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The top first-round worthy cornerbacks are that way because they have the measureables and are scheme diverse, meaning they can play zone or man. So, Jeffrey Okudah, C.J. Henderson, Kristian Fulton, and Jeff Gladney all work well in a Cover-3 scheme.

Beyond the top ranked CBs, Cameron Dantzler, Trevon Diggs, and Damon Arnette are both good in this scheme - Arnette, like Okudah, is from Ohio State which plays a lot of Cover-3.

It’s been a really good offseason. You know we’ve had some coaching staff changes, and that’s been going really well, and then scheme-wise we’ve been going through everything with a fine-tooth comb, trying to evaluate every little thing that we’re doing, things that we can improve, things we’re doing terminology-wise, all the different areas... we’ve had some of the best meetings we’ve had in eight years probably, dissecting everything that we do, going through it, like I said before, with a fine tooth comb. I’ve been really impressed with the coaches that are in there, but also the offenses have changed so much in the last four or five years, it’s time that we need to do some things differently, and change, and adapt... the number one thing we wanna be doing on defense is we wanna play fast, we wanna play physical, and we don’t wanna be thinking. The offenses have been getting us to think lately- an adjust here, an adjust there, do this and do that, and you know some of these things we’ve talked about, and it’s just too hard to implement during the season. Some of it is big change, some of it is minor tweaks.

CharVike wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:23 am IMO you need to be aggressive on defense. That means getting after the QB. It seems to happen every year. The best defenses get pressure on the QB. Last year the Bucs were the measuring stick and made the best QBs in the game look less than average through out the playoffs and Super Bowl. Zimmer has never put that type of D on the field. The year we had a chance his D folded like a cheap suite and were destroyed by a stiff backup QB in the champ game. He didn't get after that bum. It was there on a silver platter. Mahomes looked like another guy against the Bucs and have invested heavy into their OL to try and fix it. He's the best young mobile QB in the NFL. The Bucs got after him and he folded. They all do. Rodgers hasn't been himself in the last two champ games. It comes down to pressure. With that I don't care what the coverage is. It will work. Without pressure no coverage scheme will work. That's why we need another DE that brings the heat big time. Bottom line bring the pressure every QB struggles with that. We see it every year.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:17 pm

CharVike wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:23 am IMO you need to be aggressive on defense. That means getting after the QB. It seems to happen every year. The best defenses get pressure on the QB. Last year the Bucs were the measuring stick and made the best QBs in the game look less than average through out the playoffs and Super Bowl. Zimmer has never put that type of D on the field. The year we had a chance his D folded like a cheap suite and were destroyed by a stiff backup QB in the champ game. He didn't get after that bum. It was there on a silver platter. Mahomes looked like another guy against the Bucs and have invested heavy into their OL to try and fix it. He's the best young mobile QB in the NFL. The Bucs got after him and he folded. They all do. Rodgers hasn't been himself in the last two champ games. It comes down to pressure. With that I don't care what the coverage is. It will work. Without pressure no coverage scheme will work. That's why we need another DE that brings the heat big time. Bottom line bring the pressure every QB struggles with that. We see it every year.

Dude, where do you get this stuff?

The Minnesota Vikings
2015 — 5th in the NFL in total defense, 8th in sacks
2016 — 6th in the NFL in total defense, 5th in in sacks
2017 — First in the NFL in total defense
2018 — 9th in the NFL in total defense, 3rd in sacks
2019 — 5th in the NFL in total defense, 6th in sacks

That's 5 straight years in the Top 10 in total defense, twice in the top 5. Yes, we got our butts handed to us in the 2017 NFC Championship Game. But that doesn't mean it was a bad defense. It meant they had a very, very bad day.

The Chiefs got hammered in the Super Bowl because a) Tampa Bay has a great front 4, and b) the Chiefs were trotting out one of the worst offensive lines in the history of the Super Bowl, largely due to injury. But don't tell me the Vikings haven't been able to pressure the QB under Zimmer. I was at the game in 2018 against the Lions when the Vikings sacked Matthew Stafford 10 times.

Just because our pass rush sucked last year doesn't mean it's always sucked. And if Hunter returns, I have a feeling it'll be pretty good again in 2021.

As for the original post ...

Nothing would surprise me this year when it comes to the Vikings' defense. It was SO BAD last year near the end of the season that Mike Zimmer had to be questioning EVERYTHING about his defense, including his own scheme. Honestly, I think that's a good thing. Maybe Zimmer had gotten complacent. Maybe he now understands that they need a new wrinkle or two. If the past is any indication, he's certainly capable of drawing up some new ideas.

Also, I think the addition of Patrick Peterson makes it pretty clear that Zimmer is going to play a lot of zone. If the Vikings blitz, my guess is that he leaves Dantzler to cover someone man-on-man, rather than Peterson. Some of that will be dictated on the opponents' personnel. If there's not a burner on the field, Peterson might shadow him.

CharVike wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:36 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:17 pm
Dude, where do you get this stuff?

The Minnesota Vikings
2015 — 5th in the NFL in total defense, 8th in sacks
2016 — 6th in the NFL in total defense, 5th in in sacks
2017 — First in the NFL in total defense
2018 — 9th in the NFL in total defense, 3rd in sacks
2019 — 5th in the NFL in total defense, 6th in sacks

That's 5 straight years in the Top 10 in total defense, twice in the top 5. Yes, we got our butts handed to us in the 2017 NFC Championship Game. But that doesn't mean it was a bad defense. It meant they had a very, very bad day.

The Chiefs got hammered in the Super Bowl because a) Tampa Bay has a great front 4, and b) the Chiefs were trotting out one of the worst offensive lines in the history of the Super Bowl, largely due to injury. But don't tell me the Vikings haven't been able to pressure the QB under Zimmer. I was at the game in 2018 against the Lions when the Vikings sacked Matthew Stafford 10 times.

Just because our pass rush sucked last year doesn't mean it's always sucked. And if Hunter returns, I have a feeling it'll be pretty good again in 2021.

As for the original post ...

Nothing would surprise me this year when it comes to the Vikings' defense. It was SO BAD last year near the end of the season that Mike Zimmer had to be questioning EVERYTHING about his defense, including his own scheme. Honestly, I think that's a good thing. Maybe Zimmer had gotten complacent. Maybe he now understands that they need a new wrinkle or two. If the past is any indication, he's certainly capable of drawing up some new ideas.

Also, I think the addition of Patrick Peterson makes it pretty clear that Zimmer is going to play a lot of zone. If the Vikings blitz, my guess is that he leaves Dantzler to cover someone man-on-man, rather than Peterson. Some of that will be dictated on the opponents' personnel. If there's not a burner on the field, Peterson might shadow him.

I compared us to the Bucs run through the Super Bowl. Zimm's D never played like that when it was a win or go home deal. It's there in black and white. 2017 our No 1 D shut out the Packers. No Rodgers helped with that and I've said before Zim actually done ok against Rodgers. The Buc D handle the top gun QBs on the road. That's playing D. Picking off Brees and shutting his team out in the 4th quarter was quality D. Our No 1 D in 2017 allowed the Saints to put up 17 points in the 4th quarter. You don't see the difference? 17 points is getting drilled. The Buc D shut them out in quarter 4 and sealed the deal. Then Zims No 1 D let Foles do whatever he wanted to. He's a bum. That's not playing top level D in a win or go home deal. That's a fold in my book. That really started the week before and didn't end. His D did the same against the 49ers in 2019. We hit the road and there O did what ever they wanted to do. It was a cake walk. You go out there and play D. Keep us in the game. Don't get rolled over. That's the difference in what we did versus the Bucs D. The 49ers and Rams did the same stuff. There D stepped up. If they didn't no Super Bowl. This year the D will depend on if Hunter plays again. Zim called it a tweak. Who knows what the deal is. If he's back I'll be shocked. Maybe there's a guy on the roster to take his place. Zim has proven he can develop or sign quality DL players. Coaches are a creature of habit. They will do what has worked for them in the past. Peterson is his current Newman. Dantzler that's still up in the air. I give the kid credit. He had some nice games. He also had some bad games. Depends on what he went up against. That's typical of a rookie CB. Alexander is what he is. A decent slot cover guy.

S197 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:40 pm I feel like we hear this every off-season. Remember when Barr was practicing pass rush moves with the DEs and everyone was speculating on this major new role for him? Or how Iloka was going to be this totally innovative new role due to his unique size/attributes?

I'm sure they'll come up with a few new wrinkles but Zimmer has shown he's stubborn and old school. Did last year's performance finally shock him into trying to be innovative? Maybe, but if I'm a betting man, my money is on the old dog doesn't learn any new tricks.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:27 am

CharVike wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:36 am
I compared us to the Bucs run through the Super Bowl. Zimm's D never played like that when it was a win or go home deal. It's there in black and white. 2017 our No 1 D shut out the Packers. No Rodgers helped with that and I've said before Zim actually done ok against Rodgers. The Buc D handle the top gun QBs on the road. That's playing D. Picking off Brees and shutting his team out in the 4th quarter was quality D. Our No 1 D in 2017 allowed the Saints to put up 17 points in the 4th quarter. You don't see the difference? 17 points is getting drilled. The Buc D shut them out in quarter 4 and sealed the deal. Then Zims No 1 D let Foles do whatever he wanted to. He's a bum. That's not playing top level D in a win or go home deal. That's a fold in my book. That really started the week before and didn't end. His D did the same against the 49ers in 2019. We hit the road and there O did what ever they wanted to do. It was a cake walk. You go out there and play D. Keep us in the game. Don't get rolled over. That's the difference in what we did versus the Bucs D. The 49ers and Rams did the same stuff. There D stepped up. If they didn't no Super Bowl. This year the D will depend on if Hunter plays again. Zim called it a tweak. Who knows what the deal is. If he's back I'll be shocked. Maybe there's a guy on the roster to take his place. Zim has proven he can develop or sign quality DL players. Coaches are a creature of habit. They will do what has worked for them in the past. Peterson is his current Newman. Dantzler that's still up in the air. I give the kid credit. He had some nice games. He also had some bad games. Depends on what he went up against. That's typical of a rookie CB. Alexander is what he is. A decent slot cover guy.

IT'S ONE GAME!

And the Bucs' defense didn't do that against the 2017 version of Drew Brees. They did it against the old man Drew Brees, who had nothing left in the tank and retired shortly thereafter. They did it against a team with Michael Thomas, the $100 million receiver, catching ZERO passes. Heck, even this year, we didn't get blown out by New Orleans because of Drew Brees. We got blown out because we couldn't stop Alvin Kamara. Drew Brees just wasn't very good in 2020. His team was.

Look, I'm not saying that Zimmer's defenses have been generational. I'm not claiming they didn't play their worst in big moments. But you are so extreme. The Bucs won the Super Bowl, so THAT is a great defense. If a guy isn't a Hall of Famer, he's a bum. I mean, come on man. There are shades of gray here.

You can't use last year as the measuring stick for defense under Mike Zimmer. You just can't. The Vikings lost Hunter, Pierce and Barr before the season was 4 weeks old. They lost Kendricks for the last 5, just when they had managed to climb back into the playoff picture. They lost all their starting corners from 2019 and sent rookies and journeymen out there. Anthony Harris played like a guy who'd just gotten a $14 million windfall. Yet they still finished 20th in DVOA, and the only reason they finished that low was because of the last three games, when they gave up almost 1,400 yards and 120 points. But you know, the middle of the season, they were decent. Not great, maybe not even that good, but decent. I consider that sort of an achievement, considering they used 8 different corners and 4 different safeties during the first half of the season, and started guys like Troy Dye, Hardy Nickerson, Todd Davis and Chris Jones near the end of the season. What did you expect? Dominance?

Sure, it was frustrating to watch. But it's not indicative of the defense Minnesota has fielded over the past 5-6 years. Go back to 2015 and 2016, when the offense was flat-out terrible, yet the team still hung in there and won a division title. That was because of the defense. Or 2017, when the defense flat-out dominated until the NFC Championship Game. You're remembering what you want to remember.

I don't know what 2021 will bring. No idea. Maybe Patrick Peterson is washed up. Or maybe he was used incorrectly in Arizona and will have a resurgence with the Vikings. Maybe Dalvin Tomlinson and Michael Pierce are too much alike. Or maybe they dominate the run game AND get pressure up the middle on the quarterback. Maybe Danielle Hunter never plays another down, or maybe he gets 15 sacks. Maybe Jeff Gladney ends up in prison. There's no way of knowing. But I do know this. When Mike Zimmer has had any kind of talent on defense, they've always played well. He should have some talent this year. And if the Vikings can shore up the offensive line, then they can put up points. That means they should challenge in every game they play.

The jury is out. Some experts think Zimmer and Spielman are going about this the wrong way, that the signings of Peterson and Tomlinson are going to be busts. Other experts think the Vikings can challenge for the division. Bottom line: It's a bit more nuanced than "they're bums because they're not Tampa Bay."

VikingTom wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:13 am Interesting discussion. With the exception of last year the Vikings have fielded some good defenses. While at the same time having some frustrating moments on defense. Much of which I attribute to in game coaching decisions as opposed to lack of execution by the players.

Fast forward to this year. The Vikings have mostly restocked their defense.

Gladney assaulting his GF will mean a suspension for him, just a matter of how long. Betting he will miss 8 games minimum. That is assuming the Vikings do not simply release him. That also means CB will be on the shopping list this draft. I do believe the Vikings would like to use a 4-2-5 defense as their base. Having plugged the middle of the D line in a big way sets them up for being able to stop the run while keeping an extra DB on the field. If a top CB falls Viking will take them in the 1st round. Beyond that there should be some good value CBs available in the 3rd round. If the top OTs are off the board, in a Viking draft with the stars properly aligned they would be able to trade down, get their rush DE plus a 2nd round pick. Getting a rush DE and a CB in the 1st three rounds should nicely set up the defense for a return to prominence.

Vikings will hopefully have the draft align in a manner that allows them to secure a 2nd round pick. 4 picks in three rounds should allow them to also find a quality OL. Still leaving the potential to find quality in the 4th round also. (Guessing that to secure an extra 2nd round pick Vikings will trade back in the 1st, and need to give up one of their 4th round picks)

Being a bit optimistic, but given the acquisitions in FA I feel the Vikings are in a good position to plug the remaining holes and add quality depth in the draft.

Maelstrom88 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:06 pm If they were to draft Parsons or JOK out of Notre Dame I'd like to see a Bucs type front and scheme. They pretty much play a 3-3 with Suh Vea and JPP always rushing while Shaq, White, and David blitz sometimes but can also drop. I'd have Pierce, Tomlinson and Hunter as my always rush guys with Barr at 50/50 and Kendricks/ the rookie dropping more often than not.