. I've seen it for decades. Building through FA gives you the Trae Waynes of the world. Bums. Teams keep there good young players. We do it. They few that do have talent will be huge overpays which will ruin your CAP.

Lets take an example. Cousins is dumped we pick a guy that plays like Mannion. How happy will JJ be when the guy can't hit him? Or every catch is a leap up or some other nonsense which puts you in a bad position. How long will he sacrifice his career and health before he says "I want out of this crap hole now". ? Of course the Cousin haters will say JJs play has nothing to do with him. That's not true. I seen him play with Mannion not to pretty. How is that building a team. Guys want a chance. A bum QB limits those chances. That's a joke way of doing it and it will never work.

[StumpHunter]

You will never win this Washington argument with me. That team has been historically BAD for quite some time now. And you trying to argue against that, really makes this argument laughable

That is fine, I just asked how scoring was a cherry picked stat...

[StumpHunter]

So you pick the Gino Torreta;s, John David Booty, Chad May, Tyler Thigpen ect..... what has that done for us? We drafted Gannon and Johnson who made the Super Bowl. We dumped them. I was pissed when we let Jones pass to the Patriots. That was a bonehead move by Speilman. I was pissed when we traded Johnson because we had a stiff who Green was in love with. The thing with picking guys is what will the plan be? Insert right off the bat even if they suck? Then the rest of the team will be pissed. How long is the development curve? I know there is no straight forward answer to this stuff. I think Gibbs did it the best. He made the Super Bowl with QB from different places. Doug Williams was a vet FA. He don't get much credit but he was a talented guy who was tough as hell. Took a beating and still kept going. Cousins is no HOFer but he's not a total stiff that some make him out to be. Our team has drafted badly. We are still paying that 1st rounder CB who avoided charges. Trea Waynes blows, Bradbury blows, Hughes blows. You can't draft like that and contend even with a cheap QB. I do know this if you have a stiff QB you are done. I've seen it for decades. Building through FA gives you the Trae Waynes of the world. Bums. Teams keep there good young players. We do it. They few that do have talent will be huge overpays which will ruin your CAP.

Lets take an example. Cousins is dumped we pick a guy that plays like Mannion. How happy will JJ be when the guy can't hit him? Or every catch is a leap up or some other nonsense which puts you in a bad position. How long will he sacrifice his career and health before he says "I want out of this crap hole now". ? Of course the Cousin haters will say JJs play has nothing to do with him. That's not true. I seen him play with Mannion not to pretty. How is that building a team. Guys want a chance. A bum QB limits those chances. That's a joke way of doing it and it will never work.

How happy is JJ with Cousins? Rudy and Diggs have both expressed their dissatisfaction with the QB through their actions or words. Why would JJ be any different?

You cannot run a team out of a position of a fear of getting worse. If we did that Rick and Zimmer would still be in charge.

[J. Kapp 11]

Here’s the way I see it.

Never once have the Vikings gone into a game where I thought, “Kirk Cousins is the difference today.” Explain it however you want, but Kirk Cousins is exactly a .500 quarterback after 10 years.

I won’t apologize for wanting better.

So does Stafford get a pass? I mean sure, now but prior to this season?

Yes.

Because every time we played the Lions, my concern was the same: "The only way we lose is if Stafford goes off." He was all they had, especially after Calvin Johnson retired. And Megatron retired because the Lions organization was a dumpster fire. Even though Zimmer and Spielman ran out of gas, they were 39-25 with two division titles in the 4 years before Cousins arrived. The Vikings' organization was far superior to Detroit's.

I recognize your mileage may vary, but that's my position. I've been waiting and hoping for Kirk Cousins to elevate this franchise. I'm tired of waiting. I'm ready for this franchise to move forward. They didn't hire KAM and KOC to do things the way they've always been done.

[J. Kapp 11]

I think the idea is that if the Vikings moved on from Cousins, we wouldn't start Sean Mannion next season. Could be wrong though.

Teddy? That sounds great. IMO I don't see them trading Cousins. If I were the new HC the last thing I would do is but all my eggs in a journeyman FA QB especially when our D is getting an overhaul. I would go in looking to score as much as possible and don't stop. Try to put the D into one dimensional mode and attack the QB. Hunter will be back and some young guys showed getting pressure. Of course what I want will be the complete opposite. We missed getting a QB last year again. It won't be this year unless we pick the kid from Pitt but he is far from Jones. Maybe the Wilf's told them to take your time. I doubt that. They want to sell tickets and the other stuff that goes with it. With no QB we won't compete and that was shown last year. Our team isn't good enough to compete with a stiff QB.

Just STOP!!!

Trading Cousins doesn't mean the Vikings will start Sean Mannion. In fact, I'd say the odds of Sean Mannion wearing a Vikings uniform next season are somewhere between slim and none.

You need to prepare yourself for big changes. The Vikings are in cap hell. For crying out loud, Kyle Rudolph is still on the books. Players are going to go. You can count on it. You and others will be pissed off because fan favorites like Danielle Hunter or Adam Thielen might not be Vikings anymore. But stand by because some guys are going to be released or traded. Seattle just released Bobby Wagner. Last year, the 49ers released DeForest Buckner. This is what teams do when they want to move forward. They get rid of huge contracts.

The Vikings didn't hire KAM and KOC to keep doing things the way they've always been done. These guys have profiles for the types of players they want for what they run. They get into the deep details, such as 10-yard splits on the 40, D-linemen who score below a certain time on 3-cone drills, and other actual metrics. Gone are the days of scouting analysis that stops at "that guys is a FOOTBALL PLAYER." It's going to be football's version of Moneyball, and I'm pretty sure Sean Mannion doesn't fit the mold for quarterbacks.

If the Vikings trade Cousins, they'll sign or draft someone else. We may very well see a year of a bridge QB. So what? Do you want the franchise to just keep doing what they've been doing? I don't.

[Pondering Her Percy]

How happy is JJ with Cousins? Rudy and Diggs have both expressed their dissatisfaction with the QB through their actions or words.

This is false.

Rudy never said anything about not liking Cousins. He simply didnt mention Cousins in his farewell post. Okay? As we all know, Rudy STILL thought he was a very good TE and had a hard time accepting that he was well past his prime. Rudy's playing time and overall usage quickly faded. It hurt our bodies watching him try to run. Nothing to do with Cousins, everything to do with his age. If anything, it could be Rudy is pointing the finger at Cousins for his career fading. But anyone with eyes, know it had nothing to do with Cousins. Rudy looked like Big Ben trying to play tight end and we had Irv waiting in the wings.

Also for the millionth time, Diggs himself literally came out and said he was blindsided by the switch to a run heavy scheme and that's why he wanted a fresh start. Not much more clear cut than that. But for 3 years now, you've sat there still trying to say Diggs didnt like Cousins. You're trying too hard again. I just ask that when you go google hunting for some quote that Diggs had to a stranger on the street about how he didnt like Cousins, please spare me!

You're using your own assumptions and narratives and putting them across as facts. Please stop

[fiestavike]

How happy is JJ with Cousins? Rudy and Diggs have both expressed their dissatisfaction with the QB through their actions or words.

This is false.

Rudy never said anything about not liking Cousins. He simply didnt mention Cousins in his farewell post. Okay? As we all know, Rudy STILL thought he was a very good TE and had a hard time accepting that he was well past his prime. Rudy's playing time and overall usage quickly faded. It hurt our bodies watching him try to run. Nothing to do with Cousins, everything to do with his age. If anything, it could be Rudy is pointing the finger at Cousins for his career fading. But anyone with eyes, know it had nothing to do with Cousins. Rudy looked like Big Ben trying to play tight end and we had Irv waiting in the wings.

Also for the millionth time, Diggs himself literally came out and said he was blindsided by the switch to a run heavy scheme and that's why he wanted a fresh start. Not much more clear cut than that. But for 3 years now, you've sat there still trying to say Diggs didnt like Cousins. You're trying too hard again. I just ask that when you go google hunting for some quote that Diggs had to a stranger on the street about how he didnt like Cousins, please spare me!

You're using your own assumptions and narratives and putting them across as facts. Please stop

Cousins sucks though.

[J. Kapp 11]

Well, as I’ve said time and time again.

From Jason La Confora at CBS:

Continue to hear from NFL execs that the
@Vikings are eager to move big contracts and reset their cap/payroll. A Kirk Cousins trade would not surprise me at this point. Still plenty of needy teams. QB would need QB to extend contract. Stay tuned.

And:

Specifically, La Canfora mentioned wide receiver Adam Thielen, running back Dalvin Cook, defensive tackle Michael Pierce and linebacker Eric Kendricks.

Y’all need to grab hold of something. The next couple of weeks are going to be very interesting.

Team to watch in the Cousins saga … the Colts. They have a solid roster that won 9 games last year, they have $70 million in cap space, and they have a history of employing 1-year mercenary quarterbacks (Philip Rivers, Carson Wentz).

They’re the one team I can think of that might take on Cousins without an extension. And they have no starting QB.

[fiestavike]

Well, as I’ve said time and time again.

From Jason La Confora at CBS:

Continue to hear from NFL execs that the
@Vikings are eager to move big contracts and reset their cap/payroll. A Kirk Cousins trade would not surprise me at this point. Still plenty of needy teams. QB would need QB to extend contract. Stay tuned.

And:

Specifically, La Canfora mentioned wide receiver Adam Thielen, running back Dalvin Cook, defensive tackle Michael Pierce and linebacker Eric Kendricks.

Y’all need to grab hold of something. The next couple of weeks are going to be very interesting.

Team to watch in the Cousins saga … the Colts. They have a solid roster that won 9 games last year, they have $70 million in cap space, and they have a history of employing 1-year mercenary quarterbacks (Philip Rivers, Carson Wentz).

They’re the one team I can think of that might take on Cousins without an extension. And they have no starting QB.

I also think Kirk would like Indianapolis, and that Indianapolis might like Kirk. I can't imagine the stiff trying to make it work in NY or NO, or MIA...people would just hate him and I think he'd be miserable living there.

[CharVike]

Lets take an example. Cousins is dumped we pick a guy that plays like Mannion. How happy will JJ be when the guy can't hit him? Or every catch is a leap up or some other nonsense which puts you in a bad position. How long will he sacrifice his career and health before he says "I want out of this crap hole now". ? Of course the Cousin haters will say JJs play has nothing to do with him. That's not true. I seen him play with Mannion not to pretty. How is that building a team. Guys want a chance. A bum QB limits those chances. That's a joke way of doing it and it will never work.

How happy is JJ with Cousins? Rudy and Diggs have both expressed their dissatisfaction with the QB through their actions or words. Why would JJ be any different?

You cannot run a team out of a position of a fear of getting worse. If we did that Rick and Zimmer would still be in charge.

JJ hates Cousins and thinks he sucks. OK you know the behind the scenes action. Why didn't JJ step up when Cousins was out and lead us to victory? Diggs was sick of Cousins? Why didn't he dominate the champ game and lead us to victory with Case? Diggs always had problems. Beyond that Diggs has not delivered for the Bills either. They are stuck in the same spot as before he got there. Playoff victims. They can't win on the road. Same as before. He probably blames Allen. Rudy? Who cares. He didn't help the Giants did he? He's crying because they drafted a guy that can run to take his spot. The party ended and he just couldn't walk away. Zim and Rudy are both crying. That tells the story. At least Speilman isn't crying. You don't know how to run a team and neither do I. I will guarantee this if you have a bum at QB you have no chance. That's why we got Tark back after we wasted our best defenses in 70, 71. Having a Cousins or Stafford or Jimmy G or whoever don't guarantee anything either but if you put a team around them they can play. Of course a stiff like Famous Jamesis means your done before you begin. Or any other stiff, bum or bridge QB. That's what you don't want to see. Once you have a good QB don't get rid of him unless you have something in the hole. There's not too many out there looking for work. They already have a job. The 49ers laid out how it's done. Maybe Mond is our next guy and Speilman left us with a present. Maybe we did it right. I doubt that. But we still need to improve our D to have a legit chance. Getting Hunter back is a huge step forward.

[CharVike]

Well, as I’ve said time and time again.

From Jason La Confora at CBS:

Continue to hear from NFL execs that the
@Vikings are eager to move big contracts and reset their cap/payroll. A Kirk Cousins trade would not surprise me at this point. Still plenty of needy teams. QB would need QB to extend contract. Stay tuned.

And:

Specifically, La Canfora mentioned wide receiver Adam Thielen, running back Dalvin Cook, defensive tackle Michael Pierce and linebacker Eric Kendricks.

Y’all need to grab hold of something. The next couple of weeks are going to be very interesting.

Team to watch in the Cousins saga … the Colts. They have a solid roster that won 9 games last year, they have $70 million in cap space, and they have a history of employing 1-year mercenary quarterbacks (Philip Rivers, Carson Wentz).

They’re the one team I can think of that might take on Cousins without an extension. And they have no starting QB.

I think you hit it on the head. Especially with the 1 year guys. They need to spend most of that 70 million anyway. Perhaps that's why they dumped Wentz. I found it hard to believe that they moved with no plan.

[Pondering Her Percy]

This is false.

Rudy never said anything about not liking Cousins. He simply didnt mention Cousins in his farewell post. Okay? As we all know, Rudy STILL thought he was a very good TE and had a hard time accepting that he was well past his prime. Rudy's playing time and overall usage quickly faded. It hurt our bodies watching him try to run. Nothing to do with Cousins, everything to do with his age. If anything, it could be Rudy is pointing the finger at Cousins for his career fading. But anyone with eyes, know it had nothing to do with Cousins. Rudy looked like Big Ben trying to play tight end and we had Irv waiting in the wings.

Also for the millionth time, Diggs himself literally came out and said he was blindsided by the switch to a run heavy scheme and that's why he wanted a fresh start. Not much more clear cut than that. But for 3 years now, you've sat there still trying to say Diggs didnt like Cousins. You're trying too hard again. I just ask that when you go google hunting for some quote that Diggs had to a stranger on the street about how he didnt like Cousins, please spare me!

You're using your own assumptions and narratives and putting them across as facts. Please stop

Cousins sucks though.

Ok? Are you trying to troll or what here?

[fiestavike]

Cousins sucks though.

Ok? Are you trying to troll or what here?

The point is, that all the arguments, rationalizations and statistics being bandied about don't change the simple fact that Kirk Cousins is a stiff.