Championship Roster

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VikingLord
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by VikingLord »

808vikingsfan wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:21 pm The difference is what Cousins can't do. He's not stability, he usually starts slow, has some good games, and lays a stinker here and there. more often than not, he won't make the play that makes the difference. That's why he's a .500 QB. He's a crutch for this team to become one of the top 4.
Is the difference what Cousins can't do, or what he does?

Does Cousins just fail to make plays you feel he should be making, or is he doing things that actively lose games for the team (like throwing picks, fumbling, taking bad sacks)?

The latter are objectively bad and yeah, if Cousins is doing those things then it might not matter how good the rest of the team is. But if he's just failing to rise above when the rest of the team isn't carrying its water, then it stands to reason if the rest of the team is improved, Cousins should be fine, or at the very least won't be a liability.

Most of the criticism on here leveled at Cousins seems to be that he doesn't turn into Superman often enough, not that he is making terrible plays that snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by VikingLord »

StumpHunter wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:17 pm Average points scored against top 10 passing defenses since 2018:
Mahomes: 31
Brees: 29
Brady: 23
Wilson: 22
Dak: 21
Stafford: 21
Rodgers: 20
Teddy:19
Ryan: 19
Carr: 18
Goff: 18
Cousins: 15
Are these point totals adjusted to reflect only offensive points scored, and do they reflect only points scored via passing, which presumably can be directly traced back to the listed QB?

The stats you posted show Cousins has some room for improvement for sure, but they also show, at least in my view, that he can perform much better against better passing defenses. If he can do so well against poor passing defenses compared to his peers, he should be able to improve against the better ones too. Its probably more a mental adjustment than anything else, and with a better overall team around him that can take the pressure off, its one I believe he can make.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by StumpHunter »

VikingLord wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:14 am
StumpHunter wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:17 pm Average points scored against top 10 passing defenses since 2018:
Mahomes: 31
Brees: 29
Brady: 23
Wilson: 22
Dak: 21
Stafford: 21
Rodgers: 20
Teddy:19
Ryan: 19
Carr: 18
Goff: 18
Cousins: 15
Are these point totals adjusted to reflect only offensive points scored, and do they reflect only points scored via passing, which presumably can be directly traced back to the listed QB?

The stats you posted show Cousins has some room for improvement for sure, but they also show, at least in my view, that he can perform much better against better passing defenses. If he can do so well against poor passing defenses compared to his peers, he should be able to improve against the better ones too. Its probably more a mental adjustment than anything else, and with a better overall team around him that can take the pressure off, its one I believe he can make.
These are only offensive points scored and do not only reflect points scored via the pass versus the run, something that benefits a QB who has played with a top 5 RB the past 2 seasons, not hurt him.

The stats I showed tell us that Cousins struggles against good defenses and pads his stats against bad ones. If he could do what he does against bad defense when he faces good defenses he would have 9 seasons in.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by S197 »

VikingLord wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:07 am
808vikingsfan wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:21 pm The difference is what Cousins can't do. He's not stability, he usually starts slow, has some good games, and lays a stinker here and there. more often than not, he won't make the play that makes the difference. That's why he's a .500 QB. He's a crutch for this team to become one of the top 4.
Is the difference what Cousins can't do, or what he does?

Does Cousins just fail to make plays you feel he should be making, or is he doing things that actively lose games for the team (like throwing picks, fumbling, taking bad sacks)?

The latter are objectively bad and yeah, if Cousins is doing those things then it might not matter how good the rest of the team is. But if he's just failing to rise above when the rest of the team isn't carrying its water, then it stands to reason if the rest of the team is improved, Cousins should be fine, or at the very least won't be a liability.

Most of the criticism on here leveled at Cousins seems to be that he doesn't turn into Superman often enough, not that he is making terrible plays that snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Not directed at me but when we get "bad" Cousins it's a combination of the two. In the SF playoff game, he was flat out missing guys that were open. Sage Rosenfels did a great job of breaking this down where there were 7-8 plays that were there and Cousins just failed to see them.

Or the famous "throw the #### flag route" rant by Jefferson.

He also doesn't have great spacial awareness. It's why he fumbles a lot. Part of that is poor OL play but it's also because he tends to not feel pressure as well as some of the top tier QBs. Sliding short of the 1st down marker against KC is another really good example of this, you need to be aware of where you are on the field and where those sticks are.

I don't think he needs to be Superman but I wish he was more consistent. He has enough weapons around him he doesn't need to be spectacular. All QBs have bad games, I just feel like Cousins is much more volatile. Maybe some of that conservatism is Zimmer chirping in his ear, who knows, but I wish we'd get "you like that?!?" Kirk more often.

The thing with Cousins is he's talented enough to be polarizing. You can make a convincing case pro and con for him. But if you look outside of Vikings fan bias, why is this guy rated somewhere around #10-#12 on a consistent basis against his peers? I think it's that volatility, you just can't predict which Kirk shows up on Sunday.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by CharVike »

StumpHunter wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:07 am
CharVike wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:34 pm
Based on this Teddy looks like one of the best. Teams will be chasing him once he gets off the Broncos bench. Dak will dominate that garbage division he plays him. That's what winners do. Hello he has the easiest walk. Let him go against Rodgers or Brady. That will tell the story. Say bye bye at that point.
Based on those numbers Teddy is below average against good defenses and it also doesn't include his 2020 #s. This isn't a top 10 list.

Dak plays in the same garbage division that Cousins did before we signed him, but his division has nothing to do with these numbers since these numbers look at how he did against the best defenses, not against his garbage division.

Ironic that you go after Dak for having most of his success against bad teams while defending Cousins. It is almost like you have some sort of bias against Dak.
Not at all. He's called a winner. A winner of what? He plays in a division that is weak. It's a cakewalk for Dak. Why is that hard to see? You can pick out any stat you want to make Cousins look bad. What's wrong with 35 TD passes. I know that's average. Take a look at the 2018 GB game week 2. Cousins put up 22 points in the 4th quarter and you always say he never brings a team back. He has never shown that ability at anytime since he's been here. Carlson missed two overtime FGs along with another during the game and was cut. That had nothing to do with Cousins. He put our team in position for the win. That was against our arch rival in their house. Plus our D letting them keep kicking field goals every time we came back. A D needs to help a little bit. But that's only my opinion. Cousins did throw an interception which is a horrible play. But he also had 4 TDs and over 400 yards passing. You don't see many teams loss when a QB plays like that on the road. But when your FG kicker can't make a kick and your defense can't stop the other team you won't win many games. I don't care who the QB is. Cousins was under big time heat. I seen a great pass with a guy diving at his legs who then drilled him. He hangs tough with this POS offensive line we have always had with him and takes the hits and keeps on clicking. Never stops. Never misses time. That's a tough QB. You'll get what you want very soon and Cousins will be gone. If Speilman is smart he'd do a deal before he leaves for nothing. But he's not smart enough for that.
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Re: Championship Roster

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S197 wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:30 pm
VikingLord wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:07 am

Is the difference what Cousins can't do, or what he does?

Does Cousins just fail to make plays you feel he should be making, or is he doing things that actively lose games for the team (like throwing picks, fumbling, taking bad sacks)?

The latter are objectively bad and yeah, if Cousins is doing those things then it might not matter how good the rest of the team is. But if he's just failing to rise above when the rest of the team isn't carrying its water, then it stands to reason if the rest of the team is improved, Cousins should be fine, or at the very least won't be a liability.

Most of the criticism on here leveled at Cousins seems to be that he doesn't turn into Superman often enough, not that he is making terrible plays that snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Not directed at me but when we get "bad" Cousins it's a combination of the two. In the SF playoff game, he was flat out missing guys that were open. Sage Rosenfels did a great job of breaking this down where there were 7-8 plays that were there and Cousins just failed to see them.

Or the famous "throw the #### flag route" rant by Jefferson.

He also doesn't have great spacial awareness. It's why he fumbles a lot. Part of that is poor OL play but it's also because he tends to not feel pressure as well as some of the top tier QBs. Sliding short of the 1st down marker against KC is another really good example of this, you need to be aware of where you are on the field and where those sticks are.

I don't think he needs to be Superman but I wish he was more consistent. He has enough weapons around him he doesn't need to be spectacular. All QBs have bad games, I just feel like Cousins is much more volatile. Maybe some of that conservatism is Zimmer chirping in his ear, who knows, but I wish we'd get "you like that?!?" Kirk more often.

The thing with Cousins is he's talented enough to be polarizing. You can make a convincing case pro and con for him. But if you look outside of Vikings fan bias, why is this guy rated somewhere around #10-#12 on a consistent basis against his peers? I think it's that volatility, you just can't predict which Kirk shows up on Sunday.
Thanks a lot for bringing up the short slide against KC. I had blocked that one out of my mind. It was one of his 2 worst plays ever as a Viking. The other I have blocked out also. Kirk plays well most of the time. If the rest of the team plays as well we are going to win a lot of football games and this year the rest of the team is looking pretty good.
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Re: Championship Roster

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S197 wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:30 pm
VikingLord wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:07 am

Is the difference what Cousins can't do, or what he does?

Does Cousins just fail to make plays you feel he should be making, or is he doing things that actively lose games for the team (like throwing picks, fumbling, taking bad sacks)?

The latter are objectively bad and yeah, if Cousins is doing those things then it might not matter how good the rest of the team is. But if he's just failing to rise above when the rest of the team isn't carrying its water, then it stands to reason if the rest of the team is improved, Cousins should be fine, or at the very least won't be a liability.

Most of the criticism on here leveled at Cousins seems to be that he doesn't turn into Superman often enough, not that he is making terrible plays that snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Not directed at me but when we get "bad" Cousins it's a combination of the two. In the SF playoff game, he was flat out missing guys that were open. Sage Rosenfels did a great job of breaking this down where there were 7-8 plays that were there and Cousins just failed to see them.

Or the famous "throw the #### flag route" rant by Jefferson.

He also doesn't have great spacial awareness. It's why he fumbles a lot. Part of that is poor OL play but it's also because he tends to not feel pressure as well as some of the top tier QBs. Sliding short of the 1st down marker against KC is another really good example of this, you need to be aware of where you are on the field and where those sticks are.

I don't think he needs to be Superman but I wish he was more consistent. He has enough weapons around him he doesn't need to be spectacular. All QBs have bad games, I just feel like Cousins is much more volatile. Maybe some of that conservatism is Zimmer chirping in his ear, who knows, but I wish we'd get "you like that?!?" Kirk more often.

The thing with Cousins is he's talented enough to be polarizing. You can make a convincing case pro and con for him. But if you look outside of Vikings fan bias, why is this guy rated somewhere around #10-#12 on a consistent basis against his peers? I think it's that volatility, you just can't predict which Kirk shows up on Sunday.
He's definitely got some shortcomings, but the issue at the heart of my original question is can Cousins get it done if the team around him is otherwise good enough to get it done?

The baseline for me is can the Vikings win with Cousins as-is? Can they even win it all with him as-is?

When I look at some of the QBs who have gone to and won Superbowls over the last 20 years, some of them were no better than Cousins and there is an argument that some were worse. Now, maybe those worse ones managed to play out of their minds during the playoffs, but all that tells me is that it is possible for an otherwise average to above-average QB to get hot at the right time.

If the overall team is good enough, the QB doesn't have to be Superman for the team to win. While it remains to be seen if this version of the Vikings can be good enough, if they prove to be good enough I think they can win it all with Cousins at QB. Focusing on Cousins as the determining factor as to whether this team is going to compete for a Superbowl is barking up the wrong tree. It is the rest of the team, specifically the weak spots of last year, that need to improve much more substantially if they are going to sniff the Superbowl. Cousins just has to remain consistent. Ideally he plays better, but even if he doesn't, if the rest of the team plays better and more consistently around him, they should have a good chance.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by VikingLord »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:10 pm Thanks a lot for bringing up the short slide against KC. I had blocked that one out of my mind. It was one of his 2 worst plays ever as a Viking. The other I have blocked out also. Kirk plays well most of the time. If the rest of the team plays as well we are going to win a lot of football games and this year the rest of the team is looking pretty good.
Cousins has had his share of questionable and poor plays over the years. Still, name a QB who hasn't. Every player makes mistakes, including Tom Brady. The main difference for Cousins is that he doesn't get bailed out by his team the way those other QBs do. Tom Brady threw 3 picks against the Packers in the playoffs last year, but he wasn't punished for it because his defense cleaned up the mess for him. If Cousins throws those instead of Brady, the stats show the same performance, but if the Vikings defense doesn't clean it up, Cousins takes the heat.

There are very few losses that can be laid directly at the feet of Cousins alone, if any. In some of them he might have failed to make a play that could have won the game, but he's not out there throwing games away that were otherwise won, either. Most of the frustration with him comes from him not making the super hero play in a critical situation when he's getting paid super hero money.
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Re: Championship Roster

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S197 wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:30 pm
VikingLord wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:07 am

Is the difference what Cousins can't do, or what he does?

Does Cousins just fail to make plays you feel he should be making, or is he doing things that actively lose games for the team (like throwing picks, fumbling, taking bad sacks)?

The latter are objectively bad and yeah, if Cousins is doing those things then it might not matter how good the rest of the team is. But if he's just failing to rise above when the rest of the team isn't carrying its water, then it stands to reason if the rest of the team is improved, Cousins should be fine, or at the very least won't be a liability.

Most of the criticism on here leveled at Cousins seems to be that he doesn't turn into Superman often enough, not that he is making terrible plays that snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Not directed at me but when we get "bad" Cousins it's a combination of the two. In the SF playoff game, he was flat out missing guys that were open. Sage Rosenfels did a great job of breaking this down where there were 7-8 plays that were there and Cousins just failed to see them.

Or the famous "throw the #### flag route" rant by Jefferson.

He also doesn't have great spacial awareness. It's why he fumbles a lot. Part of that is poor OL play but it's also because he tends to not feel pressure as well as some of the top tier QBs. Sliding short of the 1st down marker against KC is another really good example of this, you need to be aware of where you are on the field and where those sticks are.

I don't think he needs to be Superman but I wish he was more consistent. He has enough weapons around him he doesn't need to be spectacular. All QBs have bad games, I just feel like Cousins is much more volatile. Maybe some of that conservatism is Zimmer chirping in his ear, who knows, but I wish we'd get "you like that?!?" Kirk more often.

The thing with Cousins is he's talented enough to be polarizing. You can make a convincing case pro and con for him. But if you look outside of Vikings fan bias, why is this guy rated somewhere around #10-#12 on a consistent basis against his peers? I think it's that volatility, you just can't predict which Kirk shows up on Sunday.
What the media says means nothing. They place R Wilson as one of the best. All people need to do is look at last year. He was heading for MVP and then started playing really bad and turning the ball over. Talk about not being consistent he had his problems also. See below.
But starting in Buffalo in Week 9, everything started to unravel. Though Wilson threw for 390 yards in a 44-34 loss to the Bills, he threw a pair of costly interceptions and coughed up two fumbles that were recovered by the defense. The next week, he once again threw two critical picks and lost a fumble in a 23-16 road loss to the Rams, dropping the Seahawks to 6-3 and out of first place.
That's 7 turnovers in 2 games. He didn't play as well the last part of the season and crap the bed with his pick 6 in a playoff loss. He had problems but nobody sees it. The media don't report it either. That Hawk D improved greatly late in the year also. Wilson had 390 yards in a loss. If Cousins did that it would be garbage yards. It don't work the same for both players. Cousins came here but there were several teams offering huge cash. If we cut him he would get many offers again. Why is that? Because he sucks?
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by S197 »

VikingLord wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:37 pm
S197 wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:30 pm

Not directed at me but when we get "bad" Cousins it's a combination of the two. In the SF playoff game, he was flat out missing guys that were open. Sage Rosenfels did a great job of breaking this down where there were 7-8 plays that were there and Cousins just failed to see them.

Or the famous "throw the #### flag route" rant by Jefferson.

He also doesn't have great spacial awareness. It's why he fumbles a lot. Part of that is poor OL play but it's also because he tends to not feel pressure as well as some of the top tier QBs. Sliding short of the 1st down marker against KC is another really good example of this, you need to be aware of where you are on the field and where those sticks are.

I don't think he needs to be Superman but I wish he was more consistent. He has enough weapons around him he doesn't need to be spectacular. All QBs have bad games, I just feel like Cousins is much more volatile. Maybe some of that conservatism is Zimmer chirping in his ear, who knows, but I wish we'd get "you like that?!?" Kirk more often.

The thing with Cousins is he's talented enough to be polarizing. You can make a convincing case pro and con for him. But if you look outside of Vikings fan bias, why is this guy rated somewhere around #10-#12 on a consistent basis against his peers? I think it's that volatility, you just can't predict which Kirk shows up on Sunday.
He's definitely got some shortcomings, but the issue at the heart of my original question is can Cousins get it done if the team around him is otherwise good enough to get it done?

The baseline for me is can the Vikings win with Cousins as-is? Can they even win it all with him as-is?

When I look at some of the QBs who have gone to and won Superbowls over the last 20 years, some of them were no better than Cousins and there is an argument that some were worse. Now, maybe those worse ones managed to play out of their minds during the playoffs, but all that tells me is that it is possible for an otherwise average to above-average QB to get hot at the right time.

If the overall team is good enough, the QB doesn't have to be Superman for the team to win. While it remains to be seen if this version of the Vikings can be good enough, if they prove to be good enough I think they can win it all with Cousins at QB. Focusing on Cousins as the determining factor as to whether this team is going to compete for a Superbowl is barking up the wrong tree. It is the rest of the team, specifically the weak spots of last year, that need to improve much more substantially if they are going to sniff the Superbowl. Cousins just has to remain consistent. Ideally he plays better, but even if he doesn't, if the rest of the team plays better and more consistently around him, they should have a good chance.
Yeah Cousins is very much a known commodity at this point. We know what he does and doesn't bring to the team. One thing he's been consistent with is staying healthy, which is something we haven't had in the last 10+ years.

I think if the team can do better in the trenches then they can be very successful with Cousins. He plays best when Cook is able to take a brunt of the load and our defenses biggest issue last year was getting gashed by the run, giving up long drives that wore them down over the course of the game.

I'm pretty bullish we can fix our run D. The OL, despite all the draft capital still worries me. And then of course there is special teams, which has been flat out terrible for far too long. Strides in those areas and some better luck in the injury department will up the odds immensely. Hopefully Rogers doesn't play this year too :twisted:
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by StumpHunter »

CharVike wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:35 pm
S197 wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:30 pm

Not directed at me but when we get "bad" Cousins it's a combination of the two. In the SF playoff game, he was flat out missing guys that were open. Sage Rosenfels did a great job of breaking this down where there were 7-8 plays that were there and Cousins just failed to see them.

Or the famous "throw the #### flag route" rant by Jefferson.

He also doesn't have great spacial awareness. It's why he fumbles a lot. Part of that is poor OL play but it's also because he tends to not feel pressure as well as some of the top tier QBs. Sliding short of the 1st down marker against KC is another really good example of this, you need to be aware of where you are on the field and where those sticks are.

I don't think he needs to be Superman but I wish he was more consistent. He has enough weapons around him he doesn't need to be spectacular. All QBs have bad games, I just feel like Cousins is much more volatile. Maybe some of that conservatism is Zimmer chirping in his ear, who knows, but I wish we'd get "you like that?!?" Kirk more often.

The thing with Cousins is he's talented enough to be polarizing. You can make a convincing case pro and con for him. But if you look outside of Vikings fan bias, why is this guy rated somewhere around #10-#12 on a consistent basis against his peers? I think it's that volatility, you just can't predict which Kirk shows up on Sunday.
What the media says means nothing. They place R Wilson as one of the best. All people need to do is look at last year. He was heading for MVP and then started playing really bad and turning the ball over. Talk about not being consistent he had his problems also. See below.
But starting in Buffalo in Week 9, everything started to unravel. Though Wilson threw for 390 yards in a 44-34 loss to the Bills, he threw a pair of costly interceptions and coughed up two fumbles that were recovered by the defense. The next week, he once again threw two critical picks and lost a fumble in a 23-16 road loss to the Rams, dropping the Seahawks to 6-3 and out of first place.
That's 7 turnovers in 2 games. He didn't play as well the last part of the season and crap the bed with his pick 6 in a playoff loss. He had problems but nobody sees it. The media don't report it either. That Hawk D improved greatly late in the year also. Wilson had 390 yards in a loss. If Cousins did that it would be garbage yards. It don't work the same for both players. Cousins came here but there were several teams offering huge cash. If we cut him he would get many offers again. Why is that? Because he sucks?
Yes, yes we know. You don't like R Wilson or Dak type of QBs. They don't fit the mold of what you feel a QB should be.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by VikingsVictorious »

VikingLord wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:37 pm
S197 wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:30 pm

Not directed at me but when we get "bad" Cousins it's a combination of the two. In the SF playoff game, he was flat out missing guys that were open. Sage Rosenfels did a great job of breaking this down where there were 7-8 plays that were there and Cousins just failed to see them.

Or the famous "throw the #### flag route" rant by Jefferson.

He also doesn't have great spacial awareness. It's why he fumbles a lot. Part of that is poor OL play but it's also because he tends to not feel pressure as well as some of the top tier QBs. Sliding short of the 1st down marker against KC is another really good example of this, you need to be aware of where you are on the field and where those sticks are.

I don't think he needs to be Superman but I wish he was more consistent. He has enough weapons around him he doesn't need to be spectacular. All QBs have bad games, I just feel like Cousins is much more volatile. Maybe some of that conservatism is Zimmer chirping in his ear, who knows, but I wish we'd get "you like that?!?" Kirk more often.

The thing with Cousins is he's talented enough to be polarizing. You can make a convincing case pro and con for him. But if you look outside of Vikings fan bias, why is this guy rated somewhere around #10-#12 on a consistent basis against his peers? I think it's that volatility, you just can't predict which Kirk shows up on Sunday.
He's definitely got some shortcomings, but the issue at the heart of my original question is can Cousins get it done if the team around him is otherwise good enough to get it done?

The baseline for me is can the Vikings win with Cousins as-is? Can they even win it all with him as-is?

When I look at some of the QBs who have gone to and won Superbowls over the last 20 years, some of them were no better than Cousins and there is an argument that some were worse. Now, maybe those worse ones managed to play out of their minds during the playoffs, but all that tells me is that it is possible for an otherwise average to above-average QB to get hot at the right time.

If the overall team is good enough, the QB doesn't have to be Superman for the team to win. While it remains to be seen if this version of the Vikings can be good enough, if they prove to be good enough I think they can win it all with Cousins at QB. Focusing on Cousins as the determining factor as to whether this team is going to compete for a Superbowl is barking up the wrong tree. It is the rest of the team, specifically the weak spots of last year, that need to improve much more substantially if they are going to sniff the Superbowl. Cousins just has to remain consistent. Ideally he plays better, but even if he doesn't, if the rest of the team plays better and more consistently around him, they should have a good chance.
Great Post. You explained it better than I could have.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by VikingsVictorious »

VikingLord wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:49 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:10 pm Thanks a lot for bringing up the short slide against KC. I had blocked that one out of my mind. It was one of his 2 worst plays ever as a Viking. The other I have blocked out also. Kirk plays well most of the time. If the rest of the team plays as well we are going to win a lot of football games and this year the rest of the team is looking pretty good.
Cousins has had his share of questionable and poor plays over the years. Still, name a QB who hasn't. Every player makes mistakes, including Tom Brady. The main difference for Cousins is that he doesn't get bailed out by his team the way those other QBs do. Tom Brady threw 3 picks against the Packers in the playoffs last year, but he wasn't punished for it because his defense cleaned up the mess for him. If Cousins throws those instead of Brady, the stats show the same performance, but if the Vikings defense doesn't clean it up, Cousins takes the heat.

There are very few losses that can be laid directly at the feet of Cousins alone, if any. In some of them he might have failed to make a play that could have won the game, but he's not out there throwing games away that were otherwise won, either. Most of the frustration with him comes from him not making the super hero play in a critical situation when he's getting paid super hero money.
I want to clarify why I call the slide Cousins worst play as a Viking. He's made some plays that had worse immediate results, but the Vikings had that game won if Kirk takes the wide open yardage for the first down. I couldn't believe my eyes when he went into the slide. Cousins is far from being a coward. he stands in there and takes his licks sometimes to a fault. I seriously didn't believe what I saw.
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VikingsVictorious
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Re: Championship Roster

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S197 wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:34 pm
VikingLord wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:37 pm

He's definitely got some shortcomings, but the issue at the heart of my original question is can Cousins get it done if the team around him is otherwise good enough to get it done?

The baseline for me is can the Vikings win with Cousins as-is? Can they even win it all with him as-is?

When I look at some of the QBs who have gone to and won Superbowls over the last 20 years, some of them were no better than Cousins and there is an argument that some were worse. Now, maybe those worse ones managed to play out of their minds during the playoffs, but all that tells me is that it is possible for an otherwise average to above-average QB to get hot at the right time.

If the overall team is good enough, the QB doesn't have to be Superman for the team to win. While it remains to be seen if this version of the Vikings can be good enough, if they prove to be good enough I think they can win it all with Cousins at QB. Focusing on Cousins as the determining factor as to whether this team is going to compete for a Superbowl is barking up the wrong tree. It is the rest of the team, specifically the weak spots of last year, that need to improve much more substantially if they are going to sniff the Superbowl. Cousins just has to remain consistent. Ideally he plays better, but even if he doesn't, if the rest of the team plays better and more consistently around him, they should have a good chance.
Yeah Cousins is very much a known commodity at this point. We know what he does and doesn't bring to the team. One thing he's been consistent with is staying healthy, which is something we haven't had in the last 10+ years.

I think if the team can do better in the trenches then they can be very successful with Cousins. He plays best when Cook is able to take a brunt of the load and our defenses biggest issue last year was getting gashed by the run, giving up long drives that wore them down over the course of the game.

I'm pretty bullish we can fix our run D. The OL, despite all the draft capital still worries me. And then of course there is special teams, which has been flat out terrible for far too long. Strides in those areas and some better luck in the injury department will up the odds immensely. Hopefully Rogers doesn't play this year too :twisted:
I don't give a sheet about whether Erin plays or not. :hitfan:
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Re: Championship Roster

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SkorNorth is anti-Cousins, but still believe the Vikings have a championship roster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK9LIFvQgnM

It will of course come down to health and getting hot at the right time.
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