Who did the Vikings want at 8?

[Passepartout]

Yeah as really do not blame it on Kirk Cousins. Needs to have a great OL. As really he may not be mobile. But he is accurate.

[CharVike]

Why does everyone ignore the fact that the chiefs were missing both starting tackles in the Superbowl? That's why they struggled.

Not too mention he was injured and just got out of concussion protocol.

The bottom line he was under pressure. I never mentioned the cause or anything else. He was under pressure and his game was not the same. Why is that so hard to see? The Bucs did the same to Rodgers the previous game. They pressured him and he didn't play as well. No more than that. The Bucs D was on a roll. The 49ers D did the same when they reached the Bowl. They pressured Cousins and Rodgers and they both struggled. Cousin has no mobility and Rodgers is the best. It didn't really matter. Neither one played very well. Too much heat.

[CharVike]

Every QB needs to make reads. When teams keep Jackson in the pocket he don't produce like when he's running lose. That's Chinese fire drill stuff that he does. Everything breaks down. When I hear Rodgers my first thought isn't his mobility it's his passing skill that comes to mind. He is mobile and one time when he was mobile trying the escape Barr knocked him out for the year. Not a good move by Rodgers. Him and the team would have been better off if he stayed in the pocket and took the sack or threw it away. Last year Wilson and the Hawks were on a roll. Wilson was being talked about as MVP. The Hawks needed help on D and their GM got Carlos Dunlap and that D made a tremendous jump. There sacks and pressures and points allowed improved big time. Just then Wilson went into the tank. You can't tank at that point. Last 4 games he was carried by the D. Then in the playoffs pick 6 and game over. That's a home playoff lose. Wilson blames his OL. Come on hold up your side. My head isn't in the sand all that happened. Look it up. Dak will win his division this year. Big deal. He's a winner. If he was in our division he's not beating out Rodgers then he'd be a loser. People miss that. I would like our chances better in the NFC east. Rodgers will beat us out unless we knock him out again while he's buying time. Then Cousins will get the win because that Packer squad isn't that good without Rodgers. I hope the next time we play Rodgers he spends his time running around in the backfield we might knock him out again. I'd rather see that than him shredding us from the pocket. I've seen that one play out also. You like a guy like Dak who's mobile. I like a guy who can pass with the best. Different opinions. Hold tight we'll see in a few years if not sooner on our team. Maybe we have the guy to be out mobile Rodgers. I doubt it but time will tell.

How can you say when you think of Rogers you don't thing of his mobility. That's what he is famous for. He is the definition of the get out of trouble Qb, create with his legs and then kill the defense on 3rd down with an amazing throw while rolling to his left. Pocket Rogers isn't as scary. Bootlegging Rogers on 3rd and 9 will be a 30 yard pass to Nelson.

Yes his mobility helps his game. It helps every QBs game. That's been the case since I've been watching. But you better have an arm and accuracy or the mobility means nothing. Rodgers has the whole package that's why he will be in the HOF.

[StumpHunter]

Not too mention he was injured and just got out of concussion protocol.

The bottom line he was under pressure. I never mentioned the cause or anything else. He was under pressure and his game was not the same. Why is that so hard to see? The Bucs did the same to Rodgers the previous game. They pressured him and he didn't play as well. No more than that. The Bucs D was on a roll. The 49ers D did the same when they reached the Bowl. They pressured Cousins and Rodgers and they both struggled. Cousin has no mobility and Rodgers is the best. It didn't really matter. Neither one played very well. Too much heat.

In 2019 the 9ers also brought the heat on Mahomes, pressuring him on over 40 % of his drop backs. Conversely, Rodgers was pressured 19% that year when playing SF in the CC. Cousins was pressured at an almost identical rate to Mahomes in the divisional round.

2020 Rodgers and Mahomes were both pressured on 30% of their drop backs in their respective CC's and both had great games. Rodgers choked in the red zone a bit, not because of pressure but because he just choked, and that ended up being the difference in the game.

2020 SB Mahomes did indeed face too much pressure playing behind a patchwork Oline. He still could have made that game interesting if not for 3 huge drops by his receivers, 2 of which would have been for TDs. Not to mention the officials let TB mug his receivers all game and no one was getting open.

[CharVike]

The bottom line he was under pressure. I never mentioned the cause or anything else. He was under pressure and his game was not the same. Why is that so hard to see? The Bucs did the same to Rodgers the previous game. They pressured him and he didn't play as well. No more than that. The Bucs D was on a roll. The 49ers D did the same when they reached the Bowl. They pressured Cousins and Rodgers and they both struggled. Cousin has no mobility and Rodgers is the best. It didn't really matter. Neither one played very well. Too much heat.

In 2019 the 9ers also brought the heat on Mahomes, pressuring him on over 40 % of his drop backs. Conversely, Rodgers was pressured 19% that year when playing SF in the CC. Cousins was pressured at an almost identical rate to Mahomes in the divisional round.

2020 Rodgers and Mahomes were both pressured on 30% of their drop backs in their respective CC's and both had great games. Rodgers choked in the red zone a bit, not because of pressure but because he just choked, and that ended up being the difference in the game.

2020 SB Mahomes did indeed face too much pressure playing behind a patchwork Oline. He still could have made that game interesting if not for 3 huge drops by his receivers, 2 of which would have been for TDs. Not to mention the officials let TB mug his receivers all game and no one was getting open.

Nice information. At the end of the day Mahomes is the best young QB in the game. He also went to a team that has a great GM. They needed the OL fixed and boom it was fixed. They didn't do a 3 year maybe fix like Trader Down Rick. That's a GM who understands vs a GM who doesn't.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Maybe it seems more logical to you when it comes directly from the horses mouth.....

This is a direct quote from Paton at his introductory press conference in Denver....



I could care less what Denver did this year. I do know they made more draft trades than the Vikings did. I never said Spielman was "forced" to trade back. Obviously there is some agreement there between him and Paton. But it's also quite obvious that there was a change in overall philosophy this year. If the back end of the draft was so weak, why wouldnt Spielman try and trade up like a mad man? That would be the logical thing right?

Either way, I've always been a fan of the approach and especially the line Paton drops above.... "The more picks, the more darts and the better chance of you hitting the bullseye". I didnt hate Spielmans approach this year by any means because we had so many picks already built up from previous drafts but I'm still in support of that type of philosophy. But I can tell you, if it was all Spielman wanting to do all these trade downs and not Paton, the last thing Paton would be doing at his introductory press conference as new GM of the Broncos is pumping Rick Spielmans philosophy that supposedly doesnt work. Just saying.

There is no "supposed", trading back for late round picks hasn't resulted in a SINGLE impact starter drafted in the 6th or 7th round in the 10 years of doing it. Which is probably why no successful GM tries to accumulate those picks like Rick does.

This is what you arent getting. First of all, they are day 3 draft picks we're talking here. NFL teams are lucky to pull one "impact" starter out of day 3. It's more about the contributions and depth.

So many guys get so butt hurt about Spielman trading back late in the draft when 90% of the time, these same fans havent watched any of the remaining players on the board play a lick of football.

I've always said, what is the difference talent wise of a 5th round pick and 7th round pick? Minimal at best. So if you can move down in the 5th round plus gain a 7th why would you not do that? ESPECIALLY when there are 4-5 players you really like still left on the board. That's smart drafting if you ask me because you still land a player you're high on plus one more guy.

Let's call our original 5th round pick $100. Lets call the 5th round pick we move back to $95. Let's call the 7th rounder we gain $30.

So you could either have $100 at the end of the day OR take $95 and and gain another $30 later on for a total of $125. How in any way is the latter not the smart decision? Especially when there are multiple "$95" players you like.

Like why would anyone ever bother picking in the 7th round if nothing comes of it? Why wouldnt everyone just try trading up? You act like we are losing out on all this talent by moving down the draft board. Instead he's trying to find a 2 for 1. That's bargain shopping at it's finest.

[Pondering Her Percy]

This year we needed a LT. Get the best coming out. That guy was Penei Sewell. We were in position. He didn't make the move. He traded down again for a lesser prospect. Of course there are no guarantees with the draft and he might have knocked it out. That should be the goal is to get the best prospect.

I must say this logic right here truly blows my mind.

So if I tell you before the draft that you can have LT-Penei Sewell in a trade up losing multiple picks this year or even next year

OR

You can have LT-Christian Darrisaw, QB-Kellen Mond and OG-Wyatt Davis and lose no picks this year or next....

You're really going to choose option 1? Come again?...

I mean Lawrence was the best QB, Surtain was the best CB, Chase was the best WR.... those are all technically needs. Why didnt we just trade up for everybody?

[CharVike]

This year we needed a LT. Get the best coming out. That guy was Penei Sewell. We were in position. He didn't make the move. He traded down again for a lesser prospect. Of course there are no guarantees with the draft and he might have knocked it out. That should be the goal is to get the best prospect.

I must say this logic right here truly blows my mind.

So if I tell you before the draft that you can have LT-Penei Sewell in a trade up losing multiple picks this year or even next year

OR

You can have LT-Christian Darrisaw, QB-Kellen Mond and OG-Wyatt Davis and lose no picks this year or next....

You're really going to choose option 1? Come again?...

I mean Lawrence was the best QB, Surtain was the best CB, Chase was the best WR.... those are all technically needs. Why didnt we just trade up for everybody?

We all have an opinion and there are no sure hits in the draft but there are some trends that should provided better value. Speilman has accumulated 25 7th round draft picks since being the GM. I don't see how any GM can even think that has a possibility of building a legitimate contender using that approach. Of course once a decade a great player comes from that round. The odds are not very good. How does that blow a mind? Those picks are worthless. I looked those picks up and he came away with nothing. In other words no high quality long term starter. It was a waste of time. You can't trade up every time but you also shouldn't trade down every single dam year or close to every year and collect all these picks that teams will give away. The quality of player isn't there. That don't take logic it's the truth. This year he traded down and didn't even get a 2nd round pick that he gave away for nothing. I would have told the Jets give me a 2nd rounder or hit the road we have other teams needed this pick. They wanted a player so make them pay. Then I would have told Belicheck you think QB Jones fell to you but we are taking him or trading the pick to a team that wants him and you have another year with a bum QB starting and nothing in the hole. Good luck or start coughing the picks up. That's how you deal. You call the shot. I would always go for the best at the position. If we were picking 20 then the trade up would have been to costly. His dealing down has not pushed us to the top of the division yet. I don't see that happening this year. Of course if Mond because a long term great starting QB then it will go down as one of the best trades in history. The chance of that happening is basically zero. Just look at his OL rebuild. There was no rebuild for this year. It's a development cycle all over again. The Chiefs rebuilt for this year. Basically let's roll now. Speilman didn't want to do that. So now our QB will need to play behind a garbage OL again. Expensive QB and you give him a garbage OL.There is no logic there at all. Same thing the Texans do. Having no clue or will to do the right thing is the story.
Speilman's mind was made up long before the draft. He was blinded by need and already knew who he was taking. He was taking a LT no matter what fell to us. That's not how you build a Super Bowl team. He had his chance and we still haven't taken over by becoming the favorites in our division. I'm only talking division. A JR head coach and GM in Packerland are beating him out. Even the Lions are dealing. My logic tells me it's not happening with him. Rick wanted TV time so he pretended to trade up. That only happened because people were #### about his trade down every year. Now if he felt Field was a franchise QB and wouldn't give up next years 1st rounder then he is done as an NFL GM and should have been fired on the spot. But I think he was just looking to get on TV or streamed. He's not focused on his job which is a big problem for us fans. Now he's loading the gun with as many CBs as he can find. Hello Rick we don't have a pass rusher and the one we have has a gun pointed to your head and won't play until you dump a bunch of CAP to him. This don't seem like a great plan to me. But he put himself into a no choice position. Not very smart.

[VikingsVictorious]

I must say this logic right here truly blows my mind.

So if I tell you before the draft that you can have LT-Penei Sewell in a trade up losing multiple picks this year or even next year

OR

You can have LT-Christian Darrisaw, QB-Kellen Mond and OG-Wyatt Davis and lose no picks this year or next....

You're really going to choose option 1? Come again?...

I mean Lawrence was the best QB, Surtain was the best CB, Chase was the best WR.... those are all technically needs. Why didnt we just trade up for everybody?

We all have an opinion and there are no sure hits in the draft but there are some trends that should provided better value. Speilman has accumulated 25 7th round draft picks since being the GM. I don't see how any GM can even think that has a possibility of building a legitimate contender using that approach. Of course once a decade a great player comes from that round. The odds are not very good. How does that blow a mind? Those picks are worthless. I looked those picks up and he came away with nothing. In other words no high quality long term starter. It was a waste of time. You can't trade up every time but you also shouldn't trade down every single dam year or close to every year and collect all these picks that teams will give away. The quality of player isn't there. That don't take logic it's the truth. This year he traded down and didn't even get a 2nd round pick that he gave away for nothing. I would have told the Jets give me a 2nd rounder or hit the road we have other teams needed this pick. They wanted a player so make them pay. Then I would have told Belicheck you think QB Jones fell to you but we are taking him or trading the pick to a team that wants him and you have another year with a bum QB starting and nothing in the hole. Good luck or start coughing the picks up. That's how you deal. You call the shot. I would always go for the best at the position. If we were picking 20 then the trade up would have been to costly. His dealing down has not pushed us to the top of the division yet. I don't see that happening this year. Of course if Mond because a long term great starting QB then it will go down as one of the best trades in history. The chance of that happening is basically zero. Just look at his OL rebuild. There was no rebuild for this year. It's a development cycle all over again. The Chiefs rebuilt for this year. Basically let's roll now. Speilman didn't want to do that. So now our QB will need to play behind a garbage OL again. Expensive QB and you give him a garbage OL.There is no logic there at all. Same thing the Texans do. Having no clue or will to do the right thing is the story.
Speilman's mind was made up long before the draft. He was blinded by need and already knew who he was taking. He was taking a LT no matter what fell to us. That's not how you build a Super Bowl team. He had his chance and we still haven't taken over by becoming the favorites in our division. I'm only talking division. A JR head coach and GM in Packerland are beating him out. Even the Lions are dealing. My logic tells me it's not happening with him. Rick wanted TV time so he pretended to trade up. That only happened because people were #### about his trade down every year. Now if he felt Field was a franchise QB and wouldn't give up next years 1st rounder then he is done as an NFL GM and should have been fired on the spot. But I think he was just looking to get on TV or streamed. He's not focused on his job which is a big problem for us fans. Now he's loading the gun with as many CBs as he can find. Hello Rick we don't have a pass rusher and the one we have has a gun pointed to your head and won't play until you dump a bunch of CAP to him. This don't seem like a great plan to me. But he put himself into a no choice position. Not very smart.

With your reasoning almost every GM should be fired after every Draft. Whatever your need is you must trade up for the best player at that need or you should be fired on the spot. If 10 teams need a LT only 1 can end up with that #1 rated LT so the other 9 should be fired on the spot. Trade up for that pick no matter what the cost. Charvike do you actually read what you type before you hit submit?

[CharVike]

We all have an opinion and there are no sure hits in the draft but there are some trends that should provided better value. Speilman has accumulated 25 7th round draft picks since being the GM. I don't see how any GM can even think that has a possibility of building a legitimate contender using that approach. Of course once a decade a great player comes from that round. The odds are not very good. How does that blow a mind? Those picks are worthless. I looked those picks up and he came away with nothing. In other words no high quality long term starter. It was a waste of time. You can't trade up every time but you also shouldn't trade down every single dam year or close to every year and collect all these picks that teams will give away. The quality of player isn't there. That don't take logic it's the truth. This year he traded down and didn't even get a 2nd round pick that he gave away for nothing. I would have told the Jets give me a 2nd rounder or hit the road we have other teams needed this pick. They wanted a player so make them pay. Then I would have told Belicheck you think QB Jones fell to you but we are taking him or trading the pick to a team that wants him and you have another year with a bum QB starting and nothing in the hole. Good luck or start coughing the picks up. That's how you deal. You call the shot. I would always go for the best at the position. If we were picking 20 then the trade up would have been to costly. His dealing down has not pushed us to the top of the division yet. I don't see that happening this year. Of course if Mond because a long term great starting QB then it will go down as one of the best trades in history. The chance of that happening is basically zero. Just look at his OL rebuild. There was no rebuild for this year. It's a development cycle all over again. The Chiefs rebuilt for this year. Basically let's roll now. Speilman didn't want to do that. So now our QB will need to play behind a garbage OL again. Expensive QB and you give him a garbage OL.There is no logic there at all. Same thing the Texans do. Having no clue or will to do the right thing is the story.
Speilman's mind was made up long before the draft. He was blinded by need and already knew who he was taking. He was taking a LT no matter what fell to us. That's not how you build a Super Bowl team. He had his chance and we still haven't taken over by becoming the favorites in our division. I'm only talking division. A JR head coach and GM in Packerland are beating him out. Even the Lions are dealing. My logic tells me it's not happening with him. Rick wanted TV time so he pretended to trade up. That only happened because people were #### about his trade down every year. Now if he felt Field was a franchise QB and wouldn't give up next years 1st rounder then he is done as an NFL GM and should have been fired on the spot. But I think he was just looking to get on TV or streamed. He's not focused on his job which is a big problem for us fans. Now he's loading the gun with as many CBs as he can find. Hello Rick we don't have a pass rusher and the one we have has a gun pointed to your head and won't play until you dump a bunch of CAP to him. This don't seem like a great plan to me. But he put himself into a no choice position. Not very smart.

With your reasoning almost every GM should be fired after every Draft. Whatever your need is you must trade up for the best player at that need or you should be fired on the spot. If 10 teams need a LT only 1 can end up with that #1 rated LT so the other 9 should be fired on the spot. Trade up for that pick no matter what the cost. Charvike do you actually read what you type before you hit submit?

This is what I posted.
Now if he felt Field was a franchise QB and wouldn't give up next years 1st rounder then he is done as an NFL GM and should have been fired on the spot
There is no mention of a LT. I was referring to trader down Ricks thought on moving up to 8 for Field.

I also posted.
I would always go for the best at the position. If we were picking 20 then the trade up would have been to costly.
This was referring to the LT position. If we were at 20 the cost would be too high. We weren't at 20. We were much closer.

I'll admit I'm not the best writer. My degree is in MIS. But I try to be as clear as possible. There's nothing unclear about the two statements above. Bottom if you like a QB make the trade. He only talked about it and made a stupid offer. As I said his mind was made up long before the draft took place concerning the effort he was going to make.

[Pondering Her Percy]

We all have an opinion and there are no sure hits in the draft but there are some trends that should provided better value. Speilman has accumulated 25 7th round draft picks since being the GM. I don't see how any GM can even think that has a possibility of building a legitimate contender using that approach. Of course once a decade a great player comes from that round. The odds are not very good. How does that blow a mind? Those picks are worthless. I looked those picks up and he came away with nothing. In other words no high quality long term starter. It was a waste of time. You can't trade up every time but you also shouldn't trade down every single dam year or close to every year and collect all these picks that teams will give away. The quality of player isn't there.

Buddy, do you know how to build a SB roster? Because you keep claiming "thats NOT how you build a SB roster". Well if its not, then I'd like to know how you do it. So would every other NFL team. And I'm not sure what you and others think when these trades are happening but I can tell you Rick Spielman isnt trading a 1st round pick away for a 7th round pick. Like you guys do realize that right? He's literally trading down a few spots in the middle-late rounds and gaining an extra late pick most of the time. Like look at these 2019 trades he made:

First, Minnesota traded its 81st overall pick to Detroit in exchange for the Lions 88th overall pick and the 204th overall pick, which will fall in the sixth round.

Detroit selected Boston College safety Will Harris at No. 81.

The Vikings then sent the 88th overall pick and the 209th (sixth round) to Seattle in exchange for the 92nd and 159th overall selections. The 159th will fall in the fifth round.

Seattle selected Utah LB Cody Barton at 88th.

He agreed to send the 92nd selection to the New York Jets to acquire the 93rd and 217th overall picks.

The Jets selected Southern Cal T Chuma Edoga 92nd.

Fourthly, Spielman dealt the 93rd pick to Baltimore for the 102nd (third round), 191st and 193rd (both in the sixth round)

The Ravens tabbed Notre Dame WR Miles Boykin.

He made FOUR trades and only dropped 21 spots from 81 to 102. Now mind you, this is the MIDDLE OF THE THIRD. Not the first round. It's a round where the players skill level that are still on the board starts to narrow. With pick 102, the Vikings drafted Alexander Mattison . Now, we traded down 21 picks and this is who we passed up:

S- Will Harris- 50.5
OG- Nate Davis- 69.7
CB- Justin Layne- 48.3
DT- Khalen Saunders- 64.3
DE- Jaylon Ferguson- 68.6
TE- Kahale Warring- 51.6
RB- Damien Harris- 90.3
LB- Cody Barton- 54.3
LB- Boddy Okereke- 49.6
OG- Connor McGovern- 62.2
OT- Trey Pipkins- 54.8
OT- Chuma Edoga- 61.3
WR- Miles Boykin- 62.5
CB- Jamel Dean- 76.6
DE- Oshane Ximines- 63.4
TE- Dawson Knox- 61.4
OT- Bobby Evans- 60.0
LB- Quincy Williams- 51.1
S- Mike Edwards- 77.0
QB- Will Grier- DNP
OT- Yodny Cajuste- DNP

Alexander Mattisons PFF grade..... 80.6

So please tell me who above would've been the right piece to the puzzle that would've been "a SB caliber roster" pick?? I can answer for you and say there wasnt one and there usually isnt in those rounds or later no less. So in the end, what the hell is all the complaining really about? We're still gaining a quality player and adding a free flyer at the end. I'd take that any day of the week.

That don't take logic it's the truth. This year he traded down and didn't even get a 2nd round pick that he gave away for nothing. I would have told the Jets give me a 2nd rounder or hit the road we have other teams needed this pick.

If you only knew. The Jets arent trading their 2nd round pick thats 2nd in that round plus their 1st rounder. No GM in the right mind accepts that.

They wanted a player so make them pay. Then I would have told Belicheck you think QB Jones fell to you but we are taking him or trading the pick to a team that wants him and you have another year with a bum QB starting and nothing in the hole. Good luck or start coughing the picks up. That's how you deal. You call the shot. I would always go for the best at the position. If we were picking 20 then the trade up would have been to costly.

You seem like you have it all figured out....

His dealing down has not pushed us to the top of the division yet. I don't see that happening this year. Of course if Mond because a long term great starting QB then it will go down as one of the best trades in history. The chance of that happening is basically zero. Just look at his OL rebuild. There was no rebuild for this year. It's a development cycle all over again. The Chiefs rebuilt for this year. Basically let's roll now. Speilman didn't want to do that. So now our QB will need to play behind a garbage OL again. Expensive QB and you give him a garbage OL.There is no logic there at all. Same thing the Texans do. Having no clue or will to do the right thing is the story.

Where are you getting this OL will be garbage from? It's easily the most promising our OL has looked in years. All higher draft picks, all under rookie deals, all young and not overpaid, all with potential. They have their veterans at this point in Oneill and Bradbury. I dont want overpaid free agent veterans. As good as Thuney is, he's overpaid. $16 mill a year AAV for a guard is asinine.

Speilman's mind was made up long before the draft. He was blinded by need and already knew who he was taking. He was taking a LT no matter what fell to us. That's not how you build a Super Bowl team. He had his chance and we still haven't taken over by becoming the favorites in our division. I'm only talking division.

Now you're just contradicting yourself. You said we should've picked Sewell, who is also a LT and a position of need. So you're criticizing Spileman for drafting Darrisaw because he was blinded by need yet you're sitting here saying we should've traded up for Sewell??

A JR head coach and GM in Packerland are beating him out. Even the Lions are dealing. My logic tells me it's not happening with him. Rick wanted TV time so he pretended to trade up. That only happened because people were #### about his trade down every year. Now if he felt Field was a franchise QB and wouldn't give up next years 1st rounder then he is done as an NFL GM and should have been fired on the spot. But I think he was just looking to get on TV or streamed. He's not focused on his job which is a big problem for us fans. Now he's loading the gun with as many CBs as he can find. Hello Rick we don't have a pass rusher and the one we have has a gun pointed to your head and won't play until you dump a bunch of CAP to him. This don't seem like a great plan to me. But he put himself into a no choice position. Not very smart.

Dude what on planet earth are you talking about? He wanted TV time and not focused on his job?? I'm sorry but that's just laughable. I have zero clue where you are even getting that info / hunch from.

[VikingsVictorious]

PHP great post showing what actually happened. It was the Wheeling and dealing before picking Mattison that cemented Rick's reputation for trading for 7th round picks. We started with a late 3rd round pick and ended up with Mattison and handful of other assets. None of them impact starters, but some of them useful contributors. Who among the players listed was this game changing impact starter. Answer is nobody. However, people have their mind made up and it doesn't matter how clearly you show them the facts their minds won't be changed.

[CharVike]

We all have an opinion and there are no sure hits in the draft but there are some trends that should provided better value. Speilman has accumulated 25 7th round draft picks since being the GM. I don't see how any GM can even think that has a possibility of building a legitimate contender using that approach. Of course once a decade a great player comes from that round. The odds are not very good. How does that blow a mind? Those picks are worthless. I looked those picks up and he came away with nothing. In other words no high quality long term starter. It was a waste of time. You can't trade up every time but you also shouldn't trade down every single dam year or close to every year and collect all these picks that teams will give away. The quality of player isn't there.

Buddy, do you know how to build a SB roster? Because you keep claiming "thats NOT how you build a SB roster". Well if its not, then I'd like to know how you do it. So would every other NFL team. And I'm not sure what you and others think when these trades are happening but I can tell you Rick Spielman isnt trading a 1st round pick away for a 7th round pick. Like you guys do realize that right? He's literally trading down a few spots in the middle-late rounds and gaining an extra late pick most of the time. Like look at these 2019 trades he made:

First, Minnesota traded its 81st overall pick to Detroit in exchange for the Lions 88th overall pick and the 204th overall pick, which will fall in the sixth round.

Detroit selected Boston College safety Will Harris at No. 81.

The Vikings then sent the 88th overall pick and the 209th (sixth round) to Seattle in exchange for the 92nd and 159th overall selections. The 159th will fall in the fifth round.

Seattle selected Utah LB Cody Barton at 88th.

He agreed to send the 92nd selection to the New York Jets to acquire the 93rd and 217th overall picks.

The Jets selected Southern Cal T Chuma Edoga 92nd.

Fourthly, Spielman dealt the 93rd pick to Baltimore for the 102nd (third round), 191st and 193rd (both in the sixth round)

The Ravens tabbed Notre Dame WR Miles Boykin.

He made FOUR trades and only dropped 21 spots from 81 to 102. Now mind you, this is the MIDDLE OF THE THIRD. Not the first round. It's a round where the players skill level that are still on the board starts to narrow. With pick 102, the Vikings drafted Alexander Mattison . Now, we traded down 21 picks and this is who we passed up:

S- Will Harris- 50.5
OG- Nate Davis- 69.7
CB- Justin Layne- 48.3
DT- Khalen Saunders- 64.3
DE- Jaylon Ferguson- 68.6
TE- Kahale Warring- 51.6
RB- Damien Harris- 90.3
LB- Cody Barton- 54.3
LB- Boddy Okereke- 49.6
OG- Connor McGovern- 62.2
OT- Trey Pipkins- 54.8
OT- Chuma Edoga- 61.3
WR- Miles Boykin- 62.5
CB- Jamel Dean- 76.6
DE- Oshane Ximines- 63.4
TE- Dawson Knox- 61.4
OT- Bobby Evans- 60.0
LB- Quincy Williams- 51.1
S- Mike Edwards- 77.0
QB- Will Grier- DNP
OT- Yodny Cajuste- DNP

Alexander Mattisons PFF grade..... 80.6

So please tell me who above would've been the right piece to the puzzle that would've been "a SB caliber roster" pick?? I can answer for you and say there wasnt one and there usually isnt in those rounds or later no less. So in the end, what the hell is all the complaining really about? We're still gaining a quality player and adding a free flyer at the end. I'd take that any day of the week.

That don't take logic it's the truth. This year he traded down and didn't even get a 2nd round pick that he gave away for nothing. I would have told the Jets give me a 2nd rounder or hit the road we have other teams needed this pick.

If you only knew. The Jets arent trading their 2nd round pick thats 2nd in that round plus their 1st rounder. No GM in the right mind accepts that.

They wanted a player so make them pay. Then I would have told Belicheck you think QB Jones fell to you but we are taking him or trading the pick to a team that wants him and you have another year with a bum QB starting and nothing in the hole. Good luck or start coughing the picks up. That's how you deal. You call the shot. I would always go for the best at the position. If we were picking 20 then the trade up would have been to costly.

You seem like you have it all figured out....

His dealing down has not pushed us to the top of the division yet. I don't see that happening this year. Of course if Mond because a long term great starting QB then it will go down as one of the best trades in history. The chance of that happening is basically zero. Just look at his OL rebuild. There was no rebuild for this year. It's a development cycle all over again. The Chiefs rebuilt for this year. Basically let's roll now. Speilman didn't want to do that. So now our QB will need to play behind a garbage OL again. Expensive QB and you give him a garbage OL.There is no logic there at all. Same thing the Texans do. Having no clue or will to do the right thing is the story.

Where are you getting this OL will be garbage from? It's easily the most promising our OL has looked in years. All higher draft picks, all under rookie deals, all young and not overpaid, all with potential. They have their veterans at this point in Oneill and Bradbury. I dont want overpaid free agent veterans. As good as Thuney is, he's overpaid. $16 mill a year AAV for a guard is asinine.

Speilman's mind was made up long before the draft. He was blinded by need and already knew who he was taking. He was taking a LT no matter what fell to us. That's not how you build a Super Bowl team. He had his chance and we still haven't taken over by becoming the favorites in our division. I'm only talking division.

Now you're just contradicting yourself. You said we should've picked Sewell, who is also a LT and a position of need. So you're criticizing Spileman for drafting Darrisaw because he was blinded by need yet you're sitting here saying we should've traded up for Sewell??

A JR head coach and GM in Packerland are beating him out. Even the Lions are dealing. My logic tells me it's not happening with him. Rick wanted TV time so he pretended to trade up. That only happened because people were #### about his trade down every year. Now if he felt Field was a franchise QB and wouldn't give up next years 1st rounder then he is done as an NFL GM and should have been fired on the spot. But I think he was just looking to get on TV or streamed. He's not focused on his job which is a big problem for us fans. Now he's loading the gun with as many CBs as he can find. Hello Rick we don't have a pass rusher and the one we have has a gun pointed to your head and won't play until you dump a bunch of CAP to him. This don't seem like a great plan to me. But he put himself into a no choice position. Not very smart.

Dude what on planet earth are you talking about? He wanted TV time and not focused on his job?? I'm sorry but that's just laughable. I have zero clue where you are even getting that info / hunch from.

A Super Bowl roster won't have one average player on their OL. This is from you "OL will be garbage from? It's easily the most promising our OL has looked in years." Promising is just another word for hopeful. Look at the starting 5. O'neil is our best and he's average. Bradbury so far not to good. Ezra has said he's working to get stronger. He switched from T to G. Bigger bodies inside. That's not good. Now two rookies. Nobody knows how they will turn out. More than likely they will struggle some early as they develop. How about not very good instead of garbage. Is that better. When a team makes a draft day trade the GMs are typically asked about it. TV time. Of course Rick needed more TV time so he talked about how he tried to trade up. Huh? Nobody cares about a try. Make it happen. That's like saying we tried to win. That's a given. TV time is what I call it. We'll see how his rebuild works out this year. I hope the OL improves greatly.

[Rhodes Closed]

We all have an opinion and there are no sure hits in the draft but there are some trends that should provided better value. Speilman has accumulated 25 7th round draft picks since being the GM. I don't see how any GM can even think that has a possibility of building a legitimate contender using that approach. Of course once a decade a great player comes from that round. The odds are not very good. How does that blow a mind? Those picks are worthless. I looked those picks up and he came away with nothing. In other words no high quality long term starter. It was a waste of time. You can't trade up every time but you also shouldn't trade down every single dam year or close to every year and collect all these picks that teams will give away. The quality of player isn't there.

Buddy, do you know how to build a SB roster? Because you keep claiming "thats NOT how you build a SB roster". Well if its not, then I'd like to know how you do it. So would every other NFL team. And I'm not sure what you and others think when these trades are happening but I can tell you Rick Spielman isnt trading a 1st round pick away for a 7th round pick. Like you guys do realize that right? He's literally trading down a few spots in the middle-late rounds and gaining an extra late pick most of the time. Like look at these 2019 trades he made:

First, Minnesota traded its 81st overall pick to Detroit in exchange for the Lions 88th overall pick and the 204th overall pick, which will fall in the sixth round.

Detroit selected Boston College safety Will Harris at No. 81.

The Vikings then sent the 88th overall pick and the 209th (sixth round) to Seattle in exchange for the 92nd and 159th overall selections. The 159th will fall in the fifth round.

Seattle selected Utah LB Cody Barton at 88th.

He agreed to send the 92nd selection to the New York Jets to acquire the 93rd and 217th overall picks.

The Jets selected Southern Cal T Chuma Edoga 92nd.

Fourthly, Spielman dealt the 93rd pick to Baltimore for the 102nd (third round), 191st and 193rd (both in the sixth round)

The Ravens tabbed Notre Dame WR Miles Boykin.

He made FOUR trades and only dropped 21 spots from 81 to 102. Now mind you, this is the MIDDLE OF THE THIRD. Not the first round. It's a round where the players skill level that are still on the board starts to narrow. With pick 102, the Vikings drafted Alexander Mattison . Now, we traded down 21 picks and this is who we passed up:

S- Will Harris- 50.5
OG- Nate Davis- 69.7
CB- Justin Layne- 48.3
DT- Khalen Saunders- 64.3
DE- Jaylon Ferguson- 68.6
TE- Kahale Warring- 51.6
RB- Damien Harris- 90.3
LB- Cody Barton- 54.3
LB- Boddy Okereke- 49.6
OG- Connor McGovern- 62.2
OT- Trey Pipkins- 54.8
OT- Chuma Edoga- 61.3
WR- Miles Boykin- 62.5
CB- Jamel Dean- 76.6
DE- Oshane Ximines- 63.4
TE- Dawson Knox- 61.4
OT- Bobby Evans- 60.0
LB- Quincy Williams- 51.1
S- Mike Edwards- 77.0
QB- Will Grier- DNP
OT- Yodny Cajuste- DNP

Alexander Mattisons PFF grade..... 80.6

So please tell me who above would've been the right piece to the puzzle that would've been "a SB caliber roster" pick?? I can answer for you and say there wasnt one and there usually isnt in those rounds or later no less. So in the end, what the hell is all the complaining really about? We're still gaining a quality player and adding a free flyer at the end. I'd take that any day of the week.

That don't take logic it's the truth. This year he traded down and didn't even get a 2nd round pick that he gave away for nothing. I would have told the Jets give me a 2nd rounder or hit the road we have other teams needed this pick.

If you only knew. The Jets arent trading their 2nd round pick thats 2nd in that round plus their 1st rounder. No GM in the right mind accepts that.

They wanted a player so make them pay. Then I would have told Belicheck you think QB Jones fell to you but we are taking him or trading the pick to a team that wants him and you have another year with a bum QB starting and nothing in the hole. Good luck or start coughing the picks up. That's how you deal. You call the shot. I would always go for the best at the position. If we were picking 20 then the trade up would have been to costly.

You seem like you have it all figured out....

His dealing down has not pushed us to the top of the division yet. I don't see that happening this year. Of course if Mond because a long term great starting QB then it will go down as one of the best trades in history. The chance of that happening is basically zero. Just look at his OL rebuild. There was no rebuild for this year. It's a development cycle all over again. The Chiefs rebuilt for this year. Basically let's roll now. Speilman didn't want to do that. So now our QB will need to play behind a garbage OL again. Expensive QB and you give him a garbage OL.There is no logic there at all. Same thing the Texans do. Having no clue or will to do the right thing is the story.

Where are you getting this OL will be garbage from? It's easily the most promising our OL has looked in years. All higher draft picks, all under rookie deals, all young and not overpaid, all with potential. They have their veterans at this point in Oneill and Bradbury. I dont want overpaid free agent veterans. As good as Thuney is, he's overpaid. $16 mill a year AAV for a guard is asinine.

Speilman's mind was made up long before the draft. He was blinded by need and already knew who he was taking. He was taking a LT no matter what fell to us. That's not how you build a Super Bowl team. He had his chance and we still haven't taken over by becoming the favorites in our division. I'm only talking division.

Now you're just contradicting yourself. You said we should've picked Sewell, who is also a LT and a position of need. So you're criticizing Spileman for drafting Darrisaw because he was blinded by need yet you're sitting here saying we should've traded up for Sewell??

A JR head coach and GM in Packerland are beating him out. Even the Lions are dealing. My logic tells me it's not happening with him. Rick wanted TV time so he pretended to trade up. That only happened because people were #### about his trade down every year. Now if he felt Field was a franchise QB and wouldn't give up next years 1st rounder then he is done as an NFL GM and should have been fired on the spot. But I think he was just looking to get on TV or streamed. He's not focused on his job which is a big problem for us fans. Now he's loading the gun with as many CBs as he can find. Hello Rick we don't have a pass rusher and the one we have has a gun pointed to your head and won't play until you dump a bunch of CAP to him. This don't seem like a great plan to me. But he put himself into a no choice position. Not very smart.

Dude what on planet earth are you talking about? He wanted TV time and not focused on his job?? I'm sorry but that's just laughable. I have zero clue where you are even getting that info / hunch from.

Honestly, save your breath, at this point he is convinced of his position and this discourse will probably end up with frustration on both parts. I still absolutely agree with your position on this though. This season has a lot of promise and the offensive line isn't magically going to be fixed in one season, but a line of nothing but home grown talent with all the potential in the world looks like an absolute winner to me. Give the line two years and see how it looks.

[StumpHunter]

S- Will Harris- 50.5
OG- Nate Davis- 69.7
CB- Justin Layne- 48.3
DT- Khalen Saunders- 64.3
DE- Jaylon Ferguson- 68.6
TE- Kahale Warring- 51.6
RB- Damien Harris- 90.3
LB- Cody Barton- 54.3
LB- Boddy Okereke- 49.6
OG- Connor McGovern- 62.2
OT- Trey Pipkins- 54.8
OT- Chuma Edoga- 61.3
WR- Miles Boykin- 62.5
CB- Jamel Dean- 76.6
DE- Oshane Ximines- 63.4
TE- Dawson Knox- 61.4
OT- Bobby Evans- 60.0
LB- Quincy Williams- 51.1
S- Mike Edwards- 77.0
QB- Will Grier- DNP
OT- Yodny Cajuste- DNP

Alexander Mattisons PFF grade..... 80.6

Damien Harris's pff grade is 90.3 and is arguably the much better back.
Nate Davis fills a huge need and would have made the team significantly better last year starting over Dozier. I can't say for sure Mattison makes all that much of a difference over Boone if he was the #2 back.
Jamel Dean was a pretty good CB for TB in their SB run.

I would take those 3 over Mattison and whatever garbage the Vikings drafted with the picks they traded down for in a heartbeat, but who is to say the Vikings would have drafted one of those guys and not Mattison anyway if they had stood pat?

So opportunities to draft better if they had kept the pick, but not necessarily better results if they had.