Championship Roster

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CharVike
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by CharVike »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:24 pm
Maelstrom88 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:40 pm The defense is pretty deep but I still see the Bucs and to a lesser extent the Packers as the teams to beat in the NFC. I think the Vikings have a better team than the Packers but Rodgers > Cousins and that is the great equalizer. The Bucs are just unfair and woul d take a monumental effort and luck to defeat but anything can happen when it's one and done.
The Bucs got hot in the playoffs last year. The regular season they were an afterthought. I'm not saying we're better, but we're every bit as good IMO.
Every team that makes a Super Bowl get's hot in the playoffs. There GM Jason Licht is a leader not a follower. I thought when he signed Brady it was a terrible move. An old immobile QB. That goes against what every so called football expert would suggest. He kicked his failed mobile inaccurate QB pick Winston down the road. So he has made his share of mistakes also. He has built a very good offensive line that is deep. They lost a starting G for the Super Bowl run against Wash in the playoffs and plugged the next guy in and kept rolling. No drop off. Found this below.
The Bucs traded up one spot in the 2020 NFL Draft to nab the Iowa product at 13 overall. Wirfs ended up being worth that and then some, as he gave up just one sack on 1,352 snaps in the regular season.
Trader down Rick would never even consider a move like that which was proven again this year. He moved away from the best prospects to collect picks that again where further away from the top prospects. Old dog same old tricks. Results will be the same.
Licht like all GMs has made mistakes but I give the guy credit he learns from his mistakes and changes his approach. I think this year he made a great pick with Kyle Trask. He's a guy that fell off the table because of his lack of mobility. But he has a quick delivery and is accurate. He took what fell in his lap and didn't even need a QB. Rick would never do that. Single focused which isn't a great trait.
Right now our talent level isn't at the Bucs level. Especially on the OL it's not even close. There C is a dam good player who provided a consistent anchor and leader in the middle of the line. Our guy has no anchor. Can't hold the point very well and Rick didn't even address this issue. In the 3rd round the Steelers picked a C who should have been in our pocket to challenge Bradbury. Make him earn his roster spot and play better. We had the pick and the player was there.
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Re: Championship Roster

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Pondering Her Percy wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:04 am
Maelstrom88 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:24 pm

Nah. Brady took awhile to get on the same page with his weapons without training camp and he was learning a new scheme. He's gonna light it up this year. Cousins folds in big moments. Also the Bucs offensive line is top 3 in the league and ours is unproven. Antonio Brown in the slot is just not fair and Godwin is better than Thielen. Their 3rd TE is better than Irv Smith. Their defense is young and loaded. JPP and Barrett are great and Suh and Vea clog and push the middle. White and David are way better than Barr. Kendricks is close to as good as them. Their corners are young, fast and tall and Winfield is looking like every bit the player his dad was. I'd take Cook over any of their backs but their stable of backs is better. If Joe Tryon can provide pass rush depth that's another thing to worry about.
Lol sorry but Chris Godwin is not better than Adam Thielen. Their 3rd TE is better than Irv Smith? What? Kendricks is arguably the best MLB in the NFL FYI. Not sure where you're getting some of this from but I can tell you you are quite a bit off in some of these areas.
I'd take a 25 year old Godwin over a 30 year old Thielen. Put them both on the open market and I guarantee Godwin makes more. Thielen has been better but is he going forward? They have had pretty similar numbers when you compare the last two seasons that they were healthy. Thielen had a ton of TDs last year but he doesn't have to compete with Evans and Gronk for jump balls in the endzone.

Irv has done next to nothing since coming in to the league. OJ Howard and Cameron Brate are both better at this time than him. Now maybe he breaks out this year and maybe they should have been targeting him more but as of now I'd take the Bucs third TE over him.

Devin White is 22 while Kendricks is 29. Kendricks is going to lose a step soon and White is probably the fastest linebacker in the league. White had 140 tackles and 9 sacks last year (Kendricks career high is 113 and 4 sacks) while coming up huge in pass coverage during the playoffs. If Barr ever put up those numbers we'd be putting him in the RoH and sizing up his gold jacket. Kendricks has shown he is an outstanding pass defender but White is young and really stepped up in that area late last year. He got game sealing Ints against New Orleans and KC. Also, like I said Kendricks is hitting that age where he is bound to lose a step.

To be fair I'd take JJ over Evans. Look for future potential over past production.

Don't want to burst anyone's bubble but these are my honest takes.
Last edited by Maelstrom88 on Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:15 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Championship Roster

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RandyMoss84 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:55 am
Maelstrom88 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:24 pm

Nah. Brady took awhile to get on the same page with his weapons without training camp and he was learning a new scheme. He's gonna light it up this year. Cousins folds in big moments. Also the Bucs offensive line is top 3 in the league and ours is unproven. Antonio Brown in the slot is just not fair and Godwin is better than Thielen. Their 3rd TE is better than Irv Smith. Their defense is young and loaded. JPP and Barrett are great and Suh and Vea clog and push the middle. White and David are way better than Barr. Kendricks is close to as good as them. Their corners are young, fast and tall and Winfield is looking like every bit the player his dad was. I'd take Cook over any of their backs but their stable of backs is better. If Joe Tryon can provide pass rush depth that's another thing to worry about.
You sound like a Buccaneers fan if you think Godwin is better than Thielen
I watch every game for both teams. :lol: I also hope to move to Florida ASAP so you're not far off my friend. I like both organizations.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by Maelstrom88 »

CharVike wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:31 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:24 pm
The Bucs got hot in the playoffs last year. The regular season they were an afterthought. I'm not saying we're better, but we're every bit as good IMO.
Every team that makes a Super Bowl get's hot in the playoffs. There GM Jason Licht is a leader not a follower. I thought when he signed Brady it was a terrible move. An old immobile QB. That goes against what every so called football expert would suggest. He kicked his failed mobile inaccurate QB pick Winston down the road. So he has made his share of mistakes also. He has built a very good offensive line that is deep. They lost a starting G for the Super Bowl run against Wash in the playoffs and plugged the next guy in and kept rolling. No drop off. Found this below.
The Bucs traded up one spot in the 2020 NFL Draft to nab the Iowa product at 13 overall. Wirfs ended up being worth that and then some, as he gave up just one sack on 1,352 snaps in the regular season.
Trader down Rick would never even consider a move like that which was proven again this year. He moved away from the best prospects to collect picks that again where further away from the top prospects. Old dog same old tricks. Results will be the same.
Licht like all GMs has made mistakes but I give the guy credit he learns from his mistakes and changes his approach. I think this year he made a great pick with Kyle Trask. He's a guy that fell off the table because of his lack of mobility. But he has a quick delivery and is accurate. He took what fell in his lap and didn't even need a QB. Rick would never do that. Single focused which isn't a great trait.
Right now our talent level isn't at the Bucs level. Especially on the OL it's not even close. There C is a dam good player who provided a consistent anchor and leader in the middle of the line. Our guy has no anchor. Can't hold the point very well and Rick didn't even address this issue. In the 3rd round the Steelers picked a C who should have been in our pocket to challenge Bradbury. Make him earn his roster spot and play better. We had the pick and the player was there.
Jensen is one tough SOB and a tone setter for that oline. He draws penalties by playing to and through the whistle and getting inside a defenders head. Not many like him anymore. Bradbury would be lucky to be half the player he is. Jensen's only flaw is he sucks at shotgun snaps. They're always to the left or over the head of Brady. He had to change his stance to be more prepared to make acrobatic catches. I would quit using shotgun if I ran the Bucs offense but Arians has forgotten more than I'll ever know so...
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Re: Championship Roster

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Maelstrom88 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:51 am
CharVike wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:31 am
Every team that makes a Super Bowl get's hot in the playoffs. There GM Jason Licht is a leader not a follower. I thought when he signed Brady it was a terrible move. An old immobile QB. That goes against what every so called football expert would suggest. He kicked his failed mobile inaccurate QB pick Winston down the road. So he has made his share of mistakes also. He has built a very good offensive line that is deep. They lost a starting G for the Super Bowl run against Wash in the playoffs and plugged the next guy in and kept rolling. No drop off. Found this below.
The Bucs traded up one spot in the 2020 NFL Draft to nab the Iowa product at 13 overall. Wirfs ended up being worth that and then some, as he gave up just one sack on 1,352 snaps in the regular season.
Trader down Rick would never even consider a move like that which was proven again this year. He moved away from the best prospects to collect picks that again where further away from the top prospects. Old dog same old tricks. Results will be the same.
Licht like all GMs has made mistakes but I give the guy credit he learns from his mistakes and changes his approach. I think this year he made a great pick with Kyle Trask. He's a guy that fell off the table because of his lack of mobility. But he has a quick delivery and is accurate. He took what fell in his lap and didn't even need a QB. Rick would never do that. Single focused which isn't a great trait.
Right now our talent level isn't at the Bucs level. Especially on the OL it's not even close. There C is a dam good player who provided a consistent anchor and leader in the middle of the line. Our guy has no anchor. Can't hold the point very well and Rick didn't even address this issue. In the 3rd round the Steelers picked a C who should have been in our pocket to challenge Bradbury. Make him earn his roster spot and play better. We had the pick and the player was there.
Jensen is one tough SOB and a time setter for that oline. He draws penalties by playing to and through the whistle and getting inside a defenders head. Not many like him anymore. Bradbury would be lucky to be half the player he is. Jensen's only flaw is he sucks at shotgun snaps. They're always to the left or over the head of Brady. He had to change his stance to be more prepared to make acrobatic catches. I would quit using shotgun if I ran the Bucs offense but Arians has forgotten more than I'll ever know so...
This is the guy the Steelers picked Round 3 (Pick 87) – Kendrick Green, C/G, Illinois. I think this was a great pick. We could have him and Davis. Get some players in for this OL competition. Make them earn the spot. Trader down Rick picked two and said task complete. But the stiff Bradbury, who was gifted the spot, will be here until his contract ends and then he'll be gone. Meanwhile Ezra is working on his strength which makes my stomach turn. They switched him from T to G and threw him into the lineup because we had nothing. He's years away from getting the necessary strength and base to become an acceptable player. That's been Ricks history from day 1. He has proven that building even an average OL is impossible for him. I'm sure the Bucs OL was an influence on Brady to sign with them. He's not going to get busted up.
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Re: Championship Roster

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CharVike wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:40 am
Maelstrom88 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:51 am

Jensen is one tough SOB and a time setter for that oline. He draws penalties by playing to and through the whistle and getting inside a defenders head. Not many like him anymore. Bradbury would be lucky to be half the player he is. Jensen's only flaw is he sucks at shotgun snaps. They're always to the left or over the head of Brady. He had to change his stance to be more prepared to make acrobatic catches. I would quit using shotgun if I ran the Bucs offense but Arians has forgotten more than I'll ever know so...
This is the guy the Steelers picked Round 3 (Pick 87) – Kendrick Green, C/G, Illinois. I think this was a great pick. We could have him and Davis. Get some players in for this OL competition. Make them earn the spot. Trader down Rick picked two and said task complete. But the stiff Bradbury, who was gifted the spot, will be here until his contract ends and then he'll be gone. Meanwhile Ezra is working on his strength which makes my stomach turn. They switched him from T to G and threw him into the lineup because we had nothing. He's years away from getting the necessary strength and base to become an acceptable player. That's been Ricks history from day 1. He has proven that building even an average OL is impossible for him. I'm sure the Bucs OL was an influence on Brady to sign with them. He's not going to get busted up.
Rick can't admit Bradbury isn't working out. He must at least start through his rookie deal. Ezra should have been left at Tackle imo. Ezra graded 52.0 of pff in pass protection last year for what it's worth. I don't like moving them around. I am unfamiliar with Green but they absolutely should have brought in competition for Bradbury.
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Re: Championship Roster

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StumpHunter wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:24 am Some stats of the last 15 SB winning teams:

https://purplepainforums.com/thread/475 ... ms-numbers


Summarizing, the average team has a HOF QB, a top 8 receiving group, top 9 scoring defense and offense, and an above average pass rush and run game. Surprisingly they also have a below average pass blocking Oline.

We definitely have the receivers, which looks to be the most important group to winning it all. Our top 2 are great, and I have a lot of faith in Conklin stepping up big this year.

We have the below average Oline down and our run game is top 10.

Defensively, the additions of Tomlinson and Hunter could make our pass rush at least average. If the secondary is very good, and it could be with Breeland, Peterson and Mack starting, that just makes their job even easier.

Top 8 scoring defense and HOF QB is where I think we fall short.

I believe this team is a lock for the playoffs with a much improved defense, but we don't have that championship roster quite yet.
Good analysis. I enjoyed reading it and I agree with most of it.

For me, the big question marks on this team are going to be the offensive line, and specifically the ability of the offensive line to consistently open up holes for the running game in critical situations. Having the ability to credibly threaten to run in every situation makes Cousins able to play at the HOF QB level even if he's not an HOF QB. It also somewhat masks deficiencies in pass blocking, so that is going to be the single thing I am going to focus on early in the year. If the Vikings show they can do that, then it's off to the races for the team as far as I'm concerned.

Second question mark is going to be ability to defend the run, especially on the early downs. Couldn't do that last year and defenses that can't do that can't dictate to offenses on 3rd down. That will determine in large part if the Vikings are not only a playoff team, but a team capable of going deep into the playoffs. It's also something we should see evidence of early in the season if they are capable of doing it.

I'm honestly excited about their chances this year. For the first time in a long time, I'm optimistic they can be in the mix for a Championship.
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Re: Championship Roster

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RandyMoss84 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:07 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:30 pm I truly believe we have all the parts we need to win it all this year. This is assuming Hunter is once again Hunter and the Young OL's don't suck. Everywhere else if filled with pretty proven players. On offense
Cousins, Cook, Thielen, Jefferson, Irv Smith.
On Defense Hunter, Pierce, Tomlinson, ? Wonnum?
Kendricks, Barr, Smith, Peterson, Breeland, Dantzler.
Looks like a championship roster to me.
I'm predicting a Vikings Championship this year. What you all think?

We said that about 1969, 1998, and 2009 and it never happened and I do not see it happening this year either
Odds are almost always against any one team winning the championship in any one year. 31 other teams you're competing with. However, with this roster and just a little luck we can certainly win it all in this year. Just like we could have won it all the 3 years you mentioned. If you want to be a negative Nellie go ahead. I won't be.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by VikingsVictorious »

CharVike wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:31 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:24 pm
The Bucs got hot in the playoffs last year. The regular season they were an afterthought. I'm not saying we're better, but we're every bit as good IMO.
Every team that makes a Super Bowl get's hot in the playoffs. There GM Jason Licht is a leader not a follower. I thought when he signed Brady it was a terrible move. An old immobile QB. That goes against what every so called football expert would suggest. He kicked his failed mobile inaccurate QB pick Winston down the road. So he has made his share of mistakes also. He has built a very good offensive line that is deep. They lost a starting G for the Super Bowl run against Wash in the playoffs and plugged the next guy in and kept rolling. No drop off. Found this below.
The Bucs traded up one spot in the 2020 NFL Draft to nab the Iowa product at 13 overall. Wirfs ended up being worth that and then some, as he gave up just one sack on 1,352 snaps in the regular season.
Trader down Rick would never even consider a move like that which was proven again this year. He moved away from the best prospects to collect picks that again where further away from the top prospects. Old dog same old tricks. Results will be the same.
Licht like all GMs has made mistakes but I give the guy credit he learns from his mistakes and changes his approach. I think this year he made a great pick with Kyle Trask. He's a guy that fell off the table because of his lack of mobility. But he has a quick delivery and is accurate. He took what fell in his lap and didn't even need a QB. Rick would never do that. Single focused which isn't a great trait.
Right now our talent level isn't at the Bucs level. Especially on the OL it's not even close. There C is a dam good player who provided a consistent anchor and leader in the middle of the line. Our guy has no anchor. Can't hold the point very well and Rick didn't even address this issue. In the 3rd round the Steelers picked a C who should have been in our pocket to challenge Bradbury. Make him earn his roster spot and play better. We had the pick and the player was there.
Trader Down Rick made by far the best trade in the draft moving back from 14-23 getting Darrisaw, Mond and Davis instead of just Darrisaw. You are so blinded by your "you can't trade down" philosophy.
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Re: Championship Roster

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Maelstrom88 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:32 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:04 am

Lol sorry but Chris Godwin is not better than Adam Thielen. Their 3rd TE is better than Irv Smith? What? Kendricks is arguably the best MLB in the NFL FYI. Not sure where you're getting some of this from but I can tell you you are quite a bit off in some of these areas.
I'd take a 25 year old Godwin over a 30 year old Thielen. Put them both on the open market and I guarantee Godwin makes more. Thielen has been better but is he going forward? They have had pretty similar numbers when you compare the last two seasons that they were healthy. Thielen had a ton of TDs last year but he doesn't have to compete with Evans and Gronk for jump balls in the endzone.

Irv has done next to nothing since coming in to the league. OJ Howard and Cameron Brate are both better at this time than him. Now maybe he breaks out this year and maybe they should have been targeting him more but as of now I'd take the Bucs third TE over him.

Devin White is 22 while Kendricks is 29. Kendricks is going to lose a step soon and White is probably the fastest linebacker in the league. White had 140 tackles and 9 sacks last year (Kendricks career high is 113 and 4 sacks) while coming up huge in pass coverage during the playoffs. If Barr ever put up those numbers we'd be putting him in the RoH and sizing up his gold jacket. Kendricks has shown he is an outstanding pass defender but White is young and really stepped up in that area late last year. He got game sealing Ints against New Orleans and KC. Also, like I said Kendricks is hitting that age where he is bound to lose a step.

To be fair I'd take JJ over Evans. Look for future potential over past production.

Don't want to burst anyone's bubble but these are my honest takes.
Even if you are 100% correct about who would get more on the free agent market that doesn't mean much about who is the best player right now. The best LB of the ones you mentioned is Kendrick no question and the best WRs are Thielen and JJ. Maybe in 2-5 years those other guys will be better.
Last edited by VikingsVictorious on Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by Maelstrom88 »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:24 am
CharVike wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:31 am
Every team that makes a Super Bowl get's hot in the playoffs. There GM Jason Licht is a leader not a follower. I thought when he signed Brady it was a terrible move. An old immobile QB. That goes against what every so called football expert would suggest. He kicked his failed mobile inaccurate QB pick Winston down the road. So he has made his share of mistakes also. He has built a very good offensive line that is deep. They lost a starting G for the Super Bowl run against Wash in the playoffs and plugged the next guy in and kept rolling. No drop off. Found this below.
The Bucs traded up one spot in the 2020 NFL Draft to nab the Iowa product at 13 overall. Wirfs ended up being worth that and then some, as he gave up just one sack on 1,352 snaps in the regular season.
Trader down Rick would never even consider a move like that which was proven again this year. He moved away from the best prospects to collect picks that again where further away from the top prospects. Old dog same old tricks. Results will be the same.
Licht like all GMs has made mistakes but I give the guy credit he learns from his mistakes and changes his approach. I think this year he made a great pick with Kyle Trask. He's a guy that fell off the table because of his lack of mobility. But he has a quick delivery and is accurate. He took what fell in his lap and didn't even need a QB. Rick would never do that. Single focused which isn't a great trait.
Right now our talent level isn't at the Bucs level. Especially on the OL it's not even close. There C is a dam good player who provided a consistent anchor and leader in the middle of the line. Our guy has no anchor. Can't hold the point very well and Rick didn't even address this issue. In the 3rd round the Steelers picked a C who should have been in our pocket to challenge Bradbury. Make him earn his roster spot and play better. We had the pick and the player was there.
Trader Down Rick made by far the best trade in the draft moving back from 14-23 getting Darrisaw, Mond and Davis instead of just Darrisaw. You are so blinded by your "you can't trade down" philosophy.
I actually did love that trade down but he was lucky Darrisaw was still on the board. Who knows how these guys will turn out but that was great value. I think the Vikings can beat anyone if all the prospects work out and they play their best ball. This defense is scary on paper. I'm just not betting on them to win it all over teams that are more proven at this point.
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Re: Championship Roster

Post by Maelstrom88 »

VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:26 am
Maelstrom88 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:32 am

I'd take a 25 year old Godwin over a 30 year old Thielen. Put them both on the open market and I guarantee Godwin makes more. Thielen has been better but is he going forward? They have had pretty similar numbers when you compare the last two seasons that they were healthy. Thielen had a ton of TDs last year but he doesn't have to compete with Evans and Gronk for jump balls in the endzone.

Irv has done next to nothing since coming in to the league. OJ Howard and Cameron Brate are both better at this time than him. Now maybe he breaks out this year and maybe they should have been targeting him more but as of now I'd take the Bucs third TE over him.

Devin White is 22 while Kendricks is 29. Kendricks is going to lose a step soon and White is probably the fastest linebacker in the league. White had 140 tackles and 9 sacks last year (Kendricks career high is 113 and 4 sacks) while coming up huge in pass coverage during the playoffs. If Barr ever put up those numbers we'd be putting him in the RoH and sizing up his gold jacket. Kendricks has shown he is an outstanding pass defender but White is young and really stepped up in that area late last year. He got game sealing Ints against New Orleans and KC. Also, like I said Kendricks is hitting that age where he is bound to lose a step.

To be fair I'd take JJ over Evans. Look for future potential over past production.

Don't want to burst anyone's bubble but these are my honest takes.
Even if you are 100% correct about who would get more on the free agent market that doesn't mean much about who is the best player right now. The best LB of the ones you mentioned is Kendrick no question and the best WR is Thielen. Maybe in 2-5 years those other guys will be better.
I'm not so sure about that. We will see how they perform this year.
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Re: Championship Roster

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Maelstrom88 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:27 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:24 am
Trader Down Rick made by far the best trade in the draft moving back from 14-23 getting Darrisaw, Mond and Davis instead of just Darrisaw. You are so blinded by your "you can't trade down" philosophy.
I actually did love that trade down but he was lucky Darrisaw was still on the board. Who knows how these guys will turn out but that was great value. I think the Vikings can beat anyone if all the prospects work out and they play their best ball. This defense is scary on paper. I'm just not betting on them to win it all over teams that are more proven at this point.
There is no team I would bet on even odds winning it all. That would be stupid. However, the Vikings are one of the teams with a good chance of winning it all.
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Re: Championship Roster

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Maelstrom88 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:27 am
VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:24 am
Trader Down Rick made by far the best trade in the draft moving back from 14-23 getting Darrisaw, Mond and Davis instead of just Darrisaw. You are so blinded by your "you can't trade down" philosophy.
I actually did love that trade down but he was lucky Darrisaw was still on the board. Who knows how these guys will turn out but that was great value. I think the Vikings can beat anyone if all the prospects work out and they play their best ball. This defense is scary on paper. I'm just not betting on them to win it all over teams that are more proven at this point.
Lucky/Good or both it worked out spectacularly well.
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Re: Championship Roster

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VikingsVictorious wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:17 am
RandyMoss84 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:07 am


We said that about 1969, 1998, and 2009 and it never happened and I do not see it happening this year either
Odds are almost always against any one team winning the championship in any one year. 31 other teams you're competing with. However, with this roster and just a little luck we can certainly win it all in this year. Just like we could have won it all the 3 years you mentioned. If you want to be a negative Nellie go ahead. I won't be.
With due respect, if Vikings fail to win the championship this year, I hope you will stop making threads like this because we do not want you to look like an idiot every time you are wrong
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