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JJ/Thielen/Osborn the new Moss/Carter/Reed?

Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:00 pm
by Rhodes Closed
https://twitter.com/nickolsonnfl/status ... 10177?s=21
With 311 receiving yards on the year, K.J. Osborn is now officially the #Vikings' most productive WR3 over the last five years.

It's been six games.
Boy howdy, how amazing would it be if this kid gets 1000 receiving yards? He's currently on pace for 881 yards on the season.

Justin Jefferson has 542 yards, and Adam Thielen has 393 yards; that's on pace for 1,535 and 1,113 yards, respectively.

1,535 - Jefferson (proj.)
1,113 - Thielen (proj.)
and 881 - Osborn (proj.)

To put that into perspective:

The height of the Carter/Moss/Reed era, 1999, was: 1,241 yards, 1,413 yards, and 643 yards respectively.


Yeah, it might not be a very bold statement to say that Jefferson, Thielen, and Osborn may be as good as Moss, Carter, and Reed. Let's debate it fellas.

Re: JJ/Thielen/Osborn the new Moss/Carter/Reed?

Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:24 pm
by VikingLord
Rhodes Closed wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:00 pm https://twitter.com/nickolsonnfl/status ... 10177?s=21
With 311 receiving yards on the year, K.J. Osborn is now officially the #Vikings' most productive WR3 over the last five years.

It's been six games.
Boy howdy, how amazing would it be if this kid gets 1000 receiving yards? He's currently on pace for 881 yards on the season.

Justin Jefferson has 542 yards, and Adam Thielen has 393 yards; that's on pace for 1,535 and 1,113 yards, respectively.

1,535 - Jefferson (proj.)
1,113 - Thielen (proj.)
and 881 - Osborn (proj.)

To put that into perspective:

The height of the Carter/Moss/Reed era, 1999, was: 1,241 yards, 1,413 yards, and 643 yards respectively.


Yeah, it might not be a very bold statement to say that Jefferson, Thielen, and Osborn may be as good as Moss, Carter, and Reed. Let's debate it fellas.
The biggest problem with comparing those two groups of receivers is one group was perfectly complementary and thus very explosive, while the other group is much more similar in terms of skill set and generally less exposive. Of course, some of that has to do with the coaching and overall offensive philosophy, so its not apples-apples, but I see the 1998 group as having one of the best possession receivers of all time in Cris Carter, one of the best overall and deep threat receivers of all time in Randy Moss, and one of the best mid-range, find gaps in coverage receivers of his era in Jake Reed. Combined, the three of them were nearly unstoppable, and you couple those varied skill sets with the equally explosive running game the Vikings of that era had with Robert Smith capable of cracking off a TD on any given carry, and defenses could at best hope to slow them down most games.

This year's skill position trio has a little more of a similar set of skills than a complementary set. Each of them does kind of the same thing well. None are particularly scary or effective deep threats. All of them are good route runners and good at finding gaps in coverage. None of them are particularly great possession receivers, but all are capable of making some tough catches. If I had to compare them to the trio of Moss-Carter-Reed, I'd say all are closest to Reed in terms of base skills, but all have better than Reed skills. Put another way, none are as exceptional as Moss or Carter, but all are probably better than Reed was in his prime.

Of course, this team also has the running threat of Dalvin Cook, and when Cook is healthy he's every bit as dangerous as Smith ever was. He's just not as reliable a starter as Smith was IIRC.

Other factors for comparison are the QB and OL, both of which were pretty dang good during that 1998 season. That OL especially was super effective, and Cunningham was launching the ball all over the place with reckless abandon. This year's OL seems to have potential to continue to get better, and while Cousins is capable of launching the ball all over, he's never going to do it with reckless abandon.

One thing I will say about this year's offensive team, however, is I don't think they've played near their best football yet. When you look at the skill position players this team has, and you look at the draft capital invested in the OL, this team should be a top 5 offense easy. Whether they can actually get to that level I don't know, but the talent should be there to do it.

But that 1998 offense set records that stood for years, and even today is among the best of all time. Even if the 2021 offense starts to play to what I think its potential is, I don't think they're going to be the best offense in the league this year, much less in the all-time offense conversation. They're capable of being good, even very good, but I don't see them being great. I hope they make me eat those words.

Re: JJ/Thielen/Osborn the new Moss/Carter/Reed?

Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:18 pm
by makila
Nah. Too much apples to oranges comparison imo.

I love JJ, he isn't Moss. Osborn isn't close to Reed. I'll gladly eat those words in a season or two.

Re: JJ/Thielen/Osborn the new Moss/Carter/Reed?

Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:51 pm
by S197
While it would be great, I don’t think so. The rules are much more accommodating to WRs these days, it was much harder to be dominant back in the 90s. I’m just glad they may have found a WR3 finally.

Re: JJ/Thielen/Osborn the new Moss/Carter/Reed?

Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:30 am
by CharVike
This is a good topic. I think that the Moss trio was superior. Moss was the most explosive WR I have ever seen. Teams were scared to death of him and both safeties needed to stay back. He was always the fastest guy on the field and he had exceptional catch ability. If the ball was in his radius he would catch it. Carter was as good as they come. He could do it all and was a great leader and blocker. Reed is a guy who gets overlooked by playing with 2 HOFers. But he had what I like size and speed. Our group is good but we lack that explosive go for broke player. Jefferson who is still in the early stages has the possibility of becoming that. Certainly won't be a Moss as there is only one of those. But every guy we have at the skill position is handcuffed by Zims offensive philosophy except Cook who is exploited by that same philosophy. I like the 3 WR set. Since Carter/Lewis/Jones on up. That's the best way to attack. We aren't that type of offensive team under Zim's offensive plan. He has a 3 yard and a cloud of dust mind set. Burn the time off and get into FG range. Once 3 are on the board play D and continue to burn the clock.

Re: JJ/Thielen/Osborn the new Moss/Carter/Reed?

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:49 pm
by chicagopurple
PULEEEZ! Heresay!!
Those guys, especially Carter played in an era where defense was allowed. QBs got clobbered, WRs got mugged. Now a days if a safety stares too hard at the WR, its Pass Interference......You cannot remotely claim equivalence. Moreover, Carter/Moss actually were part of a winning team, our current team has accomplished nothing.

Re: JJ/Thielen/Osborn the new Moss/Carter/Reed?

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:46 pm
by Rhodes Closed
chicagopurple wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:49 pm PULEEEZ! Heresay!!
Those guys, especially Carter played in an era where defense was allowed. QBs got clobbered, WRs got mugged. Now a days if a safety stares too hard at the WR, its Pass Interference......You cannot remotely claim equivalence. Moreover, Carter/Moss actually were part of a winning team, our current team has accomplished nothing.
Carter/Moss were a part of 48-0 against the Giants in the NFC Championship. :flamed:

Re: JJ/Thielen/Osborn the new Moss/Carter/Reed?

Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:32 pm
by RandyMoss84
Rhodes Closed wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:46 pm
chicagopurple wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:49 pm PULEEEZ! Heresay!!
Those guys, especially Carter played in an era where defense was allowed. QBs got clobbered, WRs got mugged. Now a days if a safety stares too hard at the WR, its Pass Interference......You cannot remotely claim equivalence. Moreover, Carter/Moss actually were part of a winning team, our current team has accomplished nothing.
Carter/Moss were a part of 48-0 against the Giants in the NFC Championship. :flamed:
You mean 41-0

Re: JJ/Thielen/Osborn the new Moss/Carter/Reed?

Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:41 am
by RandyMoss84
Please stop the comparison, there will never be another Moss, Carter, and Reed, just let Jefferson, Thielen, and Osborn on their own category

Re: JJ/Thielen/Osborn the new Moss/Carter/Reed?

Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:48 pm
by Maelstrom88
All three of the former are better than the guys we have today. I love the current group and want them to do well but I'm not that drunk on the koolaid :ripple: